[HankMoody]

Maybe you guys remember it, or maybe you don't, but I wrote about how a few years ago I developed Oneitis for a chick. In one instance, we were on vacation somewhere nice, which, of course, I paid for. She starts openly flirting with a good looking guy while we're sitting outside at a coffee shop next to a gym. This goes on for about a half hour, as I'm sipping my coffee, pretending to be busy with my phone, and hoping it will end. At the end of their conversation she gives him her number. Right in front of me.

Like a total chump, I just stand there watching without saying anything, smiling like this is totally cool and normal, though on the inside I am seething with rage, doubt, and jealousy. When we get into the car, I decide to say something:

"Uh, hey, I don't mean to be weird, but did you just give that guy your number?"
"Oh Hank, stop acting so jealous. That's not very attractive. I'm pretty sure he's gay. You didn't pick up on that?"
"What makes you think so? He didn't seem gay to me. Actually, I think he was trying to hit on you."
"A guy who is that hot has good reason to be single! We were just talking about fitness stuff. He's a personal trainer and I could use a good one. He said he vacations a lot where I live, so if he's in town we should get a workout in. That's all."
"Ah, I see. Sorry. I'm glad you're meeting lots of cool people this week!"

And you guys can guess how this one ended...

Fast forward a few years. My game is solid, and red pill swallowed. I'm seeing a chick who is a legitimate 8 - 8.5, depending on your taste in women (tiny and petite - like 5'0, 90lbs). I get her back to my house, we bang, and wake up in the morning. Sex was fantastic. This was the third time we had hung out. I'm feeling like the Yoda of game...

"Hank... you should cook me brunch. You're such a good cook!"
"Nah, I'm too spent to cook. Let's just go somewhere."

We go out to a place near my house. We're seated outside, but the bar is inside. The night before we'd done something fancy, so she's there in a casual bar wearing a hot dress. You know, slit right up the middle, cleavage, full back open and barely an ounce of fat. Heads are turning. I ask her:

"Woman, what are you drinking?"
"Um... how about a mimosa?"

I go to the bar, order drinks, and walk back to our spot. As I get there, two good looking dudes are chatting up my girl. They have heavy Australian accents and their game is strong. I hand her a drink, and start sipping mine. She barely turns her head while accepting the drink.

She keeps chatting with them, and doesn't bring me into the conversation. At one point she grabs my hand for a second, but this goes on. I'm visibly displeased, and sort of drifting into my phone. I check Facebook, Twitter, and then refresh Return of Kings. First it goes on for 5 minutes. Then 10. Then 15. Finally I walk inside to see if she'll notice. Another 10 minutes goes by and nothing. She's still having the time of her life. My mind races back to the time my Oneitis gave her number to the personal trainer right in front of me. I'm that chump again. Maybe nothing has changed.

From inside the bar I actually text MikeCF something along the lines of "Is this fucked up?" and his response is basically "Very. You're the prize. Act like it."

Practically, I'm not really sure what to do here. Do I approach these guys and show them how "alpha" I am? Do I interject in the conversation, and outgame them? Maybe start a fight? Once feeling like the Yoda of game, now I'm feeling like Jar Jar Binks.

Nah, she's not worth any of that.

Without saying anything, I hop into my car and leave. I text a female friend of mine, who says we should take a trip to the mall and hit up the skateboard park. Done. About twenty minutes later I get a text from new girl:

"Hank, where are you?"
"groceries, mall"
"What?"
"mall w ashley"
"Wait, what? You left?"
"u seemed busy"
"You just abandoned me? Like that? Without saying anything? How I am going to get home?"
[ten minutes later] "uber"
"You can't just abandon me like that, Hank! This is humiliating! This is so fucked up!"
"skateboarding. ttyl"

Naturally you'd think she'd hate me and we'd never chat again, right? Maybe get a "ride" from the Australian guys? Later that night:

"Hank, are you mad because I was talking to those guys?"
[no response]
"Hank, please talk to me. I'm pretty sure they were gay!"
[no response]
"Hank, can you please talk to me? Can I come over?"
"busy. maybe in an hour or two. playing vids"
"I'm so sorry I acted like that. It's just I'm a very social person, and need to talk to people. I didn't realize I was ignoring you. I didn't meant to ignore you."
"oh"
"I'll be over in an hour. Is that okay?"

Then she came over and we banged a lot. I told her if she ever pulled a stunt like that again, it would be the last time.

Never had an incident since then. Still banging her to this day.

[BadgerHut]

That is some A game. Most guys, including red-pill/game-aware guys, wouldn't be patient enough to pull that many moves to get the frame turned around.

[Anabasis to Desta]

I like your style Moody.

An important lesson in frame holding I've learnt lately is to quit trying to meet people half way. If it doesn't suit you ... walk out.

Was chatting up this cute Mexican barista few days back and when i asked for her number she gives me the first six digits and says " I'll give you the last four digits if you impress me". Didn't say a word and just walked out. She followed me and tried to give me her number but i couldn't be bothered man.

Life's too precious to be disrespected like that.

Same goes when dealing with guys you don't click with. No need to expend vital energy trying to connect with some fat office drone you have nothing in common with. Fuck "networking". It's also worth noting that when you stop trying to meet people halfway, they'll try to meet you 90% of the way. At that point you can decide whether moving that 10% is worth it or not.

Keep 'dem quality threads coming.

[262]

I love the female hamstering in both examples.

"I'm pretty sure they're gay!"

Right.

Because gay guys have an incentive to chat up random straight women. Ok.

[General Mayhem]

From Heartiste: "The more women you reject, the more women will sense your radiating power to inflict pain and loss and subsequently want you. Buttress your inner game by being choosy, and rejecting freely."

I love the walkout. It's almost guaranteed to get the chick scrambling to win back your favor.

I've used it a couple times in my LTR when it was warranted. Even if I was in the wrong I could walk out and eventually she would be blaming herself and begging me to come back.

You can also do a reverse walkout if your chick is acting up. Tell her to leave. I did this to my chick once and she returned with a bouquet of flowers for me.

[Thatdude]

Real shit, brother. I had a something slightly similar happen this weekend. I was out with my girl and went up to the bar to get her and I a drink. She's a solid cutie. As I'm ordering I look back and notice a guy goes up to her and opens her and she begins talking to him. I doubt it lasted more than 4-5 minutes but I felt disrespected. As soon as he opened her or shortly thereafter, in my opinion, she should have calmly told him she was with me and shut that shit the fuck down. She's not an idiot. If a guy walks up to a woman in a bar/club it's obvious why, and they know that much better than we do. I went back and asked her what he said, she said something to the effect of he asked where she was from, her name, etc. (what's your name, what's your sign) and then he asked her if she was with someone, which she then replied she was with me. Get the fuck out of here. What would you have done had he not asked you and why even engage the conversation that far? Am I being jealous/overreacting here? I'm sure she'll get hit on when I'm not there, nothing I can do about that. But engaging in a conversation when I'm 15 feet away? Save that shit in my opinion.

[262]

^^^
Hate to say this, but it sounds like your chick might have a foot out the door (more than usual, anyway). You may already know or feel this, and you may already know the solution, but for our lurkers out there:

I believe Standard Game applies: increase alpha behaviors (ie aloof asshole) and decrease beta behaviors (providing).

She may still walk, but she's just one chick.

[Thatdude]

(01-04-2016 08:35 AM)262 Wrote:  

^^^
Hate to say this, but it sounds like your chick might have a foot out the door (more than usual, anyway). You may already know or feel this, and you may already know the solution, but for our lurkers out there:

I believe Standard Game applies: increase alpha behaviors (ie aloof asshole) and decrease beta behaviors (providing).

She may still walk, but she's just one chick.

I appreciate that, man. I love this forum for this exact reason...keeping each other in line. But damn, think it's that bad? I didn't want to read too much into and was going to check her on it again later this week. To provide some additional context I asked her why engage the convo that far and she said "I'm too nice and don't want to be rude." Sounds like I need to watch my back a bit.

[HankMoody]

(01-04-2016 08:51 AM)Thatdude Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 08:35 AM)262 Wrote:  

^^^
Hate to say this, but it sounds like your chick might have a foot out the door (more than usual, anyway). You may already know or feel this, and you may already know the solution, but for our lurkers out there:

I believe Standard Game applies: increase alpha behaviors (ie aloof asshole) and decrease beta behaviors (providing).

She may still walk, but she's just one chick.

I appreciate that, man. I love this forum for this exact reason...keeping each other in line. But damn, think it's that bad? I didn't want to read too much into and was going to check her on it again later this week. To provide some additional context I asked her why engage the convo that far and she said "I'm too nice and don't want to be rude." Sounds like I need to watch my back a bit.

Put it this way, the chick I wrote about in this thread would never try that shit now, because she knows I'd be gone in two seconds and she'd probably never hear from me again. Part of me thinks it was a shit test to see how I would react.

You've gotta call that behavior out and let her know you won't tolerate it. She has to know you will walk at any minute and not think twice about it.

Frame is established in the beginning and then must be maintained. How much frame you put down in the beginning generally establishes how much maintenance goes in.

I worry very little about this one, because she's doing things like cleaning my house, doing dishes, avoids flirting with other guys, giving unsolicited blowjobs, puts her phone away when I'm around, doesn't get secretive about texting, and isn't weird about turning her phone upside down when I'm in the room. You know when they're hooked.

[Ray Carlton]

Hank, you really drop some valuable knowledge lately. First the "A Tale of a "Good Date"" thread as well as the "On Money and Game" thread.

I agree with you.

Just leaving her was the right thing to do.

What would a Beta have done? He would have walked up to the group and tried to befriend them. Totally ridiculous, considering that the two guys were hitting on his girl.

What would a pseudo alpha do? He would walk up to the group and try to show how alpha he is.

What would a man with option do? He would drive a way. There is zero reason to fight for such a girl.

I am sure she learnt her lesson.

Ray

[Rocha]

The easiest thing to do was after bringing the drinks, ask her if she knew them, then after her response, give them a firm shake of hands and a serious face, lay your arm around her, or if sitting side by side, lay your hand in the inside of her leg. Highly unlikely the dudes would still scavenge. And in no way this would start a fight.

[Thatdude]

(01-04-2016 09:16 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 08:51 AM)Thatdude Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 08:35 AM)262 Wrote:  

^^^
Hate to say this, but it sounds like your chick might have a foot out the door (more than usual, anyway). You may already know or feel this, and you may already know the solution, but for our lurkers out there:

I believe Standard Game applies: increase alpha behaviors (ie aloof asshole) and decrease beta behaviors (providing).

She may still walk, but she's just one chick.

I appreciate that, man. I love this forum for this exact reason...keeping each other in line. But damn, think it's that bad? I didn't want to read too much into and was going to check her on it again later this week. To provide some additional context I asked her why engage the convo that far and she said "I'm too nice and don't want to be rude." Sounds like I need to watch my back a bit.

Put it this way, the chick I wrote about in this thread would never try that shit now, because she knows I'd be gone in two seconds and she'd probably never hear from me again. Part of me thinks it was a shit test to see how I would react.

You've gotta call that behavior out and let her know you won't tolerate it. She has to know you will walk at any minute and not think twice about it.

Frame is established in the beginning and then must be maintained. How much frame you put down in the beginning generally establishes how much maintenance goes in.

I worry very little about this one, because she's doing things like cleaning my house, doing dishes, avoids flirting with other guys, giving unsolicited blowjobs, puts her phone away when I'm around, doesn't get secretive about texting, and isn't weird about turning her phone upside down when I'm in the room. You know when they're hooked.

That's the thing man. On one hand she does very similar things to what your chick does, she cooked me dinner the night beforehand, washes my clothes, takes care of my shit, alternates buying drinks when we go out, etc. But you are 110% right in checking this bullshit behavior, and if it continues don't hesitate to cut the cord.

[HankMoody]

(01-04-2016 09:28 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

The easiest thing to do was after bringing the drinks, ask her if she knew them, then after her response, give them a firm shake of hands and a serious face, lay your arm around her, or if sitting side by side, lay your hand in the inside of her leg. Highly unlikely the dudes would still scavenge. And in no way this would start a fight.

Yes, that would have been the easiest thing to do. And it probably would have fixed the problem.

In the short term.

However, it wouldn't have fixed the real issue - that she was flirting with other men right in front of me. I'm not going to waste my time with a girl who I have to constantly worry about, or fend off other men from. There are too many available women out there, and the competition is a joke. She has to understand that.

It proved more effective to do something bold and audacious, because now she doesn't pull that kind of crap. That moment set the tone of our entire relationship.

[straightarrow]

Years ago I met a really hot devious looking 30 year old that looked to have her shit together. Well we meet and she came after me like a junkie for a fix.
Our first official out in public shindig was a reception for a iranian chick who married a dude from money and he was in the FBI academy. We get a hotel room and have sex before the party. Now she bought me a shirt and tie she wanted me to wear. We go and its like at a country club stuffed with boring people and FBI agents.
Well my girl totally disses me and I am left blowin in the wind all night. She even danced with another guy instead of me. Now im fuming inside but kept my cool because wtf I can get another one any day if I so choose.
Now if I would have driven I would have bolted at about the one hour mark. I hung tough and we get back to the room and she is tired and freezes me out. Next morning she is acting strange and has to bolt early???? Now looking back I should of dissed her because that was her norm personality wise. Any room she walked into she owend and she knew it. I was with her for 5 years and she was the same way the entire time. That relationship broke me mentally and $$$ and I changed my perspective on women after that.
Fast forward to now.....A chick I met and liked pulled some shady shit on me and I caught her and was like wtf in my mind. One day she said something to me and that was enough and I pulled her card. I told her what I knew and said I could care less if I ever spoke or saw her again and I meant it. I think she did care for me at that point but I told her under no uncertain terms I will not tolerate this ever again. She knew from that minute on that she was replaceable if she did not act how I wanted.

[coverdoc]

Call me a little sensitive, but my actions would fall along the line of Anabasis. I'm not about giving second chances, as I feel the first offense is a sign she has no respect for me.

Example:

I had one of my top notch chicas from Monterrey fly in to come see me at the beginning of the summer. She's always feisty and acts like a princess because she is use to guys doing whatever for her. We head out to this night club and i'm just relaxing in the corner when this tall indian dude comes over and spits game to her right in front of me. I watch for two minutes and told myself if it continued longer than that I would be done with this girl through and through. Well it did. I calmly walked downstairs and got myself a celebratory beer for cutting off another time wasted bitch. She comes down a few minutes later and ask if i'm mad and swears she said "I'm with him." I tell her it's okay and we go back upstairs.

I play it cool until her flight the day at which time I block her on all forms of contact. She proceeds to contact my friends and family crying, asking where I am and why i'm not talking to her. Leaving me voicemail after voicemail, but I'm was done. I feel that re-establishing frame with these types of girls is worthless.

-CD

[Rocha]

(01-04-2016 09:34 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 09:28 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

The easiest thing to do was after bringing the drinks, ask her if she knew them, then after her response, give them a firm shake of hands and a serious face, lay your arm around her, or if sitting side by side, lay your hand in the inside of her leg. Highly unlikely the dudes would still scavenge. And in no way this would start a fight.

Yes, that would have been the easiest thing to do. And it probably would have fixed the problem.

In the short term.

However, it wouldn't have fixed the real issue - that she was flirting with other men right in front of me. I'm not going to waste my time with a girl who I have to constantly worry about, or fend off other men from. There are too many available women out there, and the competition is a joke. She has to understand that.

It proved more effective to do something bold and audacious, because now she doesn't pull that kind of crap. That moment set the tone of our entire relationship.

I disagree on you here. There are two moments here. The present one and the future one. They are not undissociable from each other, and one should be dealt at a time. Leaving her there without further words and standing the guys hitting on her while you checked your cellphone is something that no red blooded man does. Interfering does not mean that you do not know that she is a slut who can not behave publicly with her man besides. But at least you save your skin and confidence. I think what you did actually shows lack of confidence. Also it is not clear what kind lf relationship do you have. Since you say you still bang her, it is not implicit if you are exclusive to her, that is the most important thing that is lacking in the story.

[robreke]

(01-04-2016 12:50 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Maybe you guys remember it, or maybe you don't, but I wrote about how a few years ago I developed Oneitis for a chick. In one instance, we were on vacation somewhere nice, which, of course, I paid for. She starts openly flirting with a good looking guy while we're sitting outside at a coffee shop next to a gym. This goes on for about a half hour, as I'm sipping my coffee, pretending to be busy with my phone, and hoping it will end. At the end of their conversation she gives him her number. Right in front of me.

Like a total chump, I just stand there watching without saying anything, smiling like this is totally cool and normal, though on the inside I am seething with rage, doubt, and jealousy. When we get into the car, I decide to say something:

"Uh, hey, I don't mean to be weird, but did you just give that guy your number?"
"Oh Hank, stop acting so jealous. That's not very attractive. I'm pretty sure he's gay. You didn't pick up on that?"
"What makes you think so? He didn't seem gay to me. Actually, I think he was trying to hit on you."
"A guy who is that hot has good reason to be single! We were just talking about fitness stuff. He's a personal trainer and I could use a good one. He said he vacations a lot where I live, so if he's in town we should get a workout in. That's all."
"Ah, I see. Sorry. I'm glad you're meeting lots of cool people this week!"

And you guys can guess how this one ended...

Fast forward a few years. My game is solid, and red pill swallowed. I'm seeing a chick who is a legitimate 8 - 8.5, depending on your taste in women (tiny and petite - like 5'0, 90lbs). I get her back to my house, we bang, and wake up in the morning. Sex was fantastic. This was the third time we had hung out. I'm feeling like the Yoda of game...

"Hank... you should cook me brunch. You're such a good cook!"
"Nah, I'm too spent to cook. Let's just go somewhere."

We go out to a place near my house. We're seated outside, but the bar is inside. The night before we'd done something fancy, so she's there in a casual bar wearing a hot dress. You know, slit right up the middle, cleavage, full back open and barely an ounce of fat. Heads are turning. I ask her:

"Woman, what are you drinking?"
"Um... how about a mimosa?"

I go to the bar, order drinks, and walk back to our spot. As I get there, two good looking dudes are chatting up my girl. They have heavy Australian accents and their game is strong. I hand her a drink, and start sipping mine. She barely turns her head while accepting the drink.

She keeps chatting with them, and doesn't bring me into the conversation. At one point she grabs my hand for a second, but this goes on. I'm visibly displeased, and sort of drifting into my phone. I check Facebook, Twitter, and then refresh Return of Kings. First it goes on for 5 minutes. Then 10. Then 15. Finally I walk inside to see if she'll notice. Another 10 minutes goes by and nothing. She's still having the time of her life. My mind races back to the time my Oneitis gave her number to the personal trainer right in front of me. I'm that chump again. Maybe nothing has changed.

From inside the bar I actually text MikeCF something along the lines of "Is this fucked up?" and his response is basically "Very. You're the prize. Act like it."

Practically, I'm not really sure what to do here. Do I approach these guys and show them how "alpha" I am? Do I interject in the conversation, and outgame them? Maybe start a fight? Once feeling like the Yoda of game, now I'm feeling like Jar Jar Binks.

Nah, she's not worth any of that.

Without saying anything, I hop into my car and leave. I text a female friend of mine, who says we should take a trip to the mall and hit up the skateboard park. Done. About twenty minutes later I get a text from new girl:

"Hank, where are you?"
"groceries, mall"
"What?"
"mall w ashley"
"Wait, what? You left?"
"u seemed busy"
"You just abandoned me? Like that? Without saying anything? How I am going to get home?"
[ten minutes later] "uber"
"You can't just abandon me like that, Hank! This is humiliating! This is so fucked up!"
"skateboarding. ttyl"

Naturally you'd think she'd hate me and we'd never chat again, right? Maybe get a "ride" from the Australian guys? Later that night:

"Hank, are you mad because I was talking to those guys?"
[no response]
"Hank, please talk to me. I'm pretty sure they were gay!"
[no response]
"Hank, can you please talk to me? Can I come over?"
"busy. maybe in an hour or two. playing vids"
"I'm so sorry I acted like that. It's just I'm a very social person, and need to talk to people. I didn't realize I was ignoring you. I didn't meant to ignore you."
"oh"
"I'll be over in an hour. Is that okay?"

Then she came over and we banged a lot. I told her if she ever pulled a stunt like that again, it would be the last time.

Never had an incident since then. Still banging her to this day.

This is the quintessential example of how a man with options can have a no fucks given attitude and behavior.

Having plates and options are so crucial to good, alpha game.

Women smell it and react in kind as in your story. Well done.

[WestIndianArchie]

If you view what Anabasis did in the context of "not rewarding poor behavior", then that makes sense.

I read that story as where the alpha conflicts with the player, and then throws out the pussy with the bath water.

She was trying to flirt. It's not clear about the conversation content or tone before hand.

He kept "frame" and walked.

But

She broke protocol and character to leave her job and give him her number. He got what any man would want, a pretty girl running after him.

He rejects her a second time, but why?

She gave into him after he went nuclear. She may have been compliant enough, or at least primed for breaking. But he can't forgive.

So for things to work, a chick has to lay all the way down.

Now in his defense, that is probably who she is. Constant battle even after the bang.

As a young player you have to constantly decide what kind of man do I want to be.

WIA

[Beyond Borders]

(01-04-2016 09:28 AM)Ray Carlton Wrote:  

Hank, you really drop some valuable knowledge lately. First the "A Tale of a "Good Date"" thread as well as the "On Money and Game" thread.

I agree with you.

Just leaving her was the right thing to do.

What would a Beta have done? He would have walked up to the group and tried to befriend them. Totally ridiculous, considering that the two guys were hitting on his girl.

What would a pseudo alpha do? He would walk up to the group and try to show how alpha he is.

What would a man with option do? He would drive a way. There is zero reason to fight for such a girl.

I am sure she learnt her lesson.

Ray

I agree Hank did the right thing - or one of the right things - in this scenario. I've done this very thing in the past. This is a great way to set the frame early in a relationship if a woman is not yet fully on board.

That being said, I don't fully agree with this:

Quote:

What would a Beta have done? He would have walked up to the group and tried to befriend them. Totally ridiculous, considering that the two guys were hitting on his girl.

Certain guys can pull this other method off admirably. I can pull this off.

Generally I would have walked back, sat down, reached over and shook their hands, and taken the conversation out of her hands.

One of my strengths is being able to work a room and women love that about me and are often just coming along for the ride. And one of the easiest ways to neutralize a challenge, whether from a threat of violence or sexual competition, is to take the challenger on assertively and "befriend" them. Not in a supplicating manner, mind you.

Those men might show up trying to steal my date, but the bullshit would stop pretty fast based on our interaction. By being assertive, refusing to flinch, and showing you're a cool guy who has no doubt who is taking her home, you gain respect and they ease off.

Most imporant thing is your demanour. It's not about showing back up and timidly trying to work your way into the conversation - it's about reentering the scene and owning the conversation.

And I don't resent guys for trying - they're just being men. I only resent guys if they continue to try after I've asserted myself and drawn the line.

I will speak up eventually and tell them it's time to back off if they go that route.

Anyhow, this is all assuming the woman isn't constantly putting you in these situations by too eagerly embracing them. If she is, the problem is her; no woman with any class constantly makes you do social gymnastics just to keep her attention.

But at the same time, you can't react to every guy who tries to elbow in for your girl by leaving the premises; the majority of the time you'll be handling it with diplomacy.

Of course, the key to whether or not it comes down to having to do a walkout lies in her behavior, not that of the other guy(s). And as far as that goes, she was dragging it on and not paying attention to her man, so Hank made the right decision. The disrespect was in her hands and she was punished accordingly.

Good story and a great outcome.

[JohnnyAppleSeeds]

Nice story that reinforces women's shady behavior, importance of options and being ready to drop a bitch at any moment.

Reminds me of a cute 22yr old 7-7.5 with a fatty I SNL'd in Joao Pessoa, Brazil. A couple days later we start talking again and then meet up around 5 days after the initial bang for a day at the beach. Even though we're making out, grabbing ass and she played with my hard cock a little she was still doing some dumb shit like trying to withhold kisses at times, taking too many selfies and saying no sex.

I reclined my beach chair and took in the sun ignoring her. I can't remember what the breaking point for me was, maybe a phone call she took or made, but I calmly retrieved my things out of her beach bag, stood up and walked away from her to the street without looking at her or saying a word. She called out to me and the old-timer who gave us the chairs motioned that she was trying to talk to me but I just told him she was boring and left.

1-2 hours later I was fucking a different chick.

[straightarrow]

Appleseed thats classic...lol
My chick was so upset that she called off work and had to call her mom and talk to her. I wonder if her mom told her look missy dont let this one get away cause he has $$. Good looking women almost never get the tide turned on them. After that day I never felt the same for her again and later wished I walked day of argument.

[BadgerHut]

Loss aversion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion) is one of the strongest tactical emotions that can change people's behavior. We tend to prefer avoiding losses to acquiring gains. Somehow this seems especially strong with women, thus the "takeaway" has been a prime game move since the beginning of time. Girls invented "the silent treatment" anyway so who are they to say we shouldn't use it ourselves.

I've seen a lot of guys who are more concerned with "not making a scene" than standing up for themselves. There's a kernel of wisdom in there in that creating drama will wash your chick in dopamine and train her to do more of the bad behavior. That's why HankMoody's Irish goodbye move is great - it both induces the loss aversion gut-punch and prevents an emotional blowup that will satisfy her need for drama. i've done some botched takeaways in my day where I came off as pouty and vindictive - gotta do it without emotion to show you don't have to give a shit.

Also, women seem have very little perspective for tit-for-tat in dating - it's OK for her to chat up other dudes in front of her man, but it's "humiliating" for him to disappear. Sounds like it's just self-centeredness, everything has to be evaluated from her point of view. So much for being the "empathetic" gender. I think women have a reversed concept of empathy where people are supposed to resonate with her emotions, but she doesn't have to care about anybody else's.

[rudebwoy]

Great post and interesting perspectives.

I wonder what would make these dudes so comfortable to come up and chat with your "gal". Also, for her to even engage the conversation and keep it going is the ultimate sign of disrespect.

Yes, I get that it is a giant shit test.

I wouldn't sit there and play with my phone, I would simply walk away from the get go. I have been fortunate because no girl has tried that move on me.

The ulitimate result would have to be a total blow-off or a freeze out for a week or more.

Respect to the OP. If more guys did these moves the world would be a much better place.

[kaotic]

(01-04-2016 10:28 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 09:34 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 09:28 AM)Rocha Wrote:  

The easiest thing to do was after bringing the drinks, ask her if she knew them, then after her response, give them a firm shake of hands and a serious face, lay your arm around her, or if sitting side by side, lay your hand in the inside of her leg. Highly unlikely the dudes would still scavenge. And in no way this would start a fight.

Yes, that would have been the easiest thing to do. And it probably would have fixed the problem.

In the short term.

However, it wouldn't have fixed the real issue - that she was flirting with other men right in front of me. I'm not going to waste my time with a girl who I have to constantly worry about, or fend off other men from. There are too many available women out there, and the competition is a joke. She has to understand that.

It proved more effective to do something bold and audacious, because now she doesn't pull that kind of crap. That moment set the tone of our entire relationship.

I disagree on you here. There are two moments here. The present one and the future one. They are not undissociable from each other, and one should be dealt at a time. Leaving her there without further words and standing the guys hitting on her while you checked your cellphone is something that no red blooded man does. Interfering does not mean that you do not know that she is a slut who can not behave publicly with her man besides. But at least you save your skin and confidence. I think what you did actually shows lack of confidence. Also it is not clear what kind lf relationship do you have. Since you say you still bang her, it is not implicit if you are exclusive to her, that is the most important thing that is lacking in the story.

Actually no, it doesn't show a lack of confidence, it shows a lack of a giving a single fuck.

It shows a lack of scarcity.

As soon as he walked back up and those dudes were there, he shouldn't of been on his phone, he should of been in the convo. OR if he was inside seeing what was going, see if it lasted a minute or 2 or longer, then bounced.

I don't have fucking time to AMOG some dudes or have some bullshit small conversation with some dudes I don't give a fuck about or a bitch that wants to flirt with other dudes right in front of me.

That bitch downright knows what she's doing, she gets one slap on the wrist, if she fucks up again, she's either nexted, or downgraded to a plate.

I'm not buying in, I'm folding my cards and walking.

[Vienna]

Great post HankMoody.

It showcases a major way to keep frame - both to her, but most importantly to yourself. It's about keeping your dignity. I bet most of the guys here, when they started out getting with girls, have been in a similar situation.

A guy comes up to your girl in a bar and soon makes her giggle. Your girl starts chatting with a dude at a party. In both scenarios she forgets you're there (i.e. doesn't give a shit that she's disrespectful/wants to see what she gets away with).

In the past I've either:
- pretended to check my phone (for 25 minutes)
- chatted up other people (for the sake of appearing to have a good time)
- tried to befriend the guy my girl's been talking to

Those times I always felt like shit, because I ate the shit test the Universe threw at me.

In each instance I just wanted to say fuck it, throw back my drink and vanish. Instead I stood there with a sinking feeling. Anger at her disrespect. But I swallowed my pride and thought "maybe it's just this time", or that she's just a very social and friendly girl. But instinct rarely lies.

Swallowing pride in a situation like that rusts a piece of your spirit. I eventually lost every girl that did something similar, and looking back it's easy to beat yourself up for not trusting your gut in so blatantly obvious situations. For me, there's more retroactive hurt in not standing up for yourself than actually losing the girl, in some cases.

I agree with kaotic that it just isn't worth it to spend hours trying to win the "I don't give a fuck" game with a girl. You could have spent that time reading a classic, working on your business or spending time with people that actually give a real fuck about you.

In the end, it's about you - what are YOU willing to accept? I've done the walk away a few times since I started to stop being a champion pride-swallower; sometimes the girl comes running, and sometimes she doesn't. In those cases, good riddance.