I've got a question about this since I noticed hank didn't respond when his girl asked. Are you ever supposed to directly tell your girl what she did wrong when she asks? Or does it just depend?
A Story on Frame
Hank - how long were you seeing this girl? Being that leaving the bar worked for you, I'm going to assume that it's been a while and that you've already clearly demonstrated your value? Do you think leaving would work with a girl that you've only been dating for a short period of time?
Also, do you think gaming other girls in the bar in front of your girl would have yielded similiar results? What is the difference in your opinion?
Also, do you think gaming other girls in the bar in front of your girl would have yielded similiar results? What is the difference in your opinion?
Quote: (01-04-2016 02:22 PM)rapaz12 Wrote:
I've got a question about this since I noticed hank didn't respond when his girl asked. Are you ever supposed to directly tell your girl what she did wrong when she asks? Or does it just depend?
He did tell her.
In one of the initial exchanges he replied "u seemed busy". She knows exactly what that means, there's no need for anything more.
God'll prolly have me on some real strict shit
No sleeping all day, no getting my dick licked
The Original Emotional Alpha
Quote: (01-04-2016 12:01 PM)BadgerHut Wrote:
Also, women seem have very little perspective for tit-for-tat in dating - it's OK for her to chat up other dudes in front of her man, but it's "humiliating" for him to disappear. Sounds like it's just self-centeredness, everything has to be evaluated from her point of view. So much for being the "empathetic" gender. I think women have a reversed concept of empathy where people are supposed to resonate with her emotions, but she doesn't have to care about anybody else's.
As I recall correctly, Rollo Tomassi over at the Rational Male recently wrote a post about this.
As I understand it and his previous works, he basically asserts that through evolution, self-centered women were selected, since they placed themselves - and by proxy, their children (though not perfectly) - above everything else. But since women are usually physically weaker than men, they can't normally be overtly self-centered like men can, so covert is the name of that game, sometimes to the point that women themselves don't realize it.
So it's not something to get angry about, just something to know.
Quote: (01-04-2016 03:14 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:
Quote: (01-04-2016 02:22 PM)rapaz12 Wrote:
I've got a question about this since I noticed hank didn't respond when his girl asked. Are you ever supposed to directly tell your girl what she did wrong when she asks? Or does it just depend?
He did tell her.
In one of the initial exchanges he replied "u seemed busy". She knows exactly what that means, there's no need for anything more.
That is something a woman would say, and have said to me sometimes. If you have something to say, say it right on the spot. That is keeping frame.
You've got to have solid boundaries or else women will walk all over you, it's kind of like give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Women are constantly shit testing, how much of it they are consciously doing in order to test you and study your reaction, or how much of it is on a more unconscious level I can't say. I do know that they are constantly doing it and constantly sizing you up on some level based on how you react. In more crude and black and white terms there is some alpha/beat dichotomy there, "how alpha is he, or how beta is he."
Fortunately I haven't been in too many situations like Hank, but I remember my BPD ex-girlfriend doing minor shit like this quite often, like being a little overly flirty with the tall handsome waiter at the upscale restaurant, or maybe holding eye contact a little too long, etc. Subtle shit, but definitely noticeable and definitely slightly disrespectful on a certain level, when you are supposed to be in a relationship with someone. Hell even if you're not in a serious relationship, if you're on a date with someone, especially someone that you're intimate with you shouldn't be pulling this shit, it's very disrespectful behavior.
Not too long ago this chick who was a good friend of mine's roommate who I had flirted with and made out with a couple times hit me up to hang out and go out for a drink. I was under the assumption that it would be just us two, but then at the last minute she said that she invited my friend (her roommate) to go as well, which I thought was kind of lame, but he is my friend as well so I didn't object.
Any how the three of us went out and had a drink and then bounced to another bar where the chick saw some guy she knew with a group of his friends. She kept looking over at him and he motioned for her to go over to his table, she said she was just going to go over for a minute to say hi and then come back. Well 15 minutes go by and she's sitting down at the table with those dudes and hasn't come back or so much even looked over at us. I told my buddy "man it's wack enough that she invited you along, but there's no way in hell I'm going to sit here and wait for her while she's off flirting being the center of attention with those dudes."
You got to have strong boundaries and draw lines in the sand, otherwise women will continue to engage in piss poor behavior and act like entitled cunts who have the right to be disrespectful bitches. Ofcourse after me and my friend left, and I'm in the car about to drop him off at his place, she blows up my phone trying to call 3 times in a row, then sending a barrage of texts with "you left", "what happened", "how can you just leave like that", "I only left for a couple minutes I was coming right back", "are you mad", "don't be like that", etc., etc.
Fortunately I haven't been in too many situations like Hank, but I remember my BPD ex-girlfriend doing minor shit like this quite often, like being a little overly flirty with the tall handsome waiter at the upscale restaurant, or maybe holding eye contact a little too long, etc. Subtle shit, but definitely noticeable and definitely slightly disrespectful on a certain level, when you are supposed to be in a relationship with someone. Hell even if you're not in a serious relationship, if you're on a date with someone, especially someone that you're intimate with you shouldn't be pulling this shit, it's very disrespectful behavior.
Not too long ago this chick who was a good friend of mine's roommate who I had flirted with and made out with a couple times hit me up to hang out and go out for a drink. I was under the assumption that it would be just us two, but then at the last minute she said that she invited my friend (her roommate) to go as well, which I thought was kind of lame, but he is my friend as well so I didn't object.
Any how the three of us went out and had a drink and then bounced to another bar where the chick saw some guy she knew with a group of his friends. She kept looking over at him and he motioned for her to go over to his table, she said she was just going to go over for a minute to say hi and then come back. Well 15 minutes go by and she's sitting down at the table with those dudes and hasn't come back or so much even looked over at us. I told my buddy "man it's wack enough that she invited you along, but there's no way in hell I'm going to sit here and wait for her while she's off flirting being the center of attention with those dudes."
You got to have strong boundaries and draw lines in the sand, otherwise women will continue to engage in piss poor behavior and act like entitled cunts who have the right to be disrespectful bitches. Ofcourse after me and my friend left, and I'm in the car about to drop him off at his place, she blows up my phone trying to call 3 times in a row, then sending a barrage of texts with "you left", "what happened", "how can you just leave like that", "I only left for a couple minutes I was coming right back", "are you mad", "don't be like that", etc., etc.
Classic symptom of unclear expectations set. If you had handled it earlier she would have talked to them a bit holding your hand and turned to you.
Leaving the battlefield like that was hit or miss kind of move. One of those epic narrow wins where you cross your fingers and hope for the best. Congrats
Leaving the battlefield like that was hit or miss kind of move. One of those epic narrow wins where you cross your fingers and hope for the best. Congrats
Quote: (01-04-2016 02:22 PM)rapaz12 Wrote:
I've got a question about this since I noticed hank didn't respond when his girl asked. Are you ever supposed to directly tell your girl what she did wrong when she asks? Or does it just depend?
It depends.
1) Lot of guys want to just "be straightforward and explain to her what she did"
2) My go to, "I don't need to explain what you did wrong" (and i'll look offended and disgusted as I say it, then turn my head away, with that "I can't believe this bitch" look on my face). I rarely curse at women, so a "You know exactly what the FUCK you did wrong" carries a lot of weight.
When she focuses on you defining the thing she did, she can wiggle out of it. {Pro Tip - you want to win an argument with most people, a) tie them down to what they're talking about, b) ask them questions about it. Most people don't truly believe what they say they do...is how you explain their inability to defend shit. }
Sometimes you just want the chick to twist in the wind, and use that undefined thing to get more emotional/relationship leverage. This is exactly what women do. Get mad, get silent, don't tell you what you did wrong, make you drag it out of them. And then they gain ground. Because you react to this, she makes you pay for your one mistake by looking at your other behavior. You'd swear they all had a class on it (when they separated us in the 3rd grade for the birds and bees speech).
If you don't care about the longevity of the relationship, either is fine.
1) Just telling her the truth isn't teaching.
2) Dark triad/female gives you her same results - you have to be on her and stay nagging.
But assuming you want the LTR to last, you really need to teach her how to think. And this is what the kids say, "A teachable moment".
Most guys don't know how to do this, I know I didn't. Years later I'd see traces of the way I process things in girls that I banged, and noticed that women all seem to have been taught implicitly or explicitly by the guys they fucked for long periods of time.
It starts way before these incidents unfold, but you can't think of every situation before hand.
1) She crawls back
2) You have to handle her last line of defenses and there will be a lot of misdirection and trying to get you off topic.
- That's just how I am (some guys reply, you need to change. I say, I'm not going to ask you to change, that would be unfair, this is who you are, and I'm just going to leave)
- I didn't mean anything by it (iIf it means nothing, you'll stop)
- You do stuff to (this is about you not me)
- What about some shit from left field (Your Boy Archie is a jerk, he's been trying to creep on me...)
- Pouts and stomps, gets mad, starts crying - hoping that you'll comfort her and forget.....)
3) She has to "break" somewhat
4) Then you need to give her a way to handle the situation to make you happy.
5) You have to put this in the context to what is at stake -
"I was leaning towards you, but now I'm leaning away from you. "
You never need to define the relationship, especially at this point.
If she can't do these basic things, drop her. If you tell her that if she fucks up you'll bounce, you have to.
If you keep leaving her entirely as your ace, which is an ace you've always had, you have wiggle room.
6) Reinforcement
Reward her good behavior with affection and warmth. You punish her slights by withdrawing the warmth and attention. AND you hedge your bets by staying in the gym, eating right, and staying socially active.
You've heard this before in the front end of a pick up, the short game. To me, Reinforcement only means something if the other person is invested. Some random chick may interpret your backturns and withdrawal as actual disinterest...and then you when you try and spark her back up, she's out of the zone or doesn't like your wishy-washyness.
7) How it plays out.
LTR's are about compromise because no girl is perfect. Indeed, she's the most perfect for your conception of a woman when you meet her. That fades away and what is left is something you hate, or something you like even more. Looks are the bait, her behavior is the hook, line, and sinker.
WIA
Hank, nice post on an important Game aspect.
At first glance, this is a solid method for keeping your frame and punishing her for bad behavior. However, there are some elements here that we can all learn from. I have some alternative points of view which is not meant as criticism of Hank. Handling this stuff isn't easy in the moment and we all know about Monday morning quarterbacking.
1. Put away the phone. It is an obvious method for not dealing with the situation at hand. It is a nervous reaction in an attempt to buy time and hope the situation goes away.
2. If you are going to leave, then leave. Walking away to another part of the bar to see if she notices is another attempt to passively deal with this conflict and something women do. This will never work. At this point your frame was broken for not dealing with the situation assertively and immediately. Your only option to salvage any frame after 30 minutes of allowing this to happen was to eject.
3. 1 and 2 are examples of the flight or fight response. Flight being the chosen method for dealing with the situation. As in "Fight", I do not refer to starting an actual fight. I refer to asserting your presence calmly and confidently. All parties knew what was happening very early on in the interaction. Masculine frame needed to be asserted to put a stop to 3 people disrespecting you.
4. Give consideration to the type of places you are bringing girls for a drink.
5. Rocha makes an important point. This situation should have been dealt with immediately with a strong masculine frame. See his succinct response for dealing with the situation.
6. If you have to show someone how "alpha" you are, you aren't alpha..it is contrived.
7. She was not punished hard enough. Yes, you got laid, but you responded to her within 20 minutes and saw her the same day. In a sense she came out on top. She flirted, got the satisfaction of causing drama and got laid a short time after. You also left another girl, Ashley to go spend time with her. This is another reinforcement of her behavior and clearly indicates her as the prize.
8. I believe in being direct. As far as I can tell, she was never called out directly for her behavior.
9. If you are going to ditch a girl for that kind of behavior, follow through and be congruent. Go silent. Stick to your guns about all this "not caring if I ever see her again" stuff. You can't fake abundance mentality.
10. Hank, nice analysis of the situation and good job with your progression. However, this is not the best way to handle the situation, keep frame, or punish a girl for bad behavior.
At first glance, this is a solid method for keeping your frame and punishing her for bad behavior. However, there are some elements here that we can all learn from. I have some alternative points of view which is not meant as criticism of Hank. Handling this stuff isn't easy in the moment and we all know about Monday morning quarterbacking.
1. Put away the phone. It is an obvious method for not dealing with the situation at hand. It is a nervous reaction in an attempt to buy time and hope the situation goes away.
2. If you are going to leave, then leave. Walking away to another part of the bar to see if she notices is another attempt to passively deal with this conflict and something women do. This will never work. At this point your frame was broken for not dealing with the situation assertively and immediately. Your only option to salvage any frame after 30 minutes of allowing this to happen was to eject.
3. 1 and 2 are examples of the flight or fight response. Flight being the chosen method for dealing with the situation. As in "Fight", I do not refer to starting an actual fight. I refer to asserting your presence calmly and confidently. All parties knew what was happening very early on in the interaction. Masculine frame needed to be asserted to put a stop to 3 people disrespecting you.
4. Give consideration to the type of places you are bringing girls for a drink.
5. Rocha makes an important point. This situation should have been dealt with immediately with a strong masculine frame. See his succinct response for dealing with the situation.
6. If you have to show someone how "alpha" you are, you aren't alpha..it is contrived.
7. She was not punished hard enough. Yes, you got laid, but you responded to her within 20 minutes and saw her the same day. In a sense she came out on top. She flirted, got the satisfaction of causing drama and got laid a short time after. You also left another girl, Ashley to go spend time with her. This is another reinforcement of her behavior and clearly indicates her as the prize.
8. I believe in being direct. As far as I can tell, she was never called out directly for her behavior.
9. If you are going to ditch a girl for that kind of behavior, follow through and be congruent. Go silent. Stick to your guns about all this "not caring if I ever see her again" stuff. You can't fake abundance mentality.
10. Hank, nice analysis of the situation and good job with your progression. However, this is not the best way to handle the situation, keep frame, or punish a girl for bad behavior.
Quote: (01-04-2016 07:32 PM)Dantes Wrote:
Hank, nice post on an important Game aspect.
At first glance, this is a solid method for keeping your frame and punishing her for bad behavior. However, there are some elements here that we can all learn from. I have some alternative points of view which is not meant as criticism of Hank. Handling this stuff isn't easy in the moment and we all know about Monday morning quarterbacking.
1. Put away the phone. It is an obvious method for not dealing with the situation at hand. It is a nervous reaction in an attempt to buy time and hope the situation goes away.
2. If you are going to leave, then leave. Walking away to another part of the bar to see if she notices is another attempt to passively deal with this conflict and something women do. This will never work. At this point your frame was broken for not dealing with the situation assertively and immediately. Your only option to salvage any frame after 30 minutes of allowing this to happen was to eject.
3. 1 and 2 are examples of the flight or fight response. Flight being the chosen method for dealing with the situation. As in "Fight", I do not refer to starting an actual fight. I refer to asserting your presence calmly and confidently. All parties knew what was happening very early on in the interaction. Masculine frame needed to be asserted to put a stop to 3 people disrespecting you.
4. Give consideration to the type of places you are bringing girls for a drink.
5. Rocha makes an important point. This situation should have been dealt with immediately with a strong masculine frame. See his succinct response for dealing with the situation.
6. If you have to show someone how "alpha" you are, you aren't alpha..it is contrived.
7. She was not punished hard enough. Yes, you got laid, but you responded to her within 20 minutes and saw her the same day. In a sense she came out on top. She flirted, got the satisfaction of causing drama and got laid a short time after. You also left another girl, Ashley to go spend time with her. This is another reinforcement of her behavior and clearly indicates her as the prize.
8. I believe in being direct. As far as I can tell, she was never called out directly for her behavior.
9. If you are going to ditch a girl for that kind of behavior, follow through and be congruent. Go silent. Stick to your guns about all this "not caring if I ever see her again" stuff. You can't fake abundance mentality.
10. Hank, nice analysis of the situation and good job with your progression. However, this is not the best way to handle the situation, keep frame, or punish a girl for bad behavior.
Really great analysis, +1 from me.
-CD
Dantes +1 from me as well.
Perfect post and the right answer.
Point #3 - you are so correct, he got disrepected by 3 people and the gal was responsible. In my earlier post, I said she would have to get blown off completely or a week freeze out or more.
The question is, would she try that crap again?
Perfect post and the right answer.
Point #3 - you are so correct, he got disrepected by 3 people and the gal was responsible. In my earlier post, I said she would have to get blown off completely or a week freeze out or more.
The question is, would she try that crap again?
@Archie
So much Game in that last post. Really deserves it's own thread IMO
Women are master arguers and manipulators, capable of pulling you down to the lowest common denominator. After a while you are less about your happiness or shared happiness.
The relationship becomes all about her, and the salving of her past wounds & the calming of her insecurities. What happens is little by little, you unconsciously are giving ground and losing frame as she chips away at the boundaries of the relationship. Insidious is the word that comes to mind.
Equally as applicable to the entire thread; every walk over starts with an unchecked stepping on off the toes.
So much Game in that last post. Really deserves it's own thread IMO
Women are master arguers and manipulators, capable of pulling you down to the lowest common denominator. After a while you are less about your happiness or shared happiness.
The relationship becomes all about her, and the salving of her past wounds & the calming of her insecurities. What happens is little by little, you unconsciously are giving ground and losing frame as she chips away at the boundaries of the relationship. Insidious is the word that comes to mind.
Equally as applicable to the entire thread; every walk over starts with an unchecked stepping on off the toes.
MDP
Quote: (01-04-2016 12:50 AM)HankMoody Wrote:
"You just abandoned me? Like that? Without saying anything? How I am going to get home?"
[ten minutes later] "uber"
That was a great laugh. Nice work playing "Captain Obvious" for a while.
Girl's probably well into her third decade of life and can't figure out how to get home from a bar.
![[Image: confused.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/confused.gif)
Not that I necessarily want my meetups to go badly, not at all. But I'm somewhat looking forward to the next time an online dating chick pulls out her smartphone or starts chatting up other guys on a date. I'm going to be up and rolling over to the bar to grab a drink and get some reading done. It'll be really interesting to see how one of these self-centered women reacts when their rudeness gets returned to them - there was a time when I wasn't doing too good and I sat there and took it like a chump, but I've had enough successes now that I don't care.
I'm almost giddy as a schoolgirl with anticipation.
I have recent first hand experience of using this frame to my benefit as well with very similar situations. A year ago I would have never considered doing something like this, but after swallowing the pill and discovering this forum I'm sold.
Situation 1:
Was out on a 2nd date with a girl that I met online, I'm early 40's and she's late 20's. I was in town on business for a week so I knew it wasn't going to be a LTR at all (although, I did tell her I was considering moving there). Banged her on the first date and this second date was just a casual drink and appetizer at a bar. We're about 1 drink in when she notices that an ex- boyfriend of her's is seated at a table near the bar. She starts talking to me about their relationship, about how she felt bad for dumping him, how she's heard he's never gotten over her, etc. She says she'd like to go talk to him for a second. A second turns into 10 minutes. I get up to go use the bathroom and I come out and he is hugging her and I see them kiss! I obviously exit stage left at that point without saying a word. She sees me walking out of the bar. I don't argue, I don't say a word. She goes on and on explaining herself as I get into the car. She asks if she can come back to my hotel room with me. 2nd bang ensues. I never contacted her again after that
Situation 2:
Have a 1st date with a VERY hot girl. We meet up at a Halloween party at this bar. Have a bunch of drinks and decide to hit the dance floor. Dance a few songs and at one point I turn around and I see her talking to this other guy. I give it about 3 minutes and then see she's taking down his phone number in her phone. At that point I just turn and walk away. I get a bunch of WTF texts from her later that night. I ignore them completely. She reaches back out to me about 2 weeks later. I invite her over to my house on a random Thursday night. I get the bang that night and then next her.
In my prior life I would have stood there like a chump and would probably never have gotten the bang with either of these chicks. Now, I see the situation for what it is, displayed an abundance mentality and got the bangs. It also gave me enough red flags with both chicks that I didn't invest any more time or emotion into them.
Situation 1:
Was out on a 2nd date with a girl that I met online, I'm early 40's and she's late 20's. I was in town on business for a week so I knew it wasn't going to be a LTR at all (although, I did tell her I was considering moving there). Banged her on the first date and this second date was just a casual drink and appetizer at a bar. We're about 1 drink in when she notices that an ex- boyfriend of her's is seated at a table near the bar. She starts talking to me about their relationship, about how she felt bad for dumping him, how she's heard he's never gotten over her, etc. She says she'd like to go talk to him for a second. A second turns into 10 minutes. I get up to go use the bathroom and I come out and he is hugging her and I see them kiss! I obviously exit stage left at that point without saying a word. She sees me walking out of the bar. I don't argue, I don't say a word. She goes on and on explaining herself as I get into the car. She asks if she can come back to my hotel room with me. 2nd bang ensues. I never contacted her again after that
Situation 2:
Have a 1st date with a VERY hot girl. We meet up at a Halloween party at this bar. Have a bunch of drinks and decide to hit the dance floor. Dance a few songs and at one point I turn around and I see her talking to this other guy. I give it about 3 minutes and then see she's taking down his phone number in her phone. At that point I just turn and walk away. I get a bunch of WTF texts from her later that night. I ignore them completely. She reaches back out to me about 2 weeks later. I invite her over to my house on a random Thursday night. I get the bang that night and then next her.
In my prior life I would have stood there like a chump and would probably never have gotten the bang with either of these chicks. Now, I see the situation for what it is, displayed an abundance mentality and got the bangs. It also gave me enough red flags with both chicks that I didn't invest any more time or emotion into them.
You know when you hear a beautiful song, or see an awesome movie...
Turnus, your examples brings a manly tear to my eye
Turnus, your examples brings a manly tear to my eye
Quote: (01-05-2016 10:44 AM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:
@Archie
So much Game in that last post. Really deserves it's own thread IMO
Women are master arguers and manipulators, capable of pulling you down to the lowest common denominator. After a while you are less about your happiness or shared happiness.
The relationship becomes all about her, and the salving of her past wounds & the calming of her insecurities. What happens is little by little, you unconsciously are giving ground and losing frame as she chips away at the boundaries of the relationship. Insidious is the word that comes to mind.
Equally as applicable to the entire thread; every walk over starts with an unchecked stepping on off the toes.
Agreed. It is about impossible to out argue a woman. They don't subscribe to logic and if they have no argument they just lie. When faced with no alternatives I usually just go with: "you stupid fucking cunt". That generally sends them out of their mind and most report that I'm the first to call them that. I just laugh and say then don't be one.
Quote: (01-05-2016 03:11 PM)Turnus Wrote:
I have recent first hand experience of using this frame to my benefit as well with very similar situations. A year ago I would have never considered doing something like this, but after swallowing the pill and discovering this forum I'm sold.
Situation 1:
Was out on a 2nd date with a girl that I met online, I'm early 40's and she's late 20's. I was in town on business for a week so I knew it wasn't going to be a LTR at all (although, I did tell her I was considering moving there). Banged her on the first date and this second date was just a casual drink and appetizer at a bar. We're about 1 drink in when she notices that an ex- boyfriend of her's is seated at a table near the bar. She starts talking to me about their relationship, about how she felt bad for dumping him, how she's heard he's never gotten over her, etc. She says she'd like to go talk to him for a second. A second turns into 10 minutes. I get up to go use the bathroom and I come out and he is hugging her and I see them kiss! I obviously exit stage left at that point without saying a word. She sees me walking out of the bar. I don't argue, I don't say a word. She goes on and on explaining herself as I get into the car. She asks if she can come back to my hotel room with me. 2nd bang ensues. I never contacted her again after that
Situation 2:
Have a 1st date with a VERY hot girl. We meet up at a Halloween party at this bar. Have a bunch of drinks and decide to hit the dance floor. Dance a few songs and at one point I turn around and I see her talking to this other guy. I give it about 3 minutes and then see she's taking down his phone number in her phone. At that point I just turn and walk away. I get a bunch of WTF texts from her later that night. I ignore them completely. She reaches back out to me about 2 weeks later. I invite her over to my house on a random Thursday night. I get the bang that night and then next her.
In my prior life I would have stood there like a chump and would probably never have gotten the bang with either of these chicks. Now, I see the situation for what it is, displayed an abundance mentality and got the bangs. It also gave me enough red flags with both chicks that I didn't invest any more time or emotion into them.
Well done my friend, well done.
![[Image: clap.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/clap.gif)
Amazing OP. I nearly teared up. Such a stroke of alpha and so beautifully written (edit: I wrote this before reading WIA's teary eyed reaction above...weird).
WIA, you summarized my marriage in just a few short sentences...
This was one of the most frustrating points of my marriage. In that way, I think this is one of the most effective ways women weed out men, thus one of the simplest ways men can differentiate themselves.
WIA, you summarized my marriage in just a few short sentences...
Quote: (01-04-2016 06:21 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
...
When she focuses on you defining the thing she did, she can wiggle out of it.
...
Sometimes you just want the chick to twist in the wind, and use that undefined thing to get more emotional/relationship leverage. This is exactly what women do. Get mad, get silent, don't tell you what you did wrong, make you drag it out of them. And then they gain ground. Because you react to this, she makes you pay for your one mistake by looking at your other behavior. You'd swear they all had a class on it (when they separated us in the 3rd grade for the birds and bees speech).
...
This was one of the most frustrating points of my marriage. In that way, I think this is one of the most effective ways women weed out men, thus one of the simplest ways men can differentiate themselves.
“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”
Quote: (01-04-2016 12:50 AM)HankMoody Wrote:
...
As I get there, two good looking dudes are chatting up my girl. They have heavy Australian accents and their game is strong.
...
How about this? Anyone tried the "What are you trying to achieve here" line?
https://youtu.be/uYuACPtiOjU?t=30m50s
Quote: (01-05-2016 05:05 PM)heavy Wrote:
Amazing OP. I nearly teared up. Such a stroke of alpha and so beautifully written (edit: I wrote this before reading WIA's teary eyed reaction above...weird).
WIA, you summarized my marriage in just a few short sentences...
Quote: (01-04-2016 06:21 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
...
When she focuses on you defining the thing she did, she can wiggle out of it.
...
Sometimes you just want the chick to twist in the wind, and use that undefined thing to get more emotional/relationship leverage. This is exactly what women do. Get mad, get silent, don't tell you what you did wrong, make you drag it out of them. And then they gain ground. Because you react to this, she makes you pay for your one mistake by looking at your other behavior. You'd swear they all had a class on it (when they separated us in the 3rd grade for the birds and bees speech).
...
This was one of the most frustrating points of my marriage. In that way, I think this is one of the most effective ways women weed out men, thus one of the simplest ways men can differentiate themselves.
On the one hand, I'd like to see a post where guys that are divorced break down how their wives broke them down.
But that'd be a trigger warning for real.
WIA
Quote: (01-05-2016 07:21 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
Quote: (01-05-2016 05:05 PM)heavy Wrote:
Amazing OP. I nearly teared up. Such a stroke of alpha and so beautifully written (edit: I wrote this before reading WIA's teary eyed reaction above...weird).
WIA, you summarized my marriage in just a few short sentences...
Quote: (01-04-2016 06:21 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
...
When she focuses on you defining the thing she did, she can wiggle out of it.
...
Sometimes you just want the chick to twist in the wind, and use that undefined thing to get more emotional/relationship leverage. This is exactly what women do. Get mad, get silent, don't tell you what you did wrong, make you drag it out of them. And then they gain ground. Because you react to this, she makes you pay for your one mistake by looking at your other behavior. You'd swear they all had a class on it (when they separated us in the 3rd grade for the birds and bees speech).
...
This was one of the most frustrating points of my marriage. In that way, I think this is one of the most effective ways women weed out men, thus one of the simplest ways men can differentiate themselves.
On the one hand, I'd like to see a post where guys that are divorced break down how their wives broke them down.
But that'd be a trigger warning for real.
WIA
This needs to happen, the amount of potential it has is insane.
Quote: (01-04-2016 07:32 PM)Dantes Wrote:
Hank, nice post on an important Game aspect.
At first glance, this is a solid method for keeping your frame and punishing her for bad behavior. However, there are some elements here that we can all learn from. I have some alternative points of view which is not meant as criticism of Hank. Handling this stuff isn't easy in the moment and we all know about Monday morning quarterbacking.
1. Put away the phone. It is an obvious method for not dealing with the situation at hand. It is a nervous reaction in an attempt to buy time and hope the situation goes away.
2. If you are going to leave, then leave. Walking away to another part of the bar to see if she notices is another attempt to passively deal with this conflict and something women do. This will never work. At this point your frame was broken for not dealing with the situation assertively and immediately. Your only option to salvage any frame after 30 minutes of allowing this to happen was to eject.
3. 1 and 2 are examples of the flight or fight response. Flight being the chosen method for dealing with the situation. As in "Fight", I do not refer to starting an actual fight. I refer to asserting your presence calmly and confidently. All parties knew what was happening very early on in the interaction. Masculine frame needed to be asserted to put a stop to 3 people disrespecting you.
4. Give consideration to the type of places you are bringing girls for a drink.
5. Rocha makes an important point. This situation should have been dealt with immediately with a strong masculine frame. See his succinct response for dealing with the situation.
6. If you have to show someone how "alpha" you are, you aren't alpha..it is contrived.
7. She was not punished hard enough. Yes, you got laid, but you responded to her within 20 minutes and saw her the same day. In a sense she came out on top. She flirted, got the satisfaction of causing drama and got laid a short time after. You also left another girl, Ashley to go spend time with her. This is another reinforcement of her behavior and clearly indicates her as the prize.
8. I believe in being direct. As far as I can tell, she was never called out directly for her behavior.
9. If you are going to ditch a girl for that kind of behavior, follow through and be congruent. Go silent. Stick to your guns about all this "not caring if I ever see her again" stuff. You can't fake abundance mentality.
10. Hank, nice analysis of the situation and good job with your progression. However, this is not the best way to handle the situation, keep frame, or punish a girl for bad behavior.
This is a very underrated and valuable post. Why?
Dantes is a friend of mine. I have both seen him game and gamed with him. It was a privilege. I can vouch personally that he knows what he's talking about.
We spoke about this earlier. He knows how to dig through game theory and understand what works.
Quote: (01-05-2016 03:11 PM)Turnus Wrote:
In my prior life I would have stood there like a chump and would probably never have gotten the bang with either of these chicks. Now, I see the situation for what it is, displayed an abundance mentality and got the bangs. It also gave me enough red flags with both chicks that I didn't invest any more time or emotion into them.
True story, brother.
I found this forum a little over two years ago, and the true gifts of knowledge continue to make my life better. I wasn't exactly struggling to get women, it was managing them effectively that was my weakness. I let them get away with things I shouldn't have because I always thought being nice or a good guy was the right way to make them continue to drop their panties. I wasn't willing to rock the boat. It caused a lot of internal strife, my gut knew it was wrong, but there I was, continuing to put up with their bullshit day after day.
But that changed, and I am better because of it.
I remember NYE 2014/15, took my main girl with another couple and a set of 3 of their girlfriends to the bars to ring in the new year. Met one of their other guy friends out, had a great time. After last call, we went to a different bar that served pizza and to start figuring out taxis/rides home while we got food. We found a table that fit all 8 of us that was about 25 feet from the bar where everyone was closing tabs, finishing drinks, etc. I leave my seat and head to the bar rail to order the table a pizza to share and grab a water. As I'm walking back to the table, there is a guy talking to the girl I brought, running what appears to be drunk game on her. In a past life, I would have been jealous, upset, whatever. Not this time. This is just a guy trying to get laid on NYE and it's a 2am hail mary. I can respect that. I simply walked to the table, interrupted their conversation, and said, "Excuse me, you're in my seat." Dude apologized and bounced. My girl starts in with the "He just came up and started talking, I didn't say anything!" I responded with, "Ok, Pizza will be ready soon." No problems.
Controlling frame, inner game, whatever you want to call it, has lead my interactions with girls to be much more pleasant. I don't have arguments. She starts being a bitch and gets an attitude/ starts yelling for whatever reason on the phone, I tell her to knock if off, she does it twice- I just hang up on her. She calls back, I answer. Hello? She gets mad I hung up on her, I hang up again. And I keep doing it until she apologizes for poor behavior and calms down. Or maybe she never calls back. Doesn't matter. Because at that very moment, she has been demoted. I don't give a shit if I ever fuck her again. I don't need that type of person in my life if she's going to be that way. If her attitude changes for the better, my door opens again.
This post was more personal than I thought it was going to be, but it's the change in mentality by being a part of this forum that made all the difference. You can pick up on little things to improve yourself, if you spend the time to find them. A good example of this, check out the Cobra/H3ltrsk3ltr podcast. Even though it got cut short, just listen to how they speak. Anabasis to Desta picked up on it too and mentioned it in his comment. A lot of times it's not what you say, but simply how you say it, or a look you give to someone. And all of that comes from the frame you live in and set for yourself in every aspect of life. But you have to believe it.
You win some, you lose some, but it sure as hell beats being a chump.
Quote: (01-04-2016 09:34 AM)HankMoody Wrote:
Quote: (01-04-2016 09:28 AM)Rocha Wrote:
The easiest thing to do was after bringing the drinks, ask her if she knew them, then after her response, give them a firm shake of hands and a serious face, lay your arm around her, or if sitting side by side, lay your hand in the inside of her leg. Highly unlikely the dudes would still scavenge. And in no way this would start a fight.
Yes, that would have been the easiest thing to do. And it probably would have fixed the problem.
In the short term.
However, it wouldn't have fixed the real issue - that she was flirting with other men right in front of me. I'm not going to waste my time with a girl who I have to constantly worry about, or fend off other men from. There are too many available women out there, and the competition is a joke. She has to understand that.
It proved more effective to do something bold and audacious, because now she doesn't pull that kind of crap. That moment set the tone of our entire relationship.
I totally agree with Hank here. It' not like this was his first date with her. Having just nailed her the previous night, not only is it out of line for her to be so fervently chatting up a couple dudes, it's just plain rude as fuck, and no matter what bitch-test excuse she gives.. "you know I'm social.. blah blah blah," it was certainly an attempt to incite jealousy and go for an early power grab in the relationship.
If it was a first date, I'd interject quickly and maybe even tell the guys to scram if they didn't get the point right away. And if they insisted, pick the biggest one up by the throat and put him down by the back of the head... but I think they'd get the point.. haha.
Hank...if you wrote a book, I'd buy it. Definitely a lot of good post in this thread as well. Good chance we've all been tested like this at some point or will be soon enough. These stories alone could save a lot of cats from headache and heartache down the line.
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