[jariel]

(12-15-2015 02:30 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

I already ordered a gift for her awhile back, so I'll be dropping that off at her house.

I'd keep that money and get myself something nice.

Be careful putting extras on this shit, if she doesn't have someone else already waiting in the wings, she'll have someone else handcuffed soon enough, and you'll be a distant memory.

Don't get full of yourself and think you've just shattered this chick's world.

You haven't.

She'll have new dick before you have the chance to drop off that present that you shouldn't be gifting her to begin with.

I've said it before man, pity and the game don't mix.

[kaotic]

At this point it doesn't and shouldn't matter, we're over, that's all there is to say.

You're absolutely right about your post - that absolutely is what I'm going through right now, thanks for your support man.

I'll back off on the gift, it's time to move on.

[Noir]

kaotic, I dig your posts big-time and thanks for taking the time to make this thread, a lot of wisdom has been dropped already on the first page.

Good on you for not being selfish and making the adult decision here.

Keep doing you and what is right for yourself.

Play on player.

[Balkan]

Thanks for being honest and giving us a play by play in this thread. I've been notoriously bad and often a coward at breaking up past relationships. It's something I'm working on and you've set a good example.

Best of luck moving on. From all your reports I'm sure it'll take no time. We're here for you if you need to talk anything out.

[Travesty]

That was a good move for both your sakes.

This may be too soft, but honestly if you go live life for a bit and for whatever reason you want it all with her later still (which I highly doubt) you left on a note of mutual love and respect.

[WestIndianArchie]

That was a tough read. I think you made the right choice for the right reasons.

These next few months are going to be the toughest.

WIA

[Kaii]

I think you did the right thing my friend. I know it wasn't easy.

Hang in there my man!

[The Black Knight]

When I read the original post, all I could keep thinking was:

"You need to walk away. This is a train wreck in the making"

Onto along with others covered in excellent detail why.

I'm glad you made right call. You probably will be questing yourself over the next few weeks but make no mistake: you made the difficult but right choice. If you married or had kids with this woman, the odds of your life turning into a living nightmare down the line would have been extremely high.

But in the end....getting bangs for many of us isn't too difficult. Having a genuine connection with a woman however, even if she is not mother of your children material or the relationship is dysfunctional at times, can be a rare thing. It is for me at least. Unfortunately, I've had to end all those connections because I knew ultimately they were dead ends. Even if the connection is only a few months old, losing it can be briefly painful. Having a connection of several years and losing it can be devastating for some.

Take comfort in the simply fact that you have game, red pill awareness and you have established strong connections in the past. You will establish new connections going forward.

I imagine you will be doing a lot of introspection over the next few weeks and are pondering over lessons learned. Might not apply to you for various reasons but I've found through experience its best to avoid intense LTRs with women you don't see as being mother of your children. If viewing a woman as an LTR prospect, I suggest you scrutinize everything about the person early on: her lifestyle, family, values, past behavior, desire/timetable for children. EVERYTHING. Solid chemistry alone is not enough for an LTR in my opinion. Chicks really needs to be the full package to get LTR status with me now. Anything less and the trade offs/drama (cheating on an intense LTR is potential epic drama in the making)/sacrifices are not worth it.

Pretty much no woman makes it past the 2-3 month point now if on the LTR track because by then, enough red flags have popped up to DQ her from ever being the mother of my kids. With this woman (for me at least), being a heavy smoker and a bartender would have been dealbreakers from day 1 and she would have been nothing more than non-exclusive mini-relationship material. These don't have to be your dealbreakers but I would be REALLY honest with yourself about what you can tolerate and not tolerate so you can screen out a chick faster in the future (if viewing her as an LTR prospect).

I value strong connections with women but I also hate wasting substantial periods of time. All roads with women lead to children eventually in the vast majority of cases. As soon as you can't honestly see it happening with a chick, its best to get off the LTR train. You will save yourself a lot of time and heartache.

Also, you have to consider your age and place in life. Late 20s, still getting your financial footing and you love playing the field. Just enjoy doing that until if/when you get the desire to have kids. Keep your eye out for that ultra-rare full package chick, maybe do some mini-relationships with chicks you have a solid connection with until they inevitably DQ themselves as an LTR candidate (In America, 98% of women will early on if you know what to look for). All this drama with STDs, invested time that led to nowhere, people crying, cheating, blah blah. What's the point?

Life's too short.

[birthday cat]

I think one of the smartest things I guy can do is recognize when he is emotionally involved in a situation and get opinions from other guys to help me see clearly and make a logical decision. I wish I had that level of maturity in my 20s.

[rudebwoy]

Kaotic you gained alot of respect, for keeping it real.

I've been through the same thing and ultimately realized in the long run would I still be happy.

I couldn't really give myself a honest answer.

[kaotic]

You've got to pull away from the emotions and use your head to keep a logical end game.

The reason I began to question things is conversations that were brought up - things I read on the forum.

Deep down I knew the writing was on the wall and that no matter how good she was - this LTR was on it's tail end.

I remind myself that it's not fair to me or her to waste each others time, especially when she has an expiration date.



I'd like to thank all you RVF brothers for your support and logical answers to this conclusion.

[Dalaran1991]

Best of luck on the road ahead man! Thanks for sharing your story I learn a lot from yours.

It's the mark of true character to ask for help when you need it, and to make the right choice based on sound advice and not ego or blind emotion. It's not easy to sever a bond such deep with your girl, I shudder to think if one day when I'll have to do it myself with a girl I'm attached to, but your story gives me courage.

[Cheetah]

Quote:

She gave me the “what are we talk” after a few months of seeing each other and catching me on tinder (I denied till I died said it was a crazy ex catfishing me)

How did SHE find you on Tinder?

[Travesty]

So are you moving to Colombia, Brazil, or Russia?

[General Stalin]

(12-15-2015 05:46 PM)Cheetah Wrote:  

Quote:

She gave me the “what are we talk” after a few months of seeing each other and catching me on tinder (I denied till I died said it was a crazy ex catfishing me)

How did SHE find you on Tinder?

"On of her friends" probably "came across his profile."

Anyway, this is a great thread full of solid advice and content and I applaud you for handling this adroitly and with aplomb. I wish my LTR's could have ended as cleanly and reasonably as yours.

Ending things on healthy and mutual terms is wonderful. She is of course hurt that you don't want the same things that she wants, but you both know that you did the right thing by letting her go and not wasting each other's time.

[Roardog]

(12-15-2015 01:38 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

You've got to pull away from the emotions and use your head to keep a logical end game.

The reason I began to question things is conversations that were brought up - things I read on the forum.

Deep down I knew the writing was on the wall and that no matter how good she was - this LTR was on it's tail end.

I remind myself that it's not fair to me or her to waste each others time, especially when she has an expiration date.



I'd like to thank all you RVF brothers for your support and logical answers to this conclusion.

You've done the right thing mate and you've done it a lot earlier than I did. I was with my ex for 7.5 years before I realised what you just have. I did the same thing as you, had a very civilized conversation with my girl about it, realised we weren't moving in the same direction any more and ended it on good terms. If only all break ups could be so rational.

My advice is to not look back with regret, you had many good times with this girl and you should appreciate those and remember them positively. Just because everything comes to an end eventually doesn't mean you shouldn't ever start.
It's tough but believe me you'll find someone else and it's much better to end it now than end up in a position that is hard to get out of (marriage, mortgage, kids, etc) and feeling guilty for wasting her best years.

[Mess O.]

A very absorbing read, and I had a pretty solid idea of how it would end, even early on. I don't think I've ever seen a more thorough and dedicated support network.

[Dagnasty]

(12-18-2015 01:39 AM)Mess O. Wrote:  

A very absorbing read, and I had a pretty solid idea of how it would end, even early on. I don't think I've ever seen a more thorough and dedicated support network.

Agreed. I really like the positive helpful attitude of this forum.

OP, I've been where you're st. You're going to question your decision for a long time. Stand by it and don't fold. It's going to be hard.

[Gorgiass]

(12-15-2015 09:22 AM)birthday cat Wrote:  

I think one of the smartest things I guy can do is recognize when he is emotionally involved in a situation and get opinions from other guys to help me see clearly and make a logical decision. I wish I had that level of maturity in my 20s.

And act on that advice. You made the right decision.

I just broke things off with a girl I hung out with infrequently because of distance Wed night. Went out drinking and back in the hotel she sprung on me that she met someone else, "he loved her, I didn't". Said she loved me (eek) had been waiting for me and would continue waiting for me, even move closer to me if I asked her to. I told her she shouldn't wait for me, that I liked her but that was all, not in a dick way. Slept together and it hurt saying goodbye the next AM but better to do the right thing and slow the decline a little, even if it means missing out on a few bangs.

Props for doing the right thing and letting logic beat emotion.

[kaotic]

(12-14-2015 08:56 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

As stated by Onto and Oz, you're at the crossroads. You don't live together: and that's where I think she's going with this rather than the "all-in" of marriage. You could attempt this before anything else, but also remember that caving to the whims of a female is a slippery slope, and they can never get enough. You would also be around her more and only seeing a girl two-three times a week is not enough to gauge her character when you're not looking. In private, there will be nothing to hide, nothing to overlook; you will see her at her worst, and as such, will be able to plan your next move. This is what I believe would be optimal for you at this moment in time: don't talk about marriage, tell her to drop the cigs and weed, and suggest a trial run of living together if you want to see what she's really made of.

Yeah even crossing that threshold wasn't on the table, I'm not ready to live with any women at all, even as just roommates.

You are right, she might be a different person when she's with me almost 24/7, which obviously would cut down on my gaming other girls, which in turn might turn me into a different person.

I'm sure I'd hate the smoking everyday and being around it for one.

(12-14-2015 09:22 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

And as well for long term material your posts in the Travel section are pretty thin. I know what SoCal girls are like. For the long term real life shit there is much better (70% divorce rate does not speak well). The daily making meals, changing diapers, having loved ones get old and die and so on.

Yeah I've got to get out of this place and travel (to another country), this is a goal I failed to do in 2015 but plan on doing in 2016.

(12-14-2015 10:26 PM)jariel Wrote:  

At this point, she's somewhere between a fuck buddy and a girlfriend, and the fact that you're still fucking other chicks, even while you two have been doing your thing says a lot.

It says that you don't care if you lose her.

When people feel they have something to lose, they self-police.

Stop wasting your time, move on, this shit can only get uglier.

I'd say she was for sure a girlfriend she was the only one I brought around socially, made it a point to introduce her to my friends. We traveled domestically together.

But of course it wasn't fully time 3-5 days a week.

Honestly, I was a bit worried about losing her however, having all the power in the relationship made me think different.

Question is - is having something to lose a bad thing ? Maybe not even with a relationship or girl, just in general ?

Or is that putting pussy on the pedestal ? Or pedestalizing anything in general.

Is self policing a bad/good thing ?

(12-14-2015 11:25 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

- Lastly, I don't think any relationship will truly work out in the long time unless it is based on a firm foundation of faith/values/religion. Both parties need to submit, to some extent, to an external moderator (even if might just be an imaginary one) or else they will end up trying to build a relationship of two people based on their own self-centred individual desires, which seems to only breed disaster. In other words, are you willing to go to church (or whatever mutually agreeable substitute you can find) with this girl, and would she be comfortable being religious? A woman ought to be able to sit through a sermon and then be able to mention a few talking points about it afterwards. If she's squirming through a sermon or a prayer, it means she cannot submit, which means she is not wife material.

I have values, I don't have faith or religion. I did when I was younger and turned away from it, it just doesn't interest me. Neither of us were fairly religious, we did have good values.

I'll write more about this below.

(12-15-2015 09:07 AM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

Take comfort in the simply fact that you have game, red pill awareness and you have established strong connections in the past. You will establish new connections going forward.

I suggest you scrutinize everything about the person early on: her lifestyle, family, values, past behavior, desire/timetable for children. EVERYTHING. Solid chemistry alone is not enough for an LTR in my opinion. Chicks really needs to be the full package to get LTR status with me now. Anything less and the trade offs/drama (cheating on an intense LTR is potential epic drama in the making)/sacrifices are not worth it.

being a heavy smoker and a bartender would have been dealbreakers from day 1 and she would have been nothing more than non-exclusive mini-relationship material. These don't have to be your dealbreakers but I would be REALLY honest with yourself about what you can tolerate and not tolerate so you can screen out a chick faster in the future (if viewing her as an LTR prospect).

Also, you have to consider your age and place in life. Late 20s, still getting your financial footing and you love playing the field. Just enjoy doing that until if/when you get the desire to have kids. Keep your eye out for that ultra-rare full package chick, maybe do some mini-relationships with chicks you have a solid connection with until they inevitably DQ themselves as an LTR candidate

I'm thankful I found this forum, learned game, and can make deep connections.

Yeah I'm going to be more careful moving forward, I remember our first date, walking out of the brewery, she asked if I minded she lit up a cigg, which of course I let her. Because I was stoked I met a new hot girl. I should've did a compliance test and said yeah I did mind. The ciggs now I look back at it were a big deal breaker - I look back at it and I for sure wouldn't tolerate the long term. Also, I did tell her to quit, but she only cut back.


Some Thoughts:

It's been about a week since I decided to end things, it's been tough. I've been analyzing such a big decision ever since.

Things could always be worse, but in the end it's the better for both of us.

I was surprised she didn't hit me up after....until this morning. She messaged me on snapchat and asked me if I was okay, I told her I was just processing this, she said she was lost, I think I told her I know or something like that, i don't remember. She never responded, which was a good thing.

I remember her asking me last weekend that if I've ever been friends with any of my ex's - I straight told her no, you can't be, it doesn't work.

I know she'll yearn to stay in contact with me, which would only give her false hope, which should not happen. I'll have to block her on all social media, fortunately she doesn't use anything really except snapchat.


I don't think I'll have any regrets, just pangs of missing her.

-It's weird she doesn't call me morning and nights and I don't talk to her.
-I don't have to worry about her calling and me not answering or replying.
-I never did have any guilt about banging other girls, but now I don't have to worry about it.
-She was fun to be around anywhere I went, but also wasn't fun when I wanted to talk to other girls or run game.

The holidays isn't the best time to breakup with someone, I'm already getting the "where is your girl? "what happened?" texts and conversations which I handle politely and simply.

I think the emotional connection to her was stronger than the physical - here's why:

I had 2 mini LTR's with girls when I was with main - both had tight bodies and curves (chicago and 19 yo 8 black girl). Then there was the indian girl from last week - super tight body, great fuck. Just thinking about these 3 make my dick hard. But only of these (chicago) I didn't mind laying with, and had fun outside of the bedroom with.

My main had a beautiful face but not much of a butt and her tits were small and her nips had been pierced at one point. Basically a skinny model body (she modeled when she was younger also had a contract also)

She made up for this with BDSM sex, and other things. She wasn't as tight and as young as the other girls - I think I was seeing this build up. I knew it was coming.

All in all I enjoyed being around her, but that's over.



Now onto values and views:

I'm not religious, it doesn't interest me. I don't think I'll ever find interest in it and there are plenty of girls who don't either. Yes, religion does make more better girls but that's where I'm not compatible, especially if the girl tries to influence me to convert or join.

Maybe that's the catch 22 of me not being religious. It is what it is.

I also find myself detached when meeting girls parents and extended family lately.

I could say I hungout with my mains parents less than 10 times, I just couldn't connect. Same with my last ex's family. Only first serious GF did I connect with them.

Maybe being raised by a relative and having a distant mother and lack of my biological father have this affect on me. Me and my relative who raised me never really had dinner growing up or a nuclear family. That had to have an affect on me.


Another Realization:

I just realized every single I was serious with had some of the following traits:

-My very first LTR had her father commit suicide (when she was a child), mother was poor, extended family was very strong, and I bonded with them and her cousins.

-The last ex I had had a nuclear family, a sister, a brother, but the mother was awfully obese, the father just laid low and worked his ass off. They were massively in debt and renting a small duplex. I never bonded with her parents and couldn't stand her mom. Her sister and brother were good christian kids and went to christian colleges.

-This main that I just broke up with live in a poor part of town, had a great family, great extended family, and great parents. Thing is they all smoked weed and ciggs.


Guess you can't have both in life - but over all like the above were saying, I was dating down in lower income bracket.

Finding a girl that's middle class or higher that's decent is a hard buy, talk about rare.


I'll post some other thoughts and read your responses later.

[Travesty]

I think it is something not talked about much but for the vast majority of guys wanting to repeat bang and have an LTR:

I think the very best combination is a girl with a face that just crosses your cuteness/hotness threshold, with a fucking banging body underneath. Vs. a girl with a really hot face, and watered down body. This is why serious dancer girls and acrobatic girls are the best.

Faces are nice for the male ego, that wears off though compared to a body you want to fuck repeatedly.

Also the competition for girls and usually how nice their attitude is based on their face rather than the details of a body because of padded bras, spandex, and so on that can hide how good a girl's body really is until you are having sex.

[PapayaTapper]

Kaotic

Kudos for having the courage and fortitude to do the right thing. What you did shows a lot of strength of character




On the bright side is that if you're late 20's the future Mrs K is still out there and about 10-12 yo right now

[wi30]

Kaotic, Onto gave me great advice in my two year ltr thread. Link is below.

thread-51098.html

What is all comes down to is, "Do I see myself waking up to this girl every single morning?" If you can't live through the day to day with your girl, it's game over.

The second part of the issue is, "Do I want to build a fucking army with this girl?" Are you ready to produce children who will grow and recreate your values?

I have no fucking clue what I want to do with my life. But the fact that my post below doesn't terrify me speaks volumes.

(12-12-2015 03:22 AM)wi30 Wrote:  

So last weekend I went up to visit my girlfriend's parents in northern Wisconsin. Her dad has around 40 acres of hunting land surrounded by a few Amish farms. There was work to be done so I brought my splitting maul.

Turns out it was unseasonably warm (50 degrees in December) and we had to bust out a ton of shit. The loggers had finished removing the bulk of timber, but there were a handful of cherry and oak trees left behind. The girls spent the day collecting branches and piling them for burning, as well as watching my dog. My girlfriend's dad manned the chainsaw while I manned the maul. I found a suitable stump and chopped wood for about four hours. Worst part was the wood storage was up a steep hill and he had a shitty wheelbarrow. It was the first time in my life I rocked a short-sleeved shirt in WI in December. I busted my ass harder than I ever have in sports.

I fucking loved it. I'm a city boy at heart. But I've always had a hard-on for an honest days work. My shirt was soaked and I was sore as shit the next day. But I produced results. We stacked the wood over eight feet high after we were done. People up there use that shit to heat their houses.

It made me feel that missing piece in my life. If I ever decide to settle down, I'm going full blown rural (well, within 10 miles of grocery store, decent sized town,etc.) But completely self sufficient. I feel this aspect of manliness is overlooked for most in big cities. I'd love to have a huge ass family someday running a rural mansion with a full garden, wood stove, and chickens.

Maybe our ancestors didn't have it too bad after all.

[kaotic]

(12-18-2015 08:29 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

I think it is something not talked about much but for the vast majority of guys wanting to repeat bang and have an LTR:

I think the very best combination is a girl with a face that just crosses your cuteness/hotness threshold, with a fucking banging body underneath. Vs. a girl with a really hot face, and watered down body. This is why serious dancer girls and acrobatic girls are the best.

Faces are nice for the male ego, that wears off though compared to a body you want to fuck repeatedly.

Also the competition for girls and usually how nice their attitude is based on their face rather than the details of a body because of padded bras, spandex, and so on that can hide how good a girl's body really is until you are having sex.

I happen to agree with that alot actually - the 19 year old cute black girl, absolutely banging body, her face was cute, her hair was horrible, still got me rock hard. Same with chicago, nice white girl booty, great set of tits, decent face but with a small scar from a dog bite. Now this indian girl, tiny, firm, perky, does the job.

My LTR has a beautiful face, but I could tell that novelty was wearing off and my sex drive with her wasn't as great.

(12-18-2015 10:24 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Kaotic

Kudos for having the courage and fortitude to do the right thing. What you did shows a lot of strength of character

On the bright side is that if you're late 20's the future Mrs K is still out there and about 10-12 yo right now

Thanks man I appreciate it, I'm still fighting the whole logic/emotion thing, but I'm pretty sure I've obviously done the right thing.

Who knows maybe by the time my future LTR/wife might be ready to date I just might not be interested in marriage anymore.

(12-18-2015 11:08 PM)wi30 Wrote:  

Kaotic, Onto gave me great advice in my two year ltr thread. Link is below.

thread-51098.html

What is all comes down to is, "Do I see myself waking up to this girl every single morning?" If you can't live through the day to day with your girl, it's game over.

The second part of the issue is, "Do I want to build a fucking army with this girl?" Are you ready to produce children who will grow and recreate your values?

I have no fucking clue what I want to do with my life. But the fact that my post below doesn't terrify me speaks volumes.
-snip-

Onto's advice was solid, I did notice it was geared towards monetary gain and properties, both of which unfortunately I don't have right now.

It looks like you have a solid relationship with your girl and could give a fuck less living in the city and wanting to raise a solid family out there. I know our situations are different, but just like with me, your gut tells you it's all good.


Some more thoughts:

I took this weekend off from work - thought I'd get some man shit done and install some flooring in a room or 2. My buddy was supposed help supervise and he flaked, fucked up thing is, he never hit me back up, even after calling him and texting him a few times.

I ended up buying dress shirts, slacks, and a nice ass TV all half off. Ended up having a buddy mount it and learn how to do it for the future. I still might buy a shotgun also.

It was nice spoiling myself and I didn't spend money on really anyone.

It kept my mind off most things, until I hit my first Xmas party and it kinds had the same tone to everyone I went to.

Every single person asked where my main was, what happened, why, blah blah blah.

It got kind of old, I did think about things. A few said she was like my best friend and they thought we were getting married. One thing that was true is was we were pretty close and talked every single day and it did feel somewhat that way.

I ended up ghosting at a part early, it was mostly couples, older adults, and a baby.

Like I said before usually when I went out and she was around, we had a blast. Of course some annoying instances of a drunk latina attitude.

A gentleman I PM'ed on here told me relationships are heaven and hell, and sometimes riding solo can be purgatory. Granted it depends on your POV.

The funny thing is after I dumped my last ex, I felt relieved, I certain could do better, but also had a hindering feeling I wouldn't find someone hotter.

Cue this main latin LTR girl I found - occasionally im wondering at this age, will I ? The answer is - absolutely I will, I'm still young, I'm in decent shape, I make OK income and it's getting better.

She messaged me saturday mentioning how her feet would look smaller in a certain type of shoe, which she said I was right. All I said was told you.

Then big moves happened - she snapped me last night that she wanted "one last night with me: - basically in my head a bang session. She told me she missed me and "idk"

I swatted that down basically saying "the last thing we need to is string this along, it's not fair" she said "k" I didn't bite.

In the end she told me she's following me of all social media (this is a good thing since I wasn't going to the one doing it) because it hurts so much. Then dropped a line that I still have her number but I doubt I'll ever use it.

She deleted me off everything promptly, this is the end my friend. Telling her it'll be okay in the end won't help either of us, my only option is the do not contact rule and to keep silent.

At first it was tempting to text her, but I find coming back to this forum clears my head and I can rationalize why we needed to end things.

Like I said before: Thanks to all you gents helping a man you've never met out.

[polar]

Kaotic, AB had a good post on that to be good relationship material, a girl had to know suffering and hardship. Princesses and Queens.

thread-51037-page-3.html

A girl who hasn't experienced hardship will only think about herself.