[Nemencine]

Been reading a couple of the FASTING thread...trying to sort some shit out.

I found 4 threads so far....all sorts of confusing info all over the place....

[samsamsam]

I have been doing this for about 10 days now.

I am a morning workout guy so my meal window is from 8 AM to 4PM. Aside from occasional reminders of hunger, I have gotten use to it.

In the morning I'll take some BCAA and green tea pills, which I have read don't really mess with my fasted state.

At night ZMA before sleep, which helps me not to wake up during the middle of the night because I am starving.

And I can already see a difference.

So I just wanted to thank the forum for introducing this concept to me.

[Bilboswaggins]

IF and especilly leangains ( very important not to confuse these two ) was a total game-changer for me in the fitness department. Martin Berkhan's leangains approach is like the red pill of fitness industry, his site is like a concentration camp for broscientists.

I've been fasting for the better part of last year, with this approach I'm constantly hovering around 10% with no effort. Taking on the minimalistic approach to training and dieting, I'm not only the leanest I've been but also stronger than ever. Although I've never had any problems dieting down to single digits, it was always a problem to stay at these levels eating small meals.

A very important thing to remember is that IF is definitely not the magic bullet in any sense, you still have to count the macros and do the training. It's more of a psychological thing for me, it's just a means of creating a calorie buffer in the morning when you're not hungry anyway and eating your calories in the evening.

Right now I'm cutting down to 6% and trying to maintain after that, as I'm getting closer and closer to my genetic maximum. Stats are 6 ft 180 pounds at 9-10%, squatting 310, deadlifting 400 and benching 240 for 1 for anyone who's interested.

[Isaac Jordan]

(03-05-2014 02:10 AM)Bilboswaggins Wrote:  

IF and especilly leangains ( very important not to confuse these two ) was a total game-changer for me in the fitness department. Martin Berkhan's leangains approach is like the red pill of fitness industry, his site is like a concentration camp for broscientists.

Couldn't agree more. IF + a low-carb/paleo-style diet + Leangains training methodology has completely changed my life. I've never looked or felt better, and my numbers in the gym have been increasing consistently since I found LG several months ago (I've been paleo for about a year and fasting for about six months).

I introduced these concepts (IF/low-carb/weight training) to a coworker of mine who finally started to get his act together after he broke up with a long-term girlfriend, and by combining their implementation he managed to go from 6'4", 230 and flabby to about 180 and cut in just under 12 weeks. His before and after looks like something you'd see on a late night infomercial, it's amazing.

[Booyah]

That's just a normal diet, there's no big difference if you cut down your calories and keep a normal diet, especially for the begginers.

You're losing weight by cutting down calories so it doesn't matter how you do this, just keep your calories below your demanding and watch out on macronutrients. That's all.


Also, it's quite hard to gain a weight on IF, hard to eat 3000+ clean food during the 6hs.

[Avon Barksdale]

Anyone here doing IF, watch the Hodgetwins?

[berserk]

I've lost 6 kg in a little over 1.5 months by going low carb and warrior diet like intermittent fasting, despite cheating several times. The only weight loss regimen that has ever worked for me is intermittent fasting and low carb.

[kosko]

(03-07-2014 01:31 PM)Avon Barksdale Wrote:  

Anyone here doing IF, watch the Hodgetwins?

That's whom originally got me into it. Never heard if it prior to them trying it and doing a chronology of their progress.

[samsamsam]

Question for those who do IF: Do you know of any risks to ligaments, etc? I am doing IF and trying to go with reduced calories.

I would just hate to do anything bad that my body couldn't recover from.

Don't get me wrong, I am loving waking up in the AM and seeing the tightness.

Once again thanks to RVF for the introduction to IF.

[kosko]

The only thing that may suffer is is your glycogen stores. Start making note of strength on a day like chest/push (if your doing weightlifting with this), because a lot of dudes will run thin on carbs while on IF and the body will burn through it's stores. That can effect strength and also if your running really low on calories your body will start grabbing at your muscles for energy and not just fat.

The only other thing that IF might cause in some is stress on your adrenals. If your spiked the hell up on energy from it then adjust take windows, workouts, etc to not be so hyped, especially around bedtime. That is something I hard to work with during my hardcore IF days.

[berserk]

I don't notice much decline in strength on IF, though I usually have a small meal during the day, like a bag of nuts. On the other hand, I find it almost impossible to lift after having eaten in the evening on IF.

[Kaizen]

did my first IF yesterday...(11pm friday-4pm saturday)

I like it.

You really appreciate food after a fast. Each bite is a different experience.

[samsamsam]

(03-09-2014 09:40 AM)kosko Wrote:  

The only thing that may suffer is is your glycogen stores. Start making note of strength on a day like chest/push (if your doing weightlifting with this), because a lot of dudes will run thin on carbs while on IF and the body will burn through it's stores. That can effect strength and also if your running really low on calories your body will start grabbing at your muscles for energy and not just fat.

The only other thing that IF might cause in some is stress on your adrenals. If your spiked the hell up on energy from it then adjust take windows, workouts, etc to not be so hyped, especially around bedtime. That is something I hard to work with during my hardcore IF days.

Thanks kosko. I can really see the results and once again truely grateful to rvf for the introduction.

I can bench a little less now, but also I am trying to go slower (MikeCF podcast shout out).

But I am shooting to lose belly fat so this is the trade, I just don't wanna to have any drastic long term penalties for doing it.

I will admit, I am a bit more food obsessed, I mean I have gotten used to the window, but I am more concerned about what I am eating since 1) I only have this window and 2) calories still matter so I can't over eat. So IF has helped me make better food choices, I make 95% of everything I eat.

Frozen blueberries - is like fucking dessert. 99 cent store had them, I washed and froze them. I should have bought more. Just a tip for you guys - 99 cent store gets all sorts of shit randomly. Luckily hit pass by on the way back from the gym in the morning - when they are getting their new shipments.

[berserk]

(03-09-2014 11:42 AM)Kaizen Wrote:  

did my first IF yesterday...(11pm friday-4pm saturday)

I like it.

You really appreciate food after a fast. Each bite is a different experience.

Did you experience a want for different foods than normal? What kind of food were you hungry after?

[Bilboswaggins]

Glycogen stores shouldn't really become a problem if you're doing the recomposition protocol as MB himself has laidd out, this means doing 3x high intensity trainings RPT style, doing a massive refeed in conjuction with training days and going low-carb and low cal on rest days. Also, some people may forget that pre-workout eating in moderation is still helpful, altho I for one stick to fasted workouts.

If strength is still decreasing, you're either training with too much volume thus not being able to recover or nutrition-wise you're not being in an anabolical enough state on workout days (aka go through the roof with calories, stay low-fat and high carb).

[Monty Brown]

Are you guys going to the gym before, during, or after the 6 hour window?

[samsamsam]

General question for those who do IF. I hear mixed things about eating during IF. Some say eat as much as you want, some say you still need to watch your calories. I have been trying to watch my calories, trying to lean up.

@Monty Brown,

I hit the gym in the AM before my eating window. I take some green tea pills, on occasion maybe some C4 (bought at it costco need to use it eventually) right before going to the gym.

So when I am done lifting I can feed my muscles. My eating window is from 8 to 4. I try and make sure I eat something at 4.

[Fortitudinal]

Ha, Ive been doing this for years without knowing. Combination of poor, busy and trying to eat paleo. It has worked for me, definitely gives you a better appreciation for every bite you take, and you become a little more tuned in with what you eat.
I've been under 20% for years and years . . . a decade even. Very hard to get fat for me.
I guess genetics helps as well, but eating habits must have made a huge difference too ( I eat like an animal when I do eat).

Poverty does teach a lot. . . and has mixed blessings. Whaddayouknow.

[Clint Barton]

Its best to have a general idea of your macros and calories. Just think about it this way: if someone does IF with a maintenance caloric intake of 2500 calories, but is eating 3000+ every day, they are NOT going to lose weight, and most likely actually gain fat depending on macros and how hard they are working in the gym.

Weigh things in the beginning and once you have an idea of what the macros and calories are in what you can eat, you can just eyeball.

I have a maintenance of 2500 calories and eat +10% on lifting days (3x) a week, and -30% on rest days (4x) a week, per rippedbody.jp

Workout days(3x a week) : 2700 calories eat 150-175g protein, 400g carbs, <40g fat, majority of carbs post workout

Rest days: 1700 calories: eat 150-175g protein, <100g carbs, 80-100g fat

I'm not too anal about it anymore because I can eyeball and use rules of thumb like a pound of lean meat is about 100g of protein. A cup of cooked rice is 200 calories and about 45g carbs, blah blah blah.

Tips:
1) Try to plan your meals for the day, either on paper or in your head. Hit the macros and get close to your caloric #s for the day. This shouldn't be too difficult since you are only eating 1-3 meals a day on IF.
2) Keep a tub of whey protein at home and at work. Easy way to get closer to your macros when you can down 50-60g in one drink.
3) Track your weight and take pics weekly, and compare against your lifts. If you aren't losing weight and your lifts are not declining(or even going up), you have a choice to make: are you ok with the slowed progress or potential body recomposition, or are you strictly going for a cut? If you are cutting, you need to adjust your macros and calories (down).
4) Don't worry about eating at the exact times. My usual eating window is 12p-8p. Sometimes its 2p-8p, or 3p-10p. This will make it easier adhere to so you can fit your schedule and social life.
5) For those who are serious about cutting, drop the alcohol. Alcohol is pretty much empty calories that can fuck up your caloric intake and macros, and they break the fasting window if you are drinking late night.

Good luck.

(03-16-2014 02:38 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

General question for those who do IF. I hear mixed things about eating during IF. Some say eat as much as you want, some say you still need to watch your calories. I have been trying to watch my calories, trying to lean up.

@Monty Brown,

I hit the gym in the AM before my eating window. I take some green tea pills, on occasion maybe some C4 (bought at it costco need to use it eventually) right before going to the gym.

So when I am done lifting I can feed my muscles. My eating window is from 8 to 4. I try and make sure I eat something at 4.

[bacan]

I've been doing IF for over a week and having really good results and enjoying it so far

One question.. Can you eat something during the "fast" that has practically no calories like spinach if you just want to fill your stomach a bit?

[Wreckingball]

(03-09-2014 09:40 AM)kosko Wrote:  

The only thing that may suffer is is your glycogen stores. Start making note of strength on a day like chest/push (if your doing weightlifting with this), because a lot of dudes will run thin on carbs while on IF and the body will burn through it's stores. That can effect strength and also if your running really low on calories your body will start grabbing at your muscles for energy and not just fat.

The only other thing that IF might cause in some is stress on your adrenals. If your spiked the hell up on energy from it then adjust take windows, workouts, etc to not be so hyped, especially around bedtime. That is something I hard to work with during my hardcore IF days.

I've noticed lack of strenght in my bench and squat when training in a fasted state or lowcarb.
I have been strugling going over 55Kg (abit more than 110lbs), but now im restricting less carbs and im at 65 without major difficulties. My weight is now 72-73Kg.

[samsamsam]

(03-28-2014 07:43 PM)Wreckingball Wrote:  

(03-09-2014 09:40 AM)kosko Wrote:  

The only thing that may suffer is is your glycogen stores. Start making note of strength on a day like chest/push (if your doing weightlifting with this), because a lot of dudes will run thin on carbs while on IF and the body will burn through it's stores. That can effect strength and also if your running really low on calories your body will start grabbing at your muscles for energy and not just fat.

The only other thing that IF might cause in some is stress on your adrenals. If your spiked the hell up on energy from it then adjust take windows, workouts, etc to not be so hyped, especially around bedtime. That is something I hard to work with during my hardcore IF days.

I've noticed lack of strenght in my bench and squat when training in a fasted state or lowcarb.
I have been strugling going over 55Kg (abit more than 110lbs), but now im restricting less carbs and im at 65 without major difficulties. My weight is now 72-73Kg.

I was dealing with that a little also. I was taking some green tea pills before lifting.

But now I am taking some whey protein to help give me some energy while lifting and some C4 that I bought from Costco a while ago (gives me energy).

I ordered some items based on MikeCF's podcast that i am looking forward to trying.

http://dangerandplay.com/2014/03/18/ever...fraid-ask/

Listen to it - Mike talks about he lifted bad without carbs even when he was doing IF. I think it was this podcast.

I ordered some glycofuse which seems to do some good stuff to help feed the muscles while lifting.

[kosko]

Your body has to adjust to it. What I did to adjust to help my body train fasted was just to eat about 9 dates before my workout. Your body will use 100% of the stuff aside from its fibre within minutes for fuel. It has a high GI index and is one of the few if only foods allowed by Muslims during their religious fasts. It's a quick jolt of carbs for your system.

Also Aminos would help due the same thing and at meat provide your muscles with enough energy to bot fatigue to quickly during your workout.

[Checkmat]

Leangains creator Martin Berkhan has his clients train fasted, aside from 10g of BCAA's consumed 15 minutes prior to training. This is muscle-sparing because it provides a fuel source besides glycogen, I believe.

More information here:

http://www.leangains.com/2010/05/early-m...ining.html

Quote:

My first concern was that results would be compromised if the post-workout meal was pushed back several hours. I haven't seen any trend, such as lack of progress or loss of strength and muscle mass, to indicate that this is the case. The results are on par with those obtained with the other protocols.

Consuming BCAAs every other hour through the fast is sufficient to keep protein synthesis stimulated and prevent protein breakdown. If protein intake is completely omitted, it would undoubtedly affect results negatively. Thus the compromise of ingesting BCAA pre- and post-workout through the fast, before the real post-workout meal, which is initiated at the usual time of the feeding phase.

Will we still derive the benefits from regular fasting if we consume small amounts of protein throughout the fast post-workout? Yes. If carbs are omitted, the increased insulin sensitivity will quickly bring back basal insulin to fasted state levels despite consuming 120 calories worth of fairly insulinogenic amino acids. The fasted state is almost fully maintained post-workout.

(...)

By consuming small amounts of BCAA through the fasted state we are stimulating synthesis and halting breakdown. A few hours later, when protein synthesis is increasing, we enter the fed state. The latency seen with protein synthesis in response to training, and the fact that we have amino acids (BCAA) in circulation pre- and post-workout, goes a long way in explaining why clients following this protocol get equal results to those following other protocols.

[SteveCR]

I've been doing IF ever since I was a little kid, and now my 3 yr old son does the same thing as well. It's natural to us (as I suspect it is for a lot of people). We're just never hungry for breakfast. In a nutshell, that's all IF is. Don't eat breakfast.