[Newb#3]

(07-05-2012 04:11 PM)kosko Wrote:  

My only issue is that in that 8hr window at first I am a mad man whom is looking for food but by 4pm I am not really that hungry and just will have a light supper. I am still low key worried about not getting enough food in me to keep my muscle mass. Anybody have any tips on this?

Are you hitting the weights hard as well? When is your feeding window typically?

Try making most of your feeding window after your workout. Just a small snack or meal before, and then train, PWO shake, large meal, small meal, then sleep.

When I tried it, I had a window from 11am-7pm approx., And I'd train at around 12 (in between my classes). I'd have a small snack at the beginning of the feeding window, and then train, and then have a protein shake right after which would keep me somewhat satisfied until I got home and at a big meal. Then one small meal at the end of the window if I could.

I didn't have appetite issue when doing this, and although I wasn't getting in enough calories, it wasn't due to appetite but rather time constraints (hard to eat a lot in that window of time).

[AlphaTravel]

Just looked at the link in the initial post and it's interesting. Talks about why eating breakfast makes a lot of people MORE hungry, it's something I've noticed too. When I get up I'm never hungry, the thought of eating makes me a bit nauseous, yet I've always been under the impression that breakfast was the 'most important meal of the day' so often force something down. When I eat breakfast I'm starving again an hour later and need to eat. When I don't eat breakfast I can easily get to afternoon before I get hungry.

[slubu]

I've been doing leangains for about a month now and I definitely noticed a change. Although I cheat a bit with alcohol at nights, for the most part I stick to the routine. I also found it highly more effective if I start my window right after I workout, which for me is in the morning. Before I was lifting at 7am then waiting until 12 to eat and it wasn't that effective.

It is very hard to eat all that food in a 8 hour window though. I haven't done the 24 hour cycles yet, I will next week though and continuing forward.

[kosko]

(07-05-2012 06:15 PM)Newb#3 Wrote:  

(07-05-2012 04:11 PM)kosko Wrote:  

My only issue is that in that 8hr window at first I am a mad man whom is looking for food but by 4pm I am not really that hungry and just will have a light supper. I am still low key worried about not getting enough food in me to keep my muscle mass. Anybody have any tips on this?

Are you hitting the weights hard as well? When is your feeding window typically?

Try making most of your feeding window after your workout. Just a small snack or meal before, and then train, PWO shake, large meal, small meal, then sleep.

When I tried it, I had a window from 11am-7pm approx., And I'd train at around 12 (in between my classes). I'd have a small snack at the beginning of the feeding window, and then train, and then have a protein shake right after which would keep me somewhat satisfied until I got home and at a big meal. Then one small meal at the end of the window if I could.

I didn't have appetite issue when doing this, and although I wasn't getting in enough calories, it wasn't due to appetite but rather time constraints (hard to eat a lot in that window of time).

My window is usually 12-8pm add or minus a hour for starting some days.

I suspect it was the supps I was taking since they require a lot of energy to break down and generally that takes place with a shake or a meal prior. I am trying agian tonight the pasta and workout after my window to see if I spazz out again at the gym.

But your routine you posted seems like it would be ideal for me to work into. I am going to have to think how to work things into school and such. I am eating evrey 2 hours (I cook 80% of my meals from scratch so a 30min prep-cook time, plus eating and doing dishes, after a quick rest its time to do it all again) now and though its satisfying it is very annoying I would like to do 2 large meals per day versus 3-4 which I am doing now.

[3extra]

(07-05-2012 06:28 PM)AlphaTravel Wrote:  

Just looked at the link in the initial post and it's interesting. Talks about why eating breakfast makes a lot of people MORE hungry, it's something I've noticed too. When I get up I'm never hungry, the thought of eating makes me a bit nauseous, yet I've always been under the impression that breakfast was the 'most important meal of the day' so often force something down. When I eat breakfast I'm starving again an hour later and need to eat. When I don't eat breakfast I can easily get to afternoon before I get hungry.

For the lat 2 months I've been skipping breakfast and have had the same results.

I never eat breakfast anymore.

Unless hungover.

[kosko]

Progress Report:

Okay so I am now a month in on this IF and damn surprised when I weighed myself today that I am 12lbs leaner than a month prior. I am 100% sold on this IF and now have committed to making it a mainstay in my lifestyle going forward.

Also to note my issues of lifting fasted are now over. I guess I needed to ease into it to force my body to adjust, my prior posts noted how weak and dead I felt training fasted so I had to tweak things to reach this goal. What I did was just scale back what I ate prior to lifting to the point where the past few work outs all I ate were a about 5 Dates (great pre-workout food...insanely high GI) To the point where I my last two workouts were clean, pure empty stomach to the point where today I did an intense Leg workout with Deadlifts and all on a 22hr fast. I did indeed feel dizzy towards the end but I just lightened the load and did more reps and I was fine, energy was not the issue, heart felt like it was going to explode it was beatign so fast. I did and still do take a pre-workout of Caffeine and B-12 and will continue to do so but the food/energy issue is long gone.

Anybody on the fence about IF should toss it aside, this shit is great!

I love bragging to the fat females I work with whom struggle with weight. They hate that a fit and lean guy like me can drop weight like nothing, but they are so dense and dumb I tell them diets wont work and I am very blunt in telling them they will gain any weight they loose back. They fail to reject what cosmo and Oprah and what not tells them about small meals, while they see me crush down a poutine and 3 hamburgers with some carrot sticks and loose weight. HAHA!

Thanks for the tips I picked up in this thread I took into account little tid-bits from you RVF members.

I don't know how much more weight I am going to loose but I think 4-5 more pounds and I will be strait.

[Hades]

When I ate all the time, I felt like shit all the time.

When I skipped eating for 3 meals one day per week, and eat only one meal (a 3 hour "overeating phase") every night, I burn fat like a bastard. Since I only seriously eat once a day, I can afford to clean up my diet and make a meal that's healthy. I definitely enjoy eating 1-2 pounds of meat per overeating session. I'm also significantly more muscular than I was a month ago, and at least 5-8 pounds leaner. I look good.

Intermittent fasting is the shit. It's very important to drink roughly a gallon of water per day though, or you will struggle to lose fat (water helps the liver process fat and hormones).
Ever since I have fasted from Sunday to Monday night, I have not had a shitty Monday. I'm just so energetic.

[Black Quixote]

Is this recommended for athletes? Because I can imagine the energy levels wouldn't exactly be phenomenal for athletes.

Disclaimer: I know only about paleo diet and sports training for six years for myself. I will admit I know a sparing amount about nutrition.

[chyamor]

Do the hard core fasting like Muslims are doing this month. No eating or drinking (including water) from sunrise to sunset.

[Architekt]

I swear I see the word "fisting" every time... I think I'm going to start on this real soon. I've been cutting back and skipping meals when I'm not actually hungry, so I don't see this causing too much trouble in concentration/energy levels. I also drink a large volume of water during the week.

[ManAbout]

I see some guys talking about completely fasted workouts. Is that optimal?

I am hearing conflicting opinions.

[ElJefe]

let's see some numbers on bodycomposition. All this talk is rubbish. STATS!

[MikeCF]

(08-03-2012 11:18 AM)ManAbout Wrote:  

I see some guys talking about completely fasted workouts. Is that optimal?

I am hearing conflicting opinions.

Diet is like game.

You can't live your life based on what other guys say.

You gotta try out different ways.

Then settle on what works for you.

[MikeCF]

(08-03-2012 11:28 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

let's see some numbers on bodycomposition. All this talk is rubbish. STATS!

It's not that difficult for a man to determine if his bodyfat is decreasing.

Are your pants looser? Can you see veins and striations? Do people say, "Whoa, you lose weight?"

[ManAbout]

(08-03-2012 11:28 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

let's see some numbers on bodycomposition. All this talk is rubbish. STATS!

My weight has gone up, while my waist has remained the same and my muscles are more defined. That's all the STATS! I need.

[WesternCancer]

Yeah I've been doing IF for a few months (half-assedly at times) lost 2 inches on my waist. gained 1.5 inches on my arms and 2 inches on my chest. I've also stayed the same weight. I can see the beginnings of a 6-pack coming through too.

[Jackhammer]

I don't care about stats, nor do I count macros.

After using IF for about 5 months, my clothes fit really well (I always wear stuff a bit tighter than usual, and when you're a bit chubby, it really shows), my arms/shoulders look thick and strong, my waist has shrunk, my body fat has reduced, fuck even my hair looks better.

After doing IF, everything about me looks better. I will never go back.

[UgSlayer]

Anybody have any experience with intermittent fasting and sports practice? I train jiu jitsu and muay thai and want to cut down to around 160 walking weight so I can fight at light weight then maybe slim down a bit more later on to fight at featherweight. I currently walk around at 175 to 180 depending on what time of day it is and how much I've had to eat/drink.

Never tried IF, but would I have enough energy to get through conditioning, drills and live training for 2 or 3 hours without collapsing before having my first meal? Also, how long did it take your bodies to adjust to intermittent fasting ie not feeling hungry, irritable, or out of it during the day.

[ManAbout]

(08-03-2012 02:19 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

Never tried IF, but would I have enough energy to get through conditioning, drills and live training for 2 or 3 hours without collapsing before having my first meal? Also, how long did it take your bodies to adjust to intermittent fasting ie not feeling hungry, irritable, or out of it during the day.

You don't have to train fasted. You can still do an IF of 16 hours fasting and 8 hours feeding window. In fact, Martin on leangains.com, doesn't do fasted workouts with his clients who are training.

One of the protocols he uses is first meal of the day(usually following a 16 hour fast), then a workout within 3 to 4 hours of that meal, followed by the largest meal of the day where you consume most of your calories.

[kosko]

(08-03-2012 02:19 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

Anybody have any experience with intermittent fasting and sports practice? I train jiu jitsu and muay thai and want to cut down to around 160 walking weight so I can fight at light weight then maybe slim down a bit more later on to fight at featherweight. I currently walk around at 175 to 180 depending on what time of day it is and how much I've had to eat/drink.

Never tried IF, but would I have enough energy to get through conditioning, drills and live training for 2 or 3 hours without collapsing before having my first meal? Also, how long did it take your bodies to adjust to intermittent fasting ie not feeling hungry, irritable, or out of it during the day.

I think Hershel Walker managed quite fine. He has been doing IF for over 30 years and it gave him a Heisman trophy and a UFC career in his 40's.

He only eats one (large) meal a day at supper time. And did this throughout his college, NFL, and UFC career. He is 50 and looks great.

For me the hunger pains went away after a week. In the 2nd week I was forgetting to eat sometimes because my mind/body was just not craving food. Some days my body gets crazy hungry early but I think that is when I don't give my self enough calories the day prior. I had to transition into training fasted and now I have no problem with it.

Energy is never a problem though if anything you will be even more weird. In the first 2 week I had issues with sleep because I was always hyper from IF.

For athletes you would just have to tailor your eating window to suit your needs. Eventually you get used to training and conditioning fasted but to ease into it time you eating window to start earlier maybe to give you fuel to train and just end your eating window earlier.

So maybe have a dense nutrient breakfast/first meal that is not to heavy, protein shakes, a avocado, fish and rice something like that then go train. then have a stupid large meal after you train and cut yourself off.

I really believe IF is more in tuned with the classic way humans use to eat. I believe humans only ate once or twice per day with the rest of the time devoting energy to actually gather and prepare that food.

IF is ideal and something you can do long term for the rest of your life. I am not sold on Paleo because if you break down Paleo for what it is it offers your body nothing good in the long run. It will eventually turn into a problem down the road while IF keeps your body in better condition longer since you still get all proper nutrients and marcos just in a more efficient manner.

[dk902]

(08-03-2012 01:08 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(08-03-2012 11:28 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

let's see some numbers on bodycomposition. All this talk is rubbish. STATS!

It's not that difficult for a man to determine if his bodyfat is decreasing.

Are your pants looser? Can you see veins and striations? Do people say, "Whoa, you lose weight?"

Never been a body fat-percentage measurer. I go by mirror.

That's what happened to me since I've been on lean gains. Pants are looser and can now see the veins on my biceps which is cool.

It's surprising how much energy you have when train fasted. Only time I have something to eat is on squat day and will have a protein shake before a workout.

I sometimes have a huge breakfast after a particularly heavy workout if I feel I need it. I don't think it's a deal braker. Other than that my first meal is 1pm most days.

[MikeCF]

(08-03-2012 02:19 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

Anybody have any experience with intermittent fasting and sports practice? I train jiu jitsu and muay thai and want to cut down to around 160 walking weight so I can fight at light weight then maybe slim down a bit more later on to fight at featherweight. I currently walk around at 175 to 180 depending on what time of day it is and how much I've had to eat/drink.

Never tried IF, but would I have enough energy to get through conditioning, drills and live training for 2 or 3 hours without collapsing before having my first meal? Also, how long did it take your bodies to adjust to intermittent fasting ie not feeling hungry, irritable, or out of it during the day.

I don't train fasted.

I was doing IF before I ever heard of this LeanGains guy. (Jelly I didn't start doing what he's doing, as he's very successful.)

I always ate before training.

After seeing this thread, I checked out his work. I trained fasted a few times. Felt like shit.

If you're training multiple times a day, though, IF doesn't really work.

I used to train 2x a day. One MMA/BJJ workout and then a weight workout, separated by 4-6 hours.

If you're training hard, IF probably isn't right for you.

(Though, as with all things, experiment on your own. One man's truth is not your truth.)

[kosko]

^You have to ease into it. You current routine would fit in nicely you would just have to figure out when to eat your meals. Your body does not need as much energy as I used to believe 6 dates is enough to power a workout for me and those will burn off by the time I am done. I used to have mammoth meals pre-workout because I thought it would power me through and it does at time but its all mental. Now I am just mentally fucked up and pheening to go burn energy in the food or not. The transition period is key once your brain buys into it you become a animal .

[ManAbout]

(08-03-2012 03:40 PM)kosko Wrote:  

Your body does not need as much energy as I used to believe 6 dates is enough to power a workout for me and those will burn off by the time I am done.

But then, you are not working out fasted are you?

The whole point of a fasted workout is to use the fat stores to fuel your activity.

[MikeCF]

(08-03-2012 03:40 PM)kosko Wrote:  

^You have to ease into it. You current routine would fit in nicely you would just have to figure out when to eat your meals. Your body does not need as much energy as I used to believe 6 dates is enough to power a workout for me and those will burn off by the time I am done. I used to have mammoth meals pre-workout because I thought it would power me through and it does at time but its all mental. Now I am just mentally fucked up and pheening to go burn energy in the food or not. The transition period is key once your brain buys into it you become a animal .

You eat six dates before a 90-120 minute Brazilian jiu jitsu session?