[kosko]

(08-03-2012 03:48 PM)ManAbout Wrote:  

(08-03-2012 03:40 PM)kosko Wrote:  

Your body does not need as much energy as I used to believe 6 dates is enough to power a workout for me and those will burn off by the time I am done.

But then, you are not working out fasted are you?

The whole point of a fasted workout is to use the fat stores to fuel your activity.

I do now but I had to ease into it. What I am saying is that the idea of a big pre-workout is more mental then physical.

Example here are pictures of what I ussually ate pre-workout:


Heaping plate of Whole pasta

+

@ PB & J

+


I used to waste so much time timming my meals that I would be eating for 2 hours prior to lifiting.

Then I scaled down to:



@ PB & J

+


Then down to



+

[img][/img]


Then too:




TO NOW:

[NOTHING]


My energy has not digressed from whatever I ate. It was a matter of getting my mind to adjust to getting energy from other places.

(08-03-2012 03:57 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(08-03-2012 03:40 PM)kosko Wrote:  

^You have to ease into it. You current routine would fit in nicely you would just have to figure out when to eat your meals. Your body does not need as much energy as I used to believe 6 dates is enough to power a workout for me and those will burn off by the time I am done. I used to have mammoth meals pre-workout because I thought it would power me through and it does at time but its all mental. Now I am just mentally fucked up and pheening to go burn energy in the food or not. The transition period is key once your brain buys into it you become a animal .

You eat six dates before a 90-120 minute Brazilian jiu jitsu session?

I lift. But you underestimate the power of Dates they are easily the most natural energy dense foods on earth. There is a reason why Muslims incorporate them into Ramadan. A Dates GI is as high if not higher than white sugar....

Plus

Hershel Walker eats nothing to doing that type of training:



Just get used to it. Its all mental more than anything.

[Kingp1n]

This seems interesting. The only way to find out is to give it a try. Are there any recommendations for a supplement product list?

[Hades]

(08-03-2012 04:49 PM)Kingp1n Wrote:  

This seems interesting. The only way to find out is to give it a try. Are there any recommendations for a supplement product list?

All I supplement is vitamin D. About 5000 units per day. It's hard to get enough sunlight. Anything else you probably don't need if your diet is clean.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Interesting topic here. I started 2 weeks ago fasting as part of the Ramadan. Basically not eating nor drinking anything from sunrise to sunset. I did it first and foremost for religious reasons bit i noticed that in 2 weeks ive lost almost 20 pounds, going from 200 pounds to 179.8 as of last night.

I would eat once a day, at night around 9pm and nothing before. Before going to bed at night around midnight - 1am, I would get a slight snack. So going for about 20-21 hours without drinking or eating anything.

Throughout the day, im not hungry nor thirsrkty at all. I've got to admit that the last hour before breaking the fast is challenging specially with the smell of delicious dishes being prepared at home, but nothing that cannot be overcome.

So far this has been the easieast and fastest way to lose weight. Im considerimg extending this fast to a couple more months till i get baxk to ideal weight at 170 pounds.

Jyst wanted to share a different perspective to losing weight. Yes the first 2-3 days are hard ad the body adapts to this drastic change. But once that is done the rest is very straight
forward.

Anyone else in here who is fasting has been experiencing something similar?

[Hannibal]

Read the book "Eat Stop Eat" by Brad Pilon.

I just fast once a day. I eat nothing after Sunday 5PM and I eat a good sized meal Monday at 5PM. While you fast, you'll feel more energetic and awake. That's the epinephrine and norepinephrine coursing through your veins.

I've also lost 10 lbs since I started ~2.5 months ago. Since I don't have sophisticated technology, I don't know if it's all fat, but I'm going to keep doing it. When I started I definitely had a spare tire but I've now got a 4 pack going on.

During the fast, I recommend drinking coffee and lots of water to quell your hunger. I didn't have a hard time getting used to it, but I also spent the hardest parts of the fast while I'm asleep. I read up on the bulletproof executive that you can eat fat during a fast and it won't ruin it too much, since you're burning fat anyways. He sells his "upgraded coffee" that has some kind of superior butter infused with it, but I just throw a butter pad into my coffee if I feel too hungry. I only tried that once though, I tasted the butter grease all day and it wasn't too pleasant.

The biggest caveat here is that you must work out at least 3 times a week to burn excess glycogen in your muscles. Supposedly it makes your body switch to fat when it's running on empty.

[kosko]

Intermittent Fasting Progress Report #2

Okay so I will continue to try and post progress for you guys each month on how I am doing with IF. It is 2months in now, into the 3rd month. Two months + of solid IF with fasted training 90% of the time.

Last month I lost 5lbs but this is deceiving because I do feel and look bigger and I feel that I did also put on some muscle as well. I was able to con a free BF% TANITA calculation at my gym by talking up the cute blonde trainer whom I went to grade school with (Damn I should of tried to pick her up but I couldn't stop laughing in my head at how ugly she used to be back in the day haha). So even better is now I have a stat composition for you guys as well. This was my first time doing this so the numbers we're surprising to me to say the least.

Kosko TANITA ® Stats:

Height: 5 8'
Weight: 154.5

BF%: 17.8
BMR: 1746 kal


Things that surprised me is that I thought in my head I was much lower in BF% I always thought I was at 14%. But 14% is ripped to shits which I am not (still ripped though), but I always assumed kats whom were ripped to shits were below 10%. 12%-14% is the ideal range one of the dude trainers told me.

My target areas for fat are my stomach which is at the point where you can see abs but faintly. The majority of my fat is in my rear and legs I have always had massive leg muscles but also a good chunk of fat in my rear. Bitches love it but its a pain in the ass ...*drumroll* ...to loose.


Next I was surprised how many calories I burn through a day. My metabolism seems to be back up to normal, but it is even more crazy (almost scary) to think my metabolism used to be even faster then it was now. I would say I am only 80% from my metabolic prime where I could eat a cow for breakfast and shit it out by supper time.

What I took away from the BMR calculations is that I need more food. I was only getting 1700-1900 calories a day and with IF and my hunger not being as strong I would usually eat one large meal a day but it is a pain to eat 2000kal in one sitting with typical dense foods. So I will have to incorporate more healthy fats into my meals to bump up my calorie intake. I definitively feel I lost a little bit of muscle due to my low calorie intake.

IF meal example:

I prefer two large meals of a 1000+ calories so this is what I would eat typically in one or two sittings:

Monday's meals

1st
8 Eggs + 1 can of tuna (w/ 6 cloves of garlic)
2cups of Oatmeal + 1cup of Flax meal w/ two cups of blue berries
6 Dates
Protein Shake

2nd
8 Chicken Drumsticks
4 Baked potatoes
Half a sweet potato
1 package of frozen Spinach
3 Large Carrots
Protein shake w/ 2 cups milk

Its not a lot of food calorie wise when you break it down. This will clock you only at about 1800.

IF and Lifestyle 2months + in:

I don't have a iron clad window some days i'll fast for 20hrs, some days for 16, etc. This has been good and bad, right now my window has been pushed up quite late to where I am eating 2 large meals from 8pm-12am. The drawback of this is sleep as my stomach is rolling round and I can't get settled in for a good nights sleep which has been a off and on and my only major issue with IF since I started. I need to roll back my window and fix my sleep issues asap. ZMA helps but my sleep times are are off to enjoy the full benefits of ZMA on a empty stomach.

Lifestyle with friends has not changed much. If I go for wings and some beer with friends I usually just push up my windows and just have a small meal prior so I do not order the whole restaurant. Booze is booze I am not going to cry over it, I ussually only drink one night a week lately anyways so not a big deal I feel, and hell I need those extra calories anyways.

All in all I am still committed to IF as I like what it has done to me. Now that I have some stats I can start to think hard about how I want to tweak things. I was going to end my "cut" this September but now I am mulling it as I want to try and reach a bf% of 14. I hope to do this before winter and then start ease up calories while it gets cold.


Stay ripped
Kosko

[Deif]

For those of you who are interested, I did intermittent fasting for four months. I read all of Berkhan's articles and read Brad Pilon's Eat Stop Eat, so I'm familiar with the science behind the method.

That said, I wasn't very impressed with the rate of fat loss. It was an interesting feeling to fast 16 hours a day, as it really sharpened my senses but, at the end of the day, it's the results that matter. Did I retain my muscle mass? Yeah. Was fat stripped off my body at breakneck speed as advertised? No.

I'm not a big fan of Martin Berkhan's writing. This isn't to knock on his physique or professional accomplishments. He has an elite-level physique and has gone through hell and back to get to where he is. That said, the majority of his work is just rehashing the data culled by fitness experts Lyle McDonald and Brad Pilon.

I decided to go to Berkhan's source material, Lyle McDonald, and started reading his books. I came across a method for maximizing muscle retention while cutting fat which he called the "Ultimate Diet 2.0." Cheesy name, yeah. However, this is one of the most wild and difficult things I've undertaken as an athlete. I dropped 10 lbs of fat in 7 weeks while retaining all of my muscle. I got the same results in 7 weeks on this program that I got from 4 months doing intermittent fasting.

Is UD2 hard as fuck? Yes. Is it for everybody? Absolutely not. You shouldn't even be doing this diet if you're not 15% bodyfat or lower. But does it produce results? Like lightning.

You really shouldn't even be doing leangains if you're not 12-15% bodyfat or lower in my opinion. The results will be too slow and you're better off with the good ol' fashioned caloric deficit.

[slubu]

Want to give us some cliffs notes on the UD2.0?

[MikeCF]

Intermittent Fasting isn't a diet to me, it's how I've eaten for the past several years. I adjust the calorie intake relative to my goals and lifestyles.

[Deif]

(09-05-2012 06:24 PM)slubu Wrote:  

Want to give us some cliffs notes on the UD2.0?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fOumSEsbn4

Watch that video for the breakdown of the program.

[kosko]

(09-05-2012 06:27 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Intermittent Fasting isn't a diet to me, it's how I've eaten for the past several years. I adjust the calorie intake relative to my goals and lifestyles.

Its a lifestyle choice. I subscribe the the philosophic reasons behind it. Our bodies break down from stress and work so it makes sense to make its biggest physical stresses (eating) more efficient.

[Deif]

(09-05-2012 07:13 PM)kosko Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 06:27 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Intermittent Fasting isn't a diet to me, it's how I've eaten for the past several years. I adjust the calorie intake relative to my goals and lifestyles.

Its a lifestyle choice. I subscribe the the philosophic reasons behind it. Our bodies break down from stress and work so it makes sense to make its biggest physical stresses (eating) more efficient.

I never found consuming my caloric needs in a mere 8 hours to be "efficient."

And I'd hardly call the thermic effect of food a stressor. To each his own, I guess.

[IainMuirs]

I've been intermittently fasting recently though I never intended to. I needed to lose some weight so went on a semi-liquid diet where I'd only have liquids (smoothies or soup) during the day then eat a normal dinner at night. I did that for 4 days and lost 5 pounds, those 4 days kind of killed my appetite and I didn't bother to have anything for the next few days apart from dinner. Lost another 5 pounds. Even though I'd lost all the weight I wanted to within less than 2 weeks I didn't want to go back to eating 'normally' as eating first thing in the morning just makes me hungry all day, I can't stop eating if I start. So I got into the habit of only eating in the evening, having dinner and often nothing else or just a small snack if I got hungry later. Didn't find it difficult and was quite enjoying being able to control my hunger. Decided recently I'd try and fast for 24hrs if I could, managed it no problem at all. Think I'll continue to fast for 15-24hrs a couple of days a week, it's not difficult and I think it does me good.

[FretDancer]

Great thread.

I started reading a little about this, and I must say I am heavily tempted to try it. But I am just currently weighting ~140 pounds and I gotta say I am scared of loosing weight, since all my life I've been skinny until now. I am scared how my body will react to this.

Would love to become ripped and get some great abs. Like I said I am heavily tempted to start, but I still need something more to convince me, but I am not sure what that is...

Advice is greatly appreciated....

[Deif]

(09-05-2012 10:23 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Great thread.

I started reading a little about this, and I must say I am heavily tempted to try it. But I am just currently weighting ~140 pounds and I gotta say I am scared of loosing weight, since all my life I've been skinny until now. I am scared how my body will react to this.

Would love to become ripped and get some great abs. Like I said I am heavily tempted to start, but I still need something more to convince me, but I am not sure what that is...

Advice is greatly appreciated....

If you weigh 140 lbs, you have no business going on a cut. Start lifting, benefit from the beginner gains, then go from there. If you get on a good program (i.e. starting strength, stronglifts 5x5), then you won't need to cut straight away. Once you plateau on your compound lifts (bench press, squat, deadlift, pull ups), then start thinking about whether to cut or bulk.

[FretDancer]

Well I've been working out for more than 3 years, I've had my on and off's. I still preserve very good shapes, although theres alot of room for improvement for centain areas of the body.

So it makes me wonder, is this IF only for bulky people? I still don't know much about this whole topic.

[Deif]

(09-05-2012 11:14 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

Well I've been working out for more than 3 years, I've had my on and off's. I still preserve very good shapes, although theres alot of room for improvement for centain areas of the body.

So it makes me wonder, is this IF only for bulky people? I still don't know much about this whole topic.

How tall are you if you don't consider yourself skinny at 140 lbs?

IF is ideally for people who are already lean and looking to get into extreme levels of rippedness (i.e. below 10% bodyfat).

[FretDancer]

I am 1.75 meters tall.

[Deif]

Definitely consider getting on a beginner weight lifting program.

[FitAsFuck]

I have quite a lot of experience with IF. I have been following this philosofy for 1.5 years now and the ultra short summary: I love it! Contributing to this thread 4 pages in will propably increase the risk of saying something that has already been stated, but here goes.

I have been training for around 12 years and therefore had quite a good foundation before experimenting with IF. I had done quite a few diets before hand and all with great results. I am 5'9 and around 200 pounds and would describe my self as endomorph. But with IF I have been able to keep bodyfat at around or below 10% for the last 1.5 years.

What really sets IF apart for me, is the fact that I can maintain low bodyfat levels, keep my muscles and not feeling hungry all the time. I have a really strong appetite, and the larger meals suits me.

I will make the bold statement and say that I am walking proof that you will not loose your muscles by following IF. Not if you are Endo/Mesomorph nevertheless. Ectomorphs will propably struggle with the larger meals. But try it for a month and see, like anything in life, there is no one-fits-all. If you are loosing muscles instead of fat, and cannot alter the food intake to make up for it, then maybe this is not for you. But never be afraid to make your own conclusions based on experimentation.

[Deif]

(09-06-2012 02:14 AM)FitAsFuck Wrote:  

I have quite a lot of experience with IF. I have been following this philosofy for 1.5 years now and the ultra short summary: I love it! Contributing to this thread 4 pages in will propably increase the risk of saying something that has already been stated, but here goes.

I have been training for around 12 years and therefore had quite a good foundation before experimenting with IF. I had done quite a few diets before hand and all with great results. I am 5'9 and around 200 pounds and would describe my self as endomorph. But with IF I have been able to keep bodyfat at around or below 10% for the last 1.5 years.

What really sets IF apart for me, is the fact that I can maintain low bodyfat levels, keep my muscles and not feeling hungry all the time. I have a really strong appetite, and the larger meals suits me.

I will make the bold statement and say that I am walking proof that you will not loose your muscles by following IF. Not if you are Endo/Mesomorph nevertheless. Ectomorphs will propably struggle with the larger meals. But try it for a month and see, like anything in life, there is no one-fits-all. If you are loosing muscles instead of fat, and cannot alter the food intake to make up for it, then maybe this is not for you. But never be afraid to make your own conclusions based on experimentation.

Are you taking steroids? How are you 5' 9'', 200 lbs, and 10% bodyfat? You should be playing professional sports if you have that much muscle.

[FitAsFuck]

(09-06-2012 03:05 AM)Deif Wrote:  

Are you taking steroids? How are you 5' 9'', 200 lbs, and 10% bodyfat? You should be playing professional sports if you have that much muscle.

No steroids or any other drugs, always been all natural.

There are not many professional sports, that rely only on net amount of muscles. Most require endless amounts of practice. If I had spend all the effort the last 14 years on a professional sport, I would propably be able to compete, but I have switched around quite a bit between several sports. And now I am aiming my energi more towards work than sports. Still not in any way neglecting my physical performance or appearance.

[Jazzman92]

http://lean-gains.org/

I like to use this site more because it breaks down everything you need to know in order to do lean gains style IF without all the extra info.

[Jaylow]

I did IF for about 6 months, which was conveniently at the same time where I was in the best shape of my life.

If you have a high physical labour job DO NOT do this. Even if you have a medium physical labour job I would not do IF.

I got used to IF quick and the only time I got hungry was around an hour before I scheduled myself to eat. Rest of the day before that was no problem. I had high energy throughout the day even though I was not eating.

No matter what you need to eat 30g protein and 30 carbs after a workout, regardless of IF, or you will lose muscle.

I would do my workouts in the morning, then have my 30g prot/carbs then fast for 10 or so hours.

Walnuts posts in this thread are retarded, you guys probably already figured that out.

[kosko]

I've been off IF for two months now. My fitness routines have been fucked up also, too much beer and all the rest. My weight hasn't ballooned up but my figure (to me) is fucked up. Bitches still loving it but I feel nasty so as of today I am back on IF full time.