[Chad Daring]

Has anyone here had experience with Intermittent Fasting (IF)?

Martin Berkhan at http://www.leangains.com is someone I follow via twitter and he has an entire site dedicated to this as a diet choice, a strength training eating plan, and a general way of life.

There are a lot of sites and info that show how well this works, I'm just curious if anyone has any experience with it first hand, and if so can I pick your brain a bit.


The plan I'm going to be starting is going to be as follows:

5a - Wake Up
6a - 2:30p - Work
2:30p - 2:45p - Whey Protein
3p - Enter Gym
4p - Leave Gym
5p - 10p - Feed (consisting of roughly 2000 calories, adjusted for workout intensity)


My plan is to go balls deep into this, sticking to whey for amino acids and extra protein, and Skinless boneless chicken breasts, probably grilled, and some kind of fresh frozen veggie (probably brussell sprouts because I like em)

Any input from anyone who's had experience?

[Donald Duck]

I am also interested in this. There's a thread on bodybuilding.com of a guy who had amazing success with it.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread...123&page=1

[Walnuts]

It sounds like horseshit to me.

Your body can't process 2000 calories all at once. A lot of it is going to end up being stored as fat.
Your body also can't store protein. Only use it when it needs it. If you take all your protein at once a lot of it is going to be wasted.

The above guy; if those are before and after pictures, he was already at low body fat, he just got bigger, mainly pecs.
He's in pretty good shape, he probably knows what's he's doing. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone.

That's my opinion on this.

[BortimusPrime]

I've been doing it for about a month and it is definitely nice if you're used to eating big meals, although you do still have to count calories as it's entirely possible to eat past your BMR+workout calories. It does take a little getting used to, although if you've been doing paleo odds are you aren't on an insulin rollercoaster and you won't go nuts from low blood sugar by fasting. Just drink a cup of coffee if you get hungry, works like a charm.

[Gixxermuscle]

(04-14-2012 03:18 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

It sounds like horseshit to me.

Your body can't process 2000 calories all at once. A lot of it is going to end up being stored as fat.
Your body also can't store protein. Only use it when it needs it. If you take all your protein at once a lot of it is going to be wasted.

The above guy; if those are before and after pictures, he was already at low body fat, he just got bigger, mainly pecs.
He's in pretty good shape, he probably knows what's he's doing. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone.

That's my opinion on this.

It is a very effective and convenient way of meal scheduling, not to mention many benefits to fasting and fasted training. You dont have to eat all your cals in a single sitting, you have a feeding window.

Strong broscience in your comment

[BortimusPrime]

(04-14-2012 03:18 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

It sounds like horseshit to me.

Your body can't process 2000 calories all at once. A lot of it is going to end up being stored as fat.
Your body also can't store protein. Only use it when it needs it. If you take all your protein at once a lot of it is going to be wasted.

The above guy; if those are before and after pictures, he was already at low body fat, he just got bigger, mainly pecs.
He's in pretty good shape, he probably knows what's he's doing. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone.

That's my opinion on this.

Unless you're only eating tiny snacks at frequent intervals any meal is going to have some portion of it stored as fat. You only get a couple hours of direct usage of energy from food while it's digesting. This is only an issue if you're eating so much that you don't burn off all the stored fat prior to the next meal.

[Walnuts]

Haha yes I guess it is broscience, like I said its just my opinion.

But I'm pretty sure that the human body can't store protein.

[WesternCancer]

I was on this for about a month. Lost 10 lbs and I really liked how it made me feel. My diet has gone to shit the past week or so due to exam stress/having to eat out due to a lack of time. I plan on getting back on the paleo/IF train come next week.

[MikeCF]

(04-14-2012 03:31 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Haha yes I guess it is broscience, like I said its just my opinion.

But I'm pretty sure that the human body can't store protein.

Your opinion is uninformed, and therefore doesn't matter.

Yes, the human body stores protein. What exactly do you think muscle tissue is comprised of?

Your attitude - "Even though I'm ignorant I'm going to post!" - is very feminine and unhelpful.

[Walnuts]

(04-14-2012 04:07 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(04-14-2012 03:31 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Haha yes I guess it is broscience, like I said its just my opinion.

But I'm pretty sure that the human body can't store protein.

Your opinion is uninformed, and therefore doesn't matter.

Yes, the human body stores protein. What exactly do you think muscle tissue is comprised of?

Your attitude - "Even though I'm ignorant I'm going to post!" - is very feminine and unhelpful.

That's not exactly stored. You missed my point.
The human body can't store excess protein.
If you eat 200grams of protein and don't work out, your body will not store it for use later. It's gone.
Got any rebuttals for that?

I'm not retarded despite what you may think. It doesn't take a genius to know that muscle is made of protein.

[rozayINTL]

A good friend of mine does the 1 meal a day thing and swears by it. It sounds crazy but apparently it gets results, and after a while it doesn't phase you at all.

Isn't that whey protein shit all synthetic? I had a roommate back in the day who pounded it back constantly. Seemed unhealthy

[WesternCancer]

(04-14-2012 03:18 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

It sounds like horseshit to me.

Your body can't process 2000 calories all at once. A lot of it is going to end up being stored as fat. the program tells you to eat over a period of 8 hours your biggest meal post workout.
Your body also can't store protein. Only use it when it needs it. If you take all your protein at once a lot of it is going to be wasted. MikeCF covered this point. Go read a biochemistry textbook and tell me what happens with proteins.

The above guy; if those are before and after pictures, he was already at low body fat, he just got bigger, mainly pecs. The entire point of this program, stay lean make gains. make leangains.
He's in pretty good shape, he probably knows what's he's doing. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone.

That's my opinion on this.

[Walnuts]

Are you guys trying to tell me that if I eat 700grams of protein on monday, I don't need to eat any protein for the rest of the weak because my body will store the amino acids for use later.

You can't be serious.

[MikeCF]

(04-14-2012 04:28 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

(04-14-2012 04:07 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(04-14-2012 03:31 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Haha yes I guess it is broscience, like I said its just my opinion.

But I'm pretty sure that the human body can't store protein.

Your opinion is uninformed, and therefore doesn't matter.

Yes, the human body stores protein. What exactly do you think muscle tissue is comprised of?

Your attitude - "Even though I'm ignorant I'm going to post!" - is very feminine and unhelpful.

That's not exactly stored. You missed my point.
The human body can't store excess protein.
If you eat 200grams of protein and don't work out, your body will not store it for use later. It's gone.
Got any rebuttals for that?

I'm not retarded despite what you may think. It doesn't take a genius to know that muscle is made of protein.

Excess protein can be converted to other sources of fuel and can even be stored as fat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_(nu...onsumption

Due to the thermic effect of food, a person overeating any nutrient would be better off eating excess protein - since it's more biologically demanding to convert protein into other sources of fuel.

http://www.jacn.org/content/23/5/373.full

Please have a seat over at the little kids' table while the adults talk.

[MikeCF]

(04-14-2012 04:30 PM)rozayINTL Wrote:  

A good friend of mine does the 1 meal a day thing and swears by it. It sounds crazy but apparently it gets results, and after a while it doesn't phase you at all.

Well, there you go.

I rarely post in the training threads because guys who have never tried something are always the first to share their opinions. (Go read the most recent Steroid thread for more retardation.)

So while this thread could have been productive, "Walnuts" took a shit all over it.

[Walnuts]

Did you read my last post?

Excess protein will get stored as FAT. NOT PROTEIN. You can't convert it back.

[Walnuts]

Quote:

When a high dietary protein intake is consumed, there is an increase in urea excretion, which suggests that amino acid oxidation is increased.[17] High levels of protein intake increase the activity of branched-chain ketoacid dehydrogenase.[17] As a result, oxidation is facilitated, and the amino group of the amino acid is excreted to the liver.[17] This process suggests that excess protein consumption results in protein oxidation and that the protein is excreted.[17] The body is unable to store excess protein.[17][22] Protein is digested into amino acids, which enter the bloodstream. Excess amino acids are converted to other usable molecules by the liver in a process called deamination. Deamination converts nitrogen from the amino acid into ammonia, which is converted by the liver into urea in the urea cycle. Excretion of urea is performed by the kidneys.

That's from the article YOU posted. Why don't you read it through, einstein?

[Jackhammer]

Leangains is incredible. I've been doing it for only a week and my body fat is going down, and my muscle mass seems to be staying consistent. I might actually have a ripped body by the time summer comes. Plus, I'm making gains on the amount of weight I'm putting up.

My schedule is: (designed this way due to my work schedule):

Meal #1 - 12PM
BCAA's at about 330PM on my workout days
Meal #2 - 5PM (usually my biggest meal)
Meal #3 - 745PM

Fast from 8PM to 12PM the next day, and consume mostly coffee, green tea (hot), or water with the occasional zero-calorie Arizona idea tea or diet soda.

My biggest issue is counting calories. I am most likely still overeating which is making cutting much harder, but progress is still happening.

[rozayINTL]

Walnuts brings up a fair argument, but I'd rather get past that at this point and hear from some who have maybe tried this themselves. Nothing is perfect, obviously. Walnut maybe you should start a thread about your own dieting/eating methods, I'm sure you have some excellent insight.

Back to this thread.

I've known so many people who have tried the "5 small meals a day!! It's great for your metabolism" and have nothing to show from it usually other than decline.

Maybe the 5 small meals is actually not natural for the human body. Maybe we eat to get full, and that's just the way it is.
As a species we are hunter/gatherers right? Not grazers. In a weird way this kind of diet makes sense. If the status-quo 3 meals a day is so fantastic for our bodies why do we see so many fatasses (hah, obviously there's more that goes into it)

The kid I know who does the 1 meal a day thing I have see with my own eyes some serious improvements in his physique and as far as I can tell his overall health. And he eats whatever he feels like eating for that meal, he's not stressing or counting calories. That's what makes me so curious about this. I'm not sure I'd be man enough to do it truthfully but I find it very compelling

[Walnuts]

Yh sorry for derailing the thread, I just had to set the record straight.

[Carl Sagan]

I've known about Martin and leangains for quite a long time (in fact before he even started his site).

Anyways, intermittent fasting has a lot of great science backing up it's claims. Lots of great health benefits as well. I've ran long stretches of IF for several years now. I've never had any problems with it. It's great for people who don't want to bother with making/packing lunches for work.

In terms of whether or not it is a BETTER diet for lean muscle gain vs any other non retarded diet. I wouldn't say so. For people who are trying to get ridiculously lean without going insane I'd recommend giving it a shot. Hell, I'd still recommend this kind of diet for people not into physique training and are just looking to trim up and improve their heath.

Two thumbs up from me

[Carl Sagan]

for those looking for more of the science check out Martin's site:

http://www.leangains.com

Lots of post in the archives looking into the research on fasting.

I'd also recommend obtaining a copy of EatStopEat (an ebook by Brad Pilon). It's fully referenced.

Also, check out Mark at http://www.marksdailyapple.com (lots of good stuff in the archives on the benefits of fasting).

[Hooligan Harry]

(04-14-2012 05:40 PM)Walnuts Wrote:  

Yh sorry for derailing the thread, I just had to set the record straight.

You did not set anything straight.

Frequent meals are one of the biggest fitness myths of our time, perpetuated by food and supplement companies trying to sell you shit. There is tons of research supporting the benefits of intermittent fasting and fasting as a whole, and the results of people who do practice it are undeniable.

Your body digests a meal over hours and absorbs the nutrients it requires from the food you ate. If there is a surplus, its stored as fat or its crapped out. This crap about not being able to absorb more than x number of grams of protein per hour sounds like the sort of nonsense you hear from guys with lifetime subscriptions to Flex Magazine.

[one-two]

Check out google scholar. That's the first thing I do before any real research.
http scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=%22intermittent+fasting%22+muscle+fat&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C23&as_ylo=2008&as_vis=0
There are only a few hundred scientific articles published on the subject in the last five years. There is no need to read and understand every line, the abstracts tell you most of what you need and they are free.

Here is a good one by Bahadori et al.

Quote:

From the standpoint of promoting leanness, exercise is of most value if oxidation of stored fat is maximized during and following the exercise sessions. Bahadori has proposed that this can best be achieved if prolonged exercise of moderate intensity is performed during a 12–14h “mini-fast” that entails skipping a meal; if subsequent food consumption features low-fat foods, the fat stores expended during and after the exercise will not be fully repleted by dietary fat. Thus, prolonged compliance with such a regimen should lead to steady loss of body fat until a much leaner equilibrium body composition is attained. The feasibility and efficacy of this strategy has been examined in an open pilot study. Participants were asked to perform prolonged, moderate-intensity aerobic exercise at least 3–5 times weekly, nesting each exercise session within a 12–14h mini-fast. No restrictions were placed on daily calorie consumption, but low-fat, low-glycemic-index food choices were recommended. Of the 34 subjects originally enrolled, 27 returned for follow-up evaluations at 6 and 12weeks. During the 12week study, the average fat loss in these 27 subjects – 7.4kg – corresponded to one-quarter of their baseline fat mass. Fasting insulin levels likewise fell by 25%. The rate of fat loss was at least as great in the second 6 weeks as in the first, suggesting that fat loss might have persisted for some time if the study had been prolonged. This protocol, combining elements of exercise training, fasting, and low-fat eating, is both sustainable and healthful, and in reasonably compliant subjects may have considerable potential for promoting and maintaining leanness and insulin sensitivity.

Another interesting one by Varady

Quote:

Dietary restriction is an effective strategy for weight loss in obese individuals. The most common form of dietary restriction implemented is daily calorie restriction (CR), which involves reducing energy by 15–60% of usual caloric intake every day. Another form of dietary restriction employed is intermittent CR, which involves 24 h of ad libitum food consumption alternated with 24 h of complete or partial food restriction. Although both diets are effective for weight loss, it remains unknown whether one of these interventions produces superior changes in body weight and body composition when compared to the other. Accordingly, this review examines the effects of daily CR versus intermittent CR on weight loss, fat mass loss and lean mass retention in overweight and obese adults. Results reveal similar weight loss and fat mass loss with 3 to 12 weeks' intermittent CR (4–8%, 11–16%, respectively) and daily CR (5–8%, 10–20%, respectively). In contrast, less fat free mass was lost in response to intermittent CR versus daily CR. These findings suggest that these diets are equally as effective in decreasing body weight and fat mass, although intermittent CR may be more effective for the retention of lean mass.

[All or Nothing]

(06-06-2011 07:16 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

Has anyone here had experience with Intermittent Fasting (IF)?

Martin Berkhan at http://www.leangains.com is someone I follow via twitter and he has an entire site dedicated to this as a diet choice, a strength training eating plan, and a general way of life.

There are a lot of sites and info that show how well this works, I'm just curious if anyone has any experience with it first hand, and if so can I pick your brain a bit.


The plan I'm going to be starting is going to be as follows:

5a - Wake Up
6a - 2:30p - Work
2:30p - 2:45p - Whey Protein
3p - Enter Gym
4p - Leave Gym
5p - 10p - Feed (consisting of roughly 2000 calories, adjusted for workout intensity)


My plan is to go balls deep into this, sticking to whey for amino acids and extra protein, and Skinless boneless chicken breasts, probably grilled, and some kind of fresh frozen veggie (probably brussell sprouts because I like em)

Any input from anyone who's had experience?

Wow, I looked at that site and it sounds amazing. This guy really seems to know his shit. I'm going to try this out. I have always had trouble staying on diets, especially that 5-6 meals a day one. This fasting diet makes a lot of sense to me and it works with how my eating schedule usually is.

Also, Chad, I feel compelled to ask. How do you think you are going to sustain such a strict diet? Are you going to have cheat days/meals or are you really going to stick to a diet that is that strict?