[Menace]

I'm going to be doing this too. I ordered the book even though I pretty much understand what the diet is. Been on it for about a week, and I don't feel I'm in ketosis yet, but who knows. I don't smell any ketones coming from me.

The reason I am doing this is that I am much fatter than I realized. I'm 5'9" but have a 36" waist (measured across belly button). I need/want to be around 32". I probably have about 12-15 lbs of fat to lose. So I am going to put any bulking on hold for now.

[d'Herblay]

Alright, alright, alright...

Ordered the book. Will report back. Thanks Hannibal!

[RichieP]

Just wondering why whey protein vs real food? Would think meat would be less insulinemic and also boost metabolism more. Any reason for so much whey?

[whiteness]

(01-17-2016 10:40 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

Just wondering why whey protein vs real food? Would think meat would be less insulinemic and also boost metabolism more. Any reason for so much whey?

Meat will inherently have some fat in it and it's a lot easier to measure exactly what you're consuming when using whey protein. I would personally use egg whites since they have a lower glycemic index than meat and whey and can be measured as easily as whey.

[samsamsam]

(01-17-2016 10:40 AM)RichieP Wrote:  

Just wondering why whey protein vs real food? Would think meat would be less insulinemic and also boost metabolism more. Any reason for so much whey?

For a lot of people it just reduces the complexity of food prep. Drink a shake, pop a few different pills and move on. If you don't like veggies make sure you have those fiber pills. I pop them every meal.

[Menace]

I've finally received the book, and certainly recommend it. I did a slightly less optimized version of this diet and lost about 8 lbs. in two weeks (168 to 160), maybe 1-2 lbs. of fat. The important thing to realize is that the maximum amount of fat you can lose is dependent on how big you are now and what your daily calorie deficit is. I can realistically have about a 1000 cal/day calorie deficit, because I'm not that big (my maintenance is around 2000). If you're bigger (and younger) you can have a 2000 cal/day deficit (or more).

The most I could have lost was ~14,000 cals of fat, which translates to 1.56 kg of fat, or 3.4 lbs theoretically. In practice, it is probably half to 2/3 of that.

Changes I will make for next time: use egg whites instead of eggs, add zucchini to my meals in addition to broccoli for added potassium. Also, I will go for longer than two weeks. I need to probably do it for 6-8 weeks. There are sufficient "cheat" meals you can do that it is sustainable without ruining your life too badly.

I used chicken breast for the meat source, and Udo's Oil for the omega 3's.

[Hannibal]

Samsamsam got it right. The whey protein is just for convenience. You can eat meat instead, but for the average sized guy (we'll say 180 lbs @ 20% bf who lifts), your daily protein requirement is going to look like a pound and a half of chicken breast. If you're eating anything fattier (be it eggs, cheese, etc) that number is going to go up and your fat loss will be slower.

Most days I'll eat one or two meat based meals and the rest shakes just because there's a heavy psychological component to sitting down and having a meal. The day doesn't feel quite right without it. Maybe I'll have a couple fried eggs or a piece of cheese as a snack.

I lose on average 3 lbs of fat a week. Your numbers seem just fine and yeah, it doesn't hurt to tweak the diet a bit in order to eat fattier foods if that makes you stick to the diet better.

I have no idea how lean you are but I believe Lyle recommends doing the diet for 6 weeks maximum for a category 2, unless you are over 20% then you can do it until you hit about 15% bodyfat. I went from 21% bodyfat to 16% during my last cut, then I fucked off all winter break and am now entering "phase two" where I cut down to 10-12% and then begin a bodybuilding phase.

If you want an easy source of electrolytes, nuke one of those broth cubes in water and drink it. Obviously homemade bone broth would be better but that is an easy solution to the dehydration problem some folks get. Mrs. Dash is also a good option and don't be scared to use salt/soy sauce.

[Hades]

Anybody scared off by the drastic approach offered by the RFL, but still wants to cut weight, ought take heed of this "Every Other Day" refeed diet that I just found on Lyle McDonald's forums. I might actually give it a shot. Here are some links ->

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=638&

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com//showthread.php?t=788

Essentially you eat normally one day (high protein, like 300 grams of carbs, low fat) and PSMF the other day (so about 1g protein/pound bodyweight in shakes or chicken).

[samsamsam]

Hannibal, when you can restart the process after the 6 weeks?

I have been doing a slightly less aggressive program. But mirroring much of RFL.

Thanks!

[Hannibal]

A full diet break lasts 2 weeks at maintenance calories. This will reregulate your hormonal levels.

Maintenance is bodyweight (in lbs) x 15. So a 180 lb guy would require 2700 calories per day. Lyle recommends dialing that down about 10% to account for metabolic slowdown, so the 180 lb guy would do well at 2500 or so.

To add to this, you want to eat a minimum of 100-150 g of carbs a day.

[samsamsam]

(01-21-2016 06:20 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

To add to this, you want to eat a minimum of 100-150 g of carbs a day.

Music to my ears! Thanks for the info. And for introducing me to RFL.

[Stimulus]

Thank you for this thread Hannibal. When I started reading this thread my first thought was "shitty crash diet, enter stavation mode and put the weight(fat) back on after.."

Now while reading the book it makes a lot more sense, Lyle does a great job in explaining (in pretty good understandable language, even for non native English speaks out there) the processes your body will go through and how to handle these. Even manuipulate them in some degree. I'm not yet finished reading the entire book but I'm already 'on the wagon' to commit to this diet at least once (in the hopes that's all I need to meet my <12% goal).

Tho the diet still comes off to me as a pretty damn tough one, (especially mental, got to have the right state of mind in order not giving up) and 'it's not for everyone' (which without any medical issues is no excuse for ANYONE here to not do it if it could benefit them, we're men that want to better ourselves, right?!) I'm willing to go for it and monitor my results. I think I'll create a log about it here.

One thing that I can't figure out: Lyle talkes about taking about 1.5g of protein for every KG of LBM. Later tho (in a table) he talkes about 1.5g of protein for every LB of LBM. As far is my memory goes I can recall having seen the protein/KG before. But now I'm in doubt, could someone clearify?

Maybe I'll supplement with some LGD, but I'm still reading into that so more on that later. My plan will be to start feb. the 1st and go on with it for the entire month. (I'm cat. 2)

[pialox]

I was due to start this diet on cheat mode with just the whey protein and supplements. But over the last 3 months i have been on a low carb diet where I usually only get my small amount of carbs from legumes like lentils and chick peas. Occasionally rice.

As time has passed I have gotten to January and I've found I'm irritable, having a hard time to get out of bed and was slowly slipping into depression.

I've found after talking to a nutritionist that this is common in some people as low carb diets can effect your ability to produce serotonin.
I'm now gone back to consuming carbs, mostly rice and some small amount of pasta and have found my mood to be improving almost immediately.

Would you guys still recommend this if I have a problem such as this? It only really started surfacing in the last month of this 3 month stint and to be honest didnt really result in a lot if any fat lose.

I was thinking perhaps keeping on with the carbs for another two weeks then going on the RFL program for 2 weeks? Or would that perhaps be not enough time to see results?

[Stimulus]

Have you read the book? Assuming you did, what category are you in? It's common your mood will change (a bit) during the diet, Lyle also tates this might very well happen and it's personal for ones ability to coop with this.

One of the methods to counter this a bit is with the free meal/refeed you will get to have depending on the category you are in, category 1 will have the hardest time since they don't get any free meals and only a 2-3 full days refeed at the end of their cycle. Tho, their cycle will be the shortest at 11-12 days max before having a diet break.

Besides from that, unless you are above 26% BF (from there and up you're in cat. 3) your cycles should have a 1-2 week(s) diet break every 6-12 weeks. So in the case of you being a cat 3. dieter, 12 weeks is the absolute max dietcycle before doing a diet break.

The above is for hormonal/metabolism reasons, aswell to give you a mental break and the possibility to get yourself reloaded mentally for the next cycle, if you plan to do so.

I'm on the wagon for this diet and will start monday for a period of 4 weeks.

In my opinion any diet is a mental battle more than a physical one. Just like when you think you can't do another 1-2 reps when benching, with the right mindset and stimulation (coach or buddy telling you that you CAN do it) you will push out those reps.

[eatthishomie]

I'm about halfway through the RFL handbook now, planning to start in March after doing a regular ketogenic diet in February as a test run (never been on a low-carb diet before).

Has anyone ever done this right off of a regular keto diet? Advisable? Or should I go back to 100-150g net carbs a day and maintain for some time beforehand?

[Isaac Jordan]

(01-31-2016 01:42 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

Has anyone ever done this right off of a regular keto diet? Advisable? Or should I go back to 100-150g net carbs a day and maintain for some time beforehand?

Upping your carbs like that would defeat the purpose of the Rapid Fat Loss Diet.

The whole point is to get your body into fat-burning mode by reducing your insulin impact as much as possible, in order to use stored body fat/ketones for fuel instead of carbohydrates. Eating carbs stimulates insulin, which shuts off the fat burning process entirely.

There's really not much difference between what you're referring to as a "keto diet" and the RFLD, it's simply that in the latter we're forgoing the consumption of additional fat as well in order to cut the total number of calories.

If you're lifting weights or are very active in general, you might consider a carb "refeed" of 300-400g once a week, in order to restock muscle glycogen stores and keep your hormones in balance.

But otherwise, yes, it would be advisable to start the RFLD after/during a period of low-carb eating in order to minimize the time it takes for your body to start burning fat/ketones. Like the OP said, most folks won't enjoy eating nothing but lean protein and veggies, so you'll want to make the diet as fast and effective as possible.

Get into a general low-carb eating style, implement the RFLD diet for 7-10 days, and if you want to continue losing fat consider a refeed day before going another week or so. THEN you can go back to maintenance eating of 100-150g carbs/day.

[Menace]

Wanted to bring this blog post to everyone's attention. I think it's very informative, and I hadn't seen this discussed anywhere else.

http://ironandtweed.com/i-lost-30-lbs-in...ase-study/

Quote:

I can only think of two cases where aggressive fat loss is going to be your best choice.

One, for the morbidly obese. Losing weight at a moderate 1/2-pound per week would take a lifetime if you have that much to lose.

When it comes down to health, rather than aesthetics and strength, who cares if you lose a little muscle in the process of saving your life?

And two, extreme mesomorphs.

If you look like a retired linebacker, have cannon ball shoulders, and can deadlift four plates despite not having set foot in a gym for over a decade, you can probably retain muscle even on a serious caloric restriction.

But for the rest of us, a more conservative rate of fat loss is much more appropriate.

Quote:

This isn’t what most people want to hear and it isn’t the best marketing strategy for a coach.

But when guys approach me saying that their weight loss has stalled even though they only eat 1,400 calories a day and do an hour of cardio 7 days per week (this happens a lot), what else do they think they have to give?

At that point, it’s best to change gears and work on building muscle for a while.

You’ll “recharge your batteries” and be in top fighting shape to take a running start at fat loss in a couple months.

When people look at my before and after picture, they assume it was a linear process, but in reality, my progress was the result of a dozen bulking and cutting cycles.

[samsamsam]

I don't think you can be on this forever. You do need to have your breaks.

I have not been sticking to it super well but still losing fat.

If you are within 15 lbs of a good solid body, I think this is worth a go. If more than that, maybe take a more moderate approach which you can do longer over time.

I am lifting 3 days a week. I have one extra carb meal instead of what the plan says. And on my refeed day, I don't really stick perfectly to the suggested requirements, I just eat whatever.

I probably pop about 15 of those fiber pills a day.

[Hannibal]

I tend to yoyo a bit on this diet too.

The thing is, even when you "yoyo", you're still losing like 3 lbs of fat a week.

The RFL diet is not the greatest diet to cut down to an extreme level of leanness. In fact, past a certain level of bodyfat percentage, it becomes a much bigger pain than it's worth.

The more I've used it, the more I realize it's most effective as a "slash and burn" approach. If you're tubbing around at 20-25% bodyfat, it is an excellent tool to get down to 15% in a hurry. I would say it's the best tool for this purpose; you see results right away and a month's worth of RFL dieting would take actual work to undo inside of 3 months.

Ironically, the kind of people Rapid Fat Loss would help are the same kind of people who would never do the diet aka giant fatties.

I've considered going on a mass training routine with a slight caloric surplus for 6 weeks and then "deloading" to do RFL for one week, after which I'll slowly dial up the calories.

(01-31-2016 01:42 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

I'm about halfway through the RFL handbook now, planning to start in March after doing a regular ketogenic diet in February as a test run (never been on a low-carb diet before).

Has anyone ever done this right off of a regular keto diet? Advisable? Or should I go back to 100-150g net carbs a day and maintain for some time beforehand?

No, but I don't see how it would hurt, unless you were already on some ridiculous caloric surplus. If you were just eating a regular keto diet, you should be fine.

You could do maintenance for a week or two if you're truly concerned (that's at minimum 100-150g carbs a day).

[Hannibal]

I was tired when I wrote the post. I meant to say "ridiculous caloric deficit".

It doesn't matter what your caloric deficit is. Over time, your body's leptin levels will deregulate, causing metabolic slowdown where you will no longer experience weight loss. The purpose of the refeed is to upkick your body's leptin levels so you don't go into starvation mode.

You can only milk the same cow so many times before the teat runs dry, so to speak.

The reason why you want to eat at caloric maintenance for a week or two (bodyweight x 15 is a good number) is to reregulate your body's hormones. From what I understand, leptin is the critical one here.

So keto diets have a tendency to be lower calorie, unless you're slamming back two lbs of fatty ground beef every day with a side of cheese.

If you've been on a caloric restriction with your keto diet for a while, just do RFL for 2-4 weeks and then take a break. I'm assuming you're between 22% and 15% bodyfat, if you're fatter than 22% or so you can diet longer.

[samsamsam]

Hannibal, random question here.

Think you could pop supplements to boost leptin levels? I am speaking out of my ass here, I don't know if there are such things.

[Hannibal]

There are supplements that claim to boost leptin levels. I don't know how well they work though.

RFL uses the refeed to do it. This is a known, proven way of raising leptin levels (eat at a caloric surplus).

Leptin basically does the opposite of insulin ; the higher the level of leptin, the more fat you burn.

I'm taking my diet break here, so in order to drop my insulin levels before a big meal I'm drinking two tablespoons of vinegar with 8oz of water. Apparently it works.

[Hades]

(02-01-2016 01:10 PM)Menace Wrote:  

Wanted to bring this blog post to everyone's attention. I think it's very informative, and I hadn't seen this discussed anywhere else.

http://ironandtweed.com/i-lost-30-lbs-in...ase-study/

I saw the article. If Jeff did RFL and only lifted during his cheat meals and/or refeeds depending on which category he started in, he'd be a lot better off since he'd actually be eating 160+ grams of protein per day.

[samsamsam]

Hannibal, is that ACV or just white vinegar, I saw both when I googled.

I use ALA and cinnamon when I am doing some high carbs.

[Hannibal]

(02-02-2016 04:23 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Hannibal, is that ACV or just white vinegar, I saw both when I googled.

I use ALA and cinnamon when I am doing some high carbs.

Any vinegar will do.