[samsamsam]

You would think if someone had the discipline to do something for 21 days straight (just throwing out a reasonable number from what I have read some guys do it for a couple of months) that they would have enough discipline to maintain weight while getting to eat more calories on a maintenance diet.

Had no idea Hannibal was a serious lifter. Gives even more credibility if he has done it before. Guys who take lifting seriously wouldn't go unnecessarily risking the muscle they took time to build.

[Hades]

(07-18-2015 09:02 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

Had no idea Hannibal was a serious lifter. Gives even more credibility if he has done it before. Guys who take lifting seriously wouldn't go unnecessarily risking the muscle they took time to build.

I can vouch for the guy. We lift at the same gym on occasion.

[s3k]

Benoit - re-checked and definitly responding to op's post

samsam - you can become diabetic with high or low blood sugar. Low blood sugar in diabetic levels is hypoglycemia and in the high levels your hyperglycemic. Both are very bad.

So my advice still stands. If your going to follow the no or low carb route i.e. ketosis, get your blood sugar tested frequently. Theres even mini diabetic tests which you can prick your finger and do yourself. Don't make the same mistake I once did.

[Hades]

I've been playing the diet fast and loose lately.

I did a psmf for about three weeks, took a week and a half off to get hammered for the fourth of July, then went back on for a week and a half. I missed going to the gym too much so I reintroduced carbs and some fats, but in total it looks like I dropped about 14 pounds, from a fat 207 to a post carb refeed weight of about 193. My lifts are the same. Not bad.

I'm going to try a Squat Every Day routine for a month or so and then consider dieting again, but all in all it was great success.

Instead of IF I'm going to throw in random days of eating nothing but chicken or shakes from here on out.

One thing I definitely learned is that you're always fatter than you think you are. I still have some weight to lose.

[TheBowery]

This guy lost 100 pounds with a simple technique. Getting lots of attention in mainstream media: http://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8877041/losing-100-pounds

[texrifle]

Good Afternoon Gents,

I just started this today. I'm currently at 214 lbs and I'm going to do it for a week. Energy levels are a concern for me because I need to make some home-repairs and still do contracting while on it as well as perform in the sack. My question is how long after cycling off of this is your libido/performance affected. I have an old flame coming to visit from the 16th thru the 20th of August, and I want to be ready. Are there any special considerations, or does anyone have experience with countering the longevity issue. I ask because while in the corps I fasted for three days and then we smashed but I couldn't quite last as long as normal. She definitely noticed and then made sure I ate three meals a day until back to normal. Thanks in advance.

[Hannibal]

Everyone responds to it differently. I didn't have any problems coming off the diet and my libido actually went up while I was on the RFL. That might have been because I was very diligent about taking my supplements, too.

A week of RFL won't hurt too much. You might lose four pounds of fat.

Bang after you have your cheat meal, you wouldn't want to do it after a refeed. I don't know how lean you are, though. Depending on your diet category you might only have cheat meals.

[Hades]

You'll be OK. I was hornier than usual on the diet.

Generally energy levels are good enough to do manual labor, though your mileage may vary. Make sure to take a calcium and magnesium supplement.

[heavy]

I'm interested in the libido and fat loss effects. I have a few questions...

My normal Mon-Fri diet is eggs, cliff bars, protein shakes with milk, some lunch meat, a steak or some chicken, some Muscle Milks, and vitamins and fish oil pills. Could I eat those things while on this diet?

Also, what is different about the diet besides all protein...limited protein? Honestly, if I just ate protein (and some fats), I'd probably lose weight (so cut out late night snacks, restaurant splurges, and beer).

Atkins wasn't far off when it comes to losing fat. It annoys me when I hear people hate on it.

Good thread in any case.

[stpete]

I've done this too.

Regarding energy, fat loss and libido...I don't agree with the others.

In one week your not going to be shedding fat you are going to be shedding water. That's a known fact if you follow Lyle McDonald the creator of this diet he will say that specifically. Dropping fat is a long term process that takes time.

Your libido is a factor of your fat intake and carbs. They definitely affect your libido. Now if you are in your mid twenties and you do this you may have a rush of confidence from the weight loss and that is great for your libido. However from a physiological standpoint and especially if you are in your 30s or later your libido will take a hit. Even if you are supplementing. Supplements don't overcome the loss of energy resulting from fat and carbs to fuel your body.

At least on a Keto diet you are taking in fat for energy. Here you take in neither and all protein. Even the creator Lyle does not recommend this type of diet. It is a true diet and not a way to eat.

You can lose fat doing this but not initially. That weight is water weight. Anybody that is in a sport where you drop weight right away following a diet like this will tell you the facts. I think you need facts.

Also you are not supposed to do cardio on this diet. Lyle is very specific on that. Why? Because you have nothing to fuel the cardio. You will bonk. I have done this several times and worked out and you simply run out of energy. You can take a carb load drink like Gatorade but that only goes so far. If you have ever worked out and just felt tired and out of energy then you will know what this means. But I do more than some too. I don't workout for 20 minutes I workout for an hour or more. So it may vary but not much over 20 minutes you will feel the lack of fuel.

This is simple biology. You can't overcome lack of fuel with supplements.

I am a former college scholarship athlete and still compete. So I know how these diets affect the body. As with anything though the affects of someone in their 20s is much less. You can get away with a lot more. Just like a heavy night of drinking is not a great idea but in your 20s you can bounce right back. As you get older is tougher.

All that said I find this is relative to age.

[stpete]

Also if you follow this diet correctly you should be eating no more than 5 grams of carbs or fats in each meal and no more than 20 of each in a day.

Unless you track it...with something like my fitness pal you may be surprised what this actually is.

Even consuming just whey protein you have to be careful of which one you choose. Depending on the amount of protein you need you can go over these macros for fat and carbs.


To follow this diet properly it is a good idea to read his blog and read the book several times.

It's also a good idea to check your TDEE or maintenance to see how far below you are.

[samsamsam]

It is easy to go over and I have. During refeed days I have actually had to create a spreadsheet and add info as I eat. But even if you don't do it perfectly, you can cut weight. I am leaner and look tighter. I mean 20 grams of fat? I hit 10 grams with fish oil alone. Even the protein powder when added for the day exceed those fat gram daily allowances when added together with the fish oil.

[Hades]

I don't think the libido enhancing effects were due to a "rush of confidence" from getting leaner. That's an unfounded assumption, Stpete.

It's pretty well understood that when your serotonin levels drop, as they do on all low carb diets, you get hornier.

Here's a quote from mental health daily -

Quote:

Most often people notice an increase in their libido (sex drive) when serotonin levels drop. Low levels of serotonin are associated with an increased desire to have sex and horniness, whereas higher levels of serotonin are associated with a decreased sex drive, but increased emotional connectedness or bonding.

That sums it up, in a nutshell.

It's harder to sleep on the diet anyhow (serotonin => melatonin) so this is not a bad thing.

I do agree that I have no idea why a guy would only want to do it for a week. It's like two weeks, minimum, unless you're doing the extremely rapid fat loss diet where you do a PSMF and go walk on a treadmill for eight hours a day, but that's ridiculous. Nobody should be in that big of a rush to lose weight.

(07-28-2015 03:09 PM)heavy Wrote:  

I'm interested in the libido and fat loss effects. I have a few questions...

My normal Mon-Fri diet is eggs, cliff bars, protein shakes with milk, some lunch meat, a steak or some chicken, some Muscle Milks, and vitamins and fish oil pills. Could I eat those things while on this diet?

Also, what is different about the diet besides all protein...limited protein? Honestly, if I just ate protein (and some fats), I'd probably lose weight (so cut out late night snacks, restaurant splurges, and beer).

Atkins wasn't far off when it comes to losing fat. It annoys me when I hear people hate on it.

Good thread in any case.

I'd nix the clif bars (terrible macros, they're basically cellophane wrapped diabeetus), the muscle milks (a quality whey isolate like MyProtein will work better), and if you're serious about the diet, probably egg yolks too.

You can definitely eat steak and chicken, but in general you want your protein to be as lean as possible.

Occasionally I would splurge and have some low fat cheese instead of meat, or a six egg omelet (yolks included) with cheese. I also tended to go out and get drunk after every cheat meal and refeed. Whiskey and light beer complement a medium pizza pretty well.

If you're stuck at a gas station or some shit you could do a lot worse than get a couple of slim jims and cheese sticks. Even if you're not 100% strict with the diet in terms of grams of fat per day and whatnot you will still drop weight like gangbusters.

Most importantly, you want to print this PDF out. I have a copy taped to the fridge.
http://www.holisticmd.org/wp-content/upl...edFast.pdf

[stpete]

Yeah I agree you don't have to follow the diet the way it is .....this is a quote from Lyle describing the basics of the diet. Just his 2 cents

Q: Are there acceptable amounts of carbohydrates and fat per meal on The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook Plan?

A: 3-5 grams of each per meal is about the max before you're no longer doing the diet in any way shape or form. That assumes 3-4 meals/day by the way and less would be better.

But allowing small amounts (and lest we forget most foods have trace amounts already so it's easy to let things get out of hand) can allow much more food variety which may help with adherence in the long-term.

The big danger is letting small amounts here and there add up to large amounts over time.

[samsamsam]

Agreed stpete. Even when scooping whey protein, I try to make sure I level it off. Little things do add up.

But for me, if anything, it allows me to operate on fewer calories. So even if is isn't perfect, as long as I don't carb up on non refeed days, still pushes me to lose fat. As long as I am meeting my protein requirements. Maybe just not as fast as I could if I did it perfectly. But I am seeing results, so I will just keep trying to stay with it.

The problem with atkins and IF even, is that while limiting carbs (atkins) or keeping a small feeding window (IF) were great, they never had many rules on total caloric intake.

At least with RFL, it really tries to give you the minimum you need without hurting yourself. Well hurting yourself too much. There will be some strength loss. I didn't test before starting the program. But 5 days in I benched 225 5 times. On the 8th day it was still 225 5 times. On the 12th day it was 225 5 times. Yesterday it dropped to 4. Might be minor but I am using bench press as my guide on strength.

[wi30]

On my second day. I started with it yesterday even though I had a pretty bad cold. I could not fall or stay asleep at all last night, even with two shots of Nyquil. I gave up trying to sleep at 4am and took my dog for a long walk. My head was still a little hazy from the Nyquil.

I was completely exhausted all day from getting a couple hours of sleep. Hades mentioned this diet makes it harder to sleep but I doubt it would make that big of difference in one day. Hopefully I crash for a solid 9 or 10 hours tonight. My normal diet was absolutely loaded with carbs so maybe I'm shocking my body a bit.

I'm a category 2 and I'm doing two weeks to start.

[samsamsam]

I went on the plan on Jul 13 and took a pic just now.

For me it was great.

The day before going on the diet, I went to town eating. I mean I ate 2 full course dinners plus dessert. I probably shouldn't have. But whatever. So the next morning looked like shit.

Also, I took the 1st pic in the morning and the 2nd pic at night with lights on.

There are a lot of variables, but bottom line I am more shredded than before.

I dropped 8 lbs. So I am at 178 now. I know, I know I don't look 178, grrrr.

It did vary depending on if the day before was a refeed day, etc. If I was able to take a dump or not.

I also, didn't perfectly stick to the diet. If anyone has been following my boxing efforts, I box pretty seriously 3 to 4 times a week. During this restricted dieting, I sparred a few times, pushed days to sparring and 8 rounds of mitts after. I was just so hungry, so I ate some extra calories.

I did the free meal and the refeed days. On my first refeed day, I was so excited I made a giant spreadsheet and spent a few hours at the supermarket planning what I was gonna eat. The next few times, I simplified it a lot more. It was just food, wasn't worth all the effort.

I did mainly the protein powder, but had a real meal a day. I hate vegetables and realized I needed more veggies.

I could be a bit more ripped but did the extra workload I had just made me hungry.

As far as lifts go, I didn't measure my reps before starting the diet.

On no carbs day 6 (i think) I repped 225 5 times. Was able to do the same yesterday. Yesterday was a 90 minute boxing day plus 90 mins in the gym later to lift. What is cool is veins popping out of my left arm. My right arm has a big vein showing before the diet, and the left arm has one showing now.

Not to try and make excuses but I think I look better than the pic I took.

Also, this past week I started a stack of yohimbe cl, caffeine and l-tyosine. Just google it. It has given me a good sweat.

Anyway, just wanted to give back a bit. Take it for what you will.

A special thanks to Hannibal for posting his data sheet and for answering some questions in PMs.

   
   

[Hannibal]

8 lbs of fat lost in 4 weeks is pretty damn good if you weren't being all that strict. Good work, man.



Are you planning on taking a week break and doing another round of dieting?

[samsamsam]

Hannibal always telling me what a failure I am.

Just kidding!

I am going to try and keep on it until my flight Wed night. I am heading out for a wedding. I will lift on Wed and then enjoy the meal on the plane (better not fucking SUCK!)

At that point I will be back to IF. Hoping for a smaller caloric deficit, but I also won't be working out so hard. If I just keep an eye on what I am eating, and getting enough protein, I could see myself trimming up more without a lot of muscle loss. I hope that thinking is right.

Maybe I lost more if I actually pooped more regularly

Hannibal, in all seriousness, I was sort of reading about it before and as fate would have it you posted a great data sheet. I owe you for being that final nudge and being supportive during the process. I'd give you so many more rep points if I could. You really made the difference brother.




If anyone wants to read a detailed report on this, you can google rapid fat loss mcdonald pdf. You should stumble across something interesting. It is the first version but still gives you good guidance. And there is a whole set of forums out there discussing this in more detail.

Another thought to share about this diet. You really are not supposed to be doing crazy cardio on this diet. Hannibal was explaining to me, your body is already in some sort of "crisis" from no carbs and low calories. Stressing your body with crazy cardio doesn't help. You are better off going for a walk. The lifting is to protect your muscle. So I was doing something that wasn't ideal for my body. Also, no carbs in the beginning got my ass kicked while sparring. But you get used to it. Eat vegetables!

I also lifted like I normally did, just with some lighter weight. Bench was the only one where I was pushing it as my "true" measure of strength loss. I think there is actually a more appropriate lifting plan and fewer exercises, just do a search.

I am happy with my results but I just want to let people know what I did off plan.

[malc]

I have a mentally intensive job, so I am sensitive to my mental state during it. Have any other engineers here have done this? How much did your job performance suffer? That is the main problem I had when doing something like 1400 calories like these guys are recommending. I don't have an on-my-feet social job that keeps me distracted. I sit in a desk and concentrate deeply, so it's easier to get distracted.

Also slamming liquid meals, how quickly did you get hungry again after eating it? Or does it not matter, since you'll just get hungry again solid or not?

[iknowexactly]

(07-12-2015 05:32 PM)JamesRodri Wrote:  

(07-12-2015 02:23 PM)Repo Wrote:  

2000 calorie deficit and only 5% loss of strength? I'm skeptical to say the least. Of course you will lose a ton of weight at a 2kcal deficit a day, don't need a book to tell me that..

I agree. Whenever I cut, if I'm benching 100kg .....Losing weight is so easy I don't see why people have a problem doing it.

Maintaining muscle mass whilst doing so, now that's the problem.

Try being over 55 with a fucked shoulder from motorcycle accidents etc and get back to me about how easy it is to "lift heavy" and drop pounds.
You might also have inherently good genetics. Did your parents ever become overweight?

I can't lift seriously, I do about 30 minutes moderate treadmill daily on average spread over a 3 days on/4 days off schedule and some curls and pull-up. Nothing with arms raised.

I started a couple weeks ago with a few very low calories days and it helped encourage me I can lose weight.

Right now I'm trying to do a diet that I can live with indefinitely. I eat almost all the stuff I want but am just tapering the carb serving sizes until I lose weight. I don't really feel deprived because I still eat everything I used to ( EXCEPT importantly alcohol) just a smaller amount, and I hope keep losing weight.

no sugar,
no booze,
-as much chicken as I want.
-1 piece of fruit a day,
-2x (protein powder w/ 2 oz milk) ; 4 oz of milk a day total
-and tapering carbs bit by bit
- One serving carbs daily. Now a serving of oatmeal is 1/4 cup dry . Twice a week after a harder 2 hour workout I eat about twice that and once a week a small dark chocolate bar. Twice a week almonds.
-try to eat a head of broccoli a day.
- Fish Oil , Multivitamin Vitamin D

I think I'm losing 1/2 lb/ wk. It doesn't matter the speed to me, it's going to be lifelong monitoring.

To me dieting is almost impossible if I use any alcohol. It seems to make me lose control, stop burning fat.
I've guessed you can tke a three factor approach-- I need to have 2/3 right to lose weight:
1) Booze 2)Exercise 3)Diet

I agree with above posters that "creeping carbs" is a threat. Slam just one big bowl of rice in addition to a gradual diet and your weight loss is done for that day, which I guess is OK in the refeeding schedule, but if you do it every day...

[samsamsam]

I

(08-15-2015 01:23 AM)malc Wrote:  

I have a mentally intensive job, so I am sensitive to my mental state during it. Have any other engineers here have done this? How much did your job performance suffer? That is the main problem I had when doing something like 1400 calories like these guys are recommending. I don't have an on-my-feet social job that keeps me distracted. I sit in a desk and concentrate deeply, so it's easier to get distracted.

Also slamming liquid meals, how quickly did you get hungry again after eating it? Or does it not matter, since you'll just get hungry again solid or not?

You can do solid meals if you plan I'm advance. I just found liquid more convenient. I also took the fiber pills and I imagine that helped. I could have also taken the non pill form and poured it in water. I have done it in the with stuff from Trader Joes and it was a lot of volume so that can help with feeling full.

I wouldn't be the ideal person to answer because of my excessive cardio which added to my hunger.

After a few days I got used to it and it didn't affect my thinking. But I have done IF and Atkins before and handled it well. Maybe you could try IF first and just see if you are ok with an 8 hour feeding window. You don't have to jump into RFL right away.

Also keep in mind I am 40 plus years old. I think if you are younger your results may be better.

[Hannibal]

(08-15-2015 12:48 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

. . .

. . .

Yeah man, glad to help.

IF is definitely less extreme, it'll be a lot easier to stick to longer term. If you plateau in your weight loss efforts, you can easily do a week of RFL for the last stubborn pound or two. Good luck, anyhow.

@malc
Honestly, try fasting for an entire day and see what happens. The rapid fat loss diet is literally a modified fast; fasting for a day should give you a pretty good idea of what you're in for.

When I fast, I'll get some brainfog going into it, but once I'm in a fasted state (or ketosis) I actually think faster and clearer than when I'm in a fed state. Your mileage may vary, it's not for everyone and everyone responds to it a bit differently.

As far as hunger, I recommend a good fiber supplement and lots of meat, cruciferous vegetables and a blended protein powder. A blended protein powder gets absorbed by your body at different rates so you're not gnashing your teeth in hunger after 45 minutes.

[samsamsam]

(08-15-2015 01:59 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

You can do solid meals if you plan I'm advance.

damn autocorrect.

That was supposed to read "if you plan in advance."

I'm nothing close to advanced.

[barnbarn2k]

to minimize muscle loss from ketogenic diets you have to ingest protein at least 5 times a day.

as far as losing strength from a ketogenic diet, it is true. basically it takes muscles about a year to adjust to a ketogenic diet. for the average person its not a big deal, but for a performance athlete it could be. Were talking 10% or so depending on the person. This is only true during the fat loss phase, or induction phase of the diet. Once carbs go over 20g for most people the muscles should get enough glycogen.