[Ensam]

(02-02-2016 03:59 PM)Hades Wrote:  

(02-01-2016 01:10 PM)Menace Wrote:  

Wanted to bring this blog post to everyone's attention. I think it's very informative, and I hadn't seen this discussed anywhere else.

http://ironandtweed.com/i-lost-30-lbs-in...ase-study/

I saw the article. If Jeff did RFL and only lifted during his cheat meals and/or refeeds depending on which category he started in, he'd be a lot better off since he'd actually be eating 160+ grams of protein per day.

Or he could do what the blogger did and get on TRT.
http://ironandtweed.com/my-low-t-journey...t-therapy/

[Hannibal]

His TRT blog post is a lesson in why you should count your calories. As Stan Efferding says, these guys have lifting journals that span for years, showing you every rep and every set they did to break their muscles down, yet no recording of what they did to build them back up (aka eating and sleeping).

In fact, I didn't even find a record of what sort of lifting he did. If it was 80 sets of isolation exercises, yeah he's not going to get anywhere but sore.

He bangs on and on about this "classic bodybuilder diet" and then spends no time describing what he actually ate, or how much. If it's chicken and rice he's talking about, yeah 1 lb of chicken is a grand total of 700 calories, that's 1 lb cooked. 1 lb raw turns into maybe 2/3rds lb cooked because they bloat that shit up with saltwater.

1 cup of cooked rice is ~200 calories. So it's not hard to see that you can definitely undereat on a diet of chicken and rice if your idea of a "big meal" is a chicken breast and a mound of rice (that might be 2.5 cups cooked) and you're only eating twice a day. Protip, if you have a hard time gaining weight, eat off a bigger plate.

There's nothing special about chicken and rice, it's just very easy to control your macros (rice = carbs, chicken = protein with very little fat) and cook a great deal of it.

Few people know this, but lifting hard and heavy for a long period of time causes your testosterone levels to tank. Some call it overtraining. Do too much for too long and it will cause a metabolic shitshow in anyone, especially if they're undereating (which he probably was). I'm not surprised he went to the doctor and his testosterone was low, he probably wasn't eating enough to sustain his activity levels. Probably wasn't eating enough fat either, which will also lower testosterone levels.

If I were him I would have scaled my training back to two or three times a week, focused on heavy compounds for 10 reps or more, and eaten more. Some folks simply have shitty recovery; the answer is less training, not more.

Or I could just push an affiliate link for TRT.

[Ensam]

(02-02-2016 08:20 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

Few people know this, but lifting hard and heavy for a long period of time causes your testosterone levels to tank. Some call it overtraining. Do too much for too long and it will cause a metabolic shitshow in anyone, especially if they're undereating (which he probably was). I'm not surprised he went to the doctor and his testosterone was low, he probably wasn't eating enough to sustain his activity levels. Probably wasn't eating enough fat either, which will also lower testosterone levels.

A good check on this is to monitor your resting heart rate every morning. Start during a recovery week to make sure you capture your recovered state as best as possible. As you get fitter your resting heart rate should drop, when you enter over training territory your resting heart rate will start to rise. Take a week off and reload your calories.

[Hannibal]

I also noticed that he said his resting heart rate never improved in spite of his lifting and diet regimen.

In all seriousness, his situation would have been better if he lifted like he said he was and then permabulked until he looked like the fat bastard from Austin Powers, then dieted down once he built some muscle.

[Menace]

So I have a brief update. I've restarted the diet along what the book actually states.

To be specific, on non-lift days: 50-55 g protein from shake (Matrix) for breakfast, lunch is 8 oz chicken breast and some zucchini, dinner is egg white omelette (450 mL of egg whites) and some salsa and usually raw broccoli. Supplement with vitamin and 1 tbl. spoon Edo's oil for omega 3's.

On lift days same as above, but I split the protein up to make sure I have half after the work out. Along with work out I also have 1 serving of glycofuse complex carb to maintain energy.

The other little addition I made is using a SARM: LGD-4033. This stuff is gold. I'm dosing 5 mg/day. It really helps with the recomposition/cut. I've been losing about 0.5 lbs/day. Waist down from 36" to 34.5" over the course of about 10 days I'd say. The other thing I think LGD is responsible for is preventing water retention. Normally after a carb filled meal (lets say your re-feed day), I expect to retain some water. Not with LGD. It really seems to keep my weight pretty constant. I have the advantage of also being on TRT, so I don't care about test suppression, since mine is already fully suppressed.

[Beyond Borders]

How's results for those of you doing the strictly shake route?

[samsamsam]

(02-13-2016 08:17 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

How's results for those of you doing the strictly shake route?

The last few days I have been hitting the shakes hard nothing else. Well except a lot of fiber. I started cutting around New Year's with a modified approach. I think the shakes only path works, just you might feel a bit hungry. Just take those fiber pills!

I was tightening up over the last few weeks but I can definitely notice some distinct shreds that were not there a few days ago. But please keep in mind, I was cutting just not this intensely. I do think it works, this is my second time doing it.

[puckerman]

I haven't read the book. But carbohydrate starvation is an effective way to go. Minimize carbohydrates, but eat plenty of protein. That basically means fruits, vegetables, and meats. I cut out dairy and grains entirely.

[Benoit]

(02-12-2016 10:50 AM)Menace Wrote:  

On lift days same as above, but I split the protein up to make sure I have half after the work out. Along with work out I also have 1 serving of glycofuse complex carb to maintain energy.

About Glycofuse - It's awesome stuff for fasted training, prevents DOMs and helps me recover faster. I used the branded product for a year or two, only ever bought on discount, and thought I was getting the best deals.

I was wrong.

Almost 100% of the product is made up of a generic ingredient that can be bought in bulk for much cheaper. The rest is calcium and a few trace minerals that you're unlikely to be deficient in anyway.

I now only use that main ingredient - Highly Branched Cyclic Dextrin - and have seen absolutely zero downside.
http://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/highly-bran...xtrin.html

You'll need a local supplier, but I buy the 2.5kg sacks, which refill an empty glycofuse tub twice - depending on offers, that's a minimum 50% cost saving.

[Switch]

Going to hit this for 3 weeks. I'm far too impatient for every other fat-loss strategy I've tried up until now. I'm extremely serious about following this protocol to the end. 175 lbs and about 18% body fat. Will post on March 20th what my results end up being. I predict 5 lbs of water loss, 10 lbs of fat loss, and 1 lb of muscle loss. Cheers.

[CodyB]

Perhaps a dumb question, but if I'm taking 10 fish oil tablets per day @ 1000mg per pill, would I be added 10g of fat to my daily macros?

[Hannibal]

Yes, but it's a fairly negligible amount of fat. So you'd be slowing down your daily calories burned by 90.

Since your body is in ketosis, you need to balance out the ratio of Omega 3's and Omega 6's for cardiovascular health.

I'm sure there are other health related reasons.

[eatthishomie]

Starting on March 10th after a week of maintenance following a month of a traditional keto diet.

237lbs, 23% BF

What fish oil are you guys doing RFL using? I'm ordering everything I need for it now.

[Hannibal]

I use Kirkland's when I RFL, but it gives me mad fish burps so I've been looking for something else.

If you're going the shake route, do not forget the psyllium husk caps. I got mine in pill form (now brand psyllium husk caps).

If you don't, you'll have an explosive surprise after a day or two.

[eatthishomie]

Definitely not going the shakes only route. Shakes, yes, but also lean fish, fiborous greens, leafy greens, egg whites, low-fat cheese, and casein pudding (literally ON casein protein and water). Is psyllium husk still needed if I'm eating a lot of fiborous greens?

Do you take an EC stack when you RFL? I'm thinking about leaving it out or substituting ShredJym or just plain old green tea extract.

[Hannibal]

It (psyllium husk caps) might help but it's not necessary if you're eating plenty of salads. Make sure you look up the nutritional content of the vegetables, there are a lot of hidden sugars and shit in certain kinds (beets, carrots, etc). An onion here or there won't kill you though, 30 grams of carbs daily is the upper limit for most people in order to stay in ketosis.

You can take an EC stack but I personally don't, coffee and cigarettes work fine for me. Take a dose on the low side until you figure out how your body reacts at such a low caloric intake, then bump it up if need be.

[eatthishomie]

Yeah was already planning on giving up beets and carrots for the duration of the diet except for free meals and refeeds (even though I love the fuck out of both beets and carrots). My keto macros last month had me on 25g net carbs or less so 30g (I assume this is net carbs) will be a little easier to keep up.

Good to know coffee can be a substitute for EC. I'm planning on green smoothies (kale, romaine lettuce, celery, spinach, arugula, collard greens, etc.) with protein powder and instant coffee to be a staple meal.

[CodyB]

(03-01-2016 01:01 AM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

Good to know coffee can be a substitute for EC. I'm planning on green smoothies (kale, romaine lettuce, celery, spinach, arugula, collard greens, etc.) with protein powder and instant coffee to be a staple meal.

That meal, and your name, together. Oh boy. Awesome!

Eat this homie!

[CodyB]

On RFL is lifting 3-4 sets of 8-12 advisable for aesthetics over 5x5?

I have a feeling on a crash diet such as this, this won't matter as much and 5x5s will be more beneficial as they feel easier.

[Benoit]

(03-01-2016 05:25 AM)CodyB Wrote:  

On RFL is lifting 3-4 sets of 8-12 advisable for aesthetics over 5x5?

I have a feeling on a crash diet such as this, this won't matter as much and 5x5s will be more beneficial as they feel easier.

You will not have the ability to recover from either of your suggested schemes on a diet like this.

See the book or the OP:

Quote:

Lyle recommends two workouts a week during the cut, heavy compound lifts for 2-3 sets per body part. I just did this
Backsquat 2 sets of 6 reps
Bench 3 sets of 6
Deadlift 1 set of 6

[Switch]

Just bought some psyllium husk. Very excited to be regular again.

[eatthishomie]

Those green shakes actually taste pretty bad without substantial flavoring, but they're good for ya. When I was on keto I was adding unsweetened almond milk, vanilla extract, cocoa powder, and stevia to my green shakes in addition to protein powder.

I wonder if I can get away with this on RFL. All of the above have very little fat or carbs but make a huge difference in making these green shakes more palatable.

The workouts I'm doing will mirror the book pretty closely with fairly minimal modifications:

FULL BODY A (usually on Tuesday):
Barbell front squats 3x6
Weighted push-ups 3x6
Rack pulls 3x6
Bent over barbell rows 3x6
Standing lateral raises 3x6
Hamstring curls 3x6
Barbell curls 3x6
Tricep push downs 3x6
Cable crunches / Face pulls 3x10

FULL BODY B (usually on Friday):
Leg presses 3x6
Dumbbell floor presses 3x6
Romanian deadlifts 3x6
Bent over dumbbell rows 3x6
Seated lateral raises 3x6
Supinated dumbbell curls 3x6
Close grip weighted push-ups 3x6
Cable crunches / Face pulls 3x10

[Hannibal]

Artificial and low carb sweeteners are just fine.

I'll throw in a spoonful of cocoa powder and a tiny bit of heavy cream to make a shake more palatable at times.

That routine looks like a lot of work, to be honest. You might be able to get away with it, but I had to drink about 20 grams of carbs (in the form of gatorade) during my workout to even get through the 3 sets of bench, 2 sets of squats and 1 set of deadlift.

[eatthishomie]

It does seem pretty high-volume for a workout on such a calorie deficit... however it is close to what the book suggests with some slight modifications. I'm planning to take 2 scoops of BCAAs (that's about 5-6g carbs) and a scoop of C4 beforehand and sip Gatorade during the workout. If I find I'm having trouble getting through the workouts with all that I'll cut the volume in half. Maybe do facepulls on a separate day since I'm mainly doing those for shoulder mobility.

[Menace]

In addition to lifting I have added fasted cardio in the mornings. I believe it is necessary for someone like me, who does not have a large maintenance calorie requirement. I'd say if your maintenance level is below 2000 per day, you will probably need to do some cardio to push things along.

I do about 10-15 min of HIIT type cardio (burpees, squats, jumping jacks, etc.).