[Akula]

(07-04-2014 02:11 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

In my experience, most expats begin to question things around the 4-5 year mark.

Don't throw away your passport just yet.

I hear you loud and clear but I'm on year 7 and every time I go back I realize how bad the US' trajectory is. Ditto for my trips to the UK. In fact going home now makes me more sure of my decision, not less. We'll see what happens as I grow farther and farther away from my roots.

That's not to say that Russia or EE or Asia re the answer for everyone, but that simply most of these Western "Democracies" have seriously lost their way and the effects of the social policies of the past 40-50 years are starting to be felt in very tangible & negative ways. You can't see that so well if you've been living there (frog doesn't know its boiling) but you sure as hell can when you're away for long periods of time. For Chrissake you can't even drink a beer on the street in the US without getting arrested or drive 35 in a 25 without incurring some large fine and that's just the least of the increasingly burdensome new Police State problems.

In any case, throwing away a passport isn't the smartest thing unless you have a backup. I'd love to be able to get rid of my US passport given that we're the only industrialized country that taxes it's citizens on global income (that's crazy when you think about it) but it's not really feasible.

[Que enspastic]

Oz expat in UK. Wouldn't move back. Keen to stay here as a base for next 5 years and get Europe under my belt. Would like to live somewhere like Poland, Colombia, Croatia, Spain or Thailand if possible.

[Eurobrat]

(07-04-2014 02:11 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

In my experience, most expats begin to question things around the 4-5 year mark.

Don't throw away your passport just yet.

Examples, and what type of questions?

[Bushido]

(07-07-2014 07:56 PM)Eurobrat Wrote:  

(07-04-2014 02:11 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

In my experience, most expats begin to question things around the 4-5 year mark.

Don't throw away your passport just yet.

Examples, and what type of questions?

Several people I know have repeated a similar cycle. Seems to go in these phases:

1. Move to Country B from Country A. You love everything about Country B and swear you will never leave. Everything about Country B seems better than Country A.
2. Get somewhat used to Country B. You become proficient with the language, get a local girlfriend and friends apart from expats.
3. You integrate to Country B and now have a professional job and social circle. It doesn't feel like being abroad anymore. You speak the local language fluently. Things are looking up, but you start comparing Country B to Country A. It still much better in Country B, but you begin to notice multiple downsides of Country B such as racism or small-mindedness- somehow you had never noticed these negative aspects before.
4. Everything about Country B now pisses you off. You long to speak your native language. You regress back to hanging out with expats from Country A with whom you can bitch about Country B. You might even seek to date locals who speak your language. You get irrational nostalgia for going back to Country A.
5. This is usually the deciding step. You either adjust and stay for good or leave.

In addition to the above is the pressure to "fall into line" and go back home. Family ask if you are coming back one day. Also, hearing about classmates or friends getting promotions or making bank in their careers makes you wonder "what if".

I've been involved in Japan for the past 9 years (full time living for 5) and have been through all of these phases. It's quite a mindfuck how your impressions of a place can change over time.

[Americas]

Not anytime soon. Probably end up going to the US before I go back to Canada.

[Brosemite]

I actually like being a young single guy in my city. It'll get even better once I get my career straight in my intended field once finishing my education amongst figuring other things out.

As for raising a family here in the US? Quite a few disadvantages that I'm not too fond of.

1) Compromising personal lifestyle to live in uninspiring DFW suburbs where congestion is absolutely horrible because EVERYBODY wants to live there for the "good school districts."
2) Those suburbs with the "affordable good school districts" result in absolutely horrible traffic infested commutes into the big city involving possible work options. The whole point of suburban life is more "comfortable sprawl" though it's becoming more of a clusterfuck than city life.
3) Horrible and disadvantageous divorce laws.
4) The God awful medical bills involved with getting sick.
5) Once again the atrocious medical bills involved with your wife giving birth in a local hospital.
6) Having to pay increasing private school tuition if not wanting to compromise lifestyle in more comfortable neighborhoods for adults.
7) This is more along the lines of being single living in the big city...but the best neighborhoods for "dating logistics" are also the most prone into car, parking garage, and apartment break ins amongst other safety issues albeit possessing much higher prices.
8) Even in "safe suburbs" break ins are becoming increasingly more common too.
9) Whether married or in a relationship...taking all these weekend/long weekend trips for out of town weddings. These annoying obligations increase exponentially when tied down to another entitled westernized bitch...as if being compromised by the suburbs wasn't enough. Not sure how many of my peers put up with this.

At this rate though...it'll be best to serve as bachelor uncle here opposed to raising a family.

[Jaydublin]

I have put myself in a pretty decent situation where I could provide a life for myself in the USA near my hometown that I would have only dreamed of as a kid. The problem is that America is on a very negative trend and I can't see myself going back home for the long run. Though when I think of being happy as an old man I envision myself in the country on a 200-300 acre farm, then I remind myself that things have changed and its not the same place where I grew up.

[spalex]

I have been an expat for 3 years now.
The only reason that I don't want to go back to Australia is because its a logistical nightmare.
Taking all my shit there
Getting a visa for my girlfriend
Plane flight will be more than $2k
Having to find a new place to live plus job

The only easy part is that I wont have to learn a new language.

[Akula]

(07-08-2014 12:08 AM)Brosemite Wrote:  

I actually like being a young single guy in my city. It'll get even better once I get my career straight in my intended field once finishing my education amongst figuring other things out.

As for raising a family here in the US? Quite a few disadvantages that I'm not too fond of.

1) Compromising personal lifestyle to live in uninspiring DFW suburbs where congestion is absolutely horrible because EVERYBODY wants to live there for the "good school districts."
2) Those suburbs with the "affordable good school districts" result in absolutely horrible traffic infested commutes into the big city involving possible work options. The whole point of suburban life is more "comfortable sprawl" though it's becoming more of a clusterfuck than city life.
3) Horrible and disadvantageous divorce laws.
4) The God awful medical bills involved with getting sick.
5) Once again the atrocious medical bills involved with your wife giving birth in a local hospital.
6) Having to pay increasing private school tuition if not wanting to compromise lifestyle in more comfortable neighborhoods for adults.
7) This is more along the lines of being single living in the big city...but the best neighborhoods for "dating logistics" are also the most prone into car, parking garage, and apartment break ins amongst other safety issues albeit possessing much higher prices.
8) Even in "safe suburbs" break ins are becoming increasingly more common too.
9) Whether married or in a relationship...taking all these weekend/long weekend trips for out of town weddings. These annoying obligations increase exponentially when tied down to another entitled westernized bitch...as if being compromised by the suburbs wasn't enough. Not sure how many of my peers put up with this.

At this rate though...it'll be best to serve as bachelor uncle here opposed to raising a family.

Agree with all the above and would add these into the mix:

1) unhealthy/GMO food (can be thwarted by eating healthy at Whole Foods but that's really expensive);
2) lack of attractive/approachable non-fat feminine women (nuff said); I'm in my 40s now and shudder to think what I'd be dealing with day to day dating-wise. I guess I could just use "Seeking Arrangement" and Match.com more but finding a nice, sweet down to earth girl who actually respects and needs to be with a man is a tall order;
3) horrible social environment - so many things to look out for that we don't need to go into, but keeping yourself and your family sane would entail being uber-carefull re the GLBT, progressive, misandrist agenda that exists in the US;
4) completely overmedicated society - you don't know if who you are dealing with are emotional basket-cases all drugged up on anti-depressants, weed or hell meth. It's more the women you need to be careful about but the overmedication of society has penetrated all socioeconomic areas and all classes;
5) you're essentially tied down to a suburban existence where you can't walk anywhere really except in certain larger cities (NYC, Boston, SF maybe a few others in certain parts like DC and Chicago) and/or in very small towns - i.e. you need a car to get everywhere and this will impact your health;
6) divorce rape - I know Brosemite mentioned this, but it's a HUGE issue and needs to be stressed. It's not that the laws are unfair it's also that you WILL get fucked as a man in almost any acrimonious divorce 'settlement' and will spend the rest of your life regretting getting married in the US;
7) increasing police state - at the same time as crime is going up and nobody feels safe, you have an encroaching police state at all levels, whether on the internet, or via state and local governments encroaching on person freedoms; you can fucking forget about 'saying what you feel or what is right' in the workplace and most social situations too;
8) rapacious tax regimes - depends on the state, but a lot of places where there is work are increasingly using higher taxes to solve their problems and are declaring war on the producers (i.e. the taxpayers). This can be anything from actual tax increases, to higher property taxes to increasingly aggressive non-violent crime enforcement for thinks like speeding, parking, licensing, etc. Think a 35 in a 25 in Montgomery Country (DC area) is now like a $100 ticket per infraction;
9) insane litigation - a potentially bankrupting lawsuit or catastrophic medical situation are always just around the corner. The US is the most litigious country on the planet and you're always at risk;
10) generally nuttiness in the way some things are done - this is all over the place but includes a) not using the metric system; b) circumcision of most young kids; c) taxing citizens who live abroad; d) 21 year old drinking age; e) politically correct (indeed, fascist) workplace culture totally skewed against men; etc. etc. The rules and norms don't make sense half the time and are often just crazy;
11) college tuition. It's crazy how expensive it is to go to a decent university these days in the US especially when compared to the cost in Canada, the UK and most of Europe. Nor do you really 'get what you pay for' with huge class sizes and the college party social atmosphere. Spending $10K + (and probably $250K+) for public and private universities is pretty ridiculous;
12) VOCAL FRY!!!! WTF????

[Comte De St. Germain]

Vocal Fry makes my dick go flaccid. It's not something that I can stand for more than three seconds. Multiple times I have come within mere seconds of telling them to shut the fuck up.

[Irish]

Good thread

34 yr old Irish/UK ex pat been living in Singapore for last 18 months. I would want to stay out in Asia for the forseeable (tho maybe not in Singapore). If it wasn't for the fact I have an aging mother who may not have long left to live (father passed away 4 yrs ago) and feel guilty about not being (closer to) home. So will need to head back at some point soon

Lived in Glasgow & London prior to that, tho I hated London I absolutely loved Glasgow at the time but now I have experienced Asia properly I would have a hard time moving back. I guess it was a case of not knowing what I was missing. Although I do miss my friends there, I'm happy to just be able to go back and visit once in a while. Given my age I wish I moved out here a lot sooner, but I guess better late than never.

No plans on having kids or settling down. No plans on even having a girlfriend at this rate. Having too much fun partying it up in Singapore & getting away for weekends around SE Asia, picking up girls and getting up to the sort of fun I could never find back in UK/Ireland. Plus I know guys in the 40s and even 50s here still partying and pulling quality ass which guys in their 20s or 30s could only dream of back in the UK. Living here has opened my eyes, it is indeed like Peter Pan world here (for guys).

For me the quality of chicks isn't the main driver of my happiness in a certain place, although it is a major factor. But for me a large & quality social circle is the main thing. Both here in Singapore and back in Glasgow I had great groups of friends. But the friends I have here are definitely more adventurous and up for doing new things. They put more effort into living life and as a result get more out of it.
Not only that, they help you raise your game also in being more adventurous and getting more out of life.

I could go into detail on how my friends at 'home' and out here are different but this article really does hit the nail on the head:

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/blogs/th...2psde.html

[DaveR]

Russia is a difficult to live in, but I've never had any thoughts of moving back. Sometimes I think about moving to the Baltics or another part of the Slavic world, but those places come with their own set of issues.

The closest I would get would be spending part of the year in Latin Europe (Italy, France), but I would take Russians with me.

It's about the people. I find it really difficult to connect with most Brits and others from the English-speaking world these days. There are only small exceptions, like this forum.

[DaveR]

(07-03-2014 12:59 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

People often post as if they have total amnesia about where all the wealth came from in first world countries. They have the jejune belief that all the smart productive people who made the place wealthy have disappeared, it's all going to hell, etc.

This is naive, it took Rome a LONG time to build and to fall apart. Your life span is a fraction of that decline period.

First world countries aren't wealthy because the people are lazy and stupid.

There are middle-ground countries which do compete in many areas. The Czechs compete with Germany in auto and mass transit engineering these days. Tallinn, Novosibirsk and St. Petersburg are good places to develop IT products. Singapore and HK are very strong in the funds management business.

The West is rich because it managed to drive productivity in all areas of the economy, but that isn't as important in today's globalised market. You don't necessarily have to develop your product in the market where your customers are.

[William Windsor]

One time my dad said to me, "William, you can come home now, it's ok to come back." On occasion, I've thought about it. One of the reasons I don't do it, is that I feel like I would be somehow admitting defeat. Like living abroad was fun and all, but in the end, it was a dead-end. Didn't get engaged, didn't make a wad of cash. It's kind of absurd because I've had some amazing experiences. I guess I need more than just experiences, that I need to accomplish something really significant, something that I could only accomplish while being abroad. Not sure if anyone else feels this way, it might not make much sense, but it's how I feel.

[yfc4]

Thought I'd just bump this thread. Quite a lot of chat circulating the forum about relocation, leaving home country on a permanent basis and I was just wondering what's the longest RVF members have gone since they returned to their home country.

On a personal note, I'm coming up to 4 years since I was last in UK, obviously still have no intention of returning!

[Irish]

Will be 4 years in December for me since I left the UK

Not lived in my home city for about 13 years now

[Constitution45]

I moved back, I am approaching my mid 20s and had an opportunity to develop in my career through a skill set that I could only improve on back in my home country (U.K). I have no qualms with moving out of the West to be an expat although it will be a bit later on in life. I think it purely depends on the individual, living abroad though is a great experience and lets you realise that the grass is in fact greener on the other side. I am a strong believer in mental attitude trumping location though.

[RawGod]

I've spent seven years of the last decade as an expat, and I just don't have much identification with my home country anymore. No plans to stop roaming.

And by the way, for all of you waiting until you have a large cushion or income before you make the move, I've done it on a shoestring and it's been fine.

[kirdiesel]

Been an expat from the US in Germany for 5.5 years now.... Unless I guess a substantial job offer to move back to the US I wouldn't consider it.

I would highly consider moving back to the US with a European wife and kids but as a single black man.... Hell naw. As much as it pains me to say it though,

[Phoenix]

I think the real question is: will western women stop being fat, unpleasant, unfeminine scatter-brains who get pumped at 20 and buy cats at 30? Answer's the same.

[iknowexactly]

(07-27-2016 09:35 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I think the real question is: will western women stop being fat, unpleasant, unfeminine scatter-brains who get pumped at 20 and buy cats at 30? Answer's the same.

Belated +1 for concise criticism. My only critique is you missed the step where they become devoted to their cats at 40 when their SMV plummets. I don't gloat over that, I don't like to kick anybody while they're down.

My life is not like that of the top 1% natural alphas, my childhood natural best friend is rich and happy with kids and a wife that is smart enough to kiss ass.

For me in my late 50s, America became a grim sexual desert. I should add I keep my hard-won ( 20 years) professional credentials current so I can come temporarily leech off the huge, powerful economy. Which is driven by the fact that the men work themselves to death accepting a grim sexual desert.

I had always been "the interesting guy" and got what I would call "curiousity fucks" from 6s,but they preferred to fuck players; that just became intolerable when I became the "old interesting guy" about 45 and I didn't even get the curiosity fucks I did when younger.

Also in late 50s my sexual abilities declined and I became even less willing to bed the White Whale.

I first went to Europe at 1983, Russia in 1993. I was near Moscow, commuting with my young hostess from an icy suburb with huge apartment blocks but only one car parked nearby. We visited the polling place the day they elected Yeltsin in the first actual election in something like .....ever in their history. I try not to think about alternate realities in life that are not possible now (regret), but objectively I believe she was willing, and I should have married her.

Their economy was a mess, but I immediately saw it was a different world where men were treated with some respect.

Fast forward 15 years for a financial fool to build a solid small passive income, just about 1500 per month.

Now at 60, the Philippines is a humorous and gentle godsend. It did take months to appreciate the culture but I learned a huge amount about my own vanity and about appreciating human life, children, and being thankful for what you have in life. But don't delay when grasping the moment, like the oligarchs changed Russia, Philippines now has a very unusual political situation I don't want to discuss in detail, but you never know how climates will change.

I perceived the the mindset in the USA (which I foolishly blindly subscribed to) as more like:

1) Whatever you have materially you are a failure if you do not continually strive to get more .
2) Everything else in life is secondary to achieving an upper middle class lifestyle. Children, free time and adventure are only reasonable to pursue if you have middle-class money.

In the Philippines 7+ girls willingly and eagerly take it raw with the open agreement that they would be lucky to have a child from a talented , decent looking educated guy like myself.

The basic, billenia old truth of biology--

If attractive, fertile women are not openly willing to have your children you are an outcast in your own culture.

But there is a follow-on corollary to this for those who want to marry and have kids. I intend to marry a girl in the 3rd world country, then live with her in the 2nd.
In a poorer Euro country-- Portugal, Poland-- there is less abrasive pollution, poverty, disease and stress for growing our future kids.

If you weren't smart enough young enough to get set up in Rich Asia, Japan, where the girls are hotter than here, then:
"Born in the first world, fish in the third, farm in the second."

[Freebird Flying]

As for long term, I can see health care being a concern. No one else is concerned about health care? Also, when people get older, don't they generally want to be around family more?

Thanks for the thread. I enjoyed reading....

[OCZ]

(07-07-2014 09:03 PM)Bushido Wrote:  

(07-07-2014 07:56 PM)Eurobrat Wrote:  

(07-04-2014 02:11 AM)dreambig Wrote:  

In my experience, most expats begin to question things around the 4-5 year mark.

Don't throw away your passport just yet.

Examples, and what type of questions?

Several people I know have repeated a similar cycle. Seems to go in these phases:

1. Move to Country B from Country A. You love everything about Country B and swear you will never leave. Everything about Country B seems better than Country A.
2. Get somewhat used to Country B. You become proficient with the language, get a local girlfriend and friends apart from expats.
3. You integrate to Country B and now have a professional job and social circle. It doesn't feel like being abroad anymore. You speak the local language fluently. Things are looking up, but you start comparing Country B to Country A. It still much better in Country B, but you begin to notice multiple downsides of Country B such as racism or small-mindedness- somehow you had never noticed these negative aspects before.
4. Everything about Country B now pisses you off. You long to speak your native language. You regress back to hanging out with expats from Country A with whom you can bitch about Country B. You might even seek to date locals who speak your language. You get irrational nostalgia for going back to Country A.
5. This is usually the deciding step. You either adjust and stay for good or leave.

In addition to the above is the pressure to "fall into line" and go back home. Family ask if you are coming back one day. Also, hearing about classmates or friends getting promotions or making bank in their careers makes you wonder "what if".

I've been involved in Japan for the past 9 years (full time living for 5) and have been through all of these phases. It's quite a mindfuck how your impressions of a place can change over time.

Man you hit the nail perfectly.

[262]

A "mere" one year in Gdansk so far.

Even if I didn't like it here, the West is the last place I'd consider for relocation. I already have enough money, and I don't need to pump and dump any more slutty, low-quality chicks.

[LeightonBlackstock]

Next month marks 4 years on Asian soil. Haven't returned to the UK once. Don't plan to either.

Life is good here in the tropics.