[champ]

I've been thinking a lot about my future plans in my adopted country recently and it prompted me to start this thread to get the temperature of other RVF expats.

The prompt: Where are you from? Where do you live? How long have you been there? Do you plan to move back home? Follow on commentary is of course encouraged.

I'll start:
From the US. Living in Brazil for nearly 3 years. Yes I will likely move back, though it won't be for at least another 3+ years.

I miss being close to my family (2 nieces born since I got here and another on the way) and friends, and day to day annoyances of dealing with the overall clusterfuck that this country is (everything is more complicated than it should be) so far have been outweighed by the thrill of new experiences, overcoming personal challenges, and the women. As the novelty wears off the downside becomes greater.

Mostly I see myself moving back to the states because I am engaged now and I can't see myself raising a kid here. The fact is simple things that we take for granted in the states, like good public schools and safety, are luxury items here. My opinion of the US (and the west) is jaded but not as negative as the general board sentiment.

I'm not returning in the near future though as I'm still happy here overall and I have not yet accomplished all I set out to accomplish. In the medium to long term it is not a foregone conclusion that I will move back to the States (Spain is actually appealing to me at the moment) but it is more than likely.

[The_CEO]

I was also wondering how many split their time 1/2 and 1/2, like a snowbird lifestyle,
in case anyone wants to weigh in on that?

[Gringuito]

(07-02-2014 08:48 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

I was also wondering how many split their time 1/2 and 1/2, like a snowbird lifestyle,
in case anyone wants to weigh in on that?

I do that, though it's a bit more complicated than 50/50. I enjoy the lifestyle and it never gets boring.

[Bushido]

As an expat, I have wrestled with this question many times.

I have learned that it is harder to get ahead in your career abroad. Not impossible, but harder.

There are so many unwritten "rules" that make things more difficult in another culture.

It's not even discrimination per se, just a different way of doing things. You are constantly fighting to stay in the loop. You don't have the same contact network as locals.

The real question for me is what is more important, my lifestyle or my career? Living abroad gives me a better lifestyle and more feminine women. I could make more cash back home but is it worth it?

The solution for me seems to be working for myself but it takes courage to get started.

[Perdidogringo]

I've been an American expat going on 14 years now and have no plans to ever live full-time in the States again. I've lived in several countries- Venezuela, Indonesia, Hungary, Panama and now Colombia. Yes, the day-to-day annoyances will always be there in these developing countries but in my case, I can make more money outside the US in my field and as someone now in his 40s, my social life is 1000% better abroad with much more success with 20 something women. Yes, I miss some of the conveniences of the US, but one trip back home per year always convinces me that I'm way better off abroad.

[Corroncho]

I'm an American expat, and two of my favorite things in life are visiting the US and getting the fuck out of it. It really is nice to go home, see family and friends, speak something more than pidgin English, eat a huge variety of international foods, and enjoy the convenience, organization and competence of American society. But usually within a couple of months I remember why I left in the first place- the Nanny-state laws, the hating and road rage, and of course the self-entitled, bitchy attitude from a bunch of women who have it better than any group of people in the history of mankind, but want to pretend that they're being victimized if a man looks at their sweater kittens.

[CaptainCrazy]

Why would I want to go back to Soviet Russia? I am a citizen of the world now.

[bacon]

Ive been an expat for 4 years now. I have no plans on living in the US again. In my opinion the longer you stay abroad the less you miss home and the harder it is to imagine returning of living there full time again.

[Eurobrat]

(07-02-2014 09:02 PM)Perdidogringo Wrote:  

Yes, I miss some of the conveniences of the US, but one trip back home per year always convinces me that I'm way better off abroad.

Trip back home? All I have to do is open up the New York Times, Huffington Post, and CNN and I'm instantly convinced that I am better off outside the cuntry.

[Ethan Amarante]

I'll return home when I want a relationship. I can't date a woman who doesn't understand what I'm saying.

[Saga]

(07-03-2014 12:52 PM)Ethan Amarante Wrote:  

I'll return home when I want a relationship. I can't date a woman who doesn't understand what I'm saying.

Even if you don't want to learn a new language, plenty of women outside the US/anglosphere speak English pretty well.

[iknowexactly]

(07-02-2014 08:48 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  

I was also wondering how many split their time 1/2 and 1/2, like a snowbird lifestyle,
in case anyone wants to weigh in on that?

Dispats vs. the Snowbirds

For me the interesting thing is how many, let's call them "Disenchanted Expats" how about Dispats?! there are--let's define them as people who want to come back for less than 2 weeks a year; maybe to see family or handle legal matters- here on a board where if they were anywhere, they'd be here. 14 at this writing, versus 6 "Snowbirds." Maybe we should call them Birdsnowers.

That's like 1% of 1% of 1% of...

Double edged sword, expatriation can't be as appealing as it seems at first thought, but also if you DO IT you are in a very, very small minority and should be able to leverage it. Only the very hottest chicks on Filipina Cupid flat out fail to respond or tell me to pound sand, and I'm ancient.

For me something like living one quarter in the US and three quarters abroad, Would be optimal. Once you have lived in a first world country and dealt with get-things-done people,e you have a higher standard of how well things can work, and how productive you can be.

Also, in poorer countries people are just more pessimistic about what can be done. You want to make A FEATURE FILM? It's just hard for them to imagine someone doing something that costs 100x their monthly salary.

Chicks with slim thighs, tropical weather, and humane child support policies may be very appealing, but for the aspects of your life where you need to get something difficult done quickly, by yourself or someone else, it's often better get it done in a first world country with first world technology, efficiency, and transparency.

People often post as if they have total amnesia about where all the wealth came from in first world countries. They have the jejune belief that all the smart productive people who made the place wealthy have disappeared, it's all going to hell, etc.

This is naive, it took Rome a LONG time to build and to fall apart. Your life span is a fraction of that decline period.

First world countries aren't wealthy because the people are lazy and stupid.

But for most of the days in my life (with the proviso being I have an independent income) which is more important, a cute much-younger chick always available to fuck ( Phils) or lightning fast internet by Google- so I can watch her fuck someone else? (USA)

[iknowexactly]

(07-03-2014 12:56 PM)Saga Wrote:  

(07-03-2014 12:52 PM)Ethan Amarante Wrote:  

I'll return home when I want a relationship. I can't date a woman who doesn't understand what I'm saying.

Even if you don't want to learn a new language, plenty of women outside the US speak English pretty well.

Phils. The smarter girls even understand ironic comments and intentional misuse of words.

[TopPanda]

I spent 10 months in China then Thailand last year, now I'm back in my native UK.

I did have a plan of finding a wife out there, but after dating so many women I kind of burned out of dating for a while.

While I was in Asia I badly screwed up on a couple of IT contracts I found on oDesk, so I realised I needed to go back home and get my career back on track.

I also realised that a wise man knows when it is time to leave Bangkok (or anywhere else for that matter).

I will go abroad again, but I would love to get my career in sync with the ups and downs of the economy. When times are bad, I'll go somewhere and party, then return home when bust has turned to boom again. I think this plan is better than trying to go and scratch out a living overseas (most Asian countries make it hard for foreigners to find jobs).

I don't have any regrets about living overseas for a while though. I've really changed, and for the better. ALL guys should aim to live overseas for a year.

[Ethan Amarante]

(07-03-2014 12:56 PM)Saga Wrote:  

(07-03-2014 12:52 PM)Ethan Amarante Wrote:  

I'll return home when I want a relationship. I can't date a woman who doesn't understand what I'm saying.

Even if you don't want to learn a new language, plenty of women outside the US/anglosphere speak English pretty well.

Of course many do. But trying to find a woman who is articulate enough to have the kind of conversations I find stimulating and a good match in all other respects is a tall order...

... Which, to be honest, is probably one of the major factors behind me getting back into game a couple of years ago when I first moved out of the English-speaking world.

[LeightonBlackstock]

From Britain. Currently living in Thailand (been here for seven months after two equally-timed stints in Korea and Taiwan)

Been in Asia for 22 months now. I will never return to British soil. I don't miss a single thing about Britain and have no ties to drag me back.

The weather is terrible, the people are aggressive and after seeing how much of a 'real-life video game' Asia is, I can never adapt to such a comparably low quality of life.

Also, even if I live to 100, I will have spent 21% of my life in that one country which is too long given the size of the world. There's so much more to life IMO.

I've still got Vietnam, China, Japan, Indonesia, Mongolia, Cambodia, Philippines and Malaysia to live in as my very immediate shortlist. I'll need at least 6 months in each to experience a rough overview of the place. And even then, I'd probably want to spend that length of stint in multiple cities as they're gonna be different. If I complete that list before I hit 30 I'll probably have been going too fast tbh.

I plan to jump country every year until the day I die.

[Constitution45]

(07-03-2014 01:43 PM)LeightonBlackstock Wrote:  

From Britain. Currently living in Thailand (been here for seven months after two equally-timed stints in Korea and Taiwan)

Been in Asia for 22 months now. I will never return to British soil. I don't miss a single thing about Britain and have no ties to drag me back.

The weather is terrible, the people are aggressive and after seeing how much of a 'real-life video game' Asia is, I can never adapt to such a comparably low quality of life.

Also, even if I live to 100, I will have spent 21% of my life in that one country which is too long given the size of the world. There's so much more to life. I've still got Vietnam, China, Japan, Indonesia, Mongolia, Cambodia and Malaysia to live in as my very immediate shortlist. I'll need at least 6 months in each to experience the tip of each place.

I plan to jump country every year until the day I die.

Amen, fellow Britain speaking here, once I finish my university I will be heading out of the country. Having experienced living abroad for a while. The only placed I like is London and that is if you have lots of money, connections and live in a good area close to centre.

[3extra]

Irish. I've spent 3 months of the last 4 years in Ireland. While I miss my friends and family on occasion, it's not enough to justify living there. I don't hate the place, but I never enjoyed living there.

Even though it's about America, this quote from Tropic of Cancer articulates my feelings on Ireland ('home') far better than I ever could;

''It’s best to keep America just like that, always in the background, a sort of picture post card which you look at in a week moment. Like that, you imagine it’s always there waiting for you, unchanged, unspoiled, a big patriotic open space with cows and sheep and tender-hearted men ready to bugger everything in sight, man, woman or beast. It doesn’t exist, America. It’s a name you give to an abstract idea.."

[TheBadGuy]

This is a great thread. As someone who plans to one day spend the majority of my time in another country, it is nice to get some insight on whether people are truly enjoying themselves or not...

[Akula]

(07-02-2014 10:07 PM)Corroncho Wrote:  

I'm an American expat, and two of my favorite things in life are visiting the US and getting the fuck out of it. It really is nice to go home, see family and friends, speak something more than pidgin English, eat a huge variety of international foods, and enjoy the convenience, organization and competence of American society. But usually within a couple of months I remember why I left in the first place- the Nanny-state laws, the hating and road rage, and of course the self-entitled, bitchy attitude from a bunch of women who have it better than any group of people in the history of mankind, but want to pretend that they're being victimized if a man looks at their sweater kittens.

This.

Additionally, if you ever even plan on getting married and having kids the divorce laws alone unfortunately make living full time in American almost a no-go. That and the fact that the US (and UK too I'd say) are becoming quasi police-states pretty quickly - any number of things can end up putting you in jail these days.

I do like the convenience of cheap stores like Costco, Target, etc. and being able to eat ultra-healty (albeit expensively) at grocery stores like Whole Foods. I guess I also miss things like In 'n Out burger and of course my family but that's not enough to want to keep me in a country full of entitled, pampered land whales, Feminism and increasingly mindless, politically correct 'progressives.'

I will say I definitely need my 2-3 weeks per year being back home and if I didn't get that I'd miss it more.

[xpatplayer]

Expat from India. No plans to move back permanently, even though I don't plan on relinquishing my citizenship. Investment laws are biased in favor of Indian citizens and there's a tremendous amount of money to be made from investments.

But can't see myself staying in the country for more than 30 days a year.

[Brodiaga]

Russian expat in the US.

I like it here in general, otherwise I wouldn't be here. However, if I were in my early 20s again I would probably try my luck in Moscow instead of moving abroad. I am not from Moscow originally, so moving there would have been difficult also, but chances are I would have done better career-wise and gotten laid a lot more with more attractive girls.

Why don't I move there now, you might ask? I guess I could, but I'm too used to my life here. My successful peers who stayed in Russia have already bought or inherited real estate, made connections which I don't have, built their professional reputation, etc. I would have to join the rat race, which is more competitive and brutal in Russia than here, at the very start. Besides, there are too many things other than money and girls which are shocking to me when I visit home. I still feel like a foreigner here, but I am already a foreigner there as well.

Having tried dating in the US with both Russian and American girls, I can't see myself staying here full time in my 40s and 50s unless something unexpected happens that makes me change my mind. I don't want to start a family in this environment (wouldn't want to do it in modern Russia, either). I realize that if I stay single and continue living here, at some point I will become invisible even to moderately attractive women. My hope is to be able to move to South East Asia before that happens, ether to retire, semi-retire or work remotely.

[Onto]

As someone who's about to make his first 6+ month journey outside the US it's great to read everyone's positive experiences. I have to admit, I'm a bit scared to quit a well paying gig, sell possessions I hold dear, and just board that plane into the unknown. Though I've read a lot about Asia it's still, for me, the unknown. Will it be great? Will it be a disappointment? Is it true you take yourself with you wherever you go, or is it true the world is composed of opposites and Asia is everything the West is not, or is it both, or neither?

I can still back out, and I've gone back and forth a lot these past few months, but yesterday I gave notice to the building I'll be moving out Aug 31st. That's a first step. Next step will be selling my guitar, turntable and car. I don't have to sell them I suppose, but I feel I NEED to. Then comes the 2 week notice to work, then buying the plane ticket.

The plane ticket is the big one for me. I could do it now, and get a one way to Manilla for 1/2 the price of regular, but until I have the logistics of my car sorted out it's hard. Maybe I'm making it harder than it has to be, I don't know. Maybe I haven't committed fully yet, it's hard, but it really shouldn't be.

It's one thing to read the posts by members here and say to yourself, with bravado, "Yeah, I'm going to do that too!", it's quite another to actually do it, and I do feel a good amount of fear, but any real adventure is that way.

[Suits]

Possibly, but not for a while.

I will only go back to Canada if doing so comes with a higher standard of living than what I can establish for myself in Asia.

Since I can have a very high standard of living in Asia with a bit of hard work, I'd only really be able to considering heading back to Canada after I gain full written and spoken fluency in Chinese. At that point, I may be competitive for jobs that pay enough to earn me a comparably better lifestyle in Canada.

However, I am in no hurry. I figured I'd be headed back to Canada three years from now at the absolutely minimum.

More likely, if I tire of mainland China, I'll go to Taiwan, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam or ideally, Hong Kong.

[Bushido]

In my experience, most expats begin to question things around the 4-5 year mark.

Don't throw away your passport just yet.