[Mekorig]

(06-07-2014 10:58 AM)Dulceácido Wrote:  

If you don't get extremely paranoid and fear for your own safety in a situation like this, you won't be a "world traveler" for very long.

I would not call it an aspect of a "world traveler", but a requered trait for survival in Argentina. And that is considering that we get it better than other places of the continent.

[rishboy77]

(06-08-2014 12:07 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

(06-08-2014 11:55 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

weeks in Kiev is insane.You can get at least one bang every two days there.

Yes but is this semi-P4P bangs with gifts?

Keep in mind that most guys here don't do that.

Not exactly.It is a multi level one.Many Kiev girls are prone to SNLs without material rewards.There are many variations of girls expectations for example if you pay 100 euro on sushi restaurant and cocktails or 100 euro on her drinks in clubs what is the difference?Some say there is difference.Anyway the whole issue of support and pomoc is a rather complicated one in all slavic countries.
Actually an advantage of Moscow is that it has become so expensive that sex tourists can no longer afford it.By national policy it gets less and less tourists each year and the visa becomes more expensive.So a foreigner has become a kind of novelty and a businessman story is very well perceived while in Kiev girls automatically put you in sex tourist category no matter what you tell them.Girls in Moscow believe that you come for business since most foreigners are actually businessmen who can afford the trip.

I agree with GK on the general concept that this is a "grey area" when it comes to Slavic countries and the men are expected to pay the expenses. The key is to avoid girls that want expensive dinners, gifts, trips, etc that said I have had girls from smaller towns that paid their own way to Kiev and never asked me for a dime but I paid for the expenses when they stayed with me.

However getting a "bang every 2 days" claimed by Greek... depends on high or how your low standards are but possible.

[shotgun]

(06-06-2014 12:09 AM)Akula Wrote:  

RS is def a drunkfest and gets crazy after 2am in my experience. I'm a Gypsy fan but it got harder to get into last year not sure what it's like this summer.

Interesting, my experience was the opposite when I was there in August. Got FC'ed at Rolling Stone the one time I tried to get into, but the three times I went to Gypsy I got in without any problems.

[Constitution45]

(06-08-2014 12:39 PM)shotgun Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 12:09 AM)Akula Wrote:  

RS is def a drunkfest and gets crazy after 2am in my experience. I'm a Gypsy fan but it got harder to get into last year not sure what it's like this summer.

Interesting, my experience was the opposite when I was there in August. Got FC'ed at Rolling Stone the one time I tried to get into, but the three times I went to Gypsy I got in without any problems.

Is rolling stone the same club where the police did a raid on it earlier this year ? checking everyone's I.Ds ?

Anyone ever tried Papas or Old school around Kitay Gorod ?

[Greek kamaki]

It is totally possible to get a bang every 2 days in Kiev.Most guys never make the effort needed because it is exhausting(imagine 3-4 dates with different girls in a row then clubbing,2 hour sleep and then hitting the streets for daygame).
If Courage did nightgame he would barely stand on his feet after 3 days.

[TripleG]

(06-08-2014 12:53 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

It is totally possible to get a bang every 2 days in Kiev.Most guys never make the effort needed because it is exhausting(imagine 3-4 dates with different girls in a row then clubbing,2 hour sleep and then hitting the streets for daygame).
If Courage did nightgame he would barely stand on his feet after 3 days.

I did day game and night game for 2.5 days without sleep in Kiev...approaching 50 hours. On the "3rd day" I showed up for a coffee date with a 6.5 and started snoozing off in the middle of coffee/conversation. The date did not last long afterward. lol

[Greek kamaki]

When I was younger I did unbelievable connoiseurisms with nights in row without sleep and pick up under the sun in the beach.However as you get older the endurance actually leaves you after two nights you become sick.

[TripleG]

I wonder if some of these were forum members. lol
Video shows an HB female reporter undercover walking around Moscow and being approached by random guys trying to pick her up.I hear this is especially bad now with the immigrant guys from Caucasus regions and the borderline sexual harassment some exhibit.

[Courage Reborn]

^ dupe video post

And I have not witnessed a single day approach since I've been here. I believe that's mostly staged.

(06-08-2014 10:57 AM)TripleG Wrote:  

I have read and re-read Courage Reborns other posts and have to conclude that based on his writings (i've never met the guy) he is an extremely experienced player and I doubt his extremely high success rate can be replicated by everyone else here who thinks they can just land in Moscow, go to Gorky park, say a sentence in Russian and convert to an instadate.

I realize how you & other guys could read this as a moscow hype thread. There is a lot to like in Moscow, but it's not all gravy. I've been here a week now, so I'll try to clarify reality and some anti hype.

(06-08-2014 10:57 AM)TripleG Wrote:  

Even Slubu's historic trip from last year was not a "walk in the park" and Slubu went out like a mad men and even complained of this type of lifestyle taking a toll on his health and would keep us intrigued and glued to this forum about both his successes but also failures.

This is funny for me to read, because I've been busting my ass out here. But rather than spending energy on approaching like in other cities, I'm spending it on the dates themselves. Getting dates here in Moscow is EZ mode. Closing however, takes more work. In the end, total number of notches probably will equal a city like NYC, where this is reversed.

As for Slubu, of the dozen or so guys I have met from this forum, he has some of the best game, looks, and work ethic I've seen. We both play at a relatively high level, but our sport is different. He's a creature of the night. I make it happen while the sun is out. You can't make an apples to apples trip comparison.

(06-08-2014 10:57 AM)TripleG Wrote:  

I am 99% sure that most other guys on these forums would not be succeeding anywhere near as much as Courage in Moscow.

It's difficult to qualify this, because most guys will never learn Russian, see the visa process through, or pony up all the cash.

(06-08-2014 10:57 AM)TripleG Wrote:  

Shoot, an HB 20 year old insta-dating Courage while he is casually sitting on the bench? That to me is hard to believe. I was talking to a senior member of the forums last night and he confirmed what I was thinking and that is that Moscow is hyped up too much on these forums (he was there last year and had success but nowhere near what the others are claiming).

This was a shock to me as well. I don't know if it will happen to me again. But every day in Moscow so far has been filled with surprises. For day game, this place is like an untapped land of opportunities. "Opportunities" is really the operative word when it comes to Moscow.

(06-08-2014 10:57 AM)TripleG Wrote:  

For example, I visited another similar city last year (Kiev) twice with a buddy of mine and we went out like crazy, doing both day game and night game. We were given "private" tours of the city by girls we met while day-gaming, we got invited to meet their family's and I infiltrated their social circles and made plenty of friends who want me to go back to UA BUT it was a lot of work!. I am talking about not sleeping for 40+ hours due to constant going out and partying, spending easily $150+ per day on lifestyle, and having to deal with many phone flakes, mental games, and shit tests. It was exhausting and the fact that I could only spend 2 weeks in a place took an emotional toll on not just me but the girls I met. That's even with my logistics being perfect and having a place next to Arena center with huge balcony overlooking Khreshchatyk.

I have lived in the same place as you, in the same city. Moscow is less work. Just take my word for it.

(06-08-2014 10:57 AM)TripleG Wrote:  

Perhaps Courage Reborn looks like a million dollars but I honestly question the ease of some of his day reports. What I would love to see is for Roosh to visit either Moscow or St. Pete in the near future and to confirm these observations.

I don't think I look like $1M. Maybe a solid $100k+. On a good day. When I've had my beauty sleep. And not suffering from level 10 jet lag.

I look forward to seeing his observations as well. Different opinions is what makes this travel forum great. Different people have different things to say about the same place.

(06-08-2014 11:53 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I am guessing Courage spends more than 3000 euro every week.Most guys simply cannot afford it.

Not even close. But I am definitely spending well over $100 per day after rent & food.

[Greek kamaki]

Less than 2500 euro per week including accomodation and food?How much do you spend on each date on average?How many dates per day?

[Courage Reborn]

The anti-hype

#1. Sexually conservative

While I am averaging 2.5 dates per day, I've only taken down 2 birds in the week I've been here. 1 was a certified freak. The other I had to plow through hours of last minute resistance. Only half my dates even kiss. The slower pace of Russian women makes American women look like whores in comparison. Getting over finish line here is, generally, a helluva lot more effort than in a western city. But getting dates in the first place is harder back west. So frequency of new sex actually balances out to the same. 1st & 2nd date layups seem to be few & far between. Also keep in mind, that I'm screening for a mother of children. I simply dont have the energy or interest to follow up with 3-5 dates on a 7 who doesn't have this potential. The girl needs to be super down, otherwise, I'd rather just go fishing for a new one with better potential.

#2. Smoke & Mirrors

After 1 week, I don't even think russian women are that beautiful anymore. I'm sure I'll change my tune after heading back west, but for now, my expectations are re-adjusted, and I can't go back. It's amazing the effect that simply not being fat has on a young population. That said, the older women blow up like balloons. Russian women do not age well under any criteria.

For every 1 girl with model bone structure and a perfect figure, I see at least 10 others who are slovenlies, uglies, hipsters, or a combination of all of the above. It's mostly a land of 6's & 7's. Similar to NYC, Moscow has beauty primarily because of it's brute force numbers approach, ie. a metro population of 15+ million people. Secondarily, because of strong makeup, high heels & sluttier clothing.

#3. Everything is on your shoulders

On a date, you have to spit game 24/7, or the 2 of you will sit in silence. Most Russian women will make zero effort to carry a conversation. In addition, you pay for everything. Even tips. Only 2 or 3 girls have made a token gesture to pay for a date. A day date runs me $30 on average. Night date $60. And I don't do "dinner"

[Greek kamaki]

Only 60$?Very interesting.I think I am coming to Moscow on July.I think if you did dinners you would lay them faster but then again I do not know and it is expensive.

[TripleG]

Courage, +1 for answering my questions.

On a date, you have to spit game 24/7, or the 2 of you will sit in silence. Most Russian women will make zero effort to carry a conversation. In addition, you pay for everything. Even tips. Only 2 or 3 girls have made a token gesture to pay for a date. A day date runs me $30 on average. Night date $60. I don't do "dinner"

My observation was the same with UA women, both in Kiev & Odessa. Asking them questions and watching them stumble for answers can make even a sane man go crazy (and that is with me speaking advanced Russian and not using much English). It took me many dates to realize that I cannot keep debating or having "phylosophical" talk like I frequently do with my co-workers in USA. I had to talk about mundane stuff like the weather, music, and their work. It drove me crazy every day.

[jimukr104]

(06-08-2014 03:30 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

Courage, +1 for answering my questions.

On a date, you have to spit game 24/7, or the 2 of you will sit in silence. Most Russian women will make zero effort to carry a conversation. In addition, you pay for everything. Even tips. Only 2 or 3 girls have made a token gesture to pay for a date. A day date runs me $30 on average. Night date $60. I don't do "dinner"

My observation was the same with UA women, both in Kiev & Odessa. Asking them questions and watching them stumble for answers can make even a sane man go crazy (and that is with me speaking advanced Russian and not using much English). It took me many dates to realize that I cannot keep debating or having "phylosophical" talk like I frequently do with my co-workers in USA. I had to talk about mundane stuff like the weather, music, and their work. It drove me crazy every day.

True...where you learn advance Russian?

If that is the case... memorize 2-3 antedotes and some Pushkin and that will really make them smile. I use to do Pushkin's drinking poem and toasting.

Then after she compliments you and starts babbling..you can just DA , DA DA.

[young_money]

(06-08-2014 03:47 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(06-08-2014 03:30 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

Courage, +1 for answering my questions.

On a date, you have to spit game 24/7, or the 2 of you will sit in silence. Most Russian women will make zero effort to carry a conversation. In addition, you pay for everything. Even tips. Only 2 or 3 girls have made a token gesture to pay for a date. A day date runs me $30 on average. Night date $60. I don't do "dinner"

My observation was the same with UA women, both in Kiev & Odessa. Asking them questions and watching them stumble for answers can make even a sane man go crazy (and that is with me speaking advanced Russian and not using much English). It took me many dates to realize that I cannot keep debating or having "phylosophical" talk like I frequently do with my co-workers in USA. I had to talk about mundane stuff like the weather, music, and their work. It drove me crazy every day.

True...where you learn advance Russian?

If that is the case... memorize 2-3 antedotes and some Pushkin and that will really make them smile. I use to do Pushkin's drinking poem and toasting.

Then after she compliments you and starts babbling..you can just DA , DA DA.

And if you're limited to English and basic Russian, how else can you open them up a bit?

[DaveR]

(06-08-2014 03:22 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

#2. Smoke & Mirrors

After 1 week, I don't even think russian women are that beautiful anymore. I'm sure I'll change my tune after heading back west, but for now, my expectations are re-adjusted, and I can't go back. It's amazing the effect that simply not being fat has on a young population. That said, the older women blow up like balloons. Russian women do not age well under any criteria.

It always takes time to become attuned to a new place. The Russian Summer makes it very difficult due to the women showing off every asset they have... You were likely overwhelmed with the amount of nippleage, g-strings showing through, short skirts, low-cut tops, long hair, etc. Even the average girls can draw a lot of attention by dressing that way.

The late Spring and early Summer is always a busy time for Russian girls - there's a lot of competition and they feel that they need to 'catch' a man before all the good ones are taken. Something similar happens late in Autumn when the temperature drops. At that time they worry about being alone in Winter due to the social scene being much quieter.

[DaveR]

(06-08-2014 09:57 PM)young_money Wrote:  

And if you're limited to English and basic Russian, how else can you open them up a bit?

"Russian soul." Hang around older, cultured Russian men and watch how they entertain their women.

[young_money]

(06-09-2014 11:07 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

(06-08-2014 09:57 PM)young_money Wrote:  

And if you're limited to English and basic Russian, how else can you open them up a bit?

"Russian soul." Hang around older, cultured Russian men and watch how they entertain their women.

Good advice - observing success is usually the best path to getting success. I'm just not in a position yet to be able to observe.

I guess my confusion is between what I understood as the role of the man - strong silent, dominant, cool, collected, etc and the role that it appears is being expected from guys on the ground.

When I hear quotes like..

Courage Reborn Wrote:

On a date, you have to spit game 24/7, or the 2 of you will sit in silence. Most Russian women will make zero effort to carry a conversation.

...I'm thinking - Why is the man required to put on the show and do all the talking with no compliance from the woman - if they are really looking for the strong silent powerful type?

I'm confident, successful, and dominant, but I'm also an INTP (Myers-Briggs). I naturally get exhausted if I'm forced to carry all of the conversation and why would I want to or even allow it?

I don't want to spit game 24/7 on a date - I don't want to put on a show. I can't stand that kind of American mentality. Does she really want someone that needy? I simply want to enjoy myself, be respected, talk about travel, food, culture or kick that bitch to the curb if she's out of line.

I have to assume it's either a shit test, more likely faced by foreign guys, as a way to filter the weak and users OR the women naturally just don't enjoy talking about so many things. ???

If it is a shit test, and not shyness or just a cultural difference, I wouldn't keep talking while she said nothing - I would politely say something about it and start looking around the restaurant/bar for a better option.

Overall, I'm just wondering if this is the land of the confident INTP that extremely dislikes small talk, blabbering, pretentiousness, and values culture, intellect, and quite confidence or IF being outgoing is valued more than I had understood.

[samsamsam]

(06-08-2014 03:22 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

The slower pace of Russian women makes American women look like whores in comparison.

I thought American girls were whores anyway without comparing to anyone else?

As always much respect to you for sharing and challenging yourself. Thanks.

[DaveR]

(06-09-2014 12:29 PM)young_money Wrote:  

...I'm thinking - Why is the man required to put on the show and do all the talking with no compliance from the woman - if they are really looking for the strong silent powerful type?

Because Russians are more cultured and intellectual than most other nationalities. Theatre, opera, reading, classical music, etc. are more popular in Russia than any other country I know of.

They're not really looking for silent personalities, but rather for intelligent/smart, no-BS guys. Think about what Putin is like - he isn't quiet, but when he talks it's always because he has something to say. In contrast to the Anglo countries, acting dumb/cocky absolutely does not work in Russia.

The same doesn't really apply in Ukraine or in the smaller cities of Southern Russia, in my experience.

[pechorin]

Agree.

Russian women are often great conversationalists. Any evening with a Russian girl (even if it does not end in sex) is interesting and often educational. I find their intelligence, or at least their cultural knowledge, astounding, even among the ditzier ones. Most are very well read in my experience, and by-and-large, far more learned in classical arts (literature, painting, music) than Western or American girls.

Nonetheless I would disagree about Ukraine women being very different. It's a bit of a stereotype IMO. I guess that it depends what kind of girls you target.

[warder]

Killing it CR! I definitely gotta get out to Moscow sometime. Definitely hit me up next time you are back in NYC. Would love to get more details on the trip.

Keep up the good work and reports back!

[Greek kamaki]

(06-09-2014 01:52 PM)pechorin Wrote:  

Agree.

Russian women are often great conversationalists. Any evening with a Russian girl (even if it does not end in sex) is interesting and often educational. I find their intelligence, or at least their cultural knowledge, astounding, even among the ditzier ones. Most are very well read in my experience, and by-and-large, far more learned in classical arts (literature, painting, music) than Western or American girls.

Nonetheless I would disagree about Ukraine women being very different. It's a bit of a stereotype IMO. I guess that it depends what kind of girls you target.

Generally most slavic women are great conversationalists.This is one of the reasons for their appeal.Since they did not have property to offer they should develop their beauty and conversational skills.This is the reason sometimes they seem more attractive than they actually are.

[Greek kamaki]

(06-08-2014 03:22 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

The anti-hype

#1. Sexually conservative

While I am averaging 2.5 dates per day, I've only taken down 2 birds in the week I've been here. 1 was a certified freak. The other I had to plow through hours of last minute resistance. Only half my dates even kiss. The slower pace of Russian women makes American women look like whores in comparison. Getting over finish line here is, generally, a helluva lot more effort than in a western city. But getting dates in the first place is harder back west. So frequency of new sex actually balances out to the same. 1st & 2nd date layups seem to be few & far between. Also keep in mind, that I'm screening for a mother of children. I simply dont have the energy or interest to follow up with 3-5 dates on a 7 who doesn't have this potential. The girl needs to be super down, otherwise, I'd rather just go fishing for a new one with better potential.

#2. Smoke & Mirrors

After 1 week, I don't even think russian women are that beautiful anymore. I'm sure I'll change my tune after heading back west, but for now, my expectations are re-adjusted, and I can't go back. It's amazing the effect that simply not being fat has on a young population. That said, the older women blow up like balloons. Russian women do not age well under any criteria.

For every 1 girl with model bone structure and a perfect figure, I see at least 10 others who are slovenlies, uglies, hipsters, or a combination of all of the above. It's mostly a land of 6's & 7's. Similar to NYC, Moscow has beauty primarily because of it's brute force numbers approach, ie. a metro population of 15+ million people. Secondarily, because of strong makeup, high heels & sluttier clothing.

#3. Everything is on your shoulders

On a date, you have to spit game 24/7, or the 2 of you will sit in silence. Most Russian women will make zero effort to carry a conversation. In addition, you pay for everything. Even tips. Only 2 or 3 girls have made a token gesture to pay for a date. A day date runs me $30 on average. Night date $60. And I don't do "dinner"

If you spoke Russian it would be different.Russian women are machine guns when they talk.They never stop.

[jimukr104]

(06-09-2014 01:44 PM)DaveR Wrote:  

(06-09-2014 12:29 PM)young_money Wrote:  

...I'm thinking - Why is the man required to put on the show and do all the talking with no compliance from the woman - if they are really looking for the strong silent powerful type?

Because Russians are more cultured and intellectual than most other nationalities. Theatre, opera, reading, classical music, etc. are more popular in Russia than any other country I know of.

They're not really looking for silent personalities, but rather for intelligent/smart, no-BS guys. Think about what Putin is like - he isn't quiet, but when he talks it's always because he has something to say. In contrast to the Anglo countries, acting dumb/cocky absolutely does not work in Russia.

The same doesn't really apply in Ukraine or in the smaller cities of Southern Russia, in my experience.

Agreed.....

Common saying over there:

"We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak."

It should be added that it is even ok to have moments of silence. unlike America, silence isn't awkward if in moderation.

Tbh Russian/FSU women are too chatty if you see how they chat with their same sex friends. Same for the male gender. That is why social circle is important.