[Courage Reborn]

Just go to Moscow.

That's my new advice to anyone from the west with an interest in Eastern European women.

Today I went to find a gym. An adorable blonde Siberian girl showed me around, and after hearing I was from the US, pursued me aggressively. She's already planned our Saturday together to show me sights around the city. This has never happened to me before. And I'm 15 years older than her. (PS Sticker shock at $180 per month.) She asked for my number, when we got away from her manager. I thought that was crazy. But then...

A few hours later a girl insta-dated *herself* without me even asking. I was sitting on a bench checking work email on my phone, and a tall sexy 20 y/o brunette with heels sat down next to me, and asked something in Russian. I didn't understand, but we were able to switch to English, and a few minutes later she suggested we have a coffee!! Guys, I'm not even some super good looking dude. This never happened to me before.

It's just seemingly never ending opportunity. All I have to do is leave the house, put in minimal effort, and shit is going down. I don't have enough sperm in my body or energy to follow up with all the opportunities here. A western guy, with a bankroll that can survive the local costs, is the grand prize to these women. Their eyes light up light christmas trees. And they are so feminine & sweet. Gold diggers? Maybe I've been lucky, but no one has tried to scam me yet. Maybe it's only like this in the summer? But my prevailing thought...what if St. Petersberg is better? Is that even possible?

Conversation with my host today:
"Russian woman? They are our treasures. The reason is because in the west, the most beautiful ones were burned as witches. Not so for ours."

[Greek kamaki]

Courage how would you compare Moscow to Kiev for daygame?I had Belarussian girls tell me how open the girls in Moscow and St. Peter are for daygame contrary to Belarus and I did not believe it.

[Constitution45]

(06-05-2014 08:46 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

Courage/Slubu, can you guys comment at all on age difference. For example, is a 10 year age gap acceptable in Moscow as it would be in Kiev. Would a 35 year old guy be accused off as being creepy if he were to approach 21 year old's in public places?

I saw a 60 year old man chat up a group of 20 year olds outside Novokuznetskaya, central Moscow, he dominated the conversation, held his frame and got them laughing.

Age is not a problem, if anything being older helps you out a lot. I am in my early 20s, but a lot of the older guys in their 30's were getting the same girls I was getting.

[Akula]

(06-06-2014 05:14 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

(06-05-2014 08:46 PM)TripleG Wrote:  

Courage/Slubu, can you guys comment at all on age difference. For example, is a 10 year age gap acceptable in Moscow as it would be in Kiev. Would a 35 year old guy be accused off as being creepy if he were to approach 21 year old's in public places?

I saw a 60 year old man chat up a group of 20 year olds outside Novokuznetskaya, central Moscow, he dominated the conversation, held his frame and got them laughing.

Age is not a problem, if anything being older helps you out a lot. I am in my early 20s, but a lot of the older guys in their 30's were getting the same girls I was getting.

^^^ it was never an issue for me in Moscow except maybe for the 18-19 year olds who at this point I'm a little too old for anyway.

Keep in mind that the average Russian guy is either dead or a total mess by age 50 anyway so they are not used to guys being all that old!

[Lothario]

+ 1 Courage Reborn, Glad to see you are getting results daygaming in Moscow, Slubu and his friend did a trip to motherland last year and he got results from night game but knowing slubu he doesn't do day game.

Your reports are hyping up Moscow and a little different as most players concentrate on night game in Moscow and peter.

Can't wait for roosh to get to Moscow and hear his take on day game in Moscow.

[Roosh]

Quote:

Can't wait for roosh to get to Moscow and hear his take on day game in Moscow.

I think I'm going to hit St Pete first.

[arnoux]

(06-06-2014 03:10 AM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

Just go to Moscow.

That's my new advice to anyone from the west with an interest in Eastern European women.

Today I went to find a gym. An adorable blonde Siberian girl showed me around, and after hearing I was from the US, pursued me aggressively. She's already planned our Saturday together to show me sights around the city. This has never happened to me before. And I'm 15 years older than her. (PS Sticker shock at $180 per month.) She asked for my number, when we got away from her manager. I thought that was crazy. But then...

A few hours later a girl insta-dated *herself* without me even asking. I was sitting on a bench checking work email on my phone, and a tall sexy 20 y/o brunette with heels sat down next to me, and asked something in Russian. I didn't understand, but we were able to switch to English, and a few minutes later she suggested we have a coffee!! Guys, I'm not even some super good looking dude. This never happened to me before.

It's just seemingly never ending opportunity. All I have to do is leave the house, put in minimal effort, and shit is going down. I don't have enough sperm in my body or energy to follow up with all the opportunities here. A western guy, with a bankroll that can survive the local costs, is the grand prize to these women. Their eyes light up light christmas trees. And they are so feminine & sweet. Gold diggers? Maybe I've been lucky, but no one has tried to scam me yet. Maybe it's only like this in the summer? But my prevailing thought...what if St. Petersberg is better? Is that even possible?

Conversation with my host today:
"Russian woman? They are our treasures. The reason is because in the west, the most beautiful ones were burned as witches. Not so for ours."

It is the usual impression when you arrive in Moscow - I mean the possibility to easily date good loocking girls - but after sometimes here you understand that the easy ones are actually the average ones (for russia), and if you hang out in trendy places you have this constant frustration to see that the top of the top go only with rich and connected russian guys and you loose themotivation to date the 6 or 7 that you were so happy to fuck when you arrive

[Constitution45]

I don't buy into this whole "beauty in the eye of the beholder" bullshit but in Russia the value of women is so high, that I believe it ones down to personal taste. True what you are saying though, the 10s are picked up by the Russian alphas.

[Mekorig]

Quote:

A few hours later a girl insta-dated *herself* without me even asking. I was sitting on a bench checking work email on my phone, and a tall sexy 20 y/o brunette with heels sat down next to me, and asked something in Russian. I didn't understand, but we were able to switch to English, and a few minutes later she suggested we have a coffee!! Guys, I'm not even some super good looking dude. This never happened to me before.

This kind of situation would make all my scam/robbing/kidnaping internal alarms go crazy.

[Courage Reborn]

(06-06-2014 04:41 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Courage how would you compare Moscow to Kiev for daygame?I had Belarussian girls tell me how open the girls in Moscow and St. Peter are for daygame contrary to Belarus and I did not believe it.

Greek, here are my broad generalizations. This comparison is based on my experience living in city center of both cities:

English speaking attractive girls
M: 75%-85% speak english
K: 30%-45% speak english

English speaking general population
M: 50%
K: 25%

Money, wealth, disposable income
M: relatively high
K: low

Food
M: not so good
K: not much better

Cost
M: expensive as fuck
K: relatively affordable, but still poor value

Safety
M: I feel totally safe
K: usually feeling nervous

Desperation to find a man
M: noticeable
K: extreme

Ass
M: smaller & tighter
K: bowchica bow wow curves & hips

Style
M: ultra sexy
K: super sexy

Boobs
M: nice handful
K: very nice handful

Face
M: models, angular, princesses
K: softer, rounder, welcoming

Personality
M: sweet, sophisticated, cosmopolitan
K: sweet, simple, naive

Travel
M: worldly
K: local

Guys/competition
M: dick swinging alphas who do not give a fuck and are treated like kings
K: hard working omegas trying to live up to expectations

Daygame
M: 10/10
K: 8/10

Nightlife
M: ?
K: ? - sausagefests

Online
M: 7/10
K: 7/10


tl;dr Both great, but I've gotta give the edge to Moscow.

[Courage Reborn]

Quality:

Maybe not on this visit, but I will probably choose the mother of my children from this country.

And if you think you know Russian & Ukranian women from dealing with them in tier 1 Western cities, you don't. They don't count. They are a completely different breed. Like some evil science experiment gone horribly wrong. They still look good, but the personality and sweetness gets all but destroyed in the conversion process.

I would never bring a Russian woman to a big US city. If I do bring one back, it will be to small-town USA. Far from the poisonous environment and feminist influences. Or maybe central Europe. Or Estonia. Or maybe keep her in Russia and pay for a private English school? I don't know. What do you guys think is the best environment for family? Probably getting ahead of myself. The quality is just so much better out here.


Couples Mismatches;

I thought it was bad in Kiev, but there are more beautiful girls here walking with (and clearly in love with) painfully average and well below average looking men. Their expectations are just more...normal. Unlike big western cities, where if you're not at or near the top of the looks & socio-economic food chain (and even then), good luck pal!

[attachment=19126]
Typical for Moscow

[unbowed]

(06-06-2014 04:36 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

And if you think you know Russian & Ukranian women from dealing with them in tier 1 Western cities, you don't. They don't count. They are a completely different breed. Like some evil science experiment gone horribly wrong. They still look good, but the personality and sweetness gets all but destroyed in the conversion process.

You're really not making me want to stay in the USA right now.

[Courage Reborn]

(06-06-2014 02:52 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

This kind of situation would make all my scam/robbing/kidnaping internal alarms go crazy.

Yes. I had the same gut reaction. But it turned out she was a journalist, into art, and all around cool girl.

I think if you simply stay out of the night clubs, the whole gold digger, scammer thing is hardly a thing at all.

[jimukr104]

Quote:

would never bring a Russian woman to a big US city. If I do bring one back, it will be to small-town USA. Far from the poisonous environment and feminist influences. Or maybe central Europe. Or Estonia. Or maybe keep her in Russia and pay for a private English school? I don't know. What do you guys think is the best environment for family? Probably getting ahead of myself. The quality is just so much better out here.

Actually tbh if you wamnt it to work unless she is a farm girl and you bring her back to a small farm town it probably won't work.

You might think I am crazy, but I will repeat what I have said before, if you want it to work and she is sincere about you, you MUST bring her to NYC or another immigrant city.

Explanation: she goes to small town USA she will be bored and miss her culture, home, and country men.

DIsadvantage of small town USA is beign different will cause a situation where she is forced to assimilate. Old Russian saying " odd nail must be hammered".

In NYC and other immigrant cities immigrants aren't force to assimilate so most don't. In fact even their children often don't.

My brother ia married to a chinese girl born in America. She isn't exactly like most Americans. Hr parents don't even speak english after 40 years here.

The Russians/Ukrainians still think they are in Kiev/Moscow here circa 1991. Seriously, they read Russian papers, speak Russain, etc. They get good high paying jobs but the majority go home to Brooklyn on the Q train and there is no feminism in the home.

On the local Russian radio they cal in saying "feminists are unhappy ugly women". Often their children who come very young or even born here still act feminine at home because they grow up in the culture.

The FSU girls when in their community don't change as much as when they leave.

I suspect the Brazilians and others are the same.

Reminds me of the Italians in Staten Island and new Jersey still talking about the old country although they never visited lol. Think Sorpranos.

When you meet a Russian in Texas or another American city they completely assimilate and start behaving badly. Or they run to NYC to meet a Russian guy since they can't cope.

I suspect Russian area of Miami(very materialistic ones I heard though) or Philly wouldn't be as bad since they have a community. But with 1 million strong in NYC area they really don't have a reason to assimilate.

[Akula]

(06-06-2014 04:36 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

Quality:

Maybe not on this visit, but I will probably choose the mother of my children from this country.

And if you think you know Russian & Ukranian women from dealing with them in tier 1 Western cities, you don't. They don't count. They are a completely different breed. Like some evil science experiment gone horribly wrong. They still look good, but the personality and sweetness gets all but destroyed in the conversion process.

I would never bring a Russian woman to a big US city. If I do bring one back, it will be to small-town USA. Far from the poisonous environment and feminist influences. Or maybe central Europe. Or Estonia. Or maybe keep her in Russia and pay for a private English school? I don't know. What do you guys think is the best environment for family? Probably getting ahead of myself. The quality is just so much better out here.


Couples Mismatches;

I thought it was bad in Kiev, but there are more beautiful girls here walking with (and clearly in love with) painfully average and well below average looking men. Their expectations are just more...normal. Unlike big western cities, where if you're not at or near the top of the looks & socio-economic food chain (and even then), good luck pal!


Typical for Moscow

I hear you loud and clear. Moscow girls are a breed apart from girls from the provinces and I always focused on the latter. That's not to say that both have their own charm.

I'd never bring a Russian girl back to a major US metro area, and I still wonder if I could bring them back to anywhere in the US at all. Jimukr's points are valid but I'd still worry about NYC and in any case it's really expensive there. Europe would be a better choice if for no other reason than they'd be closer to home/relatives etc. Sure it would be so much easier for me to bring 'em back to the good ole US of A but I seriously doubt that would ever work at this point.

RE the 'busted dudes' with hot girls it's a recent phenomenon I'm sure, and if you step back and take a 10,000 foot view I think it's a bit of an anomaly, and in the Sovietsky Soyeuz it was not all that different. But back then your average guy had a real good chance at bagging a pretty in-shape, attractive and feminine women who wanted a family etc.

Hell, 40-50 years ago in the US I get the sense that there were plenty of skinny, attractive girls. I remember some older guys I knew 20 years ago expounding on the nice 'mix' of ethnic girls from the States and how attractive (and feminine) they all were. When I see the photos of my granny and great aunts etc. I literally see ZERO overweight women in America and I'm not kidding. None. Yeah many got fat later in life but through the 50s and 60s and early 70s there were mostly skinny girls.

If US girls were even halfway there to what they used to be most of us would not be forced to game overseas and the 'relative value' of Russian/Ukrainian/Polish girls wouldn't be so great. Sad but true. I guess that's where we are at today.

[Constitution45]

I am pleased the thread is addressing this issue. A couple years back, I had a girlfriend from Eastern Europe, she lived in the U.K, but stayed within her native circles of friends. However when she changed city to work for a business company, all her friends and colleagues were these sassy "You go girrrrrl" English girls. Needless to say, she transformed in the period of two weeks. Began shit testing me and just being plain rude to me.

Remember a lot of these Western women are only bad looking and out of shape, because of their attitudes and beliefs they hold. But most of all its just the attitude, even if you go on a date with one of these "real women" and it doesn't escalate, you still get something out of it. Interacting with a feminine woman is fun, and makes you feel like a man.

But to sum it up, It would be too much hassle to bring a EE girl back to babylon, unless she has a strong circle of friends from her home country. This feminism shit is just embedded in the culture. Damn I have even see muslim girls riding the casserole with gangster degenerates, and these are ones who just went to university in a different part of the city.

I am in my early 20s, so its still a while off until I raise a family, but I have been wondering this question myself. There are a lot of good locations in Balkans, that can be exotic and still have a strong traditional element. Its a tough one, this all begs the question, of whether Eastern Europe and other places that are similar, will turn into the West. I believe that the damaging effects in the West, will become all too clear soon when the money begin to dry up.

[rudebwoy]

^ Very wise and very true.

It's a gamble which I would not take myself.

[Mekorig]

(06-06-2014 04:50 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:52 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

This kind of situation would make all my scam/robbing/kidnaping internal alarms go crazy.

Yes. I had the same gut reaction. But it turned out she was a journalist, into art, and all around cool girl.

I think if you simply stay out of the night clubs, the whole gold digger, scammer thing is hardly a thing at all.

Its good to see that i am not paranoid. Anyway, my reaction was not to the goldigger culture of women, but to real security issues in my country and others i have been.

[Dulceácido]

(06-06-2014 02:52 PM)Mekorig Wrote:  

This kind of situation would make all my scam/robbing/kidnaping internal alarms go crazy.

No shit, right? If this situation happened in almost any place in South or Central America (or North America, for that matter) and it didn't send you off the deep end of anxiety attack, skin crawling, Spider Senses tingling--then you're either infected with a total lack of situational awareness or completely inebriated (resulting in a total lack of situational awareness).

If you don't get extremely paranoid and fear for your own safety in a situation like this, you won't be a "world traveler" for very long.

Then again, there's the "nothing ventured, nothing gained" paradox.

"Dude, horror movies start this way!"
"Dude, PORNO movies start this way!"

[TripleG]

I have read and re-read Courage Reborns other posts and have to conclude that based on his writings (i've never met the guy) he is an extremely experienced player and I doubt his extremely high success rate can be replicated by everyone else here who thinks they can just land in Moscow, go to Gorky park, say a sentence in Russian and convert to an instadate. Even Slubu's historic trip from last year was not a "walk in the park" and Slubu went out like a mad men and even complained of this type of lifestyle taking a toll on his health and would keep us intrigued and glued to this forum about both his successes but also failures.

I am 99% sure that most other guys on these forums would not be succeeding anywhere near as much as Courage in Moscow. Shoot, an HB 20 year old insta-dating Courage while he is casually sitting on the bench? That to me is hard to believe. I was talking to a senior member of the forums last night and he confirmed what I was thinking and that is that Moscow is hyped up too much on these forums (he was there last year and had success but nowhere near what the others are claiming).

For example, I visited another similar city last year (Kiev) twice with a buddy of mine and we went out like crazy, doing both day game and night game. We were given "private" tours of the city by girls we met while day-gaming, we got invited to meet their family's and I infiltrated their social circles and made plenty of friends who want me to go back to UA BUT it was a lot of work!. I am talking about not sleeping for 40+ hours due to constant going out and partying, spending easily $150+ per day on lifestyle, and having to deal with many phone flakes, mental games, and shit tests. It was exhausting and the fact that I could only spend 2 weeks in a place took an emotional toll on not just me but the girls I met. That's even with my logistics being perfect and having a place next to Arena center with huge balcony overlooking Khreshchatyk.

Perhaps Courage Reborn looks like a million dollars but I honestly question the ease of some of his day reports. What I would love to see is for Roosh to visit either Moscow or St. Pete in the near future and to confirm these observations.

[sportbilly]

dunno about Gorky Park for daygame......best place I have seem for daygame is on the University grounds at "MGU" in the South West of the city........plonk yourself in the Ctolavaya (Canteen) and take your pick. Saying that, my experience is that day game in Moscow is not quite as easy as the OP eludes to......or perhaps his game is just a lot stronger than mine.

[Greek kamaki]

(06-08-2014 10:57 AM)TripleG Wrote:  

I have read and re-read Courage Reborns other posts and have to conclude that based on his writings (i've never met the guy) he is an extremely experienced player and I doubt his extremely high success rate can be replicated by everyone else here who thinks they can just land in Moscow, go to Gorky park, say a sentence in Russian and convert to an instadate. Even Slubu's historic trip from last year was not a "walk in the park" and Slubu went out like a mad men and even complained of this type of lifestyle taking a toll on his health and would keep us intrigued and glued to this forum about both his successes but also failures.

I am 99% sure that most other guys on these forums would not be succeeding anywhere near as much as Courage in Moscow. Shoot, an HB 20 year old insta-dating Courage while he is casually sitting on the bench? That to me is hard to believe. I was talking to a senior member of the forums last night and he confirmed what I was thinking and that is that Moscow is hyped up too much on these forums (he was there last year and had success but nowhere near what the others are claiming).

For example, I visited another similar city last year (Kiev) twice with a buddy of mine and we went out like crazy, doing both day game and night game. We were given "private" tours of the city by girls we met while day-gaming, we got invited to meet their family's and I infiltrated their social circles and made plenty of friends who want me to go back to UA BUT it was a lot of work!. I am talking about not sleeping for 40+ hours due to constant going out and partying, spending easily $150+ per day on lifestyle, and having to deal with many phone flakes, mental games, and shit tests. It was exhausting and the fact that I could only spend 2 weeks in a place took an emotional toll on not just me but the girls I met. That's even with my logistics being perfect and having a place next to Arena center with huge balcony overlooking Khreshchatyk.

Perhaps Courage Reborn looks like a million dollars but I honestly question the ease of some of his day reports. What I would love to see is for Roosh to visit either Moscow or St. Pete in the near future and to confirm these observations.

2 weeks in Kiev is insane.You can get at least one bang every two days there.Spending would easily come at 3000 euro.
I am guessing Courage spends more than 3000 euro every week.Most guys simply cannot afford it.

[Roosh]

Quote:

weeks in Kiev is insane.You can get at least one bang every two days there.

Yes but is this semi-P4P bangs with gifts?

Keep in mind that most guys here don't do that.

[Enigma]

(06-08-2014 10:57 AM)TripleG Wrote:  

Perhaps Courage Reborn looks like a million dollars but I honestly question the ease of some of his day reports.

I don't think there's anyone who has posted more straightforward and detailed trip reports than CR in the time that's he's been here.

I haven't followed this entire thread, but last I checked in he was stuck in a hostel and getting used for drinks. And it wasn't long before this trip that he posted about his brutal time in Miami.

For you to question his honesty is way off base, especially when it's nothing more than a hunch on a place you've never even been and based on the vague comments of some mystery member.

[Greek kamaki]

(06-08-2014 11:55 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

weeks in Kiev is insane.You can get at least one bang every two days there.

Yes but is this semi-P4P bangs with gifts?

Keep in mind that most guys here don't do that.

Not exactly.It is a multi level one.Many Kiev girls are prone to SNLs without material rewards.There are many variations of girls expectations for example if you pay 100 euro on sushi restaurant and cocktails or 100 euro on her drinks in clubs what is the difference?Some say there is difference.Anyway the whole issue of support and pomoc is a rather complicated one in all slavic countries.
Actually an advantage of Moscow is that it has become so expensive that sex tourists can no longer afford it.By national policy it gets less and less tourists each year and the visa becomes more expensive.So a foreigner has become a kind of novelty and a businessman story is very well perceived while in Kiev girls automatically put you in sex tourist category no matter what you tell them.Girls in Moscow believe that you come for business since most foreigners are actually businessmen who can afford the trip.