[L M McCoy]

(04-13-2014 03:10 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 03:03 PM)007 Wrote:  

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

(04-13-2014 02:47 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:20 PM)007 Wrote:  

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

007 Wrote:

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

mikado Wrote:

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

Gotta agree with you there. I despise the culture especially being born into it. Culturally they are racist, bigoted, parasitic, and backwards. I love the religion(about 70%), philosophy/philosophers, calligraphy, hospitality towards guests, and parts of the familial setup, but in the end the mainstream Arab world is terrible in this era(Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia/majority of the Arabian peninsula(besides the UAE because I love Dubai), and parts of Northern Africa are the main example. Some countries like Morocco and Turkey are worthwhile places though and aforementioned UAE. I hate the Turkish government and most of the male populace though(being half Turkish gives you experience into how much more beta they are than even American men).

Are Arabs really that bad? I have yet to meet another Arab so I wouldn't know haha. I'm so culturally removed its ridiculous.

[tylerdurden1993]

One thing I don't understand about Islam is the whole 4 wives thing.

First of all its statistically impossible for this to happen as for every 1 female born there are usually 1.05 men born.

So how do you actually get more than one wife, say you have a wife. But you want another one do you go through your family or do you have to meet them and their family in person i.e. at a mosque. Do you have to be able to prove you can financially support another wife etc. So to stop guys taking on more than they can handle so to speak.

Or is it a case where only the some men get 4 wives but if this is the case what happens to the guys at the bottom of the food chain do they not get a wife, as if this is the case you're going to have a lot of angry young men wandering around which isn't good for society. An example being the "lost boys" in polygamous Mormon communities

With the obvious demographics above what happens if you or your family can't find a wife for you as said above do you just have to wait for one , do you have to work harder to prove to the community you deserve a wife. Its not like there's a free for all like in western countries.

Finally is this whole 4 wives thing bullshit whereas the only guys that get 4 wives are the super alphas so it doesn't affect the numbers so much. i.e. basically every normal guy gets a wife.

[Bill]

(04-13-2014 03:10 PM)mikado Wrote:  

Yeah, and?

Though the Kuran is directed towards people from the 7th century to the end of humanity, some verses were revealed in a specific context.
You cannot distinguish the context from the actual words in the Kuran. Some verses were even abrogated when they were no longer relevant to the context of that era.

Yeah some verses can mean something or exactly the opposite. Not very divine imho. To believe in an entity which doesn´t reveal himself but wants people to believe that it exists is beyond reason in itself. Case closed.

I rather believe in the Spaghetti Monster.

I think islam is red pill in the matter of women. It´s no wonder as it´s the biggest problem for men. I am living in Turkey, I think most men here and in the muslim world do only use religion to have women in check.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(04-13-2014 03:18 PM)L M McCoy Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 03:10 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 03:03 PM)007 Wrote:  

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

(04-13-2014 02:47 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:20 PM)007 Wrote:  

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

007 Wrote:

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

mikado Wrote:

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

Gotta agree with you there. I despise the culture especially being born into it. Culturally they are racist, bigoted, parasitic, and backwards. I love the religion(about 70%), philosophy/philosophers, calligraphy, hospitality towards guests, and parts of the familial setup, but in the end the mainstream Arab world is terrible in this era(Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia/majority of the Arabian peninsula(besides the UAE because I love Dubai), and parts of Northern Africa are the main example. Some countries like Morocco and Turkey are worthwhile places though and aforementioned UAE. I hate the Turkish government and most of the male populace though(being half Turkish gives you experience into how much more beta they are than even American men).

Are Arabs really that bad? I have yet to meet another Arab so I wouldn't know haha. I'm so culturally removed its ridiculous.

Speaking from experience from my second generation Arab and Pakistani friends, most of them joke about it all the time. Arabs are closet racists like Japanese nationalists. They won't say it to your face but around family and Arab friends they tend to be like that. I've seen it multiple times as I pass off as Arab (even though I look Slavic with my brown hair/eyes with angled features) at their homes, and they have brought those kind of things up subconsciously. My parents have even taken a bit from them. They aren't racist in the outright hate, violence, or prejudice but are very bigoted and superior minded. They're biased towards others but will treat them equally. I call it dinner racism. Around dinner with family/family friends they'll be bigoted, but professionally never and will be extremely polite. The only time it's open it is if you're in Mecca and don't speak Arabic. They'll go off on you then. Going into an Arab country not speaking Arabic will get you lots of open verbal hate. They'll serve you fine though as they are natural merchants and want your money/a big fat tip.
Edit: didn't mean Arab for Pakistan and India but they have adopted a less severe mindset than Arabs in terms of bigotry(though they can be bigoted).

[Comte De St. Germain]

@ hwuzhere - Very good quote bro, I agree with the negatives, but also the positives (arts, calligraphy, hospitality). I think that what you have said is a very realistic and balanced view of the muslim world.

@ mikado - my dealings / experiences with Pakistanis, Bangaldeshi and Afghan, Balkan and Somali muslims have been 95% negative.

Although, I must say that my experiences with Iranians have been overwhelmingly positive. They seem like a more culturally refined breed of muslims to me, the Persians have always been more sophisticated. On a sidenote, a Persian family have just moved in on my floor. Plenty of IOI's from the fine mum and daughter, project ayatolah is underway.

@ Jdresden - do I have your blessings to randsack that Persian pussy? If that is halal then cool, otherwise please feel free to 'acid attack me for the haram gesture.

(04-13-2014 03:10 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 03:03 PM)007 Wrote:  

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

(04-13-2014 02:47 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:20 PM)007 Wrote:  

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

007 Wrote:

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

mikado Wrote:

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

Gotta agree with you there. I despise the culture especially being born into it. Culturally they are racist, bigoted, parasitic, and backwards. I love the religion(about 70%), philosophy/philosophers, calligraphy, hospitality towards guests, and parts of the familial setup, but in the end the mainstream Arab world is terrible in this era(Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia/majority of the Arabian peninsula(besides the UAE because I love Dubai), and parts of Northern Africa are the main example. Some countries like Morocco and Turkey are worthwhile places though and aforementioned UAE. I hate the Turkish government and most of the male populace though(being half Turkish gives you experience into how much more beta they are than even American men).

[Bill]

(04-13-2014 03:21 PM)tylerdurden1993 Wrote:  

One thing I don't understand about Islam is the whole 4 wives thing.

First of all its statistically impossible for this to happen as for every 1 female born there are usually 1.05 men born.

So how do you actually get more than one wife, say you have a wife. But you want another one do you go through your family or do you have to meet them and their family in person i.e. at a mosque. Do you have to be able to prove you can financially support another wife etc. So to stop guys taking on more than they can handle so to speak.

Or is it a case where only the some men get 4 wives but if this is the case what happens to the guys at the bottom of the food chain do they not get a wife, as if this is the case you're going to have a lot of angry young men wandering around which isn't good for society. An example being the "lost boys" in polygamous Mormon communities

With the obvious demographics above what happens if you or your family can't find a wife for you as said above do you just have to wait for one , do you have to work harder to prove to the community you deserve a wife. Its not like there's a free for all like in western countries.

Finally is this whole 4 wives thing bullshit whereas the only guys that get 4 wives are the super alphas so it doesn't affect the numbers so much. i.e. basically every normal guy gets a wife.

In history there were always wars and then to many women were left so there had to be a proper solution. Alpha men would always get more women with or without islam as they are mighty enough.

In history everywhere beta men had difficulties to find a women. This is still the case in the modern world. Look at Japan with the herbivore men who have difficulties to get a girl and capitulate.

But in general you are right it´s simply outdated. In the modern world we use mistress and prostitutes and sluts. This is more efficient without the religious vodoo.

[bojangles]

Islam was great at a certain time - the islamic golden age and provided the world with many inventions and stable countries, now it's hundreds of different sects who believe what they want to believe when it comes to being a muslim. Not so good these days.

[JDresden]

(04-13-2014 02:56 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  

Any discussion of this sort is polarizing. Unless you look at things objectively and ignore the varying interpretations(note look at TurkishCandy's post about sexual repression, Vicious' first post about the Ottomans, or Quintus' post about the appeal it has) then that personally I think is not polarizing. The majority of this thread is polarized because each side is speaking one interpretation of beliefs, and not ignoring them for a second and looking at the after effect. Frankly, I believe that arguing the belief system like amateur religious scholars is fruitless and creating polarization. Instead if is much better to bring up the effects today with as little reference to the religion's beliefs as possible. We should be talking cultural and social effects not beliefs like theologians.

Right. The reason I'm asking is because of the rep you gave mikado.

mikado's rep Wrote:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-35063-...#pid701602 took the words out of my mouth. Polarized the discussion, but he is looking at it objectively. +1 for depth of knowledge.

According to the rep it only became polarizing when I responded to soup. When I made a possitive affirmation to counter his negative affirmation. So when you talk about looking at things objectively I wonder what you actually mean because it seemed you didn't. I bring this up because I loathe hypocrisy. Do you understand how I drew conclusion that I did?

Now, if all you did was misspeak that's not a problem. You'll admit your mistake and we'll move on. Or were you just "busting balls" like 007?

[JDresden]

(04-13-2014 03:03 PM)007 Wrote:  

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

So, just to be clear, it's at THIS point that I'm supposed to take you seriously? Very well. I don't care about the thoughts that swirl around in your skull. I care about truth and facts. When you ejaculate lies about my religion I am going to respond to it. I don't care if you hate Islam, but atleast have the decency to speak truthfully about it.

Enjoy your day.

[Comte De St. Germain]

I was saying that if he was speaking about the belief system he was well informed on the topic. I repped him for bring knowledgable on the subject. I just thought he polarized it by referring to the belief system instead of after effects. I didn't persay agree with his argument but just for the level of knowledge he showed on the subject. So yes I did misspeak if you put it that way.

[JDresden]

(04-13-2014 03:21 PM)tylerdurden1993 Wrote:  

One thing I don't understand about Islam is the whole 4 wives thing.
First of all its statistically impossible for this to happen as for every 1 female born there are usually 1.05 men born.

This is an excellent question.
I'm not sure how accurate that stat is but for the sake of the question let's assume that it is factual.

Quote:

So how do you actually get more than one wife, say you have a wife. But you want another one do you go through your family or do you have to meet them and their family in person i.e. at a mosque. Do you have to be able to prove you can financially support another wife etc. So to stop guys taking on more than they can handle so to speak.

Networking through family, friends, and the mosque are excellent options. It is the right of the wife to be supported. Meaning the husband is responsible for clothing, food, and housing. If the husband wants to produce documents outlining his financial fitness he is certainly welcome to do so but it isn't neccessary. The wife is going to find out sooner or later if he can't support her and she can divorce him because of it if she so chooses.

Quote:

Or is it a case where only the some men get 4 wives but if this is the case what happens to the guys at the bottom of the food chain do they not get a wife, as if this is the case you're going to have a lot of angry young men wandering around which isn't good for society. An example being the "lost boys" in polygamous Mormon communities

Any male can have more than one wife as long as he can fulfill the rights of each wife. What happened to the "lost boys" is truly a disgusting situation. We have to understand that just because polygyny is perfectly permissible, and even encouraged, not everyone will have the emotional or financial capacity to deal with multiple families. So as we see now it is only a minority of men who take on these responsibilities in locations where it is permissible.

Generally, when countries experienced an abundance of young men it was considered the perfect opportunity to expand borders and secure more resources (that includes women).

Quote:

With the obvious demographics above what happens if you or your family can't find a wife for you as said above do you just have to wait for one , do you have to work harder to prove to the community you deserve a wife. Its not like there's a free for all like in western countries.

If he can't find a wife around him he should travel to areas that have them available.

Quote:

Finally is this whole 4 wives thing bullshit whereas the only guys that get 4 wives are the super alphas so it doesn't affect the numbers so much. i.e. basically every normal guy gets a wife.

Seems to be, If we define the super alpha as those who go through with multiple marriages.

[El Chinito loco]

I've been in many many islamic countries (across asia and the gulf) and the religion breeds blue pill actions and thinking in my opinion. In the UAE you see lots of baller type muslim gulf arabs but a lot of them are raised in a strong gender segregationist environment which ends up creating men with overall low social skills and a culture which ironically ends up pedastalizing women through sexual repression.

A lot of gulf arab guys and other rich muslims pretend to be players but are in reality throwing money at women to get what they want. This is basically resorting to monetary compensation ie. prostitution which is not game or red pill thinking.

[LeBeau]

I've seen these debates pop up now and then for multiple religions, and a big aspect that people gloss over, is what allows us to discuss Red Pill beliefs in the first place:

- Freedom of speech
- A focus on reason, logic and avoidance of fallacies
- Belief in the scientific method of testing and falsifiability

You can't possibly consider something Red Pill if it doesn't meet those beginning characteristics, and everywhere that Islam is predominant, you find those features censored, punished, or considered heretical.

Make rationalizations around multiple wives, traditional gender roles, etc. it doesn't matter, those all fall apart when you look at the repressive foundations of Islam and how it is practiced today.

[turkishcandy]

(04-13-2014 07:17 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  

I've seen these debates pop up now and then for multiple religions, and a big aspect that people gloss over, is what allows us to discuss Red Pill beliefs in the first place:

- Freedom of speech
- A focus on reason, logic and avoidance of fallacies
- Belief in the scientific method of testing and falsifiability

You can't possibly consider something Red Pill if it doesn't meet those beginning characteristics

who came up with this definition? let's define red pill first then it will be obvious whether islam fits it or not

[Bushido]

Religion functions as a means of controlling the masses. I fail to see how Islam can be red pill.

Maybe it's just me but I wonder what brings Muslims to a Game forum anyway?

Is there such thing as Muslim game?

Do guys do street game in Saudi Arabia?

Just wondering.

[Comte De St. Germain]

Well I'd say that Western society has forced them. Reasonably saying I personally have accepted the freedom I have been given and am making the most of it. If given opportunity the smart have to act. I personally I found myself disillusioned with the modern culture of those societies and am instead trying to blaze my own path through the world. There is a strong possibility that is why Muslims would join this forum. There will be varying levels of hedonism(mine personally being high), and some may just be here to figure out women. To each their own.

[Hotwheels]

I see a lot of guys seem to think "red pill"="game".

They are two separate things.

Just because a guy is red pill doesn't mean he has game.

Game really has no place being brought up in a religious discussion as most religions are based on a man providing for a woman in marriage.

[big poppa]

(04-13-2014 10:43 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

I see a lot of guys seem to think "red pill"="game".

They are two separate things.

Just because a guy is red pill doesn't mean he has game.

Game really has no place being brought up in a religious discussion as most religions are based on a man providing for a woman in marriage.

Good point. I guess you can say that religions advocate solid LTR game but they would all shun the player lifestyle.

[Earth]

(04-13-2014 06:29 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  

They belive in afterlife.

So, hell no.

ditto

[Hotwheels]

(04-13-2014 11:21 PM)big poppa Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 10:43 PM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

I see a lot of guys seem to think "red pill"="game".

They are two separate things.

Just because a guy is red pill doesn't mean he has game.

Game really has no place being brought up in a religious discussion as most religions are based on a man providing for a woman in marriage.

Good point. I guess you can say that religions advocate solid LTR game but they would all shun the player lifestyle.

Exactly. Religion, as I understand it, is primarily a way to promote the prosperity and cohesiveness of the tribe or group by mandating social norms that eliminate things such as promiscuity and adultery that undermine the family unit.


I'm no religious scholar by any means, but that's always been my take.

[soup]

Religion asks people to a take a ridiculous leap of faith. For most people it's about how much you trust the person giving you the info.

[Hotwheels]

(04-13-2014 11:51 PM)soup Wrote:  

Religion asks people to a take a ridiculous leap of faith. For most people it's about how much you trust the person giving you the info.

Forget the God, Jesus, Allah, Budda, etc part and look at the lifestyle they promote.

Hundreds/thousands of years ago people were simpler and didn't question things like they do now, so it was easier to control the masses with the Wrath of God hanging over them.

[soup]

(04-14-2014 12:11 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 11:51 PM)soup Wrote:  

Religion asks people to a take a ridiculous leap of faith. For most people it's about how much you trust the person giving you the info.

Forget the God, Jesus, Allah, Budda, etc part and look at the lifestyle they promote.

Hundreds/thousands of years ago people were simpler and didn't question things like they do now, so it was easier to control the masses with the Wrath of God hanging over them.

Redpill needs to stop whining about bringing back the past.

Do you know what that makes us?

Romanticists. Goths.

Unless you are in a real position of power to change things to be the way you want, you are just complaining to the air.

Learn to separate the good from the bullshit.

Yes, maybe things were more natural in the past. Humans do not need to be deluded to be happy though. They do not need child-level comfort items like the old/new testament god.

We don't need to have our responsibility displaced on to some outside force- be it god, "The Jews", the "X" or whatever you want to call it.

There are memes that do take root in our subconscious, but if you work at being present, you can see them as not part of you.

[Sp5]

I was in a LTR with one Muslim woman and dated others. It was always fun to tease them with the four wives thing, but women always interpreted Islam in a feminist way, for example saying that a man needed the wife's permission to take additional wives. Which I don't think is in the text of the Quran or the hadiths.

You also have to distinguish Islam from Arab or other tribal practices. A lot of Arab society is extremely patriarchal, but at the same time can go too far in mate- or daughter-guarding to the extreme of honor-killing (also among the non-Arab Kurds and Persians but not so much among Muslim Malays).

Agree with those who note that Arab guys generally do not have good game, because the opportunity to exercise it is not there. If you make an approach in a lot of Muslim countries, other people on the street or mall will stop and watch you talk to the woman with the stink eye. I've read a lot about using Bluetooth, but never tried it, but have used Tango and WeChat in Gulf countries (but only successfully with Filipina guest workers).

[svenski7]

Islam is extremely blue pill. I've never seen bigger dredges than the Saudi men I've met in my life. The first time I got pegged as "a player" was when I tried to impart basic Game knowledge to some Saudis complaining about not being able to meet girls. The friendship immediately ended and I learned my lesson.

Also, in regards to Saudi Arabia buttfucking homos out of ignorance of the Koran -- please. That's like telling me the Vatican doesn't have any copies of Bible. Where are the holy cities of Mecca and Medina? Do they not have any Imams handy to correct this homo for homo practice?

You think it's red pill to have a harem? Come to Thailand and get a few geeks (sp). Convert to LDS church.