[Muk]

(04-13-2014 12:57 PM)soup Wrote:  

It's mad beta to kill yourself for 70 virgins because you don't have any game to get many girls in real life.

It's also directly against Islam. Suicide sends them straight to hell, no matter how many "infidels" they take with them. There aren't 70 virgins waiting for them.

[mikado]

(04-13-2014 01:09 PM)007 Wrote:  

It's even more beta for the 'Islamic Morality Police' in Saudi Arabia to butt rape men for the crime of being a fag. Tell me, how does a straight man get aroused enough to butt rape another man? Simple... he's a fag himself.

(04-13-2014 12:57 PM)soup Wrote:  

Redpill is about recognizing truth, so how can any religion be redpill? Islam promotes fiction as reality.

It's mad beta to kill yourself for 70 virgins because you don't have any game to get many girls in real life.

Now give me the exact quote in the Kuran or the life of Muhammad where it is said to rape men for being homosexual.
The key words are : "Saudi Arabia"
I think many of you should make the difference between what's written in the Kuran and the interpretation done in Saudi Arabia and the Arabian countries near it, vs Islamic rules in Africa, the West, Asia...

From what I see on this forum, too many people here are lazy enough to search for quotes and/or clear information about the different applications of islam in the different countries.

I would not dare take the way some catholics believe, then extend it to the whole Christianity .Nor generalize the orthodox' rules.
Give me a clear breakdown of how every point of contention you list is applied towards general streams of Islam ( chiites, sunnites, islam in the west, in West Africa, in Saudi Arabia etc) , then we can talk more about it.

Kinda like what people did with the Jewish thread, when they distinguished the Jewish motives and behaviour in Israel, Europe, USA...

[JDresden]

(04-13-2014 01:09 PM)007 Wrote:  

It's even more beta for the 'Islamic Morality Police' in Saudi Arabia to butt rape men for the crime of being a fag. Tell me, how does a straight man get aroused enough to butt rape another man? Simple... he's a fag himself.

I made a direct post to you challenging your assertions and all you've done is try to reframe the thread with your picture and then throw out more assertions. This forum is for masculine men (or for those on their way) and all you've demonstrated is feminine behavior. I shouldn't be surprised I suppose. After all, you're not the first person I've challenged and had run away on this forum.

I'd also like to see some evidence for your assertion in this post as well.

[JDresden]

(04-13-2014 12:57 PM)soup Wrote:  

Redpill is about recognizing truth, so how can any religion be redpill? Islam promotes fiction as reality.

Absolutely. Islam is Divine Revelation.

Quote:

It's mad beta to kill yourself for 70 virgins because you don't have any game to get many girls in real life.

Muslims don't kill themselves for women. Why would we? We can have multiple wives already. The virgins, like numerous other things, are a reward for those who enter Paradise.

[Quintus Curtius]

My thoughts.

First off, I'm not a Muslim. I have no interest in promoting any one religion over another.

But from what I know and have studied about Islam and Middle Eastern societies, I can say that Islam is probably the most traditionally "masculine" of all the major world religions. Maybe even excessively so. All in all, making all allowances, it cultivates a stern, masculine ethos.

That does not mean it's for everyone. It is very rule-driven, much like orthodox Judaism. In fact, those who know Judaism will be surprised at how similar Islam is to Judaism. The moral code, dietary laws, monotheism, and overall puritanical aspects of it all reflect Judaic influence.

I suppose for us RVF guys, it's attraction seems to be the fact that it is unapologetic about putting women in their place. Muslim men totally reject all this feminist bullshit.

I can understand its attraction to many people in today's societies in Europe and the US. Islam offers strict discipline, rules, structure, a moral code, an uncompromising advocacy of monotheism, and a zealously expansionist ethic.

Does the future belong to them? Good question...maybe, maybe not.

-

[Bill]

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/...olence.htm

"Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths."

[mikado]

(04-13-2014 01:38 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

My thoughts.

First off, I'm not a Muslim. I have no interest in promoting any one religion over another.

But from what I know and have studied about Islam and Middle Eastern societies, I can say that Islam is probably the most traditionally "masculine" of all the major world religions. Maybe even excessively so. All in all, making all allowances, it cultivates a stern, masculine ethos.

That does not mean it's for everyone. It is very rule-driven, much like orthodox Judaism. In fact, those who know Judaism will be surprised at how similar Islam is to Judaism. The moral code, dietary laws, monotheism, and overall puritanical aspects of it all reflect Judaic influence.

I suppose for us RVF guys, it's attraction seems to be the fact that it is unapologetic about putting women in their place. Muslim men totally reject all this feminist bullshit.

I can understand its attraction to many people in today's societies in Europe and the US. Islam offers strict discipline, rules, structure, a moral code, an uncompromising advocacy of monotheism, and a zealously expansionist ethic.

Does the future belong to them? Good question...maybe, maybe not.

-

This is because Islam and Judaism ( at least for Muslims) come from the same root: Abraham.
Btw you are right, Islam does not advocate feminism. However, to those who say it doesn't care about women except for their pussy

- The Prophet said that the best Muslim was the best towards his wife.
-Women are exempted from fasting when they are on their period.
-Calomniating women is harshly punished, way more than calomny towards men.
-Men have to provide the future spouse with some items/money before the marriage.
- Quote from The Prophet : "Paradise is under your mother's feet"
-The mother is the person whom we should respect the most, three more times than the father. Father comes next.
-At the time, no religion or "mainstream stream" entitled women to a significant part of their husband's heritage. Islam fixed that.
-At the time before the Prophet, People from Mecca would bury their girls alive, when they were born.
- You have to support your family no matter what.

I stand again by my requisite on the first page, if you have some concern over Islam.

[mikado]

(04-13-2014 01:56 PM)Bill Wrote:  

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/...olence.htm

"Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths."

This was in response to several attacks from Meccans, who broke the treaties they signed with Muslims.

Read this

I will use the same strategy as you , and provide my link too.

[007]

"Absolutely. Islam is Divine Revelation" - Yeh right, I'll leave it at that bro.

(04-13-2014 01:36 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 12:57 PM)soup Wrote:  

Redpill is about recognizing truth, so how can any religion be redpill? Islam promotes fiction as reality.

Absolutely. Islam is Divine Revelation.

Quote:

It's mad beta to kill yourself for 70 virgins because you don't have any game to get many girls in real life.

Muslims don't kill themselves for women. Why would we? We can have multiple wives already. The virgins, like numerous other things, are a reward for those who enter Paradise.

[mikado]

(04-13-2014 02:10 PM)007 Wrote:  

"Absolutely. Islam is Divine Revelation" - I'll leave it at that bro, stay halal.

(04-13-2014 01:36 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 12:57 PM)soup Wrote:  

Redpill is about recognizing truth, so how can any religion be redpill? Islam promotes fiction as reality.

Absolutely. Islam is Divine Revelation.

Quote:

It's mad beta to kill yourself for 70 virgins because you don't have any game to get many girls in real life.

Muslims don't kill themselves for women. Why would we? We can have multiple wives already. The virgins, like numerous other things, are a reward for those who enter Paradise.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

[Comte De St. Germain]

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool). You have to admit though, that sometimes it is very hard to separate muslim religious vs muslim cultural traits / quirks. Many a time it seems like the cultural quirks stem directly from religious sources. Especially when I hear what some of your imams and mullahs say.

Although I am a big fan of this particular Mullah, I actually agree with his method of wife beating.

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

(04-13-2014 02:11 PM)mikado Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:10 PM)007 Wrote:  

"Absolutely. Islam is Divine Revelation" - I'll leave it at that bro, stay halal.

(04-13-2014 01:36 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 12:57 PM)soup Wrote:  

Redpill is about recognizing truth, so how can any religion be redpill? Islam promotes fiction as reality.

Absolutely. Islam is Divine Revelation.

Quote:

It's mad beta to kill yourself for 70 virgins because you don't have any game to get many girls in real life.

Muslims don't kill themselves for women. Why would we? We can have multiple wives already. The virgins, like numerous other things, are a reward for those who enter Paradise.

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

[Comte De St. Germain]

Meh I'll add in a neutral POV that someone already mentioned. I think it's best to take the best from everything and not follow the rest. It's the reason I don't really follow a religion. I took the best from every religious or spiritual faith from Judaism, Christianity, and Islam to Buddhism and Taoism(I would include Shintoism with the more Asian belief systems but it has more religious bearings than the rest) as well as even moral systems such as Confucianist thinking and Legalistic thinking, and added to my beliefs while leaving the worst behind. No belief is inherently bad, you just choose to follow all of it or interpret it in a certain manner. All this considered, I sincerely hope this doesn't devolve into 9/11 conspiracy stuff and American patriotic bull crap that tends to happen on any political forum.

[mikado]

Don't worry, Islam asks Muslims to never stop learning, and not just blindly believe facts, but use reason.

There is also something to consider: the cultural Arabian stuff mixing with the original precepts of Kuran.
You'd be surprised by all the things Islam never prescribed , but are believed by some Muslims ( and Non Muslims).
Also, Muslims are definitely not a unity yet , especially when you look at the racial tensions ( mostly one-sided, directed to Black people who are considered inferior, even if Muslims).

[Comte De St. Germain]

(04-13-2014 02:33 PM)mikado Wrote:  

Don't worry, Islam asks Muslims to never stop learning, and not just blindly believe facts, but use reason.

There is also something to consider: the cultural Arabian stuff mixing with the original precepts of Kuran.
You'd be surprised by all the things Islam never prescribed , but are believed by some Muslims ( and Non Muslims).
Also, Muslims are definitely not a unity yet , especially when you look at the racial tensions ( mostly one-sided, directed to Black people who are considered inferior, even if Muslims).

Black Muslims in Arab countries are discriminated against and a major reason for my distaste in Arabs. The terrorist crap never got to me, but the hypocritical and elitist Arabs never ceased to irk me.

Side note: Pakistani and Indian Muslims discriminate as well but are more accepting of converts. The Arabs on the other hand are complete dicks.

[Comte De St. Germain]

Adding in Arabs have stigma towards whites marrying Arab girls, but the other way around is usually fine.

[JDresden]

(04-13-2014 02:20 PM)007 Wrote:  

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

007 Wrote:

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

mikado Wrote:

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

[Bill]

(04-13-2014 02:04 PM)mikado Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 01:56 PM)Bill Wrote:  

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/...olence.htm

"Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths."

This was in response to several attacks from Meccans, who broke the treaties they signed with Muslims.

Read this

I will use the same strategy as you , and provide my link too.

That´s not what´s in the text. Your thinking what context it may have is irrelevant as nobody can know what the intention of a not existing entity might have been.

[mikado]

(04-13-2014 02:47 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:20 PM)007 Wrote:  

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

007 Wrote:

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

mikado Wrote:

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

My point of view is that, as the majority of this forum is non-Muslim, and American, there are going to be a lot of " Islam is bad", "Islam encourages suiciding himself to get 72 virgins" etc
Instead of just going into " this is false, Islam is a revelation" which will convince no one since there is no argument, I think the best thing to do is use constructive arguments and call people out on their false affirmations.
I know We will probably convert no one, but even if one person here has some of his (false) beliefs about Islam debunked, and understands better the religion, then my mission is done.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(04-13-2014 02:47 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:20 PM)007 Wrote:  

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

007 Wrote:

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

mikado Wrote:

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

Any discussion of this sort is polarizing. Unless you look at things objectively and ignore the varying interpretations(note look at TurkishCandy's post about sexual repression, Vicious' first post about the Ottomans, or Quintus' post about the appeal it has) then that personally I think is not polarizing. The majority of this thread is polarized because each side is speaking one interpretation of beliefs, and not ignoring them for a second and looking at the after effect. Frankly, I believe that arguing the belief system like amateur religious scholars is fruitless and creating polarization. Instead if is much better to bring up the effects today with as little reference to the religion's beliefs as possible. We should be talking cultural and social effects not beliefs like theologians.

[mikado]

(04-13-2014 02:54 PM)Bill Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:04 PM)mikado Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 01:56 PM)Bill Wrote:  

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/...olence.htm

"Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths."

This was in response to several attacks from Meccans, who broke the treaties they signed with Muslims.

Read this

I will use the same strategy as you , and provide my link too.

That´s not what´s in the text. Your thinking what context it may have is irrelevant as nobody can know what the intention of a not existing entity might have been.

This IS what is in the text. The exact same verses you provided.
Your second sentence is biased, you are exactly using the same thing as I do: interpretate the verses according to your point of view. If nobody knows, then how can you make such bold claims that Islam advocates violence just on the sole basis of religion?
Basically, a case of "Do what I say, not what I do"

[Comte De St. Germain]

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

(04-13-2014 02:47 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:20 PM)007 Wrote:  

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

007 Wrote:

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

mikado Wrote:

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

[mikado]

(04-13-2014 03:03 PM)007 Wrote:  

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

(04-13-2014 02:47 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:20 PM)007 Wrote:  

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

007 Wrote:

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

mikado Wrote:

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

First of all, sorry to "hijack" the thread. It's just that muslims are a minority here, and as such, I think it is due from me to answer, to get different sides of the story.

Now 007 I will ask you: what kind of Muslims have you met? What did you witness with your own eyes from people calling themselves muslim? Not on TV, but IRL.
I think it would help us a lot in debunking some beliefs here, and distinguish the typical "muslim stuff" from the "cultural stuff".

[Bill]

(04-13-2014 03:00 PM)mikado Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:54 PM)Bill Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:04 PM)mikado Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 01:56 PM)Bill Wrote:  

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/...olence.htm

"Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths."

This was in response to several attacks from Meccans, who broke the treaties they signed with Muslims.

Read this

I will use the same strategy as you , and provide my link too.

That´s not what´s in the text. Your thinking what context it may have is irrelevant as nobody can know what the intention of a not existing entity might have been.

This IS what is in the text. The exact same verses you provided.
Your second sentence is biased, you are exactly using the same thing as I do: interpretate the verses according to your point of view. If nobody knows, then how can you make such bold claims that Islam advocates violence just on the sole basis of religion?
Basically, a case of "Do what I say, not what I do"

In the text there is no talk about the Meccans.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(04-13-2014 03:03 PM)007 Wrote:  

Yes, I was 100% serious about busting balls. Listen, if I am honest, I would say that I dislike 80% of what I see in the muslim / islamic world. As a cultural entity / group, I find muslims to be trouble makers, backward and quite parasitic toward the countries that they emigrate to.

(04-13-2014 02:47 PM)JDresden Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 02:20 PM)007 Wrote:  

Mikado, I appreciate your love for your religion bro, I really do. I was just busting some balls (especially that other fool).

Let's be real, no you weren't. You were completely serious and then you got called out on it. I embarrassed you by calling your feminine behavior out for what it was and now your backtracking.

007 Wrote:

@ JDresden - There was a big outbreak of swineflu in Mecca, is that considered haram? (serious question)

No.

mikado Wrote:

Lol yeah. Though I believe he is right, this is not really an argument in this discussion.

I don't see how. soup asserted that Islam is false and I asserted that it is true.

Maybe hwuzhere can help me out. Why is it that when soup asserted one thing and I asserted another my assertion was "polarizing"?

Gotta agree with you there. I despise the culture especially being born into it. Culturally they are racist, bigoted, parasitic, and backwards. I love the religion(about 70%), philosophy/philosophers, calligraphy, hospitality towards guests, and parts of the familial setup, but in the end the mainstream Arab world is terrible in this era(Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia/majority of the Arabian peninsula(besides the UAE because I love Dubai), and parts of Northern Africa are the main example. Some countries like Morocco and Turkey are worthwhile places though and aforementioned UAE. I hate the Turkish government and most of the male populace though(being half Turkish gives you experience into how much more beta they are than even American men).

[mikado]

Yeah, and?

Though the Kuran is directed towards people from the 7th century to the end of humanity, some verses were revealed in a specific context.
You cannot distinguish the context from the actual words in the Kuran. Some verses were even abrogated when they were no longer relevant to the context of that era.