Quote: (02-04-2014 02:08 AM)PoosyWrecker Wrote:
Holy shit! I've said it before that KM is today's version of the TKD/Krotty McDojos of the 80s and 90s, complete with unverifiable foreign special forces instructors, but look at that Roy Elhahananaian clip - its EXACTLY the goofiness you see in TKD point fighting.
I have taken a KM class and observed a few classes in person and on youtube. Today I train in stuff that works (the MMA subdisciplines). Krav has very slick classroom teaching styles that are good at making the inexperienced feel as if they are being aggressive and learning 'the real thing', I suppose this is part of the KM style, to instill false confidence in people.
You can draw some parallels between learning martial arts and learning game. Every game guru out there is trying to say that his techniques really "work" in the streets in getting you laid and are better than everyone else's product. Whether you were using Roosh's method, or Krasers or Mystery's may or may not get YOU laid, because the game techniques are only as good as the person using them. Even if you have mastered game, you will not get laid every night, and it will not work against EVERY girl under EVERY circumstance, but it will improve your odds greatly. I think this is analagous to martial arts disciplines. Even if you have mastered a technique, there's always someone out there who will hand your ass to you. I know TKD gets the shitty end of the stick in most discussions, but I've met TKD people I sure as hell would not fuck with. As for your claim of KM instilling false confidence in people, I don't know what you're talking about. I took it from 2005-2010 at one of the official training centers in L.A. I went in there not even know how to throw a solid punch to learning in a short amount of time how to properly jab, cross, hook and uppercut, bob, weave and maneuver in a fighting stance. And btw, the fighting stance and footwork in KM is basically the same as boxing. That said, in KM you are given the basics of boxing, enought to be able to properly use your fists in the street if you never knew how to before. You aren't going to be as good a boxer as someone who has dedicated his time ENTIRELY to boxing and all the conditioning that comes with it. It's the same with MMA. Most pro boxers feel that MMA guys can't box and if MMA guys had to fight under boxing rules only, they would get their asses handed to them by boxers, but what do you expect? Boxers specialize in boxing.
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That's a good drill but do you guys ever actually spar in class? Keeping your cool after getting rocked takes more than making yourself being dizzy. You got to be there to know what it feels like, so that when it does happen you won't be overcome by surprise. How do you defend multiples without knocking them out?
Yes, I sparred in every class. KM classes were one hour. First 15 minutes was warmup, stretches, conditioning. This could involve kicking and punching heavy bags, doing multiple sets of burpees, crunches, pushups, working with a partner on some technique, a lot of boot camp style stuff. By the time that ends you will already be exhusted. Then after that 30 mins of today's techniques, could be standup, ground work, weapon defenses, defense from chokes, takedowns or whatever. Then the last 15 minutes you partner up and spar. There are also 100% fight classes where that's all you do(not a requirement to take those but they are available). Sometimes the sparring would involve fighting multiple attackers. Sometimes they'd take a bunch of rubber knives and mark them with colored chalk and send you to fight against them and your job is the disarm the knife without getting jabbed by it and you will have the chalk mark on you to prove where the knife made contact. I really loved the drills and felt they prepared you for situations you'd actually encounter. But once again, the technique is only as good as the person practicing it, just like game. If a KM guy isn't aggressize enough, and doesn't have his technique down, he could end up hurt. Instructors tell you like it is. They don't want you fighting a guy with a knife or gun and specifically demand that you do not fight them if you don't have to. It's not worth risking your life if a guy is robbing you for the $100 in your pocket. Just give him the money. They teach you to only go for a gun or knife disarm if you've given the person your money and you are in a situation that you have no choice but to defend yourself. They were very clear that fighting a guy with a knife is the last thing you want to do and you probably WILL get cut to some degree and this only to be done when there's no other option but fighting for your life. I NEVER felt that I was given a false sense of confidence.
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If you are ever in Las Vegas or SoCal there a tons of gyms that will let you come in free for a day and pressure test your Krav techniques "shoot in for a leg and sweep him to the ground and go for a choke." I am curious how this technique looks in KM, do you have a video clip?
We learned these two take downs in my class:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qESIoCe66cA
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One more thing: If Krav actually worked then Israelis, a proud people, would have someone in the UFC, or WSOF, or RFA but they have zeeeeeero. For the same reason MMA doesn't have a Filipino Kali / Silat fighter, Chinese Tai Chi fighter, Tibetan Snake Boxer, Brasilian Capoeria fighter, or an Irish guy fighting in a Notre Dame mascot stance with the back of the hands facing front. Cause it doesn't work.
This is a bullshit point. I could just as soon say that if MMA worked so well, why don't they teach MMA to all our soldiers to use on the battlefield? Why don't they teach MMA to cops and air marshalls? Because they have ENTIRELY different applications. One is for a competitive environment that's enclosed where there are rules and referees and points and you are matched with someone of your weight class. One is pure self-defense and survival in an anything goes situation. If you are training for one, it will be at the expense of the other. A competitive fighter is trained to go the distance in a controlled environment, the military techniques are for ending the fight as quickly as possible and by any means necessary. Two *completely* different approaches. One key difference between MMA and KM is that in MMA, taking your opponent down for G&P is encouraged and will win you points by the refs. In KM, you are told to stay off the ground. You are taught to handle yourself on the ground if it ends up there, but you are taught that you really don't want to be there. There's a big difference betweeen an octagon mat and the concrete. And knowing you only have one person to fight in a sealed environment versus a bar where his friends may be kicking you in the head while you're going for that rear naked choke. If I training for the ring or octagon, I'd choose a competitive style. If someone was going to drop me off in a prison yard to fend for myself, I'd rather be an expert KM practitioner. That's just my preference. But either way, any technique is better than nothing.
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One other difference between KM and boxing and one that I like is that boxers are taught to fight using their fist in jab/cross/hook/uppercut combinations. You are taught that in KM as well but you are also taught other strikes that may be more appropriate for the street such as palm-heel strikes and hammer fists. I really like the palm-heel strike because it delivers the same blow as a fist but without the risk of breaking your knuckles. It's all the benefits of a punch without the risks. If I was going for a hook or uppercut I'd use fists. But for a strike dead-on the face where there's risk of breaking a knuckle on the forehead, palm-heel strikes are the way to go.