Quote: (02-03-2014 02:02 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

Quote: (02-03-2014 01:07 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Krav is a martial art that teaches fantasy tactics. This is a warm up for a real fighting art and it's what Krav considers sparring:

Why aren't they trying to hit each other in the face?

Most of the shots taken seem to be aimed at the center mass or sides.

Wald

Because they weren't wearing head gear for some reason. We wore head gear in my KM school and punches and kicks to the head were fair game.

Quote: (02-03-2014 11:26 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Krav Maga is phony nonsense designed to make Americans feel cool because it's based on "Israeli Special Forces" fighting. All marketing.

Boxing and Muay Thai is based on fighting a resisting opponent.

You can go on YouTube and see boxers owner multiple attackers.

The impracticality of Krav can by seen by anyone who uses basic logic.

You can't actually practice death blows or anything like that against a human opponent. At best you'll get to go up against a punching bag or dummy.

I've fought a bag and I've fought humans, they're two completely different experiences.

Good luck to anyone who tries their double larynx jab reverse hammer punch in a real fight.

My boxing teacher always said, "it's not the style that matters, it's how you train."

Quote: (02-03-2014 04:00 PM)RXB Wrote:  

Quote: (02-03-2014 11:26 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Krav Maga is phony nonsense designed to make Americans feel cool because it's based on "Israeli Special Forces" fighting. All marketing.

Boxing and Muay Thai is based on fighting a resisting opponent.

You can go on YouTube and see boxers owner multiple attackers.

The impracticality of Krav can by seen by anyone who uses basic logic.

You can't actually practice death blows or anything like that against a human opponent. At best you'll get to go up against a punching bag or dummy.

I've fought a bag and I've fought humans, they're two completely different experiences.

Good luck to anyone who tries their double larynx jab reverse hammer punch in a real fight.

I don't think the people here railing against Krav know that much about it. I've taken up a couple different styles and I can say that practicality is one of the strong points of KM.

KM has nothing to do with magical death blows. Who told you that? At least not what's taught to civilians. You are taught however to strike weak points fast and hard and end the confrontation as quick as possible.

And for you guys saying the training is weak, give me a break. We had drills where we were literally jumped by four guys at once and had to fight our way out. We've had drills where we had to spin around for a minute with our eyes closed to make us dizzy and simulate the feeling of having taken a few blows, and then had to defend ourselves against multiple attackers while dizzy. The training and sparring drills are pretty damn tough.

Did you guys ever watch the Fight Quest series on Discovery Channel a few years ago? They did one episode on KM.

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v10260388mTgKgdpY

The drills are one of my favorite things about KM. It will really push you to your physical limits.

Quote: (02-03-2014 01:12 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

And this is boxing. NO fancy marketing about how to learn LETHAL SELF DEFENSE TECHNIQUES FROM THE ISRAELI SPECIAL FORCES.

No ad copy or sales letters. No two-year contracts or high pressure sales tactics.

Just basic fundamentals of American boxing that you learn in a real gym:

Also, one more point on this(I saw this video years ago), you are talking about a guy who trained in boxing fighting against two guys who clearly couldn't find their way out of wet paper bag. Of course it's no contest. No matter what martial technique was used those two dudes would've been clobbered.

Boxing is great as a foundation, but it has severe limitations unless you combine it with something else. Now I'm not going to try and stand toe to toe and outbox a boxer. If that guy were attacking me, I'd shoot in for a leg and sweep him to the ground and go for a choke.

Quote: (02-03-2014 02:08 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote: (02-03-2014 02:02 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

Quote: (02-03-2014 01:07 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Krav is a martial art that teaches fantasy tactics. This is a warm up for a real fighting art and it's what Krav considers sparring:

Why aren't they trying to hit each other in the face?

Most of the shots taken seem to be aimed at the center mass or sides.

Wald

Because they weren't wearing head gear for some reason. We wore head gear in my KM school and punches and kicks to the head were fair game.

Is it common to wear headgear in training? I never have, and can't see why you would if you're only doing touch contact like this.

Holy shit! I've said it before that KM is today's version of the TKD/Krotty McDojos of the 80s and 90s, complete with unverifiable foreign special forces instructors, but look at that Roy Elhahananaian clip - its EXACTLY the goofiness you see in TKD point fighting.

I have taken a KM class and observed a few classes in person and on youtube. Today I train in stuff that works (the MMA subdisciplines). Krav has very slick classroom teaching styles that are good at making the inexperienced feel as if they are being aggressive and learning 'the real thing', I suppose this is part of the KM style, to instill false confidence in people.

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ad drills where we had to spin around for a minute with our eyes closed to make us dizzy and simulate the feeling of having taken a few blows, and then had to defend ourselves against multiple attackers while dizzy.

That's a good drill but do you guys ever actually spar in class? Keeping your cool after getting rocked takes more than making yourself being dizzy. You got to be there to know what it feels like, so that when it does happen you won't be overcome by surprise. How do you defend multiples without knocking them out?

If you are ever in Las Vegas or SoCal there a tons of gyms that will let you come in free for a day and pressure test your Krav techniques "shoot in for a leg and sweep him to the ground and go for a choke." I am curious how this technique looks in KM, do you have a video clip?

One more thing: If Krav actually worked then Israelis, a proud people, would have someone in the UFC, or WSOF, or RFA but they have zeeeeeero. For the same reason MMA doesn't have a Filipino Kali / Silat fighter, Chinese Tai Chi fighter, Tibetan Snake Boxer, Brasilian Capoeria fighter, or an Irish guy fighting in a Notre Dame mascot stance with the back of the hands facing front. Cause it doesn't work.

Quote: (02-02-2014 01:49 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

Quote: (02-02-2014 11:43 AM)dog24 Wrote:  

I dont think this has anything to do with race...

So do you think that every day in every major American city roving groups of white and Asian teenagers randomly assault black people, steal their wallets and stomp them into the ground? I've literally never seen that once, while the internet is full of videos of black teenagers pulling this exact same stunt against whites.

Honestly, imagine if the races in this video were reversed, and you had a group of whites laughing while they violently assaulted two non-resisting black guys. It would be all over the news as a hate crime.

As far as "is this a race issue" arguments go, that was basically a knockout blow and the reason why is because it's based on scientifically collected statistics.

Is it racist to cite statistics? The Black Student Union at the University of Minnesota think so. They Want Crime Alerts To Avoid Using Racial Descriptions.

We say that "shaming" is a great tool in the Manosphere. Slut shaming, fatty shaming, etc... Why not shame the demographic that picks fights and plays knockout yelling "WORLD STAR HIP HOP" so they can get their video posted online? If the generation, race, or gender I identify with was doing this, I would participate in the shaming. It's a powerful tool and this behavior was not as prevalent in the black community a few generations ago -- so we know it doesn't have to be this way.

Here are some tips I would have given the white boys that would I believe would have dramatically improved their chances:

1) Try not to further escalate but also be firm. If they saw the cameraman and heard the "ganstas" yelling WORLDSTARHIPHOP, they should have known they were being setup. Try to walk away from the group/camera without turning the back or letting guard down.

2) Throw the first punch. Very simple actually...just like we know about predictable IOIs from females, there is predictable fight posturing that occurs between males before a physical escalation. If these don't occur, things usually just stop after a little bit of chest thumping (95% of cases). If you detect them, you might as well beat them to the punch because you've crossed the line of no return. Notice how the first guy is slightly dazed after he gets hit the first time. His punches will never be as strong from that point on as they could of been if he would have cold cocked the guy when he was jiving up in his face.

3) Never fall down. It's better to take five blows to the face than to fall on your back. When the first guy falls to the ground, the group of cowards rush in to each try and stick their dick in his mouth like a bunch of faggots. If he would have fended off the first attacker even to some degree, the others would have been 90% less likely to try and "get some."

4) Always back up your buddy but also don't expect your friend to swing for you. These guys haven't done anything wrong so his buddy should have his back from the get go. Their destinies are linked at this point because these guys are just looking to fuck them over and they aren't going to have mercy on victim #2 because he let them knock out victim #1 "like a man." There is nothing manly about it and there are no rules in street fight so you better fucking go for the eyes like your life depends on it. Unfortunately, most guys don't understand that so victim #1 should be fighting as if he is by himself (which he basically was).


They got lucky. This is what a real street fight looks like and the guy in this video (an MMA fighter) deserved it.

Quote: (02-03-2014 06:20 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Quote: (02-03-2014 01:12 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

And this is boxing. NO fancy marketing about how to learn LETHAL SELF DEFENSE TECHNIQUES FROM THE ISRAELI SPECIAL FORCES.

No ad copy or sales letters. No two-year contracts or high pressure sales tactics.

Just basic fundamentals of American boxing that you learn in a real gym:

Also, one more point on this(I saw this video years ago), you are talking about a guy who trained in boxing fighting against two guys who clearly couldn't find their way out of wet paper bag. Of course it's no contest. No matter what martial technique was used those two dudes would've been clobbered.

Boxing is great as a foundation, but it has severe limitations unless you combine it with something else. Now I'm not going to try and stand toe to toe and outbox a boxer. If that guy were attacking me, I'd shoot in for a leg and sweep him to the ground and go for a choke.

Look at the man's footwork. Absolutely beautiful.

Eastern European guys don't fuck around. There is a sizable amount of men 18-35 who are in shape, regularly exercise and who can throw a punch over there. Something unseen in the USA in last 60 years or so.

The moral of this story: NEVER fuck with an Eastern European guy wearing track pants. After the collapse of USSR in the 90s, track pants were the de facto sign of being Russian mafia. This guy might not be mafia but he knows how to fuck someone up.

"The dividing line is Interstate 35. This happened exactly one block to the East of the dividing line, on the poorer side. What happens is that people go downtown in Austin to drink, then after they are done drinking, they head to their cars. Some of their cars, due to a shortage of parking West of I 35 on some nights, are parked on the East Side (the poorer side). Predators know that people return to their cars at night, sometimes in small groups, or alone, and they loiter around the area, looking for a weak target to assault and rob. It is not too uncommon to return to your car on the East Side to see your vehicle's window smashed in. That said, during the day, the area is pretty safe. At night, because of the potential for easy victimization of intoxicated (or sometimes sober) bar patrons, these predators roam the area looking for easy prey. The group of three white guys were naive as to the environment they had just entered. "They brought words to a fistfight," so to speak.

However, I prefer not to make this about race. My intent in starting the thread was more to explore the stunning show of weakness on the side of the two tall white guys and their shorter friend. I used black/white simply as an easy way to distinguish who I was referring to in the description of events. The larger socioeconomic aspects of the matter are above my pay grade. That said, if you ever expect to be on the East Side of Austin at night, do what I do, either roll with friends, or if that's not possible, wear your steel toe boots and walk like you have a pair, lol. Those of you advocating carrying a gun...more power to you if it makes you feel more secure."

This is hilarious, actually I think I may have seen this scuffle. I don't know when this was posted but I saw something like this about a month ago. I walk past this intersection every single time I go downtown usually rolling solo, the idea that this area is dangerous is silly. I don't know how this started but it wasn't a couple hipsters walking across 35. That happens all night. I have lived on the east side for 8 years and I own a house within two minutes of where this video was shot. It is not dangerous. All of the fighting in this was beyond gay.

Not sure why this became a race thread. Also, not sure why those punks in the video decided to attack the two lame hippies but you could tell they weren't authentically inner city kids, just some wannabes. They couldn't even throw a legit punch.

As for evidence of white abuse towards blacks, how much time yall got?

For most of American history between blacks and whites, blacks were by far more victimized by white violence than the contrary. That's not even a matter of debate when you look at the ledger of history. Lynchings, burnings, beatings of black people used to be typical Friday night entertainment for generations of whites.




Today, blacks are victimized by black violence more than violence from any other race.

Blacks are more victimized by black violence than every other racial group is combined.

So, it's not really a race thing per se. One could argue the legacy of race and racism in this country has had a hand in the development of social problems within the black community, but that probably exceeds the scope of this thread.

Besides, OP said his intention wasn't to make this a race thread. Cheers to that. Carry on.

Quote: (02-03-2014 01:42 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

That was full contact sparring against resisting opponents.

That was not even close to full contact sparring with resisting opponents.

I know a Krav Maga instructor who was an instructor in the Israeli special forces. I don't think what they train is the same as what most KM practitioners in the US train.

I remember one video that went viral some years ago. A black dude in British Columbia (Canada) was accosted randomly by three white supremacists. The black dude had some mma training and you can see it in his footwork in the recording of the incident (starts around 0:13 seconds).






Like MikeCF and others said, showing resistance and really going at one or two really hard tends to stun the other guys and can help in defusing their energy levels.

Quote: (02-04-2014 03:00 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

For most of American history between blacks and whites, blacks were by far more victimized by white violence than the contrary. That's not even a matter of debate when you look at the ledger of history. Lynchings, burnings, beatings of black people used to be typical Friday night entertainment for generations of whites.

Yep. And that was horrible. I was happy when Medgar Evers' killer was finally brought to justice decades after the murder.

Whites who commit acts of racial violence against blacks deserve lengthy prison sentences. Blacks who commit hate crimes deserve the same treatment.

Seems straightforward to me, and yet we don't see any hate crimes prosecutions arising from the Knockout Game (at least when the victim is white).

That's bullshit, plain and simple, and it's on reason that race relations are getting worse.

Quote: (02-04-2014 03:34 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Quote: (02-04-2014 03:00 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

For most of American history between blacks and whites, blacks were by far more victimized by white violence than the contrary. That's not even a matter of debate when you look at the ledger of history. Lynchings, burnings, beatings of black people used to be typical Friday night entertainment for generations of whites.

Yep. And that was horrible. I was happy when Medgar Evers' killer was finally brought to justice decades after the murder.

Whites who commit acts of racial violence against blacks deserve lengthy prison sentences. Blacks who commit hate crimes deserve the same treatment.

Seems straightforward to me, and yet we don't see any hate crimes prosecutions arising from the Knockout Game (at least when the victim is white).

That's bullshit, plain and simple, and it's on reason that race relations are getting worse.

The burden of proof is very high when it comes to enforcing hate crime laws. Keep in mind blacks have been targets of the KO game as well, particularly the elderly. You would have to be able to prove the attacker behaved with specific racial animus.

Evers' killer wasn't prosecuted under hate crime laws (they hadn't come into existence yet). His trial was in '94, and he died in 2001 at 80 years of age. Hardly justice considering the relatively short number of years he spent behind bars.

Quote: (02-04-2014 03:20 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I remember one video that went viral some years ago. A black dude in British Columbia (Canada) was accosted randomly by three white supremacists. The black dude had some mma training and you can see it in his footwork in the recording of the incident (starts around 0:13 seconds).

Like MikeCF and others said, showing resistance and really going at one or two really hard tends to stun the other guys and can help in defusing their energy levels.

This guy still got fucked when he got knocked down and they managed to grapple him. I was hoping that he'd win, but sometimes the odds are just too bad.

Quote: (02-04-2014 03:00 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

Not sure why this became a race thread. Also, not sure why those punks in the video decided to attack the two lame hippies but you could tell they weren't authentically inner city kids, just some wannabes. They couldn't even throw a legit punch.

HC: Good posts and you make some good points. This ROK post is what really got me thinking about this.

Racism against blacks was definitely worse and still exists today. I see videos like that from BC and wish that guy would have been able to break a couple necks.

But it's a two-way street. We can't wait on folks like Bill Cosby to be critical of their own communities. If the reaction every time someone points out something like simple statistics is: "Damn, race thread. Really? Really?? Really???" Race relations will never improve. We need to have this discussion as a nation and I wish Obama would start the conversation in earnest.

Those neo nazis in that clip ended up getting caught. I actually went up to BC (Vancouver) a few months after that happened. One of my boys up there is the most alpha male white dude in the world. I'm talking like too alpha for the forum (no facebook or social media for that guy). Fuckin' spartan. Hunts deer and makes his own deer pepperoni. Pulls bitches like there's no tomorrow. Anyway, he was saying that most people in BC were pissed about that incident and they helped the police in arresting those guys.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...-1.1160941

Interestingly, the black dude in the vid was of South African descent - a place that's no stranger to racial animosity.

I thought he slipped accidentally when he hit the ground but it looks like the one guy connected with a punch to his right temple.

Quote: (02-04-2014 03:45 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

The burden of proof is very high when it comes to enforcing hate crime laws. Keep in mind blacks have been targets of the KO game as well, particularly the elderly. You would have to be able to prove the attacker behaved with specific racial animus.

Evers' killer wasn't prosecuted under hate crime laws (they hadn't come into existence yet). His trial was in '94, and he died in 2001 at 80 years of age. Hardly justice considering the relatively short number of years he spent behind bars.

The point is that Evers' killer was pursued and that anyone who commits such crimes knows he will be pursued. If you want "justice," wait until you die and go before God - because there is no such thing as justice on this earth.

As far as the challenge of proving hate crimes goes...The burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt, same as in every criminal trial. To convict someone of a hate crime, a jury must agree that there was racial motive or animus behind the attack.

There's nothing particularly challenging about proving that a KO game was a hate crime when you have people on video say, "Get the white boy!" Racial epithets and racially-charged language is circumstantial evince of racial animus and is sufficient for a conviction under the hate crimes statutes.

As for the video of the black guy getting KO'ed - well, convict the white kids, too. Who on the forum has ever said that whites should be able to assault blacks? I've never seen that and am sure those guys would get banned.

If you want, we can do this. You go to YouTube and find videos of whites assaulting blacks in the U.S.

I'll go find videos of blacks assaulting whites in the U.S.

Let's sees who finds more. I'll wager I can find at least three times as many videos.

The Knockout Game is primarily a problem of the black community. That's supported by overwhelming evidence.

Saying that you are a bad person because the KO game is a black thing would be racist. You are not the color of your skin and are not responsible for what members of your race does.

Recognizing that the KO game is indeed something that blacks overwhelming play is not racist. It's a simple verifiable observation about the world.

Quote: (02-04-2014 04:17 AM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Quote: (02-04-2014 03:45 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

The burden of proof is very high when it comes to enforcing hate crime laws. Keep in mind blacks have been targets of the KO game as well, particularly the elderly. You would have to be able to prove the attacker behaved with specific racial animus.

Evers' killer wasn't prosecuted under hate crime laws (they hadn't come into existence yet). His trial was in '94, and he died in 2001 at 80 years of age. Hardly justice considering the relatively short number of years he spent behind bars.

The point is that Evers' killer was pursued and that anyone who commits such crimes knows he will be pursued. If you want "justice," wait until you die and go before God - because there is no such thing as justice on this earth.

As far as the challenge of proving hate crimes goes...The burden of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt, same as in every criminal trial. To convict someone of a hate crime, a jury must agree that there was racial motive or animus behind the attack.

There's nothing particularly challenging about proving that a KO game was a hate crime when you have people on video say, "Get the white boy!" Racial epithets and racially-charged language is circumstantial evince of racial animus and is sufficient for a conviction under the hate crimes statutes.

As for the video of the black guy getting KO'ed - well, convict the white kids, too. Who on the forum has ever said that whites should be able to assault blacks? I've never seen that and am sure those guys would get banned.

If you want, we can do this. You go to YouTube and find videos of whites assaulting blacks in the U.S.

I'll go find videos of blacks assaulting whites in the U.S.

Let's sees who finds more. I'll wager I can find at least three times as many videos.

The Knockout Game is primarily a problem of the black community. That's supported by overwhelming evidence.

Saying that you are a bad person because the KO game is a black thing would be racist. You are not the color of your skin and are not responsible for what members of your race does.

Recognizing that the KO game is indeed something that blacks overwhelming play is not racist. It's a simple verifiable observation about the world.

Hey Mike. Not sure why you wrote such a long post. We're not even in disagreement.

I was just saying with respect to hate crime laws, you have to be able to demonstrate motive. It's not even enough for some black kids from the hood to say "get that white boy" when attacking a white KO game victim. Sure, it can be brought up in trial, but that in itself does not really prove that those kids went out with the intent to seek out a white person and attack them on the basis of their race. Consider that "white boy" is a term generally used from kids in that community to refer to white guys in general. That doesn't "prove" racial animus.

This is different from that white guy in Texas who played the KO game against an elderly black man and fed hate crime charges were filed against him. The white guy recorded the incident and even stated his "motive" for the attack. He said let's see if I attack a black person whether this will get national TV coverage. He set out to find a black victim, which obviously constitutes a hate crime.

Anyone who seeks out a victim on the account of their race deserves to be prosecuted under such laws. However, as a legal matter, establishing motive can be hard absent of clear and compelling evidence. Just ask any lawyer or lookup articles on the topic.

This was brought up after the Zimmerman trial when the Feds were investigating him on possible hate crime charges. Even if he had profiled Martin, or referred to him by some racially loaded language in the 911 call he made, and shot him at the end of the day, that by no means suggests that he went out of his house and decided to shoot a black kid on the basis of his race.

There's a lot of articles out there about the problem of motive in hate crime cases.

Why should we bother with looking up videos of what is the race of kids who play the KO game? What does that even accomplish?

Who's denying that most kids from the inner city happen to be black and that those who play a game the comes from that ic environment are also typically black?

That's like me saying, let's go into some history books and I bet I'll find more incidents of white violence against blacks than the opposite or lookup recent incidents of discrimination against blacks vs black discrimination against whites. What would be the point of that? Should I hold you or any white person responsible for centuries of white violence or discrimination against blacks? Is that a problem of the white community as a whole?

I don't think so. So identifying the race of people involved in the KO game doesn't really accomplish anything. That's not my problem.

Also, the thing about Evers' killer is that it was rare someone like him was brought to trial. Many men of his age got away with the type of killing that he did, it's just their victims were less prominent. That was actually a key defense of his during the trial. He was saying if you're going to take me down, why not take everyone else who committed crimes of that nature yet were never brought to trial?

Quote: (02-04-2014 02:08 AM)PoosyWrecker Wrote:  

e more thing: If Krav actually worked then Israelis, a proud people, would have someone in the UFC, or WSOF, or RFA but they have zeeeeeero. For the same reason MMA doesn't have a Filipino Kali / Silat fighter, Chinese Tai Chi fighter, Tibetan Snake Boxer, Brasilian Capoeria fighter, or an Irish guy fighting in a Notre Dame mascot stance with the back of the hands facing front. Cause it doesn't work.

Hilarious... If something doesn't transcribe successfully to a sport it doesn't work.

Of course a weapon based martial arts like Kali wouldn't work well in MMA. How many MMA guys train in only one martial arts? Does that mean they don't work if more than one is needed to win in the MMA?

These arguments just get funnier every time this subject comes up.

Quote: (02-04-2014 02:08 AM)PoosyWrecker Wrote:  

Holy shit! I've said it before that KM is today's version of the TKD/Krotty McDojos of the 80s and 90s, complete with unverifiable foreign special forces instructors, but look at that Roy Elhahananaian clip - its EXACTLY the goofiness you see in TKD point fighting.

I have taken a KM class and observed a few classes in person and on youtube. Today I train in stuff that works (the MMA subdisciplines). Krav has very slick classroom teaching styles that are good at making the inexperienced feel as if they are being aggressive and learning 'the real thing', I suppose this is part of the KM style, to instill false confidence in people.

You can draw some parallels between learning martial arts and learning game. Every game guru out there is trying to say that his techniques really "work" in the streets in getting you laid and are better than everyone else's product. Whether you were using Roosh's method, or Krasers or Mystery's may or may not get YOU laid, because the game techniques are only as good as the person using them. Even if you have mastered game, you will not get laid every night, and it will not work against EVERY girl under EVERY circumstance, but it will improve your odds greatly. I think this is analagous to martial arts disciplines. Even if you have mastered a technique, there's always someone out there who will hand your ass to you. I know TKD gets the shitty end of the stick in most discussions, but I've met TKD people I sure as hell would not fuck with. As for your claim of KM instilling false confidence in people, I don't know what you're talking about. I took it from 2005-2010 at one of the official training centers in L.A. I went in there not even know how to throw a solid punch to learning in a short amount of time how to properly jab, cross, hook and uppercut, bob, weave and maneuver in a fighting stance. And btw, the fighting stance and footwork in KM is basically the same as boxing. That said, in KM you are given the basics of boxing, enought to be able to properly use your fists in the street if you never knew how to before. You aren't going to be as good a boxer as someone who has dedicated his time ENTIRELY to boxing and all the conditioning that comes with it. It's the same with MMA. Most pro boxers feel that MMA guys can't box and if MMA guys had to fight under boxing rules only, they would get their asses handed to them by boxers, but what do you expect? Boxers specialize in boxing.

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That's a good drill but do you guys ever actually spar in class? Keeping your cool after getting rocked takes more than making yourself being dizzy. You got to be there to know what it feels like, so that when it does happen you won't be overcome by surprise. How do you defend multiples without knocking them out?

Yes, I sparred in every class. KM classes were one hour. First 15 minutes was warmup, stretches, conditioning. This could involve kicking and punching heavy bags, doing multiple sets of burpees, crunches, pushups, working with a partner on some technique, a lot of boot camp style stuff. By the time that ends you will already be exhusted. Then after that 30 mins of today's techniques, could be standup, ground work, weapon defenses, defense from chokes, takedowns or whatever. Then the last 15 minutes you partner up and spar. There are also 100% fight classes where that's all you do(not a requirement to take those but they are available). Sometimes the sparring would involve fighting multiple attackers. Sometimes they'd take a bunch of rubber knives and mark them with colored chalk and send you to fight against them and your job is the disarm the knife without getting jabbed by it and you will have the chalk mark on you to prove where the knife made contact. I really loved the drills and felt they prepared you for situations you'd actually encounter. But once again, the technique is only as good as the person practicing it, just like game. If a KM guy isn't aggressize enough, and doesn't have his technique down, he could end up hurt. Instructors tell you like it is. They don't want you fighting a guy with a knife or gun and specifically demand that you do not fight them if you don't have to. It's not worth risking your life if a guy is robbing you for the $100 in your pocket. Just give him the money. They teach you to only go for a gun or knife disarm if you've given the person your money and you are in a situation that you have no choice but to defend yourself. They were very clear that fighting a guy with a knife is the last thing you want to do and you probably WILL get cut to some degree and this only to be done when there's no other option but fighting for your life. I NEVER felt that I was given a false sense of confidence.

Quote:Quote:

If you are ever in Las Vegas or SoCal there a tons of gyms that will let you come in free for a day and pressure test your Krav techniques "shoot in for a leg and sweep him to the ground and go for a choke." I am curious how this technique looks in KM, do you have a video clip?

We learned these two take downs in my class: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qESIoCe66cA

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One more thing: If Krav actually worked then Israelis, a proud people, would have someone in the UFC, or WSOF, or RFA but they have zeeeeeero. For the same reason MMA doesn't have a Filipino Kali / Silat fighter, Chinese Tai Chi fighter, Tibetan Snake Boxer, Brasilian Capoeria fighter, or an Irish guy fighting in a Notre Dame mascot stance with the back of the hands facing front. Cause it doesn't work.

This is a bullshit point. I could just as soon say that if MMA worked so well, why don't they teach MMA to all our soldiers to use on the battlefield? Why don't they teach MMA to cops and air marshalls? Because they have ENTIRELY different applications. One is for a competitive environment that's enclosed where there are rules and referees and points and you are matched with someone of your weight class. One is pure self-defense and survival in an anything goes situation. If you are training for one, it will be at the expense of the other. A competitive fighter is trained to go the distance in a controlled environment, the military techniques are for ending the fight as quickly as possible and by any means necessary. Two *completely* different approaches. One key difference between MMA and KM is that in MMA, taking your opponent down for G&P is encouraged and will win you points by the refs. In KM, you are told to stay off the ground. You are taught to handle yourself on the ground if it ends up there, but you are taught that you really don't want to be there. There's a big difference betweeen an octagon mat and the concrete. And knowing you only have one person to fight in a sealed environment versus a bar where his friends may be kicking you in the head while you're going for that rear naked choke. If I training for the ring or octagon, I'd choose a competitive style. If someone was going to drop me off in a prison yard to fend for myself, I'd rather be an expert KM practitioner. That's just my preference. But either way, any technique is better than nothing.







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One other difference between KM and boxing and one that I like is that boxers are taught to fight using their fist in jab/cross/hook/uppercut combinations. You are taught that in KM as well but you are also taught other strikes that may be more appropriate for the street such as palm-heel strikes and hammer fists. I really like the palm-heel strike because it delivers the same blow as a fist but without the risk of breaking your knuckles. It's all the benefits of a punch without the risks. If I was going for a hook or uppercut I'd use fists. But for a strike dead-on the face where there's risk of breaking a knuckle on the forehead, palm-heel strikes are the way to go.

Quote: (02-04-2014 03:52 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

This guy still got fucked when he got knocked down and they managed to grapple him. I was hoping that he'd win, but sometimes the odds are just too bad.

Truth be told, he only got punched in the body when he got down, he hid his face well, so I would consider that a pretty good result for him.

Quote: (02-04-2014 02:40 AM)svenski7 Wrote:  

Here are some tips I would have given the white boys that would I believe would have dramatically improved their chances:

1) Try not to further escalate but also be firm. If they saw the cameraman and heard the "ganstas" yelling WORLDSTARHIPHOP, they should have known they were being setup. Try to walk away from the group/camera without turning the back or letting guard down.

2) Throw the first punch. Very simple actually...just like we know about predictable IOIs from females, there is predictable fight posturing that occurs between males before a physical escalation.

Yeah, that was the weird thing - it was pretty obviously fight or flight time but they chose neither.

In regards to Israel...

This is the equivalent of being surrounded by four Arab guys yelling "WORLD STAR HIP HOP," striking first, kicking their ass, taking their house and their front lawn. Then, when big bro UN comes to break it up, telling them to fuck off because you're not done fucking these guys up.

They didn't give Egypt their front lawn (Sinai) back for quite some time.

1:15: Israeli troops parachute into Jerusalem and engaged in heavy hand-to-hand combat with Jordanian troops. Israel wins.

As the narrator says, "The Six Day War was a textbook exercise on how, if you have to go to war, to win it."

Who cares if they have a famous MMA fighter or not.