[Samseau]

(10-28-2013 06:44 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

I feel sorry for you guys in America - it is such a relief not having to worry about medical expenses. And I work for the government - so I get a 'death in serivce' benefit - and I get a pretty good pension.

What's your tax rate?

[speakeasy]

(10-28-2013 06:51 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 06:44 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

I feel sorry for you guys in America - it is such a relief not having to worry about medical expenses. And I work for the government - so I get a 'death in serivce' benefit - and I get a pretty good pension.

What's your tax rate?

Why? We spend more on health care then the countries with single-payer system. Whether it's being spent by the government or our of our own pockets to private carriers, it's still money out of our pocket regardless. Maybe we should be asking why other countries have better results while spending less money than we do.

[Samseau]

(10-28-2013 07:06 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 06:51 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 06:44 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

I feel sorry for you guys in America - it is such a relief not having to worry about medical expenses. And I work for the government - so I get a 'death in serivce' benefit - and I get a pretty good pension.

What's your tax rate?

Why? We spend more on health care then the countries with single-payer system. Whether it's being spent by the government or our of our own pockets to private carriers, it's still money out of our pocket regardless. Maybe we should be asking why other countries have better results while spending less money than we do.

Are you kidding me? Before Obamacare my health insurance was cheaper than my car insurance.

I don't give a shit about what "we" spend. I care about what I spend.

[speakeasy]

(10-28-2013 07:46 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 07:06 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 06:51 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(10-28-2013 06:44 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

I feel sorry for you guys in America - it is such a relief not having to worry about medical expenses. And I work for the government - so I get a 'death in serivce' benefit - and I get a pretty good pension.

What's your tax rate?

Why? We spend more on health care then the countries with single-payer system. Whether it's being spent by the government or our of our own pockets to private carriers, it's still money out of our pocket regardless. Maybe we should be asking why other countries have better results while spending less money than we do.

Are you kidding me? Before Obamacare my health insurance was cheaper than my car insurance.

I don't give a shit about what "we" spend. I care about what I spend.

Who is your health insurance carrier? Gone up by how much?? How do you know the ACA is the reason your health insurance went up and not some other factor like your age?

[Kingsley Davis]

Excellent write up that mesh with this thread.

"I know a woman who lived in Alaska. Every year she got about a $2000 check because of all the oil in Alaska. She got a share of the profits. Which reminds me: by what right do companies drill for oil, not share the profits with the people in the state, then sell them products of the oil, when they owned the oil in the first place? Isn't that stealing? If we had a true free market wouldn't they get a share of the profits from their land?"

"It'd been estimated that if wages had continued to rise as they had during the '50s the average salary would inbetween $90,000 and $100,000. I've seen other estimates that if they had continued as they had during the '40s it be close to $300,000 a year. And it's not because of interference by the government.
If we had a true free market, I think everyone would own at least two plots of land (which used to happen not so long ago when people had fishing cabins in the mountains along with their homes), we'd be making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and everything would be peachy-keen.

Instead, we've got morons arguing about the effects of the minimum-wage and telling people with IQs of less than 100 they're supposed to "improve their skills" to get higher-paying jobs - while missing the Big Picture.

People are starting to wise up as to what the State is about. I've seen people pull out of those catastrophes known as the public schools, build $4000 houses in rural areas and move their families there. Why?

Because they are looking to find a life that they love, so what they do will not be work. They don't want to be working for the Man."

http://uncabob.blogspot.com/2013/10/choo...never.html

[scorpion]

(10-28-2013 08:11 PM)Kingsley Davis Wrote:  

"It'd been estimated that if wages had continued to rise as they had during the '50s the average salary would inbetween $90,000 and $100,000. I've seen other estimates that if they had continued as they had during the '40s it be close to $300,000 a year. And it's not because of interference by the government.
If we had a true free market, I think everyone would own at least two plots of land (which used to happen not so long ago when people had fishing cabins in the mountains along with their homes), we'd be making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, and everything would be peachy-keen.

This is definitely true. When you look at the productivity gains of the past fifty years, especially the gains enabled by computers and the internet since the 1980s, it's absolutely astounding. And almost none of those productivity gains were shared with workers in the form of higher wages or fewer working hours. Instead, we get the reverse: people are working more hours for lower pay. What the hell happened? Essentially, a conspiracy between big business/banking and the government to siphon off the lion's share of this new wealth while ensuring that the population continues to slave away. They don't want the average man to be making $100k, nor do they want the average man to have the free time that would accompany his only having to work 20 hours a week to support himself and his family. That would give the average man the time and the means to educate himself, to question the status quo. That represents an existential threat to the powers that be, so they want to keep as many people on the wage slave treadmill as possible.

And so it is that we have had decades of stagnant wages and the creation of the "service economy", where the vast majority of jobs are completely unnecessary, bullshit, makework jobs. It's completely insane. Everyone working a service job, slaving away for 40+ hours a week to serve other people in order to earn enough money to purchase services for themselves. Nevermind that human beings lived for millennia without 99.99% of the "services" that flood our economy today. It's all just a bunch of bullshit makework, the only purpose of which is to keep money flowing through the economy and to keep the population occupied with the need to make money for themselves.

To get an idea of just how much modern work is bullshit, consider the humble accountant. Accountants have been around for well over a hundred years. In the old days, they used to keep track of everything without the use of computers or calculators. Everything was done by hand. Records were kept meticulously in ledgers, calculations done with an abacus.

Now fast forward a few decades to the invention of the computer, the internet and spreadsheet software. A single accountant with Microsoft Excel can literally do the work of a dozen accountants fifty years ago, and do it in a fraction of the time. Spreadsheet and database software is so powerful in general, not just for accounting, but also for logistics and operations, that the productivity gains are incredible. In fact, I remember reading once (I think in a book or article about Robert McNamara, who worked in logistics during WW2) that if the Allies had had access to modern day spreadsheet software in the 1940s the effect would have been more decisive than the creation of the atomic bomb. That's how powerful the efficiency gains are from a logistical and operational perspective. Simply by being able to manipulate data hundreds of times more quickly and accurately than their enemies, the Allies would have won the war faster and more decisively than they did thanks to the Manhattan Project. The millions of tiny efficiency gains from real-time information reporting and tracking are in sum much more powerful than a nuclear weapon.

So basically, we're living in an era where all this incredible efficiency is being completely squandered, as far as actual quality of life goes for the majority of the population. Do you think anyone really gives a fuck that they can have a 60 inch television with 500 channels, or a cell phone that talks and plays videos? Is that supposed to make up for the fact that he's forced to spend the vast majority of his waking hours slaving away in some soul-sucking job? Wouldn't he be much happier with a 19 inch television working 20 hours a week? Everyone is on this treadmill, and most people don't even realize it, much less understand that it's completely unnecessary.

The amount of bullshit work going on in the year 2013, with our existing technology at its current level, is absolutely absurd. It's the equivalent of making 90% of our population go out and dig holes and fill them back up for 8 hours a day.

[Samseau]

^ Back when I was working at my bureaucracy, I would be the one who would go out and help the kids, while there were 5-7 people above me making sure I did my job:

- psychologists
- family planners
- coordinators
- supervisors
- family helpers

Every month, I'd be forced to attend a "care plan meeting" with the mother and all of the other "specialists" and discuss the progress of the child. Without fail, at every meeting, I'd do the least amount of talking yet I was the only person who spent any direct time with the child.

I'm 99% sure every government bureaucracy in America is like this.

[Kingsley Davis]

I wonder if the reaction to Obamacare by businesses to cut employee hours is a double edge sword that could bite them in the arse (less hour, less pay to spend on their shite) or a bigger chasm between the haves and have nots? Some straight non first world shite.

[iknowexactly]

The upper class doesn't want company. You buy an apartment building, you are a threat. It has to be kept too expensive for the masses to earn what they're producing in terms of wealth.

[iknowexactly]

(10-28-2013 04:47 AM)Felix88 Wrote:  

Even when I was a high school student back in Vietnam 8 years ago I smelled bullshit about 'work is glory' shit people drill into your head all day long. Came to Japan, and seeing all those miserable salarymen made me hate working even more. I love talking to people though, is there any way you can earn money just by talking that is not host club? May be I should do counseling.

I work in health care, I mainly talk to people and do paperwork, if you have an elite private practice you don't have to do a lot of paperwork.

But that is a very hard perch to get to. Easiest way would be Masters In Social WOrk, get license, slowly develop practice.

Bachelors- 4 years
MSW Degree: 2 Years
Post degree required work experience: 2 Years
Post-license work to build up private practice: 2-5 years.

Some people make money with bullshit things like "Life Coaching" but it is really a sales job depending on natural talent. You maybe have it but I don't know.

[ADN]

I work 12 hour shifts. The nice thing about 12 hour shifts is that there is a lot of flexibility in how you schedule your work:

I use to work 3 twelves and then take 4 days off

I also use to occasionally do something like 1 on, 2 off, 2 on, 2 off

Right now I work 7 on, 7 off.... And it can be a tough stretch.... By day 5 I am exhausted.... But get a second wind for the last 12.....7 off is amazing by the way

Right now I have used this schedule to give me the opportunity to pick up a second job in my field, in order to save some money towards buying my first rental property.

The downside of a 12 hour shift is that my day essentially consist of work, eat, sleep, gym..... But truthfully an 8 hr shift screws your day pretty handily as well.

[cardguy]

Taxes in the UK.

Most people pay 20% income tax (rising to 45% for income above 90 thousand dollars).

And you pay 20% sales tax on most purchases.

They are the two main taxes that come to mind.

[scorpion]

(10-28-2013 11:28 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

^ Back when I was working at my bureaucracy, I would be the one who would go out and help the kids, while there were 5-7 people above me making sure I did my job:

- psychologists
- family planners
- coordinators
- supervisors
- family helpers

Every month, I'd be forced to attend a "care plan meeting" with the mother and all of the other "specialists" and discuss the progress of the child. Without fail, at every meeting, I'd do the least amount of talking yet I was the only person who spent any direct time with the child.

I'm 99% sure every government bureaucracy in America is like this.

I used to do some contracting work for a Federal agency and had similar experiences. Basically, the government would hire a bunch of Federal employees with certain job titles, then hire contractors to perform the actual responsibilities of those jobs. The employees were just there to sign off on the contractor's work. They never actually did anything except have meetings with each other, where they would discuss progress on "their work", which the contractors were actually doing.

Why have just one job when you can make it two?

The federal government in action.

It gets even better when you realize that the contracts themselves are awarded in a similarly insane style. For example, most people are probably familiar with Indian casinos, and understand how the government allows the Tribes to operate them on Indian land essentially as a form of reparations. But did you know that there are Tribes in Alaska benefiting from government largesse, as well? Except in this case, since nobody it going to freeze their balls off to go play blackjack in Alaska, the government helps these Tribes form contracting companies, and then awards them sweetheart Federal contracts which they can then sub-contract out to other companies. Then they just collect their cut. A bunch of Indians sitting around the frozen north collecting government contracting checks every month for doing nothing.

Basically the entire federal government - and the vast majority of our economy - is nothing but an elaborate makework jobs program.

[Basil Ransom]

Scorpion, there's a good chance those productivity numbers are trumped up.

In any case, I'm a big skeptic of population growth as a force for real income growth. The basics like rent and decent food are more expensive than 40 years ago, because you have more people chasing less land. The idea that greater population begets greater wealth after a certain point is part of the plague of economism. Feminism worsened all that by expanding the labor pool and yuppie status competition.

Just imagine we had a population small enough that it would be cheaper to feed cows grass instead of soy and wheat. Residents of the US would probably have optimal living conditions with 50 million people. We're just sold this bullshit idea that we need to have a big population to be a powerful country so that we'll have self-respect. If your self-respect is grounded in imperialistic government, you've got bigger issues.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Scorpion Wrote:

A single accountant with Microsoft Excel can literally do the work of a dozen accountants fifty years ago, and do it in a fraction of the time.

Excellent post.

Now that you've mentioned accountants, I'd like to mention that the average accountant doesn't spend his day whacking off behind his desk as he wraps up his accounts at 09:45 am with the help of spredsheets. Instead, he really does kill himself with work crunching numbers, filling out forms and double-checking stuff. On top of that, he uses complicated ERP software that his company has paid thousands of dollars for to streamline those spreadsheets and keep in touch with everything.

However, most of his work has been created by the government in the form of excessively complicated tax code, pointless regulations, favorable treatment of its bureaucratic workers (who actually get to slack off all day and screw up everyone depending on them) and so on. The poor accountant still has so much work on his hands that every company bigger than 3-4 employees needs a full-time one and needs to squeeze him out completely for 10 hours a day.

Maybe I'm biased because of being in Croatia, which is a nightmarish fusion of capitalism and communism with an enormous bureaucracy, but as Samseau said I don't imagine it's different anywhere else. Even in countries that do get an efficient and non-time-wasting process going, the hordes of parasites eventually legislate into existence their pointless positions and strangle the ones doing real work.

For that reason I'd be reluctant to blame the big business/banking in this regard. But I understand the accountant is just an example, you have a great point in general.

[cardguy]

I was reading an interesting book called 'The Grip of Death' the other day. It saying that due to Fractional Reserve Banking - most money (apart from a small amount printed by the government) is only ever created when it is borrowed by people from banks.

As such 97% of the money supply comes from banks - and most of that is created to lend the money for people to get mortgages and buy houses.

And it is the continuous expansion of the money supply from banks which leads to the accelerating increase in house prices. Houses used to take 5-7 years to pay off. As opposed to the 25 years they take now. And if house prices didn't continue to rise it would mean there would be a lack of money circulating in the economy which would lead to a deflationary spiral and an economic depression.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Grip-Death-Des...1897766408

Also - the word mortgage originally meant 'grip of death'.

It is a fascinating book - but I am not knowledgable enough to judge its claims. It is one of those 'everything you think you know is wrong' type books.

Another interesting thing about the book is the work of CH Douglas. He was an engineer who became popular in the 1920's here in the UK. He came up with a radical new understanding of the nature of economics (the A+B Theorem) which fundamentally challenged the role of banking. And challenged the assumptions underpinning free-market and socialist thinking.

He is an interesting chap who has been completely forgotten. Although his ideas did become popular in Canada a few decades ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_credit

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Cardguy, I believe that book is more or less correct. But I wouldn't treat it as an indictment of the fractional reserve banking in general, but more of an explanation why this 'reserve' needs to be increased steeply. That way banks will still serve as useful tools for propagating the new money, but the infinite loop through which everyone ends up with unpayable debts to themm would be crushed.

[speakeasy]

(10-29-2013 01:25 AM)cardguy Wrote:  

Taxes in the UK.

Most people pay 20% income tax (rising to 45% for income above 90 thousand dollars).

And you pay 20% sales tax on most purchases.

They are the two main taxes that come to mind.

That's inline with what we pay here. Most are paying 20-25% federal income tax, then some tax for whatever state they live in, and in some cases a local city tax and property tax if they own their dwelling. Property tax can be astronomical in places like San Francisco or New York. You have sales tax here too, though less than what you guys pay. We may pay more taxes than you, yet you guys have more services. Go figure.

[wolf]

I quit my job last week.

I saw I was going into debt more and more every month. I was negative $100-500 every month.

I tried to cut my expenses but my job required me to drive my own car and I wasn't compensated for gas or my cell phone. Two people left so i had to cover my shift and theirs too. Apart from extremely low pay, I was getting text messaging till almost midnight from my boss, even though work ends 5-6pm.

I wrote my resignation and quit.

[Giovonny]

I used to work 50+ hours a week and make decent money. It was okay for a while but it became soul sucking. I was working on others peoples problems all day and ignoring my own development. It was a good career but I had to walk away. The good part is that I was living with family and didn't have to pay any rent. That allowed me to save a lot of money, a couple thousand a month. Then, the real estate market crashed. I was lucky that I had some cash. I bought the cheapest condo I could find.

I wanted a small mortgage. A mortgage that I could easily afford and even pay off in a realistic time frame. I found a perfect little bachelor pad in foreclosure.

This freed up a lot of my time. I refused to give that time back to some employer that didn't care about my life. I realized that I wanted to control my time.

I took 2 seperate part time jobs. One during the day and the other in the late afternoons/early evenings. These jobs have a lot of flexibility. I can basically make my own schedule and even cancel the night before if I don't want to go in.

I set up my schedule like so..

Mondays -- I sleep in and only work in the afternoon/evening. I refuse to be woken up by an alarm clock on Monday morning! I eliminated Monday mornings from my life. This is a life hack that I am really proud of. Monday mornings I browse the forum in bed, make a big breakfast, get back in bed, read, grocery shop, workout, cook, laundry, etc.

Tuesdays -- I work hard, sometimes both jobs.

Wednesdays -- I work hard, often both jobs.

Thursdays -- I work hard, sometimes both jobs.

Fridays -- I only work mornings. I like to start my weekend by 2-3pm on Fridays.

The Weekends -- I do whatever the fuck I want. I rarely work weekends.

This is the time schedule that works for me. I make enough to live and I also have enough time to pursue my own personal passion and development.

I only make about 50% of what I used to make but I'm much happier and more fulfilled. If I still had my old traditional 9-5 job, I would have more money but I would be miserable.

I am a wild dog, I need freedom.

If I feel caged, I will lash out. I would have ended up shooting up my workplace or something. That life isn't for me. It drives me crazy! For me, conformity is insanity!

[Dagonet]

Wouldn't he be much happier with a 19 inch television working 20 hours a week?

[/quote]

Don't we all have the option to withdraw and scale back? I could work half the amount and live a half-shittier lifestyle.

But I guess part of the point is that we should be able to work less, have more free time, AND still have the same earning/buying power, due to the massive gains in efficiency.

[cardguy]

To add to my earlier post - the book also says that fractional reserve banking is the reason why every country in the world has massive debts. Since debt is needed to bring into existence the very money needed in each country.

This is an important point since common sense would tell you that at any one time - half the world's countires should have surpluses. And the other half should have debts. When the reality is that just about every country has massive debts.

And these debts - according to the book - give the politicians cover to cut support for industries they don't want to keep. All in the name of trying to decrease the national debt.

This whole area fascinates me. But it is hard for me to piece together the information since whenver I have a question, it usually takes me a few more books, before I randomly come across a passage which addresses the question I previously had in mind.

I am still exploring these areas. AsI am with the works of (and about) Karl Marx. One recent Marxist idea I came across is the idea that countries need to waste vast amounts of money in order to prevent asset inflation and massive booms and busts. As such the military-industrial complex is a route by which countries can get rid of money from the economy by spending it in ways which are not resourceful or strictly neccesary. And by doing so - the economies avoids suffering from the falling rate of profit which Marx says is one of the contradictions of capitalism which will lead to its downfall.

Massive money was wasted in the past simply be having wars. But thanks to nuclear weapons - it is unsafe for major countires to have big wars. As such the money is just spent on uselessly stockpiling weapons instead.

The above might well be bullshit - but it gives you an insight into some of the interesting perspectives that studying Marx provides. I am a year into my study of Marx. And I feel it will be another ten before I really get a handle on what is going on with his critique of capitalism. He is one of those writers who throws up ten interesting new questions for every one answer he provides.

[la_mode]

Unless you're making a lot of money or are your own boss, work is basically indentured servitude.

[Kingsley Davis]

[cardguy]

Yeah - I should add that the 'Grip of Debt' book I read was probably one of the most important influences on the following (famous) Zeitgeist documentary:

'The Creature from Jekyll Island' would be another imprtant influence on the above film.