[Firestone]

Wrong attitude bro. If you obsess with the negative side of things it will kill you. Instead say to yourself you love work and over time it will get much easier. I have used this technique to great effect in many parts of my life.

[Yeti]

I enjoy going to work. Reading Robert Greene's Mastery, I made the decision to move to New York City last year to pursue what I thought would be my life's work. Fortunately, I was right.

Some people's work relates back to their childhood, it's something that closely relates to what makes them different, a little weird. Like anything, there is stress and discomfort. But when you've chosen the right pursuit, in the long run you derive satisfaction and even joy out of the down sides - a kind of antifragile conditioning. These benefits make you interesting and put a bounce in your step, and should suffice to overcome the myriad stressors that come with any work.

If you choose poorly, this joy and satisfaction becomes perennial anxiety and dissatisfaction. Your game is off, and you make mistakes in your personal life.

While some find work that suits them, it's quite possible that such self-actualization is simply not possible for others - perhaps not everyone can have a calling.

[polymath]

The best way to realize how you feel about work is to be unemployed, apply for jobs, and not get a single call.

Nothing worth having comes without its tolls.

[Scott Free]

I've had several jobs by now, with a decade and a half here in the US. My last one was pretty grueling and I hated every second of it. As luck would have it, I sought out leads and found one that suits my needs (at least for the time being.)

If your goals were the same as mine, i.e. travel the world, live in Europe or South America, start a 'freedom business' and bang foreign women, then I'd say save up, live a minimalist lifestyle (in the US) and look for something you can enjoy and make a living off of. I saw somewhere on here the other day, they were talking about self publishing ebooks on Amazon and earning what would be a game changer for me. So... if you're into writing...

[Cattle Rustler]

(01-04-2014 07:55 PM)polymath Wrote:  

The best way to realize how you feel about work is to be unemployed, apply for jobs, and not get a single call.

Nothing worth having comes without its tolls.

This.

I was unemployed for about 8 months and didn't have money to go out for a beer nor hot cheetos. It felt awful and desperate.

Now I have a job that I hate very much, but I look back to my unemployed days and think "OK Rustler, give it 2 more months, save up, then switch gigs."

It's better to have a shitty job than no job.

[cardguy]

It would be interesting to compare the unemployment benefits for the UK with the US.

[baristabanger]

I recently got out of the military with no valuable civillian experience and lived off my unemployment for the summer months--got out this past June. Up in WI I was getting 368 a week with up to 15 months total of benefits. Thought bout milking it, but laws were inacted recently to provide proof that you were contacting at least four employers every week.

I could've managed that, but I caved and got a job, which yes, sucks balls.

Have my free gubbmint paid education waiting to be tapped, just don't know what the hell I should go into. Thinking something like web development or IT, but until then... 10 hr 3rd shift work at a call center for 11.50/hr.

[speakeasy]

I had to revisit this thread as some of these topics have been swirling around in my head.

One truth that can not be denied is that if you are doing something you don't enjoy for 8 hours a day, something you have no passion for, something you'd walk away from a second if money weren't an issue, then you are a slave. Plain and simple.

Whether you work a shitty 9-5 job or are a slave in the literal sense with shackles around your ankles, you are only doing what you do because the threat of not doing it is worse. You are there and kept in place out of fear. In the case of the literal slave, fear of being beaten, tortured or killed. In the case of the wage slave, fear of creditors, fear of homelessness or starvation.

When you include lunch hour, commute times and preparation, that 8hrs a day may easily be 10hrs. Well over half of your waking hours during the week dedicated to something you don't want to do because you fear what would happen otherwise.The more debts and responsibilities you take on, the more entrapment. A big mortgage, cars, marriage, kids, maybe private education for the kids if your city has a shitty school district.

I agree with cardguy that I hate work as well. Even if the job weren't that bad I'd still rather not be there and every minute of the day I can't wait till the hands point to 6pm. I don't like work even down to the philosophical level. Work to me means entrapment. Work is the antithesis of freedom. A necessary evil. It means having to get up an an hour that feels unnatural to my body's circadian pattern. It means having to drive through sometimes hellish traffic. It means having to play office politics, having to get permission if I want to take a trip for a few days or even go to the doctor. Having my fate and most of my waking time in someone else's hands. Let me also mention that I don't think I'd hate all work necessarily. If it's work you are passionate about, that's a different story. But if you give everyone the would-you-quit-if-you-won-the-powerball litmus test, 95%+ of the population is probably not passionate about their job.


The only escape I see from this neo-slavery is:

1) Being in a position where you no longer work for your money but your money is working for you. For example, owning rental properties in high demand areas or capital investments with good returns.

2) You have a product(physical or intangible) that you own that other people are willing to pay for. Start a company and enslave other people willing to trade their freedom for stability. Selling a service on the other hand is still work, except your bosses are now called "clients".

3) Work for someone, but you enjoy the work to the point that you feel you've found your calling in life and this job allows you to do what you would normally want to do anyway. E.g. someone who loves flying working as a pilot. In that work doesn't feel soul-draining.

4) Learing survival skills, going off the grid, building a cabin and living off the land.

5) Death.

[worldwidetraveler]

Speakeasy, you seem to be stuck in a rut. Maybe you need to do something radically different in order to figure out what you want.

I don't think most people understand the difficulties of starting your own business. I also don't think most people are able to work for themselves. You need to work consistently otherwise say goodbye to what you worked on.

Most can't deal with the freedom of working for themselves and need some type of structure that they are not in control of.

The whole online freedom business is mainly a dream. It's still work. It's still slavery until you get to the point where you can off load most of that work onto others whom you will still need to manage.

Most people will never get to that point because they are doing it for the wrong reasons.

For most people, you will be a slave. You're master will be a boss, your company or the land you are required to work in order to survive. The best thing you can do is to find something you enjoy doing that gives you the lifestyle you're happy with. If you're unhappy and continue doing the same things that make you unhappy, well... you won't probably be happy.

[WestCoast]

^ pretty much agree the strategy I'm currently using is this.

1. Work a job you like that pays decently. You won't love everything about any job so don't waste your time. Even if you own your own biz you have to deal with ridiculous customers or even worse ridiculous employees. Every job has a headache
2. In the meantime work on a side business with maybe 20 hours of effort per week. You'll see some growth but it won't grow as fast as it could if you quit your job. This is basically the point though with good/medium effort you'll at least have your feet wet. With some, not a ton, of effort you'll make some $$ (no I don't mean $60K per year out the gate but more around $10-20K. Nothing to scoff at for the little effort it takes).
3. Avoid lifestyle inflation, by doing 1 and 2.. You should be saving a grip of cash each year. I truly believe anyone who wants to make $100K in a major us city absolutely can.

So with that set up you should be able to put away low to mid 5 figures. Grow a small biz, do not lose your mind and finally feel more secure over time.

Once you have about $100K in the bank the money stress goes away from a survival perspective and you can see the light. You know you'll be fine in the future and on top of all that you have a smal side hustle generating a few hundred bucks to a grand a month and you're working a tolerable job. At that point you can either 1) work harder at the regular job or 2) decide to focus more on your growing small biz.

Anyway that's the basic strategy, obviously more is always better. If you can't live a fun life on 60 hours per week of work... You're simply not trying hard enough.

[Brodiaga]

(01-05-2014 05:10 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

It would be interesting to compare the unemployment benefits for the UK with the US.

In the US, it varies depending on the state, how long you worked and how much you were making before you were laid off. Between 2009 and this year, some people spent up to 99 weeks getting unemployment insurance which could be as much as $1500/month in some states. It's not enough to live large in an expensive city, but enough to feel pretty comfortable living in more remote parts of the country, even travel around a little.

[worldwidetraveler]

(02-06-2014 08:07 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

^ pretty much agree the strategy I'm currently using is this.

1. Work a job you like that pays decently. You won't love everything about any job so don't waste your time. Even if you own your own biz you have to deal with ridiculous customers or even worse ridiculous employees. Every job has a headache
2. In the meantime work on a side business with maybe 20 hours of effort per week. You'll see some growth but it won't grow as fast as it could if to quit your job. This is basically the point though with good/medium effort you'll at least have your feet wet.
3. Avoid lifestyle inflation, by doing 1 and 2.. You should be saving a grip of cash each year. I truly believe anyone who wants to make $100K in a major us city absolutely can.

So with that set up you should be able to put away low to mid 5 figures. Grow a small biz, do not lose your mind and finally feel more secure over time.

Once you have about $100K in the bank the money stress goes away from a survival perspective and you can see the light. You know you'll be fine in the future and on top of all that you have a smal side hustle generating a few hundred bucks to a grand a month and you're working a tolerable job. At that point you can either 1) work harder at the regular job or 2) decide to focus more on your growing small biz.

Anyway that's the basic strategy, obviously more is always better. If you can't live a fun life on 60 hours per week of work... You're simply not trying hard enough.

It's a good strategy. My dad worked in the foundry and he said a lot of guys had side stuff going on from trucking companies to farms. They basically used the money they made in the foundry and poured it into their side businesses.

Many of those guys became millionaires when the side businesses gained steam.

From my experience, once you setup the products and sales funnels, it is a matter of ramping up the traffic. At that point, you should be quitting your job with a smile.