[Wutang]

To get back to the topic -

You know what I've really hate about the usual 9 to 5 grind? Traffic.

For a lot of office jobs, or at least the ones I've had there usually isn't some boss looking over your shoulder making sure you're spending every second is spent doing something for the company. So even if there isn't much to do work wise you could find other activities to occupy your time. I'm not just talking about mindless distractions like Facebook. At my last office job I used to bring my philosophy books in and would read them during down time. I also spent some time practicing my programming on CodeAcdemy. The point, when you are actually at your job even if you can always find something to occupy yourself with.

This simply isn't possible when you are stuck in a car. You aren't going to be able to read, practice a skill, or do anything else except pay attention to driving unless you want to greatly increase your chance of getting involved in an accident. Time spent in traffic simply is wasted time that goes no where. Hell, even if you do waste your spare time at the office playing Farmville at least you're getting paid to do it. No company is going to pay you for the time you spent commuting.

I would gladly turn down a job that paid $10,000 more a year then the job I currently whole but required 30 minutes of extra commuting every day. Those 30 minutes add up and I would rather have the extra time then the extra money.

There is a way to make sure you never have to commute anywhere again and that would be to work from home. Honestly that's the biggest motivation for why my eventual goal is to end up in a position where going to work would just involve me walking from my bed to my computer.

[LeBeau]

^ Have you tried listening to podcasts, lectures, etc.? I'm sure there's language, career, or general interest areas you'd enjoy.

I find I sometimes even look forward to that knowing I have a drive coming up, because it's rare that you get that sort of completely alone and uninterrupted time to yourself during a normal work day.

But overall I agree with your post, best option is always no alarms, no commutes, etc.

[Bill]

Till I was 24 I worked quite hard then I did only part time easy going jobs. I lived frugally all the time to be able to quit the need for job alltogether. When I was 38 I did. Best thing ever. Work is mostly slavery. Maybe it´s because most guys at work are dept slaves so in case you have fun with your work your co workers might be annoying.

Yes, commuting is shit, not only because of the hours but to see miserable people in the morning is no fun.

[AnonymousBosch]

(10-29-2013 10:58 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

This simply isn't possible when you are stuck in a car. You aren't going to be able to read, practice a skill, or do anything else except pay attention to driving unless you want to greatly increase your chance of getting involved in an accident. Time spent in traffic simply is wasted time that goes no where.

I do a lot of songwriting in the car or on the bike: I pop the backing track on and repeatedly listen to it, improvising until I start shaping a melody and lyrics out of it. It doesn't distract me from driving at all, and I could give two shits if someone passing sees me singing. Girls at lights seem to dig it.

You could fill your drive time with podcasts, by learning a language, or listening to an audio book. Driving isn't that complicated.

[Steve9]

(10-27-2013 04:01 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

There is no more vulgar way to go through life than to overvalue the necessarily fleeting freedoms of youth and undervalue the world of thought and feeling that accrues to those that are open to the long grind of experience.

The innocence that you think you've lost is worthless. The person you thought you were was nothing but a clever but callow youth.

The real rewards are not where one imagines them to be. They come to those that let life and experience grind them.

I found this idea intriguing. What philosophy or religion was it derived from?

[w00t]

I hate work with a passion.

When I was a kid and people asked me "what do you want to be when you grow up?". I always said I want to be retired.
I looked at old people in the park just chilling out and feeding pigeons and I was so jealous. I wanted to be like them just young.

In my 15 years of work experience I have done all kinds of jobs. From paperboy, mailman, to hauling luggage at the airport, to clerk in a jewel shop and office drone.
I hated every one of those jobs and I got fired from a lot of them.

You know what my dream job is? I want to sit around in my underwear and count money all day.

Cardguy you say you get depressed by the end of the weekend. I was getting depressed by early saturday. It was the same back in school Teachers would tell me all the time "you look like you dont want to be here" and it was true. And then I heard the same from my bosses in all my jobs. "You look unhappy". Well no shit I hate this fucking job!!

My solution was to get into online freelancing. It was a first step because now I can work from home and dont have to sit around in an office all day.

But I discovered I still hate working for other people just the same. And I think I know why. I realized Im being exploited. I hear all the time what a great worker I am and how awesome my work is yadda yadda. And yet I get paid shit wages. Even if I get 100 bucks an hour some asshole is making ten times that money off of my work. And Im still being his bitch and depending on him. Im SICK and tired of making other people rich with my hard work.

So now Im busting my ass to build up a real online business. Im working on making MYSELF rich for a change. Fuck all this shit and fuck all these assholes who pretend theyre doing me a favour by enslaving me. Im gonna make it on my own or die trying IDGAF. Im gonna have people working for ME and make ME rich. And then Im gonna sit around in my underwear and count my money all day.

[DVY]

=/. I work 6 days week and commute through some of the worst rush-hour traffic in the USA.

Work itself seems to move fairly quickly, but waking up in the morning and rush-hour traffic kill me.

[RougeNoir]

(10-29-2013 10:58 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

This simply isn't possible when you are stuck in a car. You aren't going to be able to read, practice a skill, or do anything else except pay attention to driving unless you want to greatly increase your chance of getting involved in an accident.

I would gladly turn down a job that paid $10,000 more a year then the job I currently whole but required 30 minutes of extra commuting every day. Those 30 minutes add up and I would rather have the extra time then the extra money.

Try public transportation. Quality varies in different cities but there appears to be a better quality standard now in America and Europe than say 10 years back. All you have to do is pay attention where your stop is. You don't have to worry about driving, switching lanes, etc. You can read a book, call a business partner, answer emails, chill etc. Hell, if you get hurt in an accident, you can sue. Get out the suburbs and move into a centrally located apartment where this can happen. Save those transportation costs for something else.

[Wutang]

I was re-reading the topic again and noticed some people were discussing about how it would be much better if you could cram an entire week's of work over a smaller period of time, say 3 days rather then 5. I did hold a job that was like that and I can tell you it was way better then the usual Monday through Friday grind. And the main reason was pretty much for the reason that speakeasy mentioned back - you can enjoy your time off without having the thought in the back of your head that you're going to be back on the grind pretty soon. As anyone remotely introspective knows, the time that comes before a negative event is a lot of times actually more draining then the actual event itself.

An interesting point of discussion would be to talk about jobs where this is possible. In my case, I was working at a data centers. Data centers are up 24/7 which means there has to be someone present at all times which means people tend to work in 12+ hour shifts rather then 9 hour shifts so that's when you end up in those situations where you get 3-4 days off every week. If you can get a night shift or weekend position then it's even better 1) the manager isn't on site so no one to look over you shoulder and 2) you get hit up with less calls and tickets. I remember when I worked night shift I would spend a lot of time either reading or surfing the net.

[Wutang]

(10-30-2013 12:56 PM)RougeNoir Wrote:  

(10-29-2013 10:58 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

This simply isn't possible when you are stuck in a car. You aren't going to be able to read, practice a skill, or do anything else except pay attention to driving unless you want to greatly increase your chance of getting involved in an accident.

I would gladly turn down a job that paid $10,000 more a year then the job I currently whole but required 30 minutes of extra commuting every day. Those 30 minutes add up and I would rather have the extra time then the extra money.

Try public transportation. Quality varies in different cities but there appears to be a better quality standard now in America and Europe than say 10 years back. All you have to do is pay attention where your stop is. You don't have to worry about driving, switching lanes, etc. You can read a book, call a business partner, answer emails, chill etc. Hell, if you get hurt in an accident, you can sue. Get out the suburbs and move into a centrally located apartment where this can happen. Save those transportation costs for something else.

Unfortunately pretty much all my jobs have been in places where you pretty much need a car to get to the site. But yeah I would much rather take public transportation if I had a choice. A lot of times when I go down to the city I'll take the train even though the round trip cost is near $30 now because I'd rather be able to read a book on the trip rather then having to worry about driving.

[Felix88]

'Works' in modern age are not real works, real works in the olden days are called hobbies nowsaday, no wonder the world keep declining.

[cardguy]

Michel Houellebecq discussing his first novel:

Quote:

I hadn’t seen any novel make the statement that entering the workforce was like entering the grave. That from then on, nothing happens and you have to pretend to be interested in your work.

[cardguy]

Here is the longer quote - where he touches on other issues.

Quote:

“I hadn’t seen any novel make the statement that entering the workforce was like entering the grave. That from then on, nothing happens and you have to pretend to be interested in your work. And, furthermore, that some people have a sex life and others don’t just because some are more attractive than others. I wanted to acknowledge that if people don’t have a sex life, it’s not for some moral reason, it’s just because they’re ugly. Once you’ve said it, it sounds obvious, but I wanted to say it.”

[Steve9]

(10-27-2013 02:20 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

I fucking hate work.

I despise every hour I am there. It is an hour closer to death - and an hour not spent on something else I would rather be doing.

Most people don't like their job. However, one of the leading causes of depression and unhappiness is unemployment. It's a paradox.

The book "The Pleasures and Sorrows of Work" explores this theme :

"We spend much of our lives at work – but surprisingly little gets written about what makes work both one of the most exciting and most painful of all our activities.

The Pleasures and Sorrows of Work is an exploration of the joys and perils of the modern workplace, beautifully evoking what other people get up to all day – and night – to make the frenzied contemporary world function. With a philosophical eye and his characteristic combination of wit and wisdom, Alain leads us on a journey around a deliberately eclectic range of occupations, from rocket science to biscuit manufacture, accountancy to art – in search of what make jobs either fulfilling or soul-destroying.

The book amounts to a celebration and investigation of an activity as central to a good life as love – but which we often find remarkably hard to reflect on properly. As Alain points out, most of us are still working at jobs chosen for us by our sixteen-year-old selves. Here is the perfect guide to the vicious anxieties and enticing hopes thrown up by our journey through the working world."

http://alaindebotton.com/work/

[wolf]

(11-05-2013 03:00 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

Here is the longer quote - where he touches on other issues.

Quote:

“I hadn’t seen any novel make the statement that entering the workforce was like entering the grave. That from then on, nothing happens and you have to pretend to be interested in your work. And, furthermore, that some people have a sex life and others don’t just because some are more attractive than others. I wanted to acknowledge that if people don’t have a sex life, it’s not for some moral reason, it’s just because they’re ugly. Once you’ve said it, it sounds obvious, but I wanted to say it.”

I was called ugly in high school, and I consider myself a 4 or 5/10 in looks but if women rated us mostly on looks like we do women then I would really be in trouble.

Those guys have no sex life not because they are ugly, but because ugly got to them.

Btw, Elementary Particles is my favorite book, followed closely by Platform.

[pitt]

My sister called me the other day and told me that I should get a job. That I should work for 20 years and then I will have enough money to buy a house and then I can go travelling. I couldn't stop laughing.

Every time somebody tells me to get a job, i just think about Big L's line:

''My mum told me to get a job, I said fuck that''

[cardguy]

[commiejoe]

I read the first page and the last page of this thread, so not sure if this was already answered:

What is keeping you at your job?
What kinds of bills are you paying that you need a certain level of income? Mortgage? Car payments? Over-priced basics (electricity, water/sewage, garbage, phone, etc.)? What luxuries are you spending too much on (tv, internet, magazine subscription, credit cards etc.)?

What is your total monthly budget versus your income?

I'm not trying to get you down, I'm just trying to understand the life you live that requires a certain amount of income.

[Neo]

I look at all my jobs as stepping stones towards freedom. The more money I can save and invest the more freedom I have.

There's a few things I've hated about working. One is the feeling of being stuck. I used to feel this way, but I changed my spending and saving habits and I'm so much better off. I contend that most people who feel stuck are leading lifestyles and living way beyond their means. I talk to so many people who hate work and 'just can't get ahead' yet they are buried in credit card debt and one pay check away from humility.

By avoiding marriage, mindless consumerism, and impulse purchases, you're way ahead of the game. I believe every man needs to establish a financial position where if their income dropped to zero, they'd be fine for a period of time. This means eliminating debt, the more debt and attachments you have the more slave-like your life will be. I sometimes laugh when I talk to some younger people, they are starting with a -100,000 net worth and they talk about how they are GUARANTEED to make a certain amount of cash. I tell them that nothing is guaranteed in life, except death. At the same time we all need to cultivate skills, hustles, and contingency plans. That's how life is, what if this happens? What if that happens?

I thought to myself what if I got laid off? I'd be disappointed but I wouldn't give much a fuck. I'd research destinations for a month and then immediately book a ticket to somewhere I want to go. This also has another interesting effect. You start taking more risks. You become more confident.

The other is thing I've hated is the fact that I wasn't completely controlling my own fate by working for someone. Like w00t said, you're basically making someone else money. If they are paying you X, then you can guarantee they are making multiples of what they pay you.

This is a more difficult thing to overcome. In the past few years, I've gained a lot of skills and make money on the side, but not to the point where I can completely quit my job. I'm getting closer every year though. I believe that if I keep plugging away eventually something will pop.

[cardguy]

My ambition is to get to a stage where I only work 4 or 3 days a week.

The laws have changed in the UK such that the employer has to allow part-time working for anyone that wants it.

I don't give a fuck about what job I am doing - if it is only for 3 days a week.

[Sombro]

The cliché is "If you do what you love you'll never work a day in your life," and it's partially true.

But when you do love what you do (as I do), you tend to notice most other co-workers just doing the bare minimum (and a lousy job at that). So ironically it's even more frustrating than having a job where you wouldn't give a shit. (my only crime was i loved too much )

--

In hindsight, I noticed a job pattern that may be of interest to those just starting out.

Menial Pre-teen Jobs: Mowing lawns, babysitting.
Crap Food Service Job #1: Worked at buddy's dad's food establishment.
Crap Food Service Job #2: Worked at buddy's mom's food establishment.

Yes, crap jobs, but I (normally a slacker) took them seriously and did well at them.
Why? They weren't for strangers -- They were for people I already knew: neighbors, friends' parents.
Not that I worried so much about reputation, but it forced me to take ownership in the job at hand.
I was always able to put myself in the customers' shoes to view the job at hand and solve problems before they developed.

This pattern continued when working as a delivery guy and 90% of staff walked out. The business had a rich legacy and was worth saving as there was only one other competitor in town.
Got off my ass, went to library to read up on the field. Moved up to design position; moved up from there. Again, I was taking ownership -- not in the sense of being bossy, but sinking your best into it to keep it afloat, like it's your own baby.
Kinda like being in a band that makes great music, but your bandmates are idiots, slackers, or just plain evil.

That's the best I can describe it.
My actual job is considered a trade or a craft, which is probably why I invest too much of myself in it, especially in dysfunctional workplaces.

Which leads to this...

The Addictive Organization: Why We Overwork, Cover Up, Pick Up the Pieces, Please the Boss, and Perpetuate Sick Organizations

Whole 'nother can 'o worms...

[coolstorybro]

(01-04-2014 01:53 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

My ambition is to get to a stage where I only work 4 or 3 days a week.

The laws have changed in the UK such that the employer has to allow part-time working for anyone that wants it.

I don't give a fuck about what job I am doing - if it is only for 3 days a week.

Four days a week is too much, 2.5 day is optimal.

I know exactly how you feel. The knowledge on Mondays that you have to be there the next 5 days is feeling like a proper slave. The people pretending to care so much about your company.

Do what I did, start working on a business to support yourself when you get off your job and at the same time, begin figuring out how to freelance in your industry. Save some money if you can.

In a year or so, your business should be doing ok, not nessecarily enough to live off, but combined with your freelancing should be enough.

Then don't wait for the perfect time, but just quit and embrace the fear - and freedom - of never having to go to an office again, unless you want to.

I've been self-employed for two years now and I'm never going back to full time employment again. I wouldn't mind a part time job in a challenging position, consider it after-education, but fukk if I will ever be a subservient employee again.

[Marlfox]

What about a job where you work blocks at a time (2 weeks on/3 weeks off)?

You wont have anything but work going on during those work weeks but then you will time to start projects/books and finish them before having to back.

I'm trying to convert into rig work, if not find another energy/environmental job that may have a seasonal aspect so I don't have to work through the summer at least.

I think it's hard to be happy with your job unless you can walk to work. Commuting is one the main reasons that work is a 'death by a thousand cuts'.

[commiejoe]

(01-04-2014 04:59 PM)Marlfox Wrote:  

What about a job where you work blocks at a time (2 weeks on/3 weeks off)?

You wont have anything but work going on during those work weeks but then you will time to start projects/books and finish them before having to back.

I'm trying to convert into rig work, if not find another energy/environmental job that may have a seasonal aspect so I don't have to work through the summer at least.

I think it's hard to be happy with your job unless you can walk to work. Commuting is one the main reasons that work is a 'death by a thousand cuts'.

Longshoreman, if you live near a port. 18hr days, but only for like 3-4days.
Insane income for easy work. Like, your own personal plane kind of income.

[Marlfox]

(01-04-2014 05:21 PM)commiejoe Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 04:59 PM)Marlfox Wrote:  

What about a job where you work blocks at a time (2 weeks on/3 weeks off)?

You wont have anything but work going on during those work weeks but then you will time to start projects/books and finish them before having to back.

I'm trying to convert into rig work, if not find another energy/environmental job that may have a seasonal aspect so I don't have to work through the summer at least.

I think it's hard to be happy with your job unless you can walk to work. Commuting is one the main reasons that work is a 'death by a thousand cuts'.

Longshoreman, if you live near a port. 18hr days, but only for like 3-4days.
Insane income for easy work. Like, your own personal plane kind of income.

Called dockers in the UK I believe. Thanks for the suggestion I'm going to have a look. Yet another job most people would never have heard of or considered but vital, well paid and so obvious when you see it.