[cardguy]

It is too late for me. I have being corrupted by work. I cannot forget the things I have experienced. I have lost my innocence.

I am cynical as fuck.

I will never recapture the person I was before entering the world of work.

[The Lizard of Oz]

Work itself is not "soul crushing". It's just a simple necessity.

What can be soul-crushing, over time -- if allowed to fester -- is the feeling of resentment.

People love to talk about getting out of the "corporate style grind". That may or may not be feasible or even desirable. It all depends. It's a matter of practical choice.

As far as expressing what you actually feel. Of course there is no problem with that. What would be the point of having a forum like this if you can't whine a little to your cyberpals ?

But it's also an opportunity to reflect on these feelings and what their rightful place is.

cardguy, in your case I think that part of the unstated emotion behind what you're feeling is pride.

I think you're a proud guy and you think you deserve a life of ease and comfort without having to work for it. And if you can't be allowed to have it, you feel resentment and you cling to that resentment as something to preserve for the sake of your pride and dignity.

That's the point of the crack about "learning to love Big Brother". You imagine that if you give up your resentment, you will have given up your pride or sense of special entitlement.

But this thinking is based on an error.

There is no Big Brother. You have to work simply because you weren't born rich. The question of what is deserved, of what is rightfully yours, is entirely irrelevant.

By letting go of your resentment, you are not relinquishing your claims to a special status. Those claims never had any standing to begin with.

Do not imagine yourself to be a prince who has had the throne snatched from under him and is now a serf. The kingdom you thought you had was an illusion.

There is no more vulgar way to go through life than to overvalue the necessarily fleeting freedoms of youth and undervalue the world of thought and feeling that accrues to those that are open to the long grind of experience.

The innocence that you think you've lost is worthless. The person you thought you were was nothing but a clever but callow youth.

The real rewards are not where one imagines them to be. They come to those that let life and experience grind them.

[speakeasy]

I think things would be better if rather than 5 days a week at 8 hours, we had 4 days a week at 10 hours. I think we could even get by with 3 days of work with 12 hour days. I could totally do that. Mon, Tues, Wed work from 8am to 8pm and then you get 4 days off.

The problem with workdays is that it's not just 8 hours, it's all the time getting ready for it, and then decompressing. If I have to be to work at 8, that means I have iron clothes, shower, commute, then I have that 1 hour lunch break which is mostly a waste of time, then commute home. The commute time is going to be the same no matter how long your work day is. So that's more like 12 hrs taken from your life, but you only get paid for 8 of them. It's just more efficient to have more work hours in one day, but less days on the job. You'd still put in the same hours at work, but you'll have more personal time.

It seems the best way to flee the matrix is to start your own biz or consultancy or provide information people are willing to consume. Let it be something you are passionate about so that doing it just feels like a natural extension of who you are. The tough thing though can be trying to figure out something you are truly passionate about that can be turned into a stream of income. Many people are passionate about music, but few musicians will ever make a comfortable living from music and not need a day job.

Samseau's idea about owning property is also a good one. Though that's not entirely free money either. I know people who own property and it can be as much a job as any other dealing with deadbeat tenants, people who trash the place, dealing with complaints, etc. Though still not a bad thing to go into once you've acquired enough property to have quite a passive income and can hire people to deal with the day to day problems.

--edit

While I relate to cardguy's sentiments about work to a large degree, I have to shelf this under "first world problems". This guy would gladly take the office jobs we complain about. We have the luxury to worry about such things.

[Samseau]

(10-27-2013 04:18 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

I think things would be better if rather than 5 days a week at 8 hours, we had 4 days a week at 10 hours. I think we could even get by with 3 days of work with 12 hour days. I could totally do that. Mon, Tues, Wed work from 8am to 8pm and then you get 4 days off.

The problem with workdays is that it's not just 8 hours, it's all the time getting ready for it, and then decompressing. If I have to be to work at 8, that means I have iron clothes, shower, commute, then I have that 1 hour lunch break which is mostly a waste of time, then commute home. The commute time is going to be the same no matter how long your work day is. So that's more like 12 hrs taken from your life, but you only get paid for 8 of them. It's just more efficient to have more work hours in one day, but less days on the job. You'd still put in the same hours at work, but you'll have more personal time.

It seems the best way to flee the matrix is to start your own biz or consultancy or provide information people are willing to consume. Let it be something you are passionate about so that doing it just feels like a natural extension of who you are. Samseau's idea about owning property is also a good one. Though that's not entirely a free money either. I know people who own property and it can be as much a job as any other dealing with deadbeat tenants, people who trash the place, dealing with complaints, etc. Though still not a bad thing to go into once you've acquired enough property to have quite a passive income and can hire people to deal with the day to day problems.

I like the idea of three 12-hour days. And definately property can take work, but it's probably 10% of the time you would spend doing a regular job. Plus, you can pour all of your work into a few 12-hour days and be done for the month.

[Teedub]

3 days a week, even with those hours, would be great. I could also definitely do that. However, you're still working for someone else outside of your own environment, which means travelling that you aren't paid for. Like we discussed privately, I'd work long hours freelancing, as it is sort of under your control in terms of when and where. Get up at 7, work for a few hours, chill for a bit, do a few more hours and you could have made a few hundred dollars. The commute, getting dressed up etc takes so much away from a productive day.

[cardguy]

Three 12-hour days is an interesting one. It would save alot of time - since alot of the wasted time to do with work is the going to bed, waking up, getting ready and travelling.

Some nurses (here in the UK) on the NHS apparently do this. I saw it mentioned in a story the other day.

[Teedub]

Firefighters (at least the one that I know) also do similar. I think it is definitely preferable. Although, I think it is 4 days on - 3 days off, rather than the 3 to 4.

[speakeasy]

(10-27-2013 04:27 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

Three 12-hour days is an interesting one. It would save alot of time - since alot of the wasted time to do with work is the going to bed, waking up, getting ready and travelling.

Some nurses (here in the UK) on the NHS apparently do this. I saw it mentioned in a story the other day.

And when you only have two days off, it can make it hard to actually enjoy those two days because you're thinking about being back at work in 48 hours. During Thanksgiving in the states, We get Thursday and Friday off. And you can truly enjoy it because it feels like a real break.

[cardguy]

My job means I work 5 days - have one off - work 5 days (where I finish at 1pm on the Friday) and then have three days off.

Much more fun that the usual two day weekend.

[cardguy]

Actually - having a job helped me swallow the red-pill.

Where I work - there are alot of people dating (or married) to fellow workers. I see them on their breaks sitting together and I sometimes find myself chuckling at their shitty lives. For some reason - I seem to always find myself sat in view of a married couple trying to not acknowledge the dullness that is their lives.

Hell - even being surrounded by married middle-aged women makes you want to analyse how society brainwashes people inot accepting such misery.

So - that was a benefit to me. I never spent much time round women before getting a job. And doing so made me flee down the path marked MGTOW - http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-21040.html

[MikeCF]

Work is unnatural.

Look at how hunter-gatherer men live. Really, go to YouTUbe and watch a documentary.

"Work" involves hunting, fishing, mentoring younger males (or if younger being mentored by an older male) and doing things that directly benefit yourself and community (building shelter).

Work is done for a few hours a day.

The rest of the day is spent lounging, eating, fornicating, dancing, and just chilling.

The vast majority of work is pointless.

The only "hack" is to be self-employed.

I could never work for someone else. My labor is directly rewarded. I don't have some master skimming it.

(But self-employment has its own challenges.)

Anyhow, work sucks because it's unnatural. You shouldn't like working. Not liking work is totally normal.

[Giovonny]

Work?

I don't have time for work!

--Porfirio Rubirosa

[Samseau]

I honestly think work is for losers. If you're working, it's because you're losing at life.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

I honestly think work is for losers. If you're working, it's because you're losing at life.

Well certainly the US tax code seems to be based on that very sentiment.

[Screwston]

What if you sell everything and go backpacking for a few years

[iknowexactly]

I do buy the idea that if circumstances force you to work, while you're there you might as well be doing the best you can at it. It's the only satisfaction you're going to get while you're making money mostly for someone else.

I try to make my boss's job as easy as possible and get everything done with as little blowback for him/her as I can.

And escape as soon as I can, hopefully with an in to get back there when I piss away all my money again...

[AnonymousBosch]

(10-27-2013 03:18 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 03:09 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(10-27-2013 02:51 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

Still - to me - work is like being in prison.

The problem isn't the conditions.

The problem is having your freedom taken from you.

Look at it this way: you'd experience the same loss of freedom if you were working for subsistence, but you're in a position to do it for less hours a day in an air-conditioned / heated environment and won't die of starvation should a blight wipe out this year's crops.

Either that or learn to hustle. A mate of mine thinks there's nothing more masculine than making easy money.

I remember a girl I was hitting on last year telling me her big life philosophy: "Everyone shouldn't have to work. We should all just do the things we love doing and get paid for it. So artists should make art and singers should sing. Everyone is good at something."

My response: "Who cleans the toilets?"

I agree. I am not stupid. I know how the economic system works.

But again - it is like cancer. It exists - people get it. Hell - from my analysis - I think it will never even be cured. Since the basis of cancer is practically indistinguishable from the basis of life itself (the continuous division of cells).

But - you are still allowed to be a bit depressed if you get cancer. I'm just having a moan...

Sorry is that beta? :-)

You speak of freedom and adventure, but you have to realise that, for the majority, these are purely fantastical concepts. Basing your life expectations on abstracts will only frustrate and disappoint.

On some level, you are going to have to work for your security. Accept that. Once you have, you can explore options.

You can sacrifice creature comforts for lowered expectation of you and less demands on your time. You can travel and find work where you can with nothing but the clothes on your back. You're even free to join a commune and hook up with an earth mother with seventies bush.

You can sacrifice job security and work towards doing something you find more interesting. A mate just became a registered fireman at 41 after working in IT since university. His girlfriend thought he was crazy and constantly told him to stick with his job, but also pounced and fucked his brains out when he came home in his turnout gear.

You can look into jobs with different hours. A mate who died recently only used to work cleaning bathrooms for two 14 hours shifts on Saturday and Sunday, leaving the rest of the week free. It was a modest salary, but he had the freedom to indulge in his interests.

The other big point: what are you going to be doing with the freedom work responsibility is encroaching on? I hear men speak about this kind of thing all the time, and, when they do have time, all they do is drink beer, watch television or play video games. Plan your future to take advantage of your free time in a constructive way.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

But that's not a realistic point of view. It is one thing to think that we have a shitty job so we should improve it if possible, and completely another to characterize all work as bad simply because it's mind-numbing.

If you weren't an office drone, you'd still have to work to till your piece of land, tend to animals, sew clothes, build shelter and do things that let you survive. Doing office work is just an abstraction that lets you skip that stuff so that someone else does it, but everyone has to work. I don't understand how the world could exist if people didn't work.

Imagine a cat (if cats could speak) saying that it doesn't want to hunt because it find it mind-numbing.

[Valhalla]

OP I highly relate to everything you say.

To me work is just soul crushing.

[Felix88]

Even when I was a high school student back in Vietnam 8 years ago I smelled bullshit about 'work is glory' shit people drill into your head all day long. Came to Japan, and seeing all those miserable salarymen made me hate working even more. I love talking to people though, is there any way you can earn money just by talking that is not host club? May be I should do counseling.

[Grit]

Here are some of the flaws with trying to see work as a positive:

1. The 9-5 concept of work was formed when 99% of men worked because 99% of women married those men and had kids. There was a big ole homogenous middle class. How can you support the concept of work and ignore the shift in demographic? Who the hell wants to work to support some a washed up slut? Who the hell want to work alongside the ditzes of the world?

2. If you need to rationalize how great work is, you probably do not have entreprenurial spirit. If you think about it, the only real work you should do is to assemble the mental picture yourself in the form that a girl would want to fuck. Thats all. The days of protestant work ethic are over. Take Roosh as an example. Is he still sitting as a microbiologist in a la somewhere, secretly concealing his bangs from his spinster coworkers? Fuck no. He writes a lot, and that IS work, but he is literally writing a script for his lifes direction. That is the only work you should be doing.

[space]

Work is definitely something that needs to be "hacked"

Here's how:
Go to uni - do stem
Spend your early career learning and training
Evening courses, training camps etc
Get a collection of industry recognised certifications
Quit work
Start your own company as a self employed contractor
Instantly you'll be hired
Get paid 3 times the average wage
Achievement unlocked

[Christian McQueen]

I've worked almost every conceivable job known to mankind and corporate work is the devil hands down.

I've worked everywhere from UPS to construction to paralegal to loading hay onto semis. Shit sucks. That's why I turned partying into a job; because I'm helluva good at it and I didn't hate it.

I'm still not where I want to be exactly, but all of my time is spent on developing location independent income with no real boss. It's taking time, but progress is being made.

I could never do a 9-5 again, especially after seeing the 'light'.

[speakeasy]

If you have their required tech skills, craiglist seems like a generous place to work by American standards:

Quote:

In addition to competitive cash compensation, craigslist provides the following benefits:

craigslist pays 100% of employee's (and any eligible dependent's) health and dental insurance;
craigslist pays 100% of employee's covered out-of-pocket healthcare expenses ($3K, $5K or $7K annually, depending on # of eligible dependents);
401(k) matching program (up to 6% of employee's salary), with immediate vesting;
3-to-1 match on employee's charitable donations (up to 10% of an employee's salary);
life insurance;
short and long term disability insurance;
employee assistance program;
4 weeks of paid time off annually;
8-10 paid holidays;
monthly transportation stipend;
monthly wellness stipend;
monthly technology stipend for mobile phone and at-home Internet (tech staff only);
breakfast, lunch, fresh fruit, and healthy snacks daily;
weekly in-office yoga;
in-office bicycle parking;
coffeebot 9000!

[cardguy]

I live in the UK. It is the norm over here to get a fair bit of holiday (I get about 32 days and about 6 bank holidays). And we have the NHS - so I don't have to worry about medical expenses.

I feel sorry for you guys in America - it is such a relief not having to worry about medical expenses. And I work for the government - so I get a 'death in serivce' benefit - and I get a pretty good pension.

I am only mentioning this since I feel you guys in America have it tough. It seems a shame that people have to raise alot of money to pay for operations. Or are too scared to leave their jobs because they are worried about losing their medical insurance.