[el mechanico]

(08-26-2013 01:48 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Am I the only one that's considering kids for egoistic reasons, and not all the fluffy stuff?

What does that mean?

[Ensam]

(08-26-2013 01:48 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Am I the only one that's considering kids for egoistic reasons, and not all the fluffy stuff?

Nope. This is a large part of the reason I want them as well. There are things I want to accomplish that I will be unlikely to finish in my lifetime. If I'm fortunate hopefully one of my progenie will follow in my footsteps.

[pointbreak]

Company, love and care in old age, especially if you have daughters.

[worldwidetraveler]

(08-26-2013 01:42 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

I am married, my wife is traditional and submissive and has that biological Ukrainian thing for children. She likes children but in her own words 'she would be afraid to have children today' .

I swear, a Ukraine woman passing on kids is like finding a unicorn. hah

As for legacy, there are other ways to leave a legacy besides kids.

[rudebwoy]

The desire to want a family will become stronger as you get older.
Passing on your gene's is a normal biological process, like most I see myself having a kid.
I don't want to be a lone wolf forever, my thirst for going out to social scene's is dwindling.
Alot of guy's keep talking about pre-nup, how safe is it really once you are in front of a judge.

[Samseau]

(08-23-2013 02:59 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 02:44 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 08:59 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

My advice for you guys that want kids is to have one kid with whoever to get the ball rolling. Having the kid is a lot harder than finding the wife/ltr so get moving on that first.

How are you supposed to keep custody if you do that?

How are you supposed to keep custody when your wife throws you out of the house?

Good Lawyer.

It all ends up the same.

Here's a question..What do all the girls you've dated have in common?

Answer: You're not with them anymore.

Have some balls and roll the dice.

No offense man, but I hate gambling. I think I would rather try and get my future wife into signing over primary custody of the kids to me upon birth in exchange for me marrying her.

[jimukr104]

(08-26-2013 04:23 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 01:42 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

I am married, my wife is traditional and submissive and has that biological Ukrainian thing for children. She likes children but in her own words 'she would be afraid to have children today' .

I swear, a Ukraine woman passing on kids is like finding a unicorn. hah

As for legacy, there are other ways to leave a legacy besides kids.

LOL.... yeah will saves me a bundle and guarantees NO divorce. I have always notice the stress of children actually causes more divorces than anything else. What happens is spouses go into MOTHER role and they forget how to be a wife. Many guys complain about this.
As for kids taking care of you in old age..haha..good luck.NOT in USA. Daughters are always more easy to manipulate but today's economy most likely they will live 2k miles away.We are born alone and die alone.

"Nope. This is a large part of the reason I want them as well. There are things I want to accomplish that I will be unlikely to finish in my lifetime. If I'm fortunate hopefully one of my progenie will follow in my footsteps."

Didn't know you were building a time machine! If the Zombies come I guess a few kids who can shoot and spit will come in handy.

[el mechanico]

Samseau. My point is not to waste time for older guys. What you stated is probably impossible and you would look crazy for presenting it.. At that point the girls family would all fight you and expend resources. That's why I say roll em..

[el mechanico]

(08-26-2013 08:07 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 04:23 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 01:42 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

I am married, my wife is traditional and submissive and has that biological Ukrainian thing for children. She likes children but in her own words 'she would be afraid to have children today' .

I swear, a Ukraine woman passing on kids is like finding a unicorn. hah

As for legacy, there are other ways to leave a legacy besides kids.

LOL.... yeah will saves me a bundle and guarantees NO divorce. I have always notice the stress of children actually causes more divorces than anything else. What happens is spouses go into MOTHER role and they forget how to be a wife. Many guys complain about this.
As for kids taking care of you in old age..haha..good luck.NOT in USA. Daughters are always more easy to manipulate but today's economy most likely they will live 2k miles away.We are born alone and die alone.

"Nope. This is a large part of the reason I want them as well. There are things I want to accomplish that I will be unlikely to finish in my lifetime. If I'm fortunate hopefully one of my progenie will follow in my footsteps."

Didn't know you were building a time machine! If the Zombies come I guess a few kids who can shoot and spit will come in handy.

This post is pathetic. Jim, I hope you and your lovely wife enjoy all your birthdays in your golden years together and romance each other knowing how much cash you saved by not wasting time with ungrateful kids.

[attachment=14130]

[worldwidetraveler]

^^Why is Ali sitting in the hot tub with Jim and his wife?

[paninaro]

My take on it is this: The kids we produce have a much better chance of doing something good in the world than most kids. First, the kid will be planned and wanted, which puts the kid ahead of some huge % of kids out there. Second, if you're on this board, you're at least decently intelligent and thinking about life from a broader perspective (i.e. not a clock puncher). So there's a decent chance you have good genes to pass on.

From that perspective, it's almost your duty to reproduce, so your progeny can increase the overall ratio of good kids to bad ones.

[The Beast1]

(08-26-2013 01:48 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

Am I the only one that's considering kids for egoistic reasons, and not all the fluffy stuff?

Not at all Vicious, that's the entire reason why I want kids.

I'm so awesome that it's my god given right to plant that seed in women and see it through.

And I'm guessing that you think you're so awesome that you want to see your genes move to another generation.

Having children is the ultimate form of narcissism!

[jimukr104]

(08-26-2013 09:15 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 08:07 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 04:23 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 01:42 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

I am married, my wife is traditional and submissive and has that biological Ukrainian thing for children. She likes children but in her own words 'she would be afraid to have children today' .

I swear, a Ukraine woman passing on kids is like finding a unicorn. hah

As for legacy, there are other ways to leave a legacy besides kids.

LOL.... yeah will saves me a bundle and guarantees NO divorce. I have always notice the stress of children actually causes more divorces than anything else. What happens is spouses go into MOTHER role and they forget how to be a wife. Many guys complain about this.
As for kids taking care of you in old age..haha..good luck.NOT in USA. Daughters are always more easy to manipulate but today's economy most likely they will live 2k miles away.We are born alone and die alone.

"Nope. This is a large part of the reason I want them as well. There are things I want to accomplish that I will be unlikely to finish in my lifetime. If I'm fortunate hopefully one of my progenie will follow in my footsteps."

Didn't know you were building a time machine! If the Zombies come I guess a few kids who can shoot and spit will come in handy.

This post is pathetic. Jim, I hope you and your lovely wife enjoy all your birthdays in your golden years together and romance each other knowing how much cash you saved by not wasting time with ungrateful kids.

Pathetic how? Explain...I mentioned a known fact.I got married for love...not to use her as a baby factory but MANY leading therapists even admit that the stress of raising children actually causes the rift. But aren't you divorce??? Why don't you clue us in of the difficulties involved, including raising children so we can be better informed.
You have to remember you have children and love them so you are going to be naturally BIASED , we expect that. Of course you love your kids..but if you didn't have them..it be ignorance is bliss.I also believe you are Mexican, which has a different view of children and child raising than Americans(or maybe your not Hispanic, who knows).
Believe it or not childless couples who have pets report the same level of satisfaction. Many school teachers also refrain from having children because they get the satisfaction from helping other children and don't WANT any more. Some are scared off too.
Its NOT your right to judge someones else opinion of how they see the joys of fatherhood.You should be happy more job opportunities for your kids right? The same way it isn't our right to judge your blatant pass of disobeying of civil law and authority (joking ).
If you haven't noticed this thread is almost 50%(60-40?) split on the subject so it isn't so cut and dry.Besides I know we can count on you to give us needed birthday gifts in our golden years, since we can't live without them and all.
@Worldwidetraveller... Don't lie that isn't Ali. Its you toasting how other peoples kids are paying your Social Security checks.We are discussing if 'champagne Game' works in Odessa and if your SS check can support that level of game.

@sAMSAM...Did you hear in our troubled times they are thinking of giving free diapers out, another social program we can really afford? Come to think about it I have supported dozens of children with my taxes...hope they send me a birthday card one day

[samsamsam]

I wonder if some of our desire or lack of desire to want to have kids is based on our own experiences. If you had a good childhood then you are more inclined to, if not maybe you don't want kids. I am not passing any judgement on anyone's desires for kids or not - just wondering if there would be some correlation.

Also, maybe people know in their hearts if they would or would not be good parents. Which is actually good. I mean why bring a kid into the world if you don't want to be a parent?

I get we need to at least maintain or grow our population but bringing a bunch of poorly raised kids into the world isn't necessarily good for society either. Yes, it might create consumers (but if they are dumb they won't be earning a lot to consumer a lot - if anything they add to the drain on social services.)

[worldwidetraveler]

(08-27-2013 12:57 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I wonder if some of our desire or lack of desire to want to have kids is based on our own experiences. If you had a good childhood then you are more inclined to, if not maybe you don't want kids. I am not passing any judgement on anyone's desires for kids or not - just wondering if there would be some correlation.

Also, maybe people know in their hearts if they would or would not be good parents. Which is actually good. I mean why bring a kid into the world if you don't want to be a parent?

I get we need to at least maintain or grow our population but bringing a bunch of poorly raised kids into the world isn't necessarily good for society either. Yes, it might create consumers (but if they are dumb they won't be earning a lot to consumer a lot - if anything they add to the drain on social services.)

For me, it is more of a matter of not caring one way or the other. If it happened, I would be happy. If it didn't happen, I would be happy.

I am not going out of my way to make it happen nor am I planning for a family. Life has a way to change plans made and I find it easier to not worry about those types of things I can't control. I am El Mech's age and that means I am pretty set in my ways.

Having a kid would be fine with me but I don't really want another wife. I tried the marriage thing and didn't like it at all.

I am not interested in passing on a legacy or anything like that. I want to take everything with me when I die. hah

[worldwidetraveler]

(08-27-2013 12:29 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

@Worldwidetraveller... Don't lie that isn't Ali. Its you toasting how other peoples kids are paying your Social Security checks.We are discussing if 'champagne Game' works in Odessa and if your SS check can support that level of game.

At that age, I will have to start hitting the Philippines. haha

[mistermister]

as a few of have eluded too. as you get older you desire it more. talk to me in my 20s and it was no f--king way now just in my early 30s i'm feeling a little something something. i can only imagine were i'm going to be at in my late 30s. it's natural to have the desire. i'm truly okay with it.

bottom line is the marriage, wife and mother situation scare the sh!t out of me. i don't think with my lifestyle as a business owner I could do it on my own. the other thing that is apparent is after a notch count over 50. the whole night life game style is becoming less and less enjoyable.

would love to hear thoughts from guys in a similar boat or who've been here before... i've taken too much of the red pill to think it will all love and a baby carriage. i want to find a situation that works. maximize the upside and protect the downside. that's how i approach business that's how i want to approach a family. people tell me that's impossible. then that's a deal i'm willing to walk away from.

[aphelion]

(08-23-2013 04:46 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 03:35 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

I feel this too...I've been with enough girls to realize they're all just walking vaginas. I don't give a fuck about feelings anymore, maybe I'm jaded. I'm more interested in the qualities that the vagina host has as far as wife/mother material goes. I care more about someone that gives me backrubs and keeps the floors clean than "having a connection". Hence my insistence on foreign, in my case asian.

When you have a girl who wants nothing more than to make it happy, your "love instincts" as a man gets triggered.

Think about how much men love dogs. Men love dogs because the dog puts the man before itself.

But that triggers something within the man that makes him want to elevate the dog's interest.

We live in such a sick culture that it's hard for us to understand. We have to look out for #1 because women will fuck us over otherwise.

But that is not the natural condition of a man.

In relationships, men are naturally softies.

Hell, how many of us screwed up relationships because we were too soft with these crazy women?

I was unbelievably nice to my ex-wife and she punished me for it. Then I was a tyrant and she rewarded it.

That's when I decided that being an asshole who is on his game 24/7 isn't worth it.

Find a feminine woman who wants to serve and the better parts of your personality will come out again.

[iknowexactly]

The interesting thing about child rearing is that it is one of those decisions where you can't really try both sides. Once you've had kids (I don't) you can never go back to being someone that doesn't have kids.

If you don't have kids, you can only speculate about the deep existential issues of what it's like once you have them.

I think it's interesting that for anyone that exists, it's because of 3.5 billion years of history of who knows how many generations of animals, protozoa, and reptiles that reproduced without ONE SINGLE GENERATION SKIPPING.

Thus it is beyond lottery level odds that we exist at all.

Let's postulate the average life span of your ancestors all the way to the beginning of life was 100 days ( who knows, it would take a specialized biologist to even guess. A fly only lives about 10 days.) And the average time between generations was 50 days.

Then divide 3.5 billion years, Roughly a trillion days, by that. 1,000,000,000,000 / 50 = 20 billion generations.

Your existence is the result of winning a series of 20 Billion consecutive coin tosses. Worse than that, twenty billion successive searches for a mate, reproduction with that mate, and then successful reproduction of that offspring.

===

So one can assume the urge to reproduce is probably pretty strong, probably embedded in our consciousness so pervasively that you are thinking about it even when you think you're not. Debating it intellectually is probably sort of looking for the horse while you are riding it.

=====


I second the Philippines but I haven't been there yet. I might try Siberia first but I may be too old.

The thing I can't deal with is ever going back to work full time. All those years of being tired and not knowing I was tired. That two weeks- two weeks!!-- of
yearly vacation is barely enough for you to even realize how tired you are.

The last five years I've worked half time or less I've enjoyed producing more of interest in terms of writing, composing and producing than I did in the twenty prior years before that, during which I was working toward partial financial independence.

Here's a little chart I wrote called "true free time calculator.
Working part time frees you much more than you think, because non-work days include the time needed to recover from work ( I mean work for someone else's goals) before you actually have any free productive time for your own goals.




Sorry, no private schools, Mercedes, mid-level house in America. I view women now as primarily sex objects and producers of children. The idea of being totally dedicated to one sounds insane, although symbiosis makes sense as an alliance as long as her actions indicate she is dedicated to me. If she doesn't like my rules, she can stay in the Phillipines or Siberia. Alone, without courts enforcing my servitude to her.

[iknowexactly]

(08-26-2013 07:01 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

No offense man, but I hate gambling. I think I would rather try and get my future wife into signing over primary custody of the kids to me upon birth in exchange for me marrying her.

I don't think contracts of this kind are typically enforceable in the US, although the woman may not take you to court to contest it. Courts base their decisions on what in their feminist opinion is best for the kids, I believe.

[iknowexactly]

Mozart thought "a bachelor is only half alive." (From his letters.)

Freud thought, and I think this is one of the most important thing to understand before judging women's flightiness and manipulativeness, "Man's primary love object is woman, and woman's primary love object is children."

Once she pops out the kid, you are now like a couch with a wallet between the cushions. Potentially comforting, but significant only in your utility. The kid is her heritage, you're just an accessory. The kid(s) is/are all that's going to be left of you, too, unless you're a successful writer, inventor, etc.

[jimukr104]

(08-28-2013 12:14 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Mozart thought "a bachelor is only half alive." (From his letters.)

Freud thought, and I think this is one of the most important thing to understand before judging women's flightiness and manipulativeness, "Man's primary love object is woman, and woman's primary love object is children."

Once she pops out the kid, you are now like a couch with a wallet between the cushions. Potentially comforting, but significant only in your utility. The kid is her heritage, you're just an accessory. The kid(s) is/are all that's going to be left of you, too, unless you're a successful writer, inventor, etc.

Agreed....Interestingly we are part of the animal kingdom, most Animal species the male has NOTHING to do with the children once they are born.I partly think the whole PUMP and Dump mentality stems from this biological urge. Lets be honest..most of us know or heard of a guy who ran out on the children(common in the 3rd world),wanted the girl to get an abortion, or is what we would call a Distant father. I think its in our DNA to spread our seed , but the whole parenting thing is a society/cultural invention.But Man HAS A GREAT CAPACITY to be attached and since men often wear thier hearts on thier sleeves men are actually MORE likely to think of the long term welfare of the child than the mother. Men will often work long hours to take care of thier families while the women will often do the BARE minimum. So in a way men make better role models than women do.

[Barron]

Re-awakening this thread as I find it quite relevant for me at this point in my life.

What we're discussing here is being compelled by nature, be it by a woman or our own biological drive, to have children with a woman of our choosing. What's funny is that I was with a gorgeous blonde Swedish girl for 6 years. We had amazing sex but I never felt any kind of desire to have children with her. She was insecure and controlling and I always feared for her kids, should she ever have any, that she would be a shitty mother. All this being said, I still ransacked that shit for 6 years until it ended.

Then I went to Ukraine last summer, met what I consider a 10 from a small town, and for the first time in my life had that amazing biological urge to impregnate a female. It had been 2 years since my breakup with the Swedish chick and my libido was at an all time low. Within the first day together she not only re-ignited my sex drive, but she somehow made me feel more like a man than I had ever felt with the Swedish girl in all of those 6 years (respect and admiration for men?). God knows I took no precautions while we were together, and neither did she. I think we both had the same feeling of "if it happens it happens" but in hindsight it's probably a good thing that I didn't succeed.

The fact is that as American men we must EARN the ability to have a proper family:
It is up to us alone to find the right woman, to acquire the financial resources needed, and to live in the ideal place to make come to fruition.

I have come to the conclusion that if I stay in the US I will never marry, and never have a family of my own and this depresses the fuck out of me; fueling my contempt for American society. I know that AWALT, and even if I could bring a girl like the Ukrainian here it would most certainly blow up in my face. I am now driven by my desire for a family - on my terms - to leave the US and start a life where I can make it happen. This is my single driving-force in life at the moment, and anything I achieve will be directed towards creating the family I want with the woman of my choice. This has been excellent motivation for me to hit the gym, finish university, save enough cash to start up as in English instructor abroad, and conclude my life here in the states in preparation for moving to eastern Europe (I graduate next spring so hopefully by end of next year I will be gone).

Yes it sucks that I can't have it here, but I consider it a test of character, a rite-of-passage so to speak:
If I can move abroad, learn the language, integrate into a new culture, and become financially secure, I have earned the right to have the family I want to have (at least 3 children). It's like get rich or die tryin, I will either achieve my dream of having the family I want or die trying.

ps - Fuck this place.

[Constitution45]

Wow man, really this post hits a strong note with me, I still have many years left, but I do have a strong desire to raise a family, only after I went to EE and China.

You are talking about a natural lifestyle here, its really hard to articulate but with these foreign women you do get this womanly vibe from them which makes you want to fall asleep, like after having a good meal. The interactions you have are nutritional and on top of that you know where you stand, there is a energy transfer going on. Although in the East you get a lot of women who want to nail you down for marriage. However I still can empathise with this form of female manipulation and game planning, if the end goal is for security and having children then it is constructive.

When I first met a properly traditional woman in the EE, it was like a completely new experience for me. Even before we started having sex just going out with her was far better than any of the one night stands, FB's I have had back in the U.K.
Even though she had her womanly faults, the occasional shit test and argument, all could be forgiven because there was this energy exchange going on that was like receiving sun light for the first time in my life. Having an attractive women who is nice and actually respects you as a man is not a hard ask, yet its like gold dust in the West. I strongly believe that if most men experienced this on a regular basis they wouldn't be using internet pornography or so thirsty for bangs.

To put it simply, a lot of Anglosphere women resent men. Most films and t.v shows, even adverts have to depict some anti male message, whether it is macho men having their heads lopped off by Kill Bill (good film btw) or being mocked and ridiculed in Broadband adverts by the smart sassy daughter and wife. On top of this a lot of them decide to hook up with random men throughout their younger years, making them bitter and eventually unable to love after a while. Which make them perfect targets for joining the feminist movement which simply turns female neuroticism and misandry into politicalised victim tokenism.

I have been around these hipster social circles and hear the women blaming all problems under the sun on male domination. Yet the men they are surrounded with are probably the weakest men to have ever existed in the HISTORY of planet earth. I just don't buy it. Eventually it comes to the point where they are despising men for being weak and thus being too easy to push around and manipulate.

A lot of men instinctively realise something is wrong, they want that femininity and the only way in which it is available is in the bedroom. As women on the outside bare no feminine traits aside from having longer hair and tits, some don't even have that. This perpetuates the cycle in the end of the day and it is fine if you have a strong mindset and are a player who has strong inner game. But to be frank most people just don't have it in them.

With this psychological mind Fuckery you can't raise a healthy loving family, let alone form a sustainable relationship.
The West is good for making money but finding anything of substance is very difficult, because the environment isn't intended for ideals and long term thinking. Its about comfort and pleasure.

I really advise that productive men in the Anglosphere boycott the women here and instead find women who have some virtue abroad and plant their legacy. It is sad but so many of these anglosphere women are so far gone that forming a relationship with them will be detrimental for you as a man.

Good luck to you, I have some friends based in the Ukraine so if you need any advice or questions to be asked, I can get you in touch with them.

[Dalaran1991]

Having a kid who carries on your legacy, respect you and think of you as a dad and all that shit is wishful thinking in this day and age I think. Especially considering that in 20 years present day EE and SEA will be just like US today. Hell it has already started.

Just look at yourself. Does each of you have that strong connection to your dad? Even then would you live on to carry on his wishes/legacy/traits and all that stuff? More likely they will be off fornicating with other women like we are now, if they are lucky

I d love to have children but raising them right will need a stable family, i.e meaning finding a faithful homely wife which is hard enough. Plus I dont know if I ll have the patience to go through all the trouble