[Constitution45]

(07-28-2014 05:22 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Having a kid who carries on your legacy, respect you and think of you as a dad and all that shit is wishful thinking in this day and age I think. Especially considering that in 20 years present day EE and SEA will be just like US today. Hell it has already started.

Just look at yourself. Does each of you have that strong connection to your dad? Even then would you live on to carry on his wishes/legacy/traits and all that stuff? More likely they will be off fornicating with other women like we are now, if they are lucky

I d love to have children but raising them right will need a stable family, i.e meaning finding a faithful homely wife which is hard enough. Plus I dont know if I ll have the patience to go through all the trouble

I really hope that they don't turn like the U.S, I think our generation may be able to just get in there before it closes up. But the next generation are well and truly fucked if that the case.

[Barron]

(07-28-2014 04:53 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

The West is good for making money but finding anything of substance is very difficult, because the environment isn't intended for ideals and long term thinking. Its about comfort and pleasure.

I really advise that productive men in the Anglosphere boycott the women here and instead find women who have some virtue abroad and plant their legacy. It is sad but so many of these anglosphere women are so far gone that forming a relationship with them will be detrimental for you as a man.

I completely agree about the West being good for making money, and that is all. Unfortunately even that seems to be in jeopardy. People with half a brain can make good money here. These people will never suffer financially, ever. And unless another stock market crash comes, they will never have to face up to the inconsequentiality of their life's choices.

However I do believe that more and more individuals will begin to lose their shit psychologically. As time goes on more men will awaken to a growing dissatisfaction with life, only problem is that they will have never developed the mental faculties to be competent in going about identifying the problem.

This means more hate crimes, more random gunmen/bombers killing innocent civilians, greater single-motherhood, greater cultural decline, ever more government growth fueling reliance on the state; seizing more tax dollars to support an abundantly growing lower class, the list goes on. Considering this alone, I would have to leave just based on principle of not wanting to perpetuate the system.

(07-28-2014 04:53 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  

Good luck to you, I have some friends based in the Ukraine so if you need any advice or questions to be asked, I can get you in touch with them.

Appreciate it

[el mechanico]

Umm.. You guys are getting a little overboard here again.

[Constitution45]

It raises a lot of different questions, on the outcomes of this unnatural lifestyle. Technology in the future will undoubtedly offer ways to delay the effects of the causes being made. However I believe other emerging economies and their governments, may see fit to cut out this perversion of our culture. Who knows, a lot of different factors come into play.

I think though for the time being we do have a lot of ways out. I used to have a friend of mine from the U.K, he was a skinny tall guy, very socially awkward, held liberal feminist views and altogether was extremely unhappy with life.
Fortunately he started nofap, martial arts, weight lifting and began looking into what it meant to be a man, especially the culture that had saturated every fibre of his being.

Six months later and he has improved massively, really I was shocked and everyone else has commented on this. He is moving out of his family's house, started a job that he enjoys, is currently dating a model. On top of this he actually fought off a robber the other day. Once he focused on his inner game and resolved some issues that had been plaguing him, he has come to the stage, where he is realising that its not him at fault but society for a lot of complaints that arose.

Im all for changing your environment by self improvement and make situations and circumstances bend over to you. However sometimes you just have to say "fuck it" go somewhere that is more suited for you.

But yes back to the point originally made, such a lack of balance is really doing a lot of psychological damage. Just enjoy the show.

[Bushido]

It's funny because after reading Manosphere sites and wising up you'd think we would be immune to this. But nature is nature. When you date an especially feminine girl, these desires can rise up out of nowhere.

My current LTR is such a sweet girl that I find myself daydreaming about having kids with her. Funny thing is, I'm usually a pretty shallow guy with regards to looks and she's not even that hot. Just cute, innocent and submissive. I also took her virginity. It's enough to put quite the trance on a man. Then again, this is Asia so these qualities are a given I suppose.

[Cobra]

I just sat in family court watching my sister go through a child custody and divorce proceeding against who WAS my IRT brother-in-law. More on that later but..

I came back to my parents where she now lives with her son, my nephew. I feel sorry for the kid because he has no father figure AT ALL. He exhibits certain behaviors already at the age of 2 that my parents (his grandparents) have a hard time controlling. I wish I could do more.

What makes my emotions about this rise to another level is that my 3 kids have so much more in the sense of motherly love, and fatherly discipline (from yours truly) as well as various other family that have helped their mental development in a way that has turned them out to be amazing kids. I am truly blessed and my family is my highest priority.

Say what you will about marriage but the kids need a mother AND father ON TOP of some type of social interaction with other socially normal people. If some or all of this is missing, you can expect a long and bumpy ass road ahead for your kids.

[Isaac Jordan]

At this point, the main reason I'd like a family someday is to have a purpose in life. While most here would probably agree that chasing tail, earning money, learning new skills, and generally bettering yourself are all great ways to pass the time, they don't really lend themselves to an all-encompassing life purpose.

Last time I checked, the average male lifespan (in the U.S.) stood at 74. With future medical advances and a lifetime of weight lifting, paleo eating, and other good habits, I see no reason why I couldn't live to 90+.

Even if it takes me half my life to accomplish my current goals (geographic and financial independence, fluency in several languages, 100 notches, etc), that's still 4 decades of time with which I'll need to find something to do-something that will motivate me, keep me energized, and give me strength through the inevitable hard times.

Being able to prevent my future sons from making the same mistakes I made; passing on to them a lifetime of red-pill type knowledge; helping my daughters to understand their animal nature and assisting them in finding good men with which to raise their own children; creating my own traditions and legacies; these are all things which, to me at least, sound like a much better way to spend my 60s, 70s, and 80s, than anything I'd be doing as a bachelor.

And to those who worry about the legal and financial downsides, all I can say is, plan ahead. I'm in my mid 20s right now, and assuming my value as a mate will peak in my late 30s, I'm looking at starting a family around 40. That gives me over a decade to hone my game and learn things like:

-how to find a good woman
-how to bond her to me and keep her attracted
-how to deal with her friends and family
-how to hide my current assets or structure my business so as to prepare for a future divorce/worst case scenario

Yeah, things are tough out there. It's a crazy world we live in, and it seems like the U.S. is exporting more crazy every day. But if you plan ahead and treat your current gaming as practice for the future, by the time that future arrives you'll hopefully be experienced enough to handle it.

[zaqan]

I dont understand the predominant, albeit not universal, opposition to family in the manosphere. Fundamentally, what is the point of life if you dont leave any mark? Who the hell is going to care for you when you cant walk? All the griping about divorce and everything is overblown. The divorce rate is not 50%, I think I read its around 10-20% of all marriages, and many of those are repeat offenders.

Just look at the stats of how many sexual partners a woman has and the likelihood of divorce. For virgins, its under 20%. After 2 partners, its 50%. So marry a virgin, just like every religion suggests (thousands of years of trial and error might have something to it).

[Jaydublin]

I'm about to turn 29 and I am starting to consider kids. I am starting to become lonely and lose pleasure in a lot of the things I enjoyed in my teens and 20s and I think I would really enjoy showing those things to somebody else. What started all this was a couple of crazy girls claiming they had my baby(roughly the same time), I'm 0-2 on DNA tests but after thinking for sure that 1 was mine it sort of opened my mind to having kids and what a great experience it can be.

What I am not thrilled with is a wife. Though I am not like a lot of this forum in that they think the girl needs to be an absolute knockout to marry. As long as she is decent looking, has good genes, femine, and can be sexy then I can be satisfied with her looks. Personality and ability to raise my children is much more important than what she looks like in her prime.

[Jaydublin]

(07-29-2014 07:37 PM)zaqan Wrote:  

I dont understand the predominant, albeit not universal, opposition to family in the manosphere. Fundamentally, what is the point of life if you dont leave any mark? Who the hell is going to care for you when you cant walk? All the griping about divorce and everything is overblown. The divorce rate is not 50%, I think I read its around 10-20% of all marriages, and many of those are repeat offenders.

Just look at the stats of how many sexual partners a woman has and the likelihood of divorce. For virgins, its under 20%. After 2 partners, its 50%. So marry a virgin, just like every religion suggests (thousands of years of trial and error might have something to it).

Your stats seem a little off... can you back them up? I am damn sure that well over 10% of marriages fail.

I would also like to know where I can find all these virgins in 2014.

[Rubio93]

If you want an LTR of ANY sort

1) Avoid churches like the plague. I worked in the past over 15 years as music director of churches of VARIOUS xtian denominations. Church girls are worse than bar sluts.

2) Avoid Colombia. This place is Sodom and Gomorrah with a little sugar-coating on top. Which is exactly why I'm here >

[Cobra]

Let's be honest here. I'm guessing that there are only a few people on the forum that have families.

Even fewer that are still married and have the traditional family set up.

We don't post as much about our situation primarily because the manosphere on its surface appears fairly averse to it, or at least unfocused on its positives while highlighting its many, albeit real, negatives.

I won't lie, this is also a function of most of us being from the western world where the women are less feminine, therefore amplifying the negative press that shows up in print here.

Of course, in addition to that, it's also just a product of our makeup which mostly consists of young guys that may have had LTRs but generally haven't expanded them to transition into "family."

I mean I sincerely appreciate each side's view points but what we have is a lack of balance since you predominantly hear one side.

[Dantes]

(07-29-2014 07:37 PM)zaqan Wrote:  

I dont understand the predominant, albeit not universal, opposition to family in the manosphere. Fundamentally, what is the point of life if you dont leave any mark? Who the hell is going to care for you when you cant walk? All the griping about divorce and everything is overblown. The divorce rate is not 50%, I think I read its around 10-20% of all marriages, and many of those are repeat offenders.

Just look at the stats of how many sexual partners a woman has and the likelihood of divorce. For virgins, its under 20%. After 2 partners, its 50%. So marry a virgin, just like every religion suggests (thousands of years of trial and error might have something to it).

Devering meaning in one's life is not the same for everyone. Men derive meaning and purpose from different pursuits. For one man it could be spiritual enlightenment for another it could be being a father. But to say a man's life is meaningless if he doesn't procreate is something I disagree with. There are other pursuits that are just as meaningful, noble and rewarding, albeit different.

Another point...I spent a lot of time with my grandmother in her nursing home. I got to know the other old folks. I met several who had these big families.....had pictures of the perfect happy families. Many of these kids barely came to see their aging mother of father. There are no guarantees in life. Having kids doesn't guarantee they will take care of you when you can't walk or wipe your ass anymore. The only person you can rely on is yourself.

[Rubio93]

Hell, Nietszche died a virgin didn't he?

[Beyond Borders]

(08-27-2013 12:57 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I wonder if some of our desire or lack of desire to want to have kids is based on our own experiences. If you had a good childhood then you are more inclined to, if not maybe you don't want kids. I am not passing any judgement on anyone's desires for kids or not - just wondering if there would be some correlation

Personally, whenever I desire being a parent it's because I want to to give someone a better childhood than I had. Kind of a weird reason, given that we're talking about a person who doesn't yet exist.

But my point is that it can go both ways.

I always say I'm waiting until about 40. But I often think about rolling the dice, like El Mech said, and just knocking some bird up for the fuck of it. As you can imagine, it wouldn't be hard to find a taker in Asia. Girls say they want to have your baby all the time.

[zaqan]

(07-29-2014 08:53 PM)Jaydublin Wrote:  

(07-29-2014 07:37 PM)zaqan Wrote:  

I dont understand the predominant, albeit not universal, opposition to family in the manosphere. Fundamentally, what is the point of life if you dont leave any mark? Who the hell is going to care for you when you cant walk? All the griping about divorce and everything is overblown. The divorce rate is not 50%, I think I read its around 10-20% of all marriages, and many of those are repeat offenders.

Just look at the stats of how many sexual partners a woman has and the likelihood of divorce. For virgins, its under 20%. After 2 partners, its 50%. So marry a virgin, just like every religion suggests (thousands of years of trial and error might have something to it).

Your stats seem a little off... can you back them up? I am damn sure that well over 10% of marriages fail.

I would also like to know where I can find all these virgins in 2014.

Unfortunately, there arent many conclusive studies and the range varies a lot depending on your definitions. But what is certain is that 50% is highly misleading and wrong.

[thirty-six]

This thread makes me think of what Cristiano Ronaldo did. I don't think too many guys have that option, though.

[Dalaran1991]

Dont you guys think modern society has made it terribly unnatural to have children nowadays?

The very idea of having children is to 1) spread your gene, but as humans we really dont care much about that tbh 2) having someone to continue your legacy, but good luck asking your son to take up your trade if he decides to go tranny and do ballet dancing and other gay shit 3) to have someone to take care of you, but we know that with modern society its almost a fantasy nowadays.

Im from Vietnam, a very confucian country and still everyday we hear talk about sons chasing parents away from home, people killing their grandparents over a bit of $ etc. Having a child is a huge emotional and financial investment that you can NOT back away from, and doesnt guarantee any return. You risk wasting 18 years paying your kid and shit, just for he/she to flies away just like any other stranger. Might sound dramatic but its happening right now. Maybe you start off very well but then they hit puberty and decide to do stuff that kids do and never come back or some shit.

Its sad that we have come to this point when procreation itself becomes unnatural and irrational.

[Rigsby]

(08-22-2013 03:30 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

Speaking blasphemy here, but I'm curious what all of your takes on it is.

It's not blasphemy brother.

Men get those urges and shit too. Women ain't the only ones. Men are human beings too. We are also biologically programmed.

I get broody now and again. I think, why the fuck couldn't I find a decent spouse to look after my kids. I don't even have any kids. Such is the force.

My brothers in arms can say it so much better than me. It's funny - I don't even know them, but they will be good men. Not the kind of Men to wear those hold me close to the chest nappy things. I hope.

[Edelweiss]

Some of the comments here are childish.

1- You can have kids without getting married. No prenup no shit. Marriage is a useless. Child custody on the other hand is problematic. That's why you got to find a woman who can raise your child with dignity if need be ie she gets to keep the kid.

2- Children to help us in old age: those who say kids wont give a shit when you're old are mistaken: you reap what you sow. I can NEVER imagine abandoning my parents because they are the primary reason why I live ie not thinking of THEMSELVES only but actually bringing me to life, but also giving me the best chance to succeed in whatever I do. It goes both ways and I need to take care of them when they NEED me now.
Those who say they never visit their parents: of course you think your kids won't take care of you. Start by improving this first by being better yourselves and your kids will follow you. Isn't self-improvement the essence of manosphere ?

3- Leaving a legacy: it's debatable.

4- Waiting til you're 40: Amen to that. Most of the NO KIDS party here are probably 30 and younger. I understand that. Im 30 myself and HATE kids, the noise, the commitment. I want to travel, pursue my business and all the yada yada. But at 40, you've been here, done that, you'd want to have a kid or two, make them the best possible human beings and at 65, have a whskey with you your son and talk about life. What the hell will you do at 60 that you haven't already done ? Money ? Bang chicks ? Travel ? You've done it and STILL can do it, heck do it with you son !

5- Overpopulated world, zombie attack, Earth resources...That's a pile of shit if that's your excuse. Don't listen to the media. Western population is actually in decline. You're not gonna have 6 kids. 1 or 2 maybe 3 if you LOVE kids. I know I don't but I'd LOVE to have 1 or 2.

Never say never You don't know what the future holds for you. But I guarantee you that by the time you hit 40, you'd want a kid. I hope that with your experience then you'll know which woman can be a GOOD mother. Whether you stay her is different, even if you don't have the custody, you can still be present as a father.
Bettering ourselves is the most important unless the time comes to teach young ones what we learned and keep improving.

[The Beast1]

I'm starting to feel more and more inclined to just wait until my 30s and marry a younger woman. I hang around really devote Christians and nothing stirs up little Christian girls than a well to do 30 year old guy who is single.

All of the girls my age are starting to look beat whereas I keep getting better looking. I personally am not sure I'd be comfortable wifing up a girl my age just to watch her decline in looks.

[Rigsby]

(08-22-2013 04:52 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

Some true shit...

Just bumped you up to fifty on the likes.

You hit a few nails on the head there. I must admit when I posted before I was reacting to the OP, but I've just taken the time to read the thread. Glad I did.

You have great qualities. You have deep insight and are unashamedly erudite. I bet that Asian lady or whatever is proud to cook your tasty dinner for you, and considers herself a lucky woman if she has any brain cells at all.

[iknowexactly]

(08-22-2013 03:30 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

Speaking blasphemy here, but I'm curious what all of your takes on it is.

Part of what is driving me at work, in my love life, with other women, etc. is my desire to sire children (make a family). It just so happens that I also like women and they seem to be a key ingredient in making this happen. Seriously, when I flirt with a girl the thought of the chase and making her be the mother of my spawn drives me CRAZY (odd I know).

The only thing that's odd is someone thinking this is odd.

It's the most natural thing in the world. Literally.

The MOST NATURAL thing in all of existence.

It's the sole cause of your existence, and of 4 billion years of forebears without a generation skipped.

It is looking for the horse while you are riding it.

[iknowexactly]

(08-27-2013 08:03 PM)mistermister Wrote:  

as a few of have eluded too. as you get older you desire it more..... after a notch count over 50. the whole night life game style is becoming less and less enjoyable.
...that's how i want to approach a family. people tell me that's impossible.

Hearing high school dropouts grunt over Japanese drum machines at 120DB while witless girls who work as receptionists/part time drunks talk about clothes and apartments lost it's charm when I hit my late 30s.

There's no [useful] new information in that environment, I need new information to keep my life interesting.

[Virtus]

"Musings on a friend's 2-year anniversary"

Marriages are like a different language. You live in a house with a stranger. So does she. Neither one of you is the person the other dated.

She’s so different, you barely recognize her. You still love her. You always have. But you wonder what happened to the woman you fell in love with, and if she’s ever coming back. The woman she is today is a pale shadow of that woman. So snide, bitchy, disrespectful. She still has her good side, but for no reason at all, she seems so hell-bent on being self-destructive. On burning your marriage to the ground. What kind of person treats the people who love her most this way? It’s insanity. She’s insane.

She feels the same way. She loves you, but she’s not in love with you, and it’s your fault. She loved you so much for so long, but in her eyes, you never loved her back as much as she loved you. Sure, you went to work every day at a job you hate so that she never had to, and when you got home, even though you were exhausted and just wanted to sit on the couch, you helped get dinner ready, played with the kids, washed the dishes, and cleaned up around the house, because you love her. But two weeks ago was your 29-month anniversary, and you got her a card and some flowers even though 29 isn’t a multiple of 12 or 6 – in fact it’s a prime number – but you didn’t take her out and wine and dine her and make her feel special. And then you tried to have sex with her that night. In fact, the only time you ever want to touch her or express any interest in her is when you want sex!

Of course you want to have sex with her! You’re a heterosexual man with no physical or chemical abnormalities, and she’s your wife. And you’re not teenagers. You’re not interested in making out then going to bed with blue balls. Kissing just doesn’t do it for you. If you start touching your wife, you’re going to eventually want that to lead to sex. Sure, she’s not quite as hot as she was 29 months ago, but she gained that weight and those stretch-marks carrying your children. Those are war wounds. You love her more, not less, for sacrificing her body to do that for your family. Sure, she ought to lose the weight and try a little harder with her appearance, but she’s with the kids for much of the day, and you realize that. But the fact that you want to have sex with her is normal. Husbands are supposed to have sex with their wives, aren’t they? And wives are supposed to want to have sex with their husbands, right? If anything, she should be reassured that after all this time, you still desire her sexually. It makes no sense that she’s offended at the very notion of having sex with someone who loves her as much as you do, and who does so much for her.

She’s so angry all the time. Back when you two were dating, you used to try so hard. She wanted to have sex anyway, but the fact that you were willing to go to such great lengths to win her over made her feel good about herself. Like she meant something to you. Now you don’t do any of that. You’re so thoughtless. You just go through the motions. You don’t love her any more. She has to tell you to do every little thing around the house and practically beg for your help with something. You never take initiative and just do something that needs doing without being asked. It’s like a switch turned off the second she married you, and now she’s your mother. And she’s so tired from doing every single thing, and managing you to make sure you do everything right. She’s just so angry, and then you want sex when you’re so oblivious to how she feels? How distant you’ve been?

You feel the same way. It’s like a switch turned off the second you married her. Now you’re just her meal ticket. She used to dress up for your dates because she wanted to look good for you and wanted you to want her. She was playful, flirty, she smiled, she made interesting conversation, she wanted you to want her and made the effort. And the night always ended with sex. You could have dated that woman forever. You thought marrying her would be exactly that. You try to show her that you love her, but the last time you invited her to meet you at your office so the two of you could go out for lunch, she showed up in sweats, a T-shirt, and flip-flops, wither her hair in a 5-second ponytail, and wasn’t even wearing her wedding ring. Your coworkers were too polite to say anything, but she reflected poorly on you. They wonder if your marriage is okay, especially your female co-workers, because they know something you don’t: the way your wife dressed that day was your fault. You let your marriage get to that point, and she shows all the signs of a woman who’s just not trying any more, and you’re blind to it because you’re a man.

Now she’s confused. Her heart tells her she doesn’t love you any more, but her mind tells her to stay in it for the kids. But while you were at work yesterday and the kids were at school, she was sitting down watching The View, and what those very wise ladies said made a lot of sense! The kids would want her to be happy. No kid wants to be in a house where mom’s unhappy and just going through the motions. She needs to get out. For the kids! And for herself.

Something’s different about her. She’s smiling, making you dinner every night without complaining like she usually does, she’s dressing nicer again, she’s been hitting the gym with a vengeance while the kids are at school. She’s chatting amicably with you again. Those ladies at the neighborhood book club she’s been going to meet every Thursday night must be rubbing off on her. You’re starting to see shades of the woman she used to be coming back. Your sex life still sucks, but maybe that’s on the way back, too!