[The Beast1]

Speaking blasphemy here, but I'm curious what all of your takes on it is.

Part of what is driving me at work, in my love life, with other women, etc. is my desire to sire children (make a family). It just so happens that I also like women and they seem to be a key ingredient in making this happen. Seriously, when I flirt with a girl the thought of the chase and making her be the mother of my spawn drives me CRAZY (odd I know).

However, being through 3 divorces myself and understanding that AWALT you would think I want to avoid marriage and never touch it with a 25 foot pole.

That drive however is still super strong. I can't seem to break it, nor do i really want to! Roosh's post seems like a warning sign.

What sucks is, I can't seem to find any women in my social groups (educated, decent job) that want a kid. Seriously, I want a family of 4+. I was talking to my girl this morning about it and she mentioned she doesn't want any kid. Heck she'd be ok with 1. Honestly, that's pathetic and I hate to say it that comment has eliminated any long term prospect now with an expiration date.

Thankfully, I've found a small treasure trove of women who do fit what I want (church). I guess the point is, I'm bummed I found a women I decently like who has no desire for kids.

How do you guys reconcile that drive to watch the next generation grow up and take over the world? Heck how do you reconcile a LTR with a girl who doesn't want kids?

(I'm probably going to end it after I finish my self improvement binge of working out and saving money)

[samsamsam]

frenchie, great question. Sorry no answers on my part. Just came back from a trip and am asking myself what have I been doing with all my time, just working. Life is about relationships and a good one can bring joy. I'd like to have kids also but just can't see myself raising kids in the US. And though I want the "happily ever after," oftentimes when I think of a family I also think prenup/divorce/etc.

Sorry wasn't trying to hijack the thread. Just feel like you feel about wanting kids also.

frenchie would you be willing share about your divorces? This is the biggest thing that I see as an obstacle in me getting married (besides the obvious of finding someone who would want to marry me). From time to time I think about it and even worry about it but I am nowhere close to marriage. I don't want half of everything I have worked for to be taken.

[el mechanico]

What country are we talkin here?

[Parlay44]

You don't need a wife to have kids. Just saying.

[bacon]

Did I read you correctly that you have been divorced 3 times?

If your trying to go for the marriage and kids thing, its much easier to get going with foreign traditional women who either lives in the US already or it may require you to relocate to friendlier places.

Also I personally think more women want kids than men do so it shouldnt be to hard to find a woman who wants to do that with you.

[worldwidetraveler]

(08-22-2013 03:30 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

How do you guys reconcile that drive to watch the next generation grow up and take over the world?

Sounds like a bad reason to have kids. After a few generations, you will be forgotten anyway.

Do you really think any of us are that important where we need a legacy?

If it is just passing genes on, go to a sperm bank or knock up some foreign women. After 3 divorces, I would be hanging the towel up when it comes to marriage.

[Veloce]

tl;dr don't get married without a very solid game plan.

I wanted to write a post about this very topic. I don't mean to hijack the thread or turn the spotlight on myself. Hopefully in my post we can find some common ground and reach some conclusions.

As I've mentioned a few times in various posts, my maternal grandpa just died. It's had a lot of repercussions in my family.

I went to his house to see my uncles and aunt. I hadn't seen them since my mom's death about 5 years ago. It was bittersweet because what, we only see each other when someone dies? We did pick up right where we left off and my uncles are cool as shit. We had a blast, smoking weed in the backyard, talking shit and telling jokes. I felt like I was hanging out with the 19 year old versions of my uncles. (One of them grows pot and the other one was cruising around on his Harley all day)

It was incredibly sad though, because all of us realized we'd never go to that house again. That house has incredible history; my mom, her sister, and two brothers all grew up there. When I was too sick to go to school I'd go there and my grandparents would take care of me. We held every holiday there. My grandpa was a figurehead in the town when he first moved in; a big community man. There are so many chapters of history there and now we'll never go back to that house once it's sold. My uncles were showing me some great pictures; all the cars they'd worked on, their vacation camper they built, my grandpa's bronze 1970 El Dorado with white top and white interior, and the 1974 hydrant red version he traded it in for.

I wanted to be a part of it, and not just hear all these great stories. I missed out on an era, for sure, but also missed out on having that kind of upbringing. I grew up in a single parent household with a half sister I didn't get along with.

At the end of the day I drove back to L.A., thinking, "I've got to stop reminiscing about something I didn't even experience. This nostalgia is ridiculous. The reality is that my grandpa is gone, that house is gone, all those memories are ancient history. There's nothing to recapture. There's only more stories to create."

And against my better judgement, I decided right then and there: I want that. I want all of it. I want kids, like 3 of them. I want boys to carry on my name. As far as I know, I'm the last of my line. Fuck that shit.

The big variable in all of this, of course, is finding the woman. I talked to my gf about it. She wants kids, but said not out of wedlock. I told her I don't give a shit about marriage, that it's just a piece of paper to sign as long as I've got an ironclad prenup where she doesn't get shit. She was taken aback and I laid on the red pill pretty thick, telling her I wish marriage was this pure and romantic institution still but that modern women had fucked it all up, and now we had to talk about incentives and duties as if it were a contract. By the end of it she agreed to all of it, said she didn't even care about an engagement ring.

I need to get a few good "love tours" out of the way but I see this future coming up for me pretty soon fellas. I'd refer to you guys to the story of Knulp by Herman Hesse, which essentially portrays men of different walks; those with wanderlust who feel most true to themselves not bound by any person or thing in this world, and those who feel satisfaction is settling down with a home to call their own. If I'm really true to myself and being honest, I find myself leaning towards the latter (although with strong elements of the former). I can trace my feelings to my own lackluster upbringing, of feeling like I'd missed out on something, of not having a real family, and the way to fill that void is by creating it on my own.

Having been engaged, been "in love", been in several LTRs, many gfs, dating, you name it, I've come to these conclusions:

1. I don't believe in love, not in the American sense. I don't believe in soulmates. I believe in commonality between individuals that has nothing to do with "the one". We all find people we get along with and that's no different between lovers. I believe what people call "love", where you're obsessive, is an adverse condition resulting from lust mixed with emotional issues.

2. For LTRs, gfs, or god forbid, wives, go foreign. This should be self explanatory. If they've lived in the U.S. for more than a couple years, you will need to keep gaming them and enforcing patriarchal values, but they still have that foundation of nurturing and enhancing a man's life, not detracting or decreasing the quality of his life.

3. Set rules and expectations early on. Cooking, cleaning, sex, how she presents herself, her exercise regimen. I'm involved with all of these things and enforce them on a weekly basis. If there are any objections, present the alternative of her hitting the trail. Find a girl from a country whose cuisine you really enjoy. Seriously. Sex is sex, some of it's better than others but it's still just sex. Those little perks like a Vietnamese or Filipino girl cooking her national dishes take relationships to a whole other level.

4. Be willing to walk away from anything within 5 seconds.

5. Establish clear incentives. She is with you because you provide a solid future for her. She will be comfortable and taken care of, and so will your kids. She does NOT have any right to your assets though. YOU are in control of all assets and how those assets are spent. YOU are in the relationship because SHE is a responsible, thoughtful, and nurturing wife and mother. You both gain something from it. But at the end, it's understood that SHE is the one with a more time-sensitive shelf life and it is only to HER detriment that the relationship should end.

I haven't been married yet, but these are my ground rules going into it. I'm still a few years off but I'm going in packed with fucking nukes. I was just thinking about that old rhetoric I've heard about marriage and kids, "Well, you're never quite READY for it, you just decided on it or it happens and you dive in."

Fuck that, I'm way more ready for it now than I was even a year ago.

[samsamsam]

I am very sorry for your loss. A very good post thanks for writing it.

I always have had these three rules floating around in my head before I came to the realization that I should find a foreign bride.

1) Pre-nup
2) Middle class lifestyle regardless if we can live "better"
3) Nuclear option - if kids got out of line we would move to a third world shit hole and see if I could beat some gratitude into them.

Obviously, I have some issues if I am thinking of this shit with no gf in the picture. And ungrateful kids would be a reflection on my parenting ability. But those three rules always seemed to land on me.

[Samseau]

I also want kids someday. No doubt in my mind. I love children.

Dude3737 -

You're considering marrying your girlfriend, the same one you've broken up with 20 times? You may want to bring a wife back to the USA, still risky but probably the better option.

[MidniteSpecial]

I have kids. Make sure it's with a cool ass chick.

[MikeCF]

thedude, you can cook.

When I was in some small Costa Rica town (can't remember, but it was on the Caribbean side), I had the best truffles and coffee of my life.

It's not because, "OMG! Vacation! Everything is amazing!"

It's because the place was run by an Irish expat.

I then had amazing Italian food, run by an Italian woman.

The place I stayed at was owned by two Americans.

Are you reading between the lines yet?

If you can cook, you can get out of this place. Start your own business. Find investors.

Costa Rica is oversold but, "Panama is the next Costa Rica."

You're one of my favorite posters on this board but sometimes you sell yourself short.

Think bigger, man.

[T and A Man]

Getting more in touch with my masculinity is the most vaulable apsect, more so than seduction techniques or ACV.

But from a very basic evolutionary perspective, there's no such thing as a successsful species that doesn't want to breed.

Our urge to want kids is obviously a biological implant to ensure success. I reflected on this young day when I was on a train and looking at this smoking hot chick, she would have been arund 19 y/o, and my instinct was "I want to get you pregnant". Than's when I knew I had overcome shaming of masculinity and the male libido. I had become unrepentantly masculine.

To override that with social conditioning, to become a less successful species, says a lot to how toxic society has become.

First and foremost is marrying a proper young woman. Seeing articles on how 43% of female university grads are now childless ..... WTF??

How is that a successful species. Likewise, a womans healthy eggs are gone by her late 20's.

What this translates to is;

"As a woman, I am giving my best, I am placing a higher priority to, the corporation than my husband and children".

You don't want a woman with these type of priorities.

More recently, I've reflected another factor about it, about life.

I have a life, and i like where it's heading. Someone _gave_ that, gave life to me... that's pretty cool. That's why I'll do the same.

Mike has it right on a lot of levels.

Western woman are haters, western society breeds haters.

All you need is to make sure there are no haters in your life.

[Veloce]

(08-22-2013 07:29 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

thedude, you can cook.

When I was in some small Costa Rica town (can't remember, but it was on the Caribbean side), I had the best truffles and coffee of my life.

It's not because, "OMG! Vacation! Everything is amazing!"

It's because the place was run by an Irish expat.

I then had amazing Italian food, run by an Italian woman.

The place I stayed at was owned by two Americans.

Are you reading between the lines yet?

If you can cook, you can get out of this place. Start your own business. Find investors.

Costa Rica is oversold but, "Panama is the next Costa Rica."

You're one of my favorite posters on this board but sometimes you sell yourself short.

Think bigger, man.

I feel you, believe me man. I speak the language and I'm all up on Simon Black's weekly newsletter that won't shut up about Chile and Uruguay. It's been a strong consideration of mine.

The golden years of California are long gone, and I'd love to find the next place to "head west", so to speak. A buddy of mine went to Costa Rica and was raving about this place he found, literally an hour drive through the jungle and you wind up on this big straw shack on the beach. The guy that owns it cooks local seafood for whoever shows up and has musicians hang out and throw concerts at night, there's rum flowing and all sorts of international characters popping in at random. It sounds like paradise to me.

Before I land anywhere I gotta do a lot more serious travelling and find my own spot to settle down, something that calls to me. I'm definitely leaning toward central/south america.

Samseau-yeah with the same breakup chick. I didn't take the relationship seriously at all until recently, she's really been good while I've been going through all this personal shit. I've had a few moments of looking at her in a different light. Who the fuck knows at this point.

[kbell]

What type of family are you interested in? Nuclear or Extended?

I would think a foreign wife would be more extended style family where the parents may end up living with you or near you.

[Teutatis]

I'm not planning on ever getting married but I do want kids for sure, it's actually becoming a huge concern of mine, more and more since I'm getting older. My dream is to find a woman to have kids with who also doesn't mind that I have sex with other women whenever I feel like and takes good care of the kids and the household and of me of course. I would definitely retribute her kindness and love, except the having sex with other guys part. A guy can dream...

[The Beast1]

(08-22-2013 04:28 PM)bacon Wrote:  

Did I read you correctly that you have been divorced 3 times?

If your trying to go for the marriage and kids thing, its much easier to get going with foreign traditional women who either lives in the US already or it may require you to relocate to friendlier places.

Also I personally think more women want kids than men do so it shouldnt be to hard to find a woman who wants to do that with you.

I personally haven't been through 3 failed marriages. I should have phrased it as ,"I went through 3 divorces as a kid."

Also live in the US.

Divorce as a child really screws you up. Eventually you just stop caring who is brought into the home.

[el mechanico]

My advice for you guys that want kids is to have one kid with whoever to get the ball rolling. Having the kid is a lot harder than finding the wife/ltr so get moving on that first.

[Samseau]

(08-23-2013 08:59 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

My advice for you guys that want kids is to have one kid with whoever to get the ball rolling. Having the kid is a lot harder than finding the wife/ltr so get moving on that first.

How are you supposed to keep custody if you do that?

[el mechanico]

(08-23-2013 02:44 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 08:59 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

My advice for you guys that want kids is to have one kid with whoever to get the ball rolling. Having the kid is a lot harder than finding the wife/ltr so get moving on that first.

How are you supposed to keep custody if you do that?

How are you supposed to keep custody when your wife throws you out of the house?

Good Lawyer.

It all ends up the same.

Here's a question..What do all the girls you've dated have in common?

Answer: You're not with them anymore.

Have some balls and roll the dice.

[Veloce]

(08-23-2013 02:59 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 02:44 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 08:59 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

My advice for you guys that want kids is to have one kid with whoever to get the ball rolling. Having the kid is a lot harder than finding the wife/ltr so get moving on that first.

How are you supposed to keep custody if you do that?

How are you supposed to keep custody when your wife throws you out of the house?

Good Lawyer.

It all ends up the same.

Here's a question..What do all the girls you've dated have in common?

Answer: You're not with them anymore.

Have some balls and roll the dice.

I feel this too...I've been with enough girls to realize they're all just walking vaginas. I don't give a fuck about feelings anymore, maybe I'm jaded. I'm more interested in the qualities that the vagina host has as far as wife/mother material goes. I care more about someone that gives me backrubs and keeps the floors clean than "having a connection". Hence my insistence on foreign, in my case asian.

[MikeCF]

(08-23-2013 03:35 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

I feel this too...I've been with enough girls to realize they're all just walking vaginas. I don't give a fuck about feelings anymore, maybe I'm jaded. I'm more interested in the qualities that the vagina host has as far as wife/mother material goes. I care more about someone that gives me backrubs and keeps the floors clean than "having a connection". Hence my insistence on foreign, in my case asian.

When you have a girl who wants nothing more than to make it happy, your "love instincts" as a man gets triggered.

Think about how much men love dogs. Men love dogs because the dog puts the man before itself.

But that triggers something within the man that makes him want to elevate the dog's interest.

We live in such a sick culture that it's hard for us to understand. We have to look out for #1 because women will fuck us over otherwise.

But that is not the natural condition of a man.

In relationships, men are naturally softies.

Hell, how many of us screwed up relationships because we were too soft with these crazy women?

I was unbelievably nice to my ex-wife and she punished me for it. Then I was a tyrant and she rewarded it.

That's when I decided that being an asshole who is on his game 24/7 isn't worth it.

Find a feminine woman who wants to serve and the better parts of your personality will come out again.

[Screwston]

I want kids one day but not anytime soon. I see guys my age with families and they cant even go grab a drink or fishing at the beach because of their bitch and kids at home. Guys are so scared to have little ones when theyre older for some strange reason.

[Akula]

(08-23-2013 03:35 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 02:59 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 02:44 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 08:59 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

My advice for you guys that want kids is to have one kid with whoever to get the ball rolling. Having the kid is a lot harder than finding the wife/ltr so get moving on that first.

How are you supposed to keep custody if you do that?

How are you supposed to keep custody when your wife throws you out of the house?

Good Lawyer.

It all ends up the same.

Here's a question..What do all the girls you've dated have in common?

Answer: You're not with them anymore.

Have some balls and roll the dice.

I feel this too...I've been with enough girls to realize they're all just walking vaginas. I don't give a fuck about feelings anymore, maybe I'm jaded. I'm more interested in the qualities that the vagina host has as far as wife/mother material goes. I care more about someone that gives me backrubs and keeps the floors clean than "having a connection". Hence my insistence on foreign, in my case asian.

Yeah I've been feeling it more and more recently.

I mean I've dated hundreds of girls, had over 10 long-term 'relationships'. Its pretty apparent that there are always flaws, none of them will ever come close to being perfect. You can't wait around forever. That doesn't mean I have to settle it's just that I realize much better now that women have a lot of faults, you can't find the 'one' and even if things click in the beginning and you have everything in common you're still more than likely to grow apart and break up at some point during the relationship. Maybe the bond of a child will help keep you together, but I dunno, in my experience from what I've seen it's just as likely to completely tear two people apart.

In any case, looking for clues that she would be a good mom/caretaker are pretty important. That means even if you did break up after the kid at least she would be a good mom.

I'm 0-10 on relationships anyway, so not sure why I should expect any of them to work out. Just being realistic. I'm leaning more and more towards 'rolling the dice' I guess.

[jimukr104]

(08-22-2013 04:48 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(08-22-2013 03:30 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

How do you guys reconcile that drive to watch the next generation grow up and take over the world?

Sounds like a bad reason to have kids. After a few generations, you will be forgotten anyway.

Do you really think any of us are that important where we need a legacy?

If it is just passing genes on, go to a sperm bank or knock up some foreign women. After 3 divorces, I would be hanging the towel up when it comes to marriage.

Agreed.....I get scared enough seeing how future generations are today and certainly cringe at the thought of those gopniks taking over the world. Besides future generations are destined to have a lower standard of living. World is overpopulated enough..I have NO problem letting soem one else have the JOY of raising spoiled brats that will try to sue me for LIFE issues.
I am married, my wife is traditional and submissive and has that biological Ukrainian thing for children. She likes children but in her own words 'she would be afraid to have children today' .She sees todays kids as nothing more than hooligans who wine and cry for iphone 5's. We decided, maybe with a little regret to live for ourselves. Besides the quickest way to poverty is to raise children.
So I thank all you guys who are going to raise rug-rats to pay taxes and chip in for my social security..you guys are truly BEAUTIFUL

btw I do get the whole LEGACY thing...but majority of people don't have much of a legacy to leave behind.if I was a KING sure ..but if i am a average Accountant ,or teacher with average means what legacy am I LEAVING?

[Vicious]

Am I the only one that's considering kids for egoistic reasons, and not all the fluffy stuff?