[Fujiwara]

I was at Budda Bar on Thursday night... Absolutely dead, but chatted up a Canadian girl and her Belorussian friend. They were the only two girls without men with them... Most tables were empty. Bounced with them to Skybar and caught a lingerie contest of sorts, then the Canadian girl said her friend was creeped out by my mate and they bounced before we went to a strip club near our hotel and got pissed til sunrise.

Now in Lviv.

My experience was that these Kiev was not so dissimilar from Miami club life, except that the music was much older.

Here in Lviv, I have not spoken any Russian as most people I have met all speak pretty damn good English.

I did like Kharkiv a lot... I still had to try to speak in Russian to get around, And I even got into a car with a couple total strangers who showed me around the town. Kharkiv is the one city of the three that I would really like to return to and spend some time in.

Off to Slovakia...

[The Duke]

It's interesting to hear your quick comparisons of those cities, and that people in Lviv speak much better English than Kiev or Kharkiv.

About the deadness of the Budda Bar, I think it is typical for nightlife to be dampened in the Summer (in non-Black Sea cities?). There was a bar in Kharkiv that used to close only for the Summer. I think it's in part because people are vacationing at the Black Sea.

[slubu]

Since when is Kiev filled with so many prudes?

Last night was actually pretty fun, but still no bang. Started at Buddha Bar, which I will verify what others have said it's the only place I've seen whores reject guys. We had a friend visiting from Poland so we wanted to show him the scene.

Two stunners were just at a table by themselves, so I said why not. Went up to one of them:

Me: Do you speak english?
Her: (blank stare)
Me: Ti gavareesh pa-angliski?
Her: Nyet (turns her head)
Me: Ksajaleenyu
Her: (slight smirk, turns her head)

So that was that, Russian style coldness. As we were leaving ran into the 18yo I went out with, she was cold to me too for whatever reason. Told me she's going home...

Then we go to another bar, and believe it or not the talent may have been better than the place the night before. Filled to the brim with young 8s and 9s. Of course I see that 18yo at the door trying to get in, surprise she lied about going home. Don't acknowledge her and we walk right in (suits help?).

Hang out for a bit but the setup is absolutely terrible for gaming girls, its basically all tables there. We leave and go to old reliable, Vodka Bar.

There the girls are not all 8s and 9s but at least you have some 7s and 8s that are down to party. Meet an ok blonde, talk with her over translator. Go outside with her, she says she likes me try to get her over but she won't go. Says I can go have coffee with her by her place. Considered it but I wanted the bang so just get her # and go back inside.

Get inside and my buddy has a cute brunette he's working on so he yells at me to go occupy her friend, a cute blonde. I happily oblige and she's into me even though she has no English ability. Eventually we are making out hard and she keeps accusing me of just wanting her for sex, why I don't have a gf, I probably do this to all the girls, etc. All good signs she likes me, but keep in mind this was all through translate.

At one point I had to deflect a hammered Ukrainian ripped beast who tried to caveman the two girls. He kept blabbering about how the girls only like foreigners and crap like that. I was pretty careful because this guy was built like a rock but he eventually left.

Still making out with my girl, thigh in her pussy and she's clawing my neck as we're going at it. I think I have a chance, I really do, as we are really going at it. But she won't come over, wrote on translate that she's a "decent girl" and so on. I think because of her friend that was less crazy - she wouldn't make out with my friend and was just standing there. I don't think these girls like to slut it up in front of each other.

13 nights, 0 new bangs. If someone told me that before I came I would not have believed it.

[Roosh]

One of the hardest things to achieve in Ukraine is consistency. You think you're figuring it out after devising a new move or theory, and then you consciously apply it but it doesn't work as expected. It's a 3 steps forward, 2 steps back kind of deal, but sometimes it's 2 steps forwards, 3 steps backwards.

I've met a lot of players in Ukraine, and the frustration is visible. The most common "technique" they all mention is "luck." The only other place I've heard it mentioned that many times is Argentina.

My current experimentation involves finding out how much a Ukrainian girl will chase you if the attraction is strong. I'm trying to find what the limits are to her behavior. I'm learning that a girl here is capable of chasing quite a bit for a guy she really likes IF she has few other options. That fact doesn't help me get laid immediately, but it is information that would help over the long term.

[Greek kamaki]

(06-23-2013 05:30 AM)slubu Wrote:  

Since when is Kiev filled with so many prudes?

Last night was actually pretty fun, but still no bang. Started at Buddha Bar, which I will verify what others have said it's the only place I've seen whores reject guys. We had a friend visiting from Poland so we wanted to show him the scene.

Two stunners were just at a table by themselves, so I said why not. Went up to one of them:

Me: Do you speak english?
Her: (blank stare)
Me: Ti gavareesh pa-angliski?
Her: Nyet (turns her head)
Me: Ksajaleenyu
Her: (slight smirk, turns her head)

So that was that, Russian style coldness. As we were leaving ran into the 18yo I went out with, she was cold to me too for whatever reason. Told me she's going home...

Then we go to another bar, and believe it or not the talent may have been better than the place the night before. Filled to the brim with young 8s and 9s. Of course I see that 18yo at the door trying to get in, surprise she lied about going home. Don't acknowledge her and we walk right in (suits help?).

Hang out for a bit but the setup is absolutely terrible for gaming girls, its basically all tables there. We leave and go to old reliable, Vodka Bar.

There the girls are not all 8s and 9s but at least you have some 7s and 8s that are down to party. Meet an ok blonde, talk with her over translator. Go outside with her, she says she likes me try to get her over but she won't go. Says I can go have coffee with her by her place. Considered it but I wanted the bang so just get her # and go back inside.

Get inside and my buddy has a cute brunette he's working on so he yells at me to go occupy her friend, a cute blonde. I happily oblige and she's into me even though she has no English ability. Eventually we are making out hard and she keeps accusing me of just wanting her for sex, why I don't have a gf, I probably do this to all the girls, etc. All good signs she likes me, but keep in mind this was all through translate.

At one point I had to deflect a hammered Ukrainian ripped beast who tried to caveman the two girls. He kept blabbering about how the girls only like foreigners and crap like that. I was pretty careful because this guy was built like a rock but he eventually left.

Still making out with my girl, thigh in her pussy and she's clawing my neck as we're going at it. I think I have a chance, I really do, as we are really going at it. But she won't come over, wrote on translate that she's a "decent girl" and so on. I think because of her friend that was less crazy - she wouldn't make out with my friend and was just standing there. I don't think these girls like to slut it up in front of each other.

13 nights, 0 new bangs. If someone told me that before I came I would not have believed it.

13 days in Kiev and no new bangs? How much money have you spent? Have you hit DLux, Decadence, Carribean? Have you been engaged in Kreshatik day game? You must do sth wrong.

[BCZalgyris]

Greek, this is not the Kiev of 2005 that you remember. Gaming is way more difficult now as many local girls have been massively exposed to foreigners and their shields have gone up quite a bit. Forget ONS in kiev now, dating, wining and dining is the norm now and Slubus experiences parallel those of mine quite a bit which i described in my March Kiev report.

[Alexander]

I advise players in Ukraine to be persistent, if a guy invests a lot of time and energy in a girl the girl will feel obliged to fuck them. The same is true if you invest a few drinks in them.

Watch what the Ukrainian dudes do, group of guys approach a table of girls, at first the girls are not interested, then one them manages to engage the weak lamb in the group, in the space of a couple of minutes they're all having a great time.

[Alexander]

ONS is certainly still possible. You need to create some excitment for them, they love fairy tales. Girls in the west would be able to see straight through it, Ukrainian girls are naive

[Greek kamaki]

Last time I was in Kiev was in 2011 and it was better than 2009 and 2010 I doubt it has gotten so much worse since then.I really ned to check out.

[slubu]

I had two ONS in Kiev several months ago. I know it's possible. Just struggling right now.

[Roosh]

Quote:

13 days in Kiev and no new bangs? How much money have you spent? Have you hit DLux, Decadence, Carribean? Have you been engaged in Kreshatik day game? You must do sth wrong.

He doesn't do p4p like you.

[Greek kamaki]

I don't do p4p although I do not deny that if I am in a club with no success and a girl I hit says 100$ for the whole night I may comply.However it is my experience that Kiev is the best city in Ukraine for one night stands with normal girls.

[jimukr104]

Kiev certainly is the best. Problem is figuring out what motivates them to do so???look fsu girls don't get a badge for being slurry like western girls. Fact, their attraction is more logical than emotiOn. It has to make one conclude that chicks that ONS are either below average in looks or have other intentions. Remember most have a local fuck buddy so your cock isn't necessary. Truth time.....most have exterior motives if they ONS. That is same now as it was 10 years ago. All these chicks are not normal girls Greek. Normal girls don't have money to club or to drink in bars. These are the fashion/club girls who are seeking something. Some might be Anglo lovers. Those are yOur best bet. But stop calling these NORMAL girls. The normal girl lives far away from the center and takes metro. Very rarely been In a cab. Just because you don't directly give her cash ,doesn't make her any less transactional. For example 2 ten dollar drinks is avg daily salary for majority of chicks. It be the same cash equal of giving an AMerican girl 300 bucks. Maybe it's time our posters try actually street game and metro game?? Or go to student clubs??that being said....doesn't mean you will get ONS. It's simply not part of the culture. That means it is always partly based on luck. But it is probably cheaper to date a poor student than what your spending to go to overpriced night venues and be put into the "buy me a sushi or drink" position. Moscow has to be much better....simply because it's a melting pot.
Another curiosity....is it possible being on national tv has made it worst?not that they recognize you, but now chicks are more weary of foreign men doing pick up. Being a popular show,I cAnt see how it isn't out yet. Fsu girls have small town mentality of getting info.

[iknowexactly]

(06-23-2013 11:37 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Problem is figuring out what motivates them to do so???....

For example 2 ten dollar drinks is avg daily salary for majority of chicks. It be the same cash equal of giving an AMerican girl 300 bucks.

I like your post, but the average 20-something girl in America doesn't make 300/day, or 75k a year.

I'd say it's more like max 100 per day if she's stuck in Starbucks, or 200 if she is hooked up with a good waitress gig or has graduated with a degree in finance and has been hired for her legs at a bank. Only if she went to an elite school for business, or is 25-26 and got an MBA or some other serious professional degree ( Comp Sci) will she be making 75k.

This is why seekingarrangement game seems to be working

[Vicious]

The developments regarding Kiev is depressing. After my latest trip I've giving serious thought to say FUCK IT and just uproot everything. Russia/Ukraine where areas that I saw as possible destinations since it's educated and generally smart girls that I do well with. At the same time I am a city person and having to dig deep into Tier 2 shitholes is not going to improve my current very comfy existence.

[The Fantasist]

(06-23-2013 07:49 AM)Alexander Wrote:  

I advise players in Ukraine to be persistent, if a guy invests a lot of time and energy in a girl the girl will feel obliged to fuck them. The same is true if you invest a few drinks in them.

Watch what the Ukrainian dudes do, group of guys approach a table of girls, at first the girls are not interested, then one them manages to engage the weak lamb in the group, in the space of a couple of minutes they're all having a great time.

Alexander that's a great post. The reason being you have summed up in two paragraphs everything you need to know about approaching in the Ukraine and wider FSU in a bar environment. From Bishkek to Brest you either say "Davstate nam kompaniya" ( forgive the spelling ) and they join you and your friends or you just go join them and hang in there when they ignore you and show no interest in the opening five minutes. It can take balls and I've seen confident Westerners bail when there was zero response after a few minutes, I've bailed myself in the past tbh, but as long as they are not getting up and leaving you're in with a shot. Before you know it their filling your glass from the carafe and you're on your way to something...

[rishboy77]

(06-23-2013 11:14 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I don't do p4p although I do not deny that if I am in a club with no success and a girl I hit says 100$ for the whole night I may comply.However it is my experience that Kiev is the best city in Ukraine for one night stands with normal girls.

I very much doubt a young hottie 8+ plus who knows the value of her beauty would give you a all nighter for $100 from a place D'Lux, Skybar, etc.
I'm more interested to see if Roosh uses some of own advice in Bang Ukraine to game normal girls this time around. In Ukraine like many other places social contacts are very important to a foothold especially for a better educated women. Otherwise you might be seen as just another lame sex tourist.

[Greek kamaki]

In DLux of course not.But in Caribbean they do it.The problem many guys have is being able to handle the competition.When they see the fire they say "this is not my environment."
It is also very important if the girl is from Kiev a native or from some province.The latter can be more willing but then again it depends.

[Partizan]

(06-23-2013 11:14 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I don't do p4p although I do not deny that if I am in a club with no success and a girl I hit says 100$ for the whole night I may comply.However it is my experience that Kiev is the best city in Ukraine for one night stands with normal girls.

Well at least you now admit to buying sex by financial/gift transactions. The ISG is the place for that.

[nonoone]

Guys, being a Kievan myself I must tell you that following a thread like this is a massive source of fun. Thanks!

[The Fantasist]

(06-23-2013 11:14 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

I don't do p4p although I do not deny that if I am in a club with no success and a girl I hit says 100$ for the whole night I may comply.

That made me chuckle. In the same sentence you say you will pay a girl $100 for sex but that you don't do p4p! What is your definition of p4p then? I'm not hating, I have nothing against p4p myself and would be lying if I said I'd never taken that path but let's call a spade a spade.

I respect your info on here and knowledge of EE but I wonder how well you would do if you did not offer any gifts or cash to girls? What percentage of your bangs have been gotten with no direct offers of cash or gifts?

Also in support of you I admit it's a murky line between p4p and regular. I just paid for a girl's flight and visa so she can visit me in France. Is that p4p? Maybe but if I didn't do it she would not have been able to come so what do you do? I suppose I can justify it because she never said "buy my flight and I'll fuck you" it's a more subtle unspoken transaction so I feel comfortable with it.

[Roosh]

Like Vorkuta, I respect Kamaki's knowledge, but in the back of my mind I know he has the shortcut move of offering a 100 euro gift at his apartment to sweeten the deal for sex.

No one is judging Kamaki for the gifting, and I know his game involves much more ability than that, but to criticize another guy for his results when he doesn't use gifting/cash is like a guy on steroids criticizing a vegetarian for not having muscles as big as him.

[Alexander]

True, although this would perhaps support the theory that guys who pay for it are getting the best results, which is not always the case. Money is a significant part of the picture in Kiev, but I have met some successful foreign players there who barely have any more money than what's in their pocket. These guys of course have good looks, game, confidence, charm, and paint a nice picture for them.

Getting women in Ukraine is a weird charade with specific rules that you reluctantly play along with to get what you want.

[Mersault]

(06-23-2013 05:30 PM)Alexander Wrote:  

Getting women in Ukraine is a weird charade with specific rules that you reluctantly play along with to get what you want.

In Ukraine?
More like the world Mister Alexander.

Stand upright, talk shit,. If that doesn't work. Sit down and talk more shit. If that doesn't work, pull your shoulders back and go talk shit to somebody else. And so on.

[BCZalgyris]

Jimukr104 just hit the spot with his answer about NORMAL Kiev girls:

"All these chicks are not normal girls Greek. Normal girls don't have money to club or to drink in bars. These are the fashion/club girls who are seeking something. Some might be Anglo lovers. Those are yOur best bet. But stop calling these NORMAL girls. The normal girl lives far away from the center and takes metro. Very rarely been In a cab. Just because you don't directly give her cash ,doesn't make her any less transactional."

I actually met 3 "NORMAL" girls during my March trip. Here's what seems normal over there:

- Living a 20 minute metro ride away from city center (no 20 year old girl can afford living in city center)
- rarely, if ever, taking a cab
- rarely, if ever, eating out
- rarely, if ever, traveling outside UA (Poland, Belarus & Russia were the only countries those 3 girls had been to)
- NOT SPEAKING ENGLISH (might suprise some of you players on here who never took the Marshrutka to the suburbs)
- Going to a club like Vodka Bar, D'Lux, Mafia Cafe, etc. once or twice per year, usually only on special occasions only such as her birthday
- doing low key events on weekend nights is the norm...bowling seems to be a popular thing there, or just strolling at night-time and stopping by the kiosks to get a quick waffle and ice-cream with their girlfriends
- chronic under employment...even the girls with good degrees i went on date's with were working menial jobs, might not be the norm but makes you think twice before starting to flash all the cash (you don't want to turn them into gold-diggers).
- not having their own car, relying on public transportation (I wonder, would rental car game work there, perhaps promising girls trips to nearby places of interest like the black sea, what do you guys think?)

I'm sure there are other "norms" that one might find so am looking to hear from others.