[Alexander]

(06-17-2013 04:04 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 11:28 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 11:05 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Greek it is no doubt worse now than pre 2003 but you have a tendency to down play that the mentality has not changed much. News flash......it was not that easy back then. We may think Ot was because it is better than now but most guys weren't getting laid ONS back then. You paint rosy pictures that were not the case. Heck. You and me probably even met back then. But I actually new the guys who were the best at the time and they still had trouble. Probably more ONs now then back then.
Sure we got more attention because being an outsider was COOL. But the girls still played the extract the mineral game. Maybe because you are so quick to give padaracks that you don't recognize the hardship that us non spenders had back then???now if you are talking about 1994-1999 then I would agree with you. The long term expats who o know who loved there that period all thought it was better.

Agreed.

I reckon I was in the Ukraine before anyone on this board pretty much. I touched down into a run down and fucked up Kiev in April 1993. I was walking along the Kreschatic before there was any neon on it. Were women throwing themselves at me? Haha, nope, unfortunately not. Did the waitresses in cafes slip me their numbers? Nope. Chamber maids in the Hotel Bratislava where I stayed ( room 606 I still remember that rock hard single bed )? Nope. Moscow was the same in 1993. It was easier than now but were women throwing themselves at me? Nope. It's a bit of a myth at just how easy it supposedly was. It was easier than now, 100%, I have some funny stories from those times but it wasn't the case that models were trying to seduce you for your passport. That is a myth. I know because I was there.

You know I just realize something else that can cloud us FOGEY's view.Years ago we were younger and of course it was easier getting with younger women. One of the reasons it might be harder for the over 30 group is that they are still pursuing the young ones. In fact in the last decade one thing I have notice is even large age differences are NOT as acceptable or desirable as once was. There are even older FSU chicks willing and sometimes preferring to date younger guys..unheard of years ago.
For example I remember Wolverine(Russian born) was experimenting with VK.com. He thought it was pretty useless.Girls didn't really want to chat with people they didn't know ,regardless if foreign or not.Other guys reported the same thing. The girls on there don't seem to want foreign friends ,etc .BUT it seems younger RVF who are under 25 say they do ok on it. That tells me right there that they seem more trusting when there is not a large age difference(VK seems to be 90% under 23). Maybe if we were younger it would be like pre -2005.It is us that got older lol.

In fact it's the other way around, the young guys 25 and under don't have it easy with girls say 21-22 because they're more interested in the guys 30-40.

The younger Ukrainian guy has little to offer in terms of wealth, sexual and life experience.

VK.com works great for some

[Menace]

(06-17-2013 01:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Something I've repeatedly noticed are Ukrainian women who I would classify only in the 6 range getting into luxury autos, sometimes even driving them. If a 6 can snag a guy who can afford that, I'm sure girls who are hotter feel entitled to such a man as well, contributing to obstacles we generally attribute to Ukraine.

I also noticed this in Moldova. I would think how I wouldn't even buy such a girl a beer, yet this guy is wifing it up with his money and status.

So female entitlement runs high there, despite the poor economic conditions. Why bother going to the Ukraine then? I understand it has a large supply of beautiful women, but they appear to be on pedestals a mile high.

[Alexander]

Well Ukraine is the largest country in Europe, there are vast differences between some of the cities.

The most predatory, entitled women are to be found in cities such as Kiev, Odessa, Nikolayev, Kherson, Donetsk, Lugansk etc. These cities are full of scamming women, it's a multi-million dollar industry.

If you want to find a good woman then you are best looking in cities where women are more religious and conservative, like many Western Ukrainian cities.

To get laid in Ukraine with hot bitches you must play the game, women there are rather stupid and they can be easily fooled into thinking you have cash, especially the younger women. As long as you have a nice jacket, nice phone, nice watch, and can afford a couple of bottles of Odessa champagne then you can pass as a rich guy

[Roosh]

Quote:

Why bother going to the Ukraine then?

Good question.

[GameTheory]

how about the following provincial cities? do y'all think they are good ???

Neteshin, Slavutich, Komsomolsk, Energodar, Kuznetsovsk, Melitopol, Korosten, Ladyzhin, Artemivsk, Kalush, Yuzhnoukrainsk, Shostka, Nizhyn, Gorlovka, Kryvyi Rih, Belgorod-Dnistrovsky, Mirgorod, Ivano-Frankivsk, Ishmael, Berdyansk.

thanks

[Pierre]

Roosh will you return to Industrial Shithole?

This video from a nightclub there proves conclusively that bearded guys DO get love in Ukraine!

[Roosh]

^^^ Hah Radmir. Good club. Talent is very high there.

[BCZalgyris]

That video post by Pierre of the UA nightclub got me excited, the talent seems unbelievable! I'll be in several cities in UA starting in early July but am primarily interested in doing some night-game in Odessa ( I will be staying at a beach house in Arcadia area). None of the posters have any recent data sheets on this city so perhaps someone on these forums can start by recommending good night-clubs, especially one's where one can run plenty of bar game instead of having to deal with deafening techno music and a very young crowd who only want to dance like Zombies?

[The Duke]

(06-17-2013 04:57 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

Why bother going to the Ukraine then?

Good question.

I think Roosh likes a challenge, a high challenge with a high reward.

[coopers317]

(06-17-2013 10:18 PM)The Duke Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 04:57 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

Why bother going to the Ukraine then?

Good question.

I think Roosh likes a challenge, a high challenge with a high reward.

Totally concur...no pain no gain. Despite everything I've read about non-white guys, I gotta see this part of the world for myself. I'm planning on going to Cro, but something about Ukraine is just too good to not see for myself. Will be stopping thru for a few days in September. I'm goin in...

[rastignac]

(06-17-2013 04:31 PM)Menace Wrote:  

So female entitlement runs high there, despite the poor economic conditions. Why bother going to the Ukraine then? I understand it has a large supply of beautiful women, but they appear to be on pedestals a mile high.

Entitlement - getting something while giving nothing in return - is a concept we use to talk about western female expectations. Ukrainian women tend to see everything as an exchange. They do everything they can to maximize their perceived value in the exchange. Western women could not be bothered. They have been taught they have intrinsic value.

Supply and demand is extremely important. The high supply and relatively low demand make for a dynamic where you can get a lot more than you give. But you have to give. "I am going to be a total dick" game that works in America and is absolutely the cheapest route to pussy (for the millennial man on a budget) won't work there if you are a foreigner. They can get that from their young slavic men... and they are much better at it than you. They will typically get their women to support them, cheat on them and eventually leave them.

Why bother? It is eye opening to see such a large supply of attractive women.

[slubu]

Another quick update before my tutor comes, which has a funny story onto itself:

1. @jimkur yes they are real iphones as far as I can tell. And some have iphone 5s too. I can iMessage with them, not sure how they could fake that and I've taken photos with them too, so they are real. Girls are walking around with Ipads too, at bars, at cafes, in parks taking pictures.

2. I have to phase out this night game. Last night ended up at Vodka Bar again (starting to hate that place) and on my walk home I got stopped by the police asking for my documents, going through my pockets, etc. I was able to get them to back off saying certain things and with my slight Russian but still rather annoying to go through that. In Buda/Vienna you can walk around without hassle at any time of the night.

3. Another night my friend and I were followed by two Ukranian dudes who wouldn't leave us alone for about 10 minutes and even followed us into McDonalds when we went to take a piss. Eventually they gave up but who knows what they were trying to do at 5am to us.

4. This tutor I got for Russian, kind of cute girl, about 28 I'd say. We were talking to her about Ukraine and she tells us all these cultural activities to do, etc. I get the huge impression she is one of the good girls, not the type that clubs like crazy. So as I mentioned I ended up at Vodka Bar last night and of course she is there hammered dancing with some guy and partying like a club rat. Quite funny.

5. Anyone have any suggestions on how to game in McDonalds? I swear there are more hot girls in there than any other closed spot.

6. Going to start daygaming soon, is it better to open in broken Russian or just go in with American openers? I guess I could try both and see but curious what others were finding.

[Roosh]

Quote:

This tutor I got for Russian, kind of cute girl, about 28 I'd say. We were talking to her about Ukraine and she tells us all these cultural activities to do, etc. I get the huge impression she is one of the good girls, not the type that clubs like crazy.

Yes their game is to convince you they are a good girl. Sometimes it's quite convincing, but if you go in with the assumption that there are NO good girls, you'll be right 99% of the time.

Quote:

is it better to open in broken Russian or just go in with American openers?

-"Do you speak English?"
-Tourist question
-Ease into basic personal chat
-"Are you married?"
-Ask for a drink

Simple but effective.

[The Fantasist]

(06-18-2013 07:14 AM)slubu Wrote:  

5. Anyone have any suggestions on how to game in McDonalds? I swear there are more hot girls in there than any other closed spot.

6. Going to start daygaming soon, is it better to open in broken Russian or just go in with American openers? I guess I could try both and see but curious what others were finding.

5. Target the window queue after the clubs close. Full of drunken women who did not find what they were looking for in the bars. I have done better there than anywhere else in Kiev ( big one on the Kreschatic ). Go in hard and escalate quickly. Or if in the daytime you just sit down at a table where there are girls, it's common to join others in the FSU if there are not many free places. Then just run game.

6. How good is your Russian? If it is minimal go in with English since you won't understand a Russian reply anyway.

[rastignac]

Good luck to all the guys in Ukraine this summer.

[BCZalgyris]

(06-18-2013 07:35 AM)rastignac Wrote:  

Good luck to all the guys in Ukraine this summer.

Thanks, I'll need it! Hitting up some 3rd tier cities like Simferopol, Sevastopol, and Yalta for an added challenge after i'm done with Odessa. No pipe-lining there for me, will try some beach game in Yalta although worried might run into too many young girls and families. Anyone have recommendations on these 3 cities?

[Prosal]

(06-17-2013 04:54 PM)Alexander Wrote:  

To get laid in Ukraine with hot bitches you must play the game, women there are rather stupid and they can be easily fooled into thinking you have cash, especially the younger women. As long as you have a nice jacket, nice phone, nice watch, and can afford a couple of bottles of Odessa champagne then you can pass as a rich guy

+1. You can manipulate the "high-octane elite club” type very easily with cash and confidence, which is only fair since they are essentially there to manipulate you too. I occasionally go for this type...it's not my favorite type of girl, although I admit I have met a few gems here. Not all elite club girls are money-hungry bitches - or at least they will maybe not be money-hungry bitches with YOU, as they already have one or two providers.

IMO, Ukrainian and Russian "party girls" aren't so much attracted to money as much as they are to the fun that money generates. Personally I like to create a fun atmosphere. There is a big difference between a lonely guy at the bar nursing his beer while nervously eyeing the dance floor and a couple of guys sitting at a table adjacent to the dance floor laughing and sipping cocktails happily flirting with the girls walking by. It's no surprise that girls want to go where the fun is. Cyndi Lauper said it best "Girls just wanna have fun". So do I. That's why I always take more money with me than I expect to spend and don't regret it when I do. I might not be rich, but I am rich in girl stories. And despite what I have read here, in Ukraine most girls going in clubs are not looking to find a provider or a potential sponsor.They FIRST go there to have fun and if the mood is right, they MIGHT go home with someone. For us, it's all about being that someone. It's about making that happen.

If a girl likes the flash cash and money of the local high-rollers, don't waste your time trying to keep up. You'll either fail or just waste a lot of money acting like some minigarch wannabe. There are plenty of other girls around.

(06-17-2013 09:45 PM)BCZalgyris Wrote:  

None of the posters have any recent data sheets on this city so perhaps someone on these forums can start by recommending good night-clubs, especially one's where one can run plenty of bar game instead of having to deal with deafening techno music and a very young crowd who only want to dance like Zombies?

I also prefer places that play danceable chart music instead of the standard mind-numbing, spirit-crushing techno. Unfortunatly, in Odessa, Kiev, Kharkov, ect, nightlife is essentially about clubs or pubs with no or few things in-between. No uber-fun DJ bars - ie fun places that are upscale and drinking hole under one roof, where everyone goes wild crazy and looses all morals with impromptu dancing on the bar, strip contests where drunk sluts are ready to bare it all for a tequila bottle, alcohol flowing, ect, and where the music is old school '80s and '70s Russian or Western rock and pop that everyone can dance and get lively to.

Ad a side note, Moscow or Piter are swarming with this type of places.

(06-16-2013 10:49 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

a pretty grim picture of the dating scene in the Ukraine and the mentality of the women there

Agree at 100% with V. There is still in Ukraine MANY honest girls. Girls with honest feelings, emotions, goals and reactions. With them, you need to develop other skills than the simple fact of being a foreigner or having money. Intelligence, empathy, charm, wit, cultural awereness come to mind. Knowing HER culture also helps a lot. Also, as I already said, many guys seem to be approaching it solely from the "what can I get from her" perspective. In FSU, you'll only have limited success with this approach and she'll understand that you don't respect her. She'll give you no respect either. If that's all you care about, you'd better stick with prostitutes. You'll be happier that way and save a lot of time and effort - and sometimes admittedly of money.

Rule n°1 is simply to approach girls that mesh well with you. My instinct is pretty good at choosing the ones I'll build the best attraction with. This includes banging girls from all society tiers... students, elite girls, intellectual or arty girls and down to girls working in shops, as housewives etc. Certain types seem drawn to me whereas other types would probably overlook me if I was standing alone in the middle of the dance floor with my hair on fire. You can't win them all, go with something that works. Knowing YOUR and HER taste is essential.

[hayesbrandon30]

Quote:

Agree at 100% with V. There is still in Ukraine MANY honest girls. Girls with honest feelings, emotions, goals and reactions. With them, you need to develop other skills than the simple fact of being a foreigner or having money. Intelligence, empathy, charm, wit, cultural awereness come to mind. Knowing HER culture also helps a lot. Also, as I already said, many guys seem to be approaching it solely from the "what can I get from her" perspective. In FSU, you'll only have limited success with this approach and she'll understand that you don't respect her. She'll give you no respect either. If that's all you care about, you'd better stick with prostitutes. You'll be happier that way and save a lot of time and effort - and sometimes admittedly of money.

Rule n°1 is simply to approach girls that mesh well with you. My instinct is pretty good at choosing the ones I'll build the best attraction with. This includes banging girls from all society tiers... students, elite girls, intellectual or arty girls and down to girls working in shops, as housewives etc. Certain types seem drawn to me whereas other types would probably overlook me if I was standing alone in the middle of the dance floor with my hair on fire. You can't win them all, go with something that works. Knowing YOUR and HER taste is essential.

I agree with this about "party sluts" vs. "honest nice girls" and what gaming those two types of women requires - but then again we must distinguish between One Night Stand pick-up type guys and Long-term relationship type guys.

this is video from an old documentary filmed in 2008 about russian ladies in St. Petersburg.

i think this is an example of a beautiful nice-sweet woman trying hard to put herself in a positive situation who probably wouldn't give it up very easily, and rightfully so too.

a girl like this i imagine gaming her would require decent looks, having good physical shape, good fashion, alittle style, money, knowinger her culture, speaking good russian, Intelligence, empathy, charm, wit like Prosal said.

[iknowexactly]

(06-19-2013 06:32 PM)hayesbrandon30 Wrote:  

i think this is an example of a beautiful nice-sweet woman trying hard to put herself in a positive situation who probably wouldn't give it up very easily, and rightfully so too.

2008 is another era, pre-facewhore. I believe everything is a good notch or two different now they can easily daily see guys from Germany, England etc. ,and easily extrapolate looking at posts that her ideal guy is not swimming in pussy. They still are not nuts enough to think becoming a cat lady shows her to be strong and independent, and they don't hate masculinity, it's just they're more aware of their market value.

You can still get a good woman in Russia if you are close enough to the western YoungTallCool standard(with maybe 2out of 3), but requirements are higher.

[Virtus]

Roosh. heed my words and make a killing in both $$$ and in pussy slayed. Yet as a Ukrainian here I can tell you this. You are uniquely positioned now, being a student of human psyche of the world's dating cultures to offer something, that all these Ukrainian women want. They want out. They want to win. Teach them Roosh. Teach them intimate psychology of western males. Turn the tables on your previous market. Teach them lessons on how to seduce an Turk into giving her all their money, how to manipulate an American into marriage via OkStupid or PlenyofFat. Then pick ones that are likely to go through with most cunning plans a make them case studies. Teach seminars there. You have a cachet as a published writer and a dating coach. Then white a book in Russian. "Seduce Europe" or "Marry America" targeted at these women. Teach them irresistible femininity and talk about how to divorce rape silicone valley nerds and manhattan quants and you will drown in pussy juice.

Also you could level with these girls you're trying to pick up about writing the book and designing seminars. Ask them what they want to know and bang while you do your research

If you start this I will drop everything in the US and come back to be your assistant I think this would work so well

[Virtus]

http://alexmay.msk.ru/ I met this guy in LA. he is killing it with seminars about teaching women how to cum and how to "attach your man to you"

his channel https://www.youtube.com/results?q=Алекс+Мэй

also http://lover.ru is the premiere pick up site in Russian for you to learn russian pickup from

[jimukr104]

(06-19-2013 07:58 PM)calihunter Wrote:  

Roosh. heed my words and make a killing in both $$$ and in pussy slayed. Yet as a Ukrainian here I can tell you this. You are uniquely positioned now, being a student of human psyche of the world's dating cultures to offer something, that all these Ukrainian women want. They want out. They want to win. Teach them Roosh. Teach them intimate psychology of western males. Turn the tables on your previous market. Teach them lessons on how to seduce an Turk into giving her all their money, how to manipulate an American into marriage via OkStupid or PlenyofFat. Then pick ones that are likely to go through with most cunning plans a make them case studies. Teach seminars there. You have a cachet as a published writer and a dating coach. Then white a book in Russian. "Marry Europe" or "Marry America" targeted at these women. Teach them irresistible femininity and talk about how to divorce rape silicone valley nerds and manhattan quants and you will drown in pussy juice.

Also you could level with these girls you're trying to pick up about writing the book and designing seminars. Ask them what they want to know and bang while you do your research

If you start this I will drop everything in the US and come back to be your assistant I think this would work so well

Dude you are like 15 years late. They already know this. There are numerous Russian media(written/video) that discusses how to mine men. Heck...Russian radio in NYC runs stories how they can scam USA and milk it once here.I used to think the Russian mob was clever..Ia m now convinced they just listen to Russian radio to learn their trade.
Seriously..here in glorious Brooklyn my wife overheard neighbors coming up with there latest get rich scheme,which included gov't benefits.Once a commie always a commie??Wheres Reagan now ,when you need him.

[Prosal]

(06-19-2013 07:58 PM)calihunter Wrote:  

Teach them

+1. FRom my experience, many girls enjoy when you take the role of a "teacher" - provided you do it without bragging. They enjoy the attention of an older and intelligent and experienced boyfriend or lover .... there are many types of female in Ukraine that all require different type of lubrication, but IMO with many of them (admittedly, not all) lubrication isn't necessarily in the form of luxury or money. Experience and intelligence go far - as romance and personality. Call me naive or beta, but I keep thinking that not all Ukrainian women are money-hungry bitches who solely enjoy the company of rude and oafish neanderthal guys.

[Prosal]

(06-19-2013 08:03 PM)calihunter Wrote:  

also http://lover.ru is the premiere pick up site in Russian for you to learn russian pickup from

Keep in mind that in Russia, the lack of "eligible" men is so blatant that it's the WOMEN who take classes for picking up (and keeping) men ))

http://rakovsky.ru/?s=15&d_id=128

How should a woman please a man. The Masterclass teaching hi-end oral sex:

[Bad Hussar]

(06-16-2013 09:46 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

...

Next Step:

Find a country I can say I'm from where she has no stereotype and that is not known for rich men. My first instinct is Colombia, but this has a drug stereotype (maybe she thinks I'm a drug lord)? Venezuela is probably a good bet since she won't know much about it.

Ideally it would be a country where there is a "romantic lover" type of stereotype that she has never experienced before. The goal is not to impress her, but to avoid being placed on the slow track while making her think there is not so much hope for a future.

You could try saying you're from South Africa. They would probably be a bit confused (But you're not black...) I'd guess they would not have very many preconceptions. Look up Leonardo di Caprio's character in "Blood Diamond" for an American interpretation of a wide-boy white South African English accent if you really want to go overboard.

Saying you're from Argentina may also work for you, but then I suppose you'd have to explain your perfect sounding, unhesitating, English. A small country she doesn't know much about, but which has English as an official language should be credible. Other African countries also fit this bill,but may be more difficult to explain your appearance.