[jimukr104]

"In any case it is important to give the Ukrainian girl the fraud impression that she has won that she has stripped you of a serious amount of your resources with very few in return while this is not true at all.These girls need to feel they win all the time and we the gentle knights give them this pleasure"

Clarify. From the angle of my understanding that is QUITE dangerous. They never will stop mining you once they see the possibility. The only way to WIN is to domesticate them with a strong hand. You must throw your hands down screaming "NYET" like you are STALIN re born. Power and dominance is ALL they understand. There's no middle ground. They don't believe in compromise.My 11th year anniversary is this month.I still rule the nest by being closed fisted and dominate.
To be honest Kiev and other 1st tier Ukrainian cities are bad for trying to learn how to game them. They often become something different than what a normal Ukrainian or Russian women will act like. That was true in 2001-2003 and No less true now I am sure.For example why settle for sushi when they ALL think there are mini oligarchs who will buy them Bently's?? of course most will never get the chance but part of their nature is to dream and LIVE the dream. That's what has always made Odessa suck(High lifestyle started in Odessa before kiev). They actually think they will either become rich or sink and hook a rich sponsor.

[rudebwoy]

Roosh - Are you recognized as the guy that was on TV?

[Roosh]

(06-16-2013 10:49 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

I have to say that Roosh paints a pretty grim picture of the dating scene in the Ukraine and the mentality of the women there. From my admittedly limited experiences in the Ukraine I would say that the mentality he describes applies to a certain type of Ukrainian girl but is not a net that should be cast over all Ukrainian women.

Yes the NAWALT argument is tempting because personally I have had two great experiences with Ukrainian women where they didn't trick or mine me for mineral.

If you send a man to war, you will tell him that the enemy is trying to kill him. This is not entirely true, because within the enemy are medics and truck drivers and so on, but you have to see them all as the enemy to protect yourself from those that have guns and really do want to shoot you.

You can't tell a guy to go into Ukraine hoping to just find a nice girl, because until he finds her, he will get burned very badly, enough that prevents him from finding the nice girl at all.

So we must take on the beliefs about Ukrainian culture that guard us against harm from the gun-toting enemy, and only when we find the medic, whose heart does not like killing, can we lower our guard just a bit (but even that can be quite dangerous).

We have to ask ourselves what the TYPICAL experience for a foreigner going into Ukraine will be, and that typical experience will include dealings with some hardcore extractors. You can sugarcoat this all you want by saying NAWALT, but the reality on the ground can be quite rough to a naive man. He must be prepared.

(06-16-2013 12:07 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

A common mistake the foreigners make is the logical calculation.The foreigner thinks reasonably and adds the sums.For example with 50$ spending on sushi I should at least get a BJ.Far from it.Ukrainian women think holisticslly they dislike at all the small calculating thinking.What matters are the intentions the whole psychic condition.For example if you pay 50 $ but you show the picture of a serious man totally subserved to the needs of his penis she will give you satisfaction. But if you spend 100 $ and want as a logical consequence the BJ because you calculated so you will get nothing.

I can see that, but this is something like "strong inner game" that comes only with extensive experience with Slavic women, as you have. For a guy coming for a vacation, he won't be able to deliver the subtlety.

(06-16-2013 06:08 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Roosh - Are you recognized as the guy that was on TV?

No.

[Eddie Morra]

I also think in general the 3 date rule applies to women here. You have to walk a fine line. First date may be coffee or tea at a cafe. Second date may be an ice cream and a walk in the park. Third date may be a few drinks at a bar or pub. No need to take them out for sushi and the whole dinner date thing. With each date, try to escalate. You can also gauge their interest and gold diggerness by what and how they order. Again you have to walk a fine line by not coming off as cheap, but also not to be taken for a sucker. One advantage we have as men is that we are the ones who are expected to take the lead and suggest, etc. not them.....By the third date you know whether or not you are going to get the goods. Hell even after the second date and sometimes after the first date....

[Vacancier Permanent]

Great insight as usual Roosh and everyone else about Ukraine in here. Roosh, I found your first post about the image that some nationalities portray to girls there very intriguing to say the least. Have you tried the Brazilian card? How are Brazilians seen there? On most of my trips, I use the Brazilian card and I've had so far positive receptions most everywhere. It's a country that is very positively seen worldwide, with positive images/associations attached to it from people around the world. Would be interesting to see you saying to girls that you're from Brazil, tell them a few stories/anecdotes from your personal experiences there and I'm sure they would eat that up quite nicely and you'd profit from it handsomely as well. Thoughts on that experiment?

[slubu]

Here are some preliminary thoughts after returning to Kiev last week from my September/October in 2012:

1. The iphones are invading. Whereas in the last trip I'd say 10-20% of girls had Iphones, now it is over 50% in just a few months. On a date last night, iphone was out. Over my shoulder there were 3 girls taking numerous photos for their instagrams. Walk up to hit on girls at the bar, both are on their iphones staring at it. I'm pretty amazed this happened in less than a year.

2. Girls are flaking a bit more, most likely because of #1.

3. I seriously think Kiev has the best looking women I've ever seen anywhere. I thought it was Russia but maybe I was wrong. I will find out for sure these next coming months.

4. I saw one girl I went out with last time who was very feminine now post on her facebook some crap about how it's ok for older girls to date younger guys and not to worry if they haven't found anyone yet.

5. I've gone out a lot less this time since I'm here longer and I have a semi-gf that won't leave me alone. So I've been out at night 3x gaming so far. Interactions have mostly been good and girls are receptive still. The 6-7 range I think is still easily bangable and you can do so the same night. But that's not what I came here for this time. Still it's hard to fight the temptation to not pursue something that comes so easily, but I'm trying.

6. I still love this city. Last night had a date with a very cute 18yo that seems very nice. It's progressing real slow (1st date after meeting, still no makeout even) but I'm not spending any money so don't mind.

7. Yesterday on Kreshatik we were watching 3 guys trying to do caveman game on the street. It was 100% game/PUA material stuff. They would stand on Kreshatik and when a girl walked by grab her and talk to her while escalating heavily. They were Ukrainian.

8. I've had at least 3 girls mention something about drinking too much. They are very sensitive to the guys here drinking too much.

9. Girls here get so jealous so fast. It's quite funny.

More to come...

[SirAntony]

I recently have been visiting Lviv. I have to say, that based on what I saw, there are a lot of young women (6-7) walking in the street that are kind of easy to approach to ask for directions, etc, but very hard to go further, specially if you don't speak Ukrainian or Russian. Also, I have to admit that my game still work-in-progress. I'd like to share my experience.

So, for me, what worked was to get a "wing girl" someone that introduce you friends and take you to places, but with the mindset that you two are just friends and she "knows you" from a safe spot. For example, the hotel you stay, a restaurant you go, etc. The point is that you need someone that helps you to get into the social circle, I preferred this to be a girl, because it puts you in the "safe spot" but maybe for you can work also to have a wing man .

I got my wing girl at the hotel I stayed (LH hotel) It was kind of easy to arrive and tell them I was in "business" and that it was a nice place. At the front desk I spotted a 22 years old, 6 for Ukrainian standards (8 for other places). I asked for things to do while in the city and she gave me the names of places to go (Metro, picazzo, opera, museums, etc) I asked her if she'd go with me, without any other intentions. She agreed and she introduced me to her friends, though me some Ukrainian words and gave tips on how to pick up girls,...it was very good.

Once you are in the dating stage, I have to agree, that depending on how fast you want things to evolve, you need to spend some money (coffee, meals, drinks, etc) Good thing is that food is relatively cheap, for example Italian food in Bianco Rosso for 2 with wine and desert will cost around 400krinas (50 USD) and it opens a lot of possibilities once the wine is finished (Ukrainianm girls seems to get drunk with not much alcohol and not knowing a lot about wine)

Regarding the wine, it worked for me to make a little bit of show by selecting a foreign wine that "you know" (go for a cheap one) and the girls gave the "ah you seem to know a lot about wine" =)

I think you have to position yourself as the non-rich, but foreigner with some means that is there to have some fun, make them be in the husband chasing stage, so things can progress a little bit faster. Also, they seem to be interested a lot in a guy that has traveled, so, from time to time trow some of your travel experiences, they love them. Once you are seen with some girls having fun, I think the rest is easier. It is very hard (at least for me) without speaking Ukrainian and with limited contacts to sleep with a girl before the 3 dates that was already mentioned here, but you need to push further in every date, actually the girls are used to be with very aggressive guys. Touching is very important, touch very often the lower back and every time lower...also, at least in lviv, girls don't want to be seen touching, kissing in public to much, so important to touch a lot quickly, if she refuses to that, then stop looking for her, maybe she call you later or not, most probably not, the girls are very proud and will not initiate contact typically. Also, get a live SIM card, so they can call you =)

I think if you choose wisely your "wing girl" you can have multiple girls at different stages in your pipeline. Also, yes, you have to be careful of girls only wanting money, but in my experience, not all of them are like that, specially if you know them from a group of people.

I was in Lviv 4 times each for a period of 1-2 weeks and at slept with 3 girls in regular basis, one of them a still in close contact, very very beautiful and nice girl. so overall it was not bad based on my limited experience.

Good luck everyone!

[Roosh]

Set monetary and time limits to your per-girl investment and then abide by them.

Ukraine is perceived differently by men of different game backgrounds. Take these two men:

Man #1. He has average game in DC and has to go on dinner dates in order to get laid. An average date with a 6 costs him $120, and even a date at a lounge isn't under $60. He gets laid on date 3 about half the time, spending around $300 total for the notch.

Man #2. He has above average game and has many one-night stands, which have required less than $20 investment in the girl. For his first date, he takes girls to a dive bar. In Thailand he can bang two girls a day for next to nothing, and they give him whatever he wants.

If man #1 comes to Ukraine, goes on three dinner dates with a girl, and gets the bang half the time with a girl much prettier than what he could get in DC, how will he perceive Ukraine? Very highly. Yet if the second man has to go on three dates, spending over $100 to get a bang half the time, he will complain and feel chafed. (Generally speaking, the easier the world poosy you've had, the less Ukraine will appeal to you.)

Each of us have our own limits based on our prior successes about how much we invest in a girl before we start feeling burned. You must establish these limits beforehand and accept that there will be investment losses where money and time was spent but you didn't get what you want. These limits must be reasonable enough that you don't give the girl the wrong idea that you're a moron, and all the while you must escalate the encounter to get the bang no later than the third date. There should be no anger or heartache on your part if a girl stayed under your limit but didn't put out. As long as you stick to your date sequence and funnel, you shouldn't even have to count your expenditure.

It is very difficult to get "free" bangs in Ukraine like in the States. I can't deny the potency of a weekend dinner date with a Ukrainian girl who is attracted to you. You will have to spend some money, especially since they equate spending with "confidence." But it shouldn't be excessive. Spending more doesn't get you more, unless you are going the sponsorship route.

My limits:

Club meet: one drink if we're partying and she's reciprocating my touch
First date: one or two drinks at a basic bar
Second date: simple dinner of my choice at a modest place (e.g. pizza or pasta)
Third date: one or two alcoholic drinks

This comes out to about $60 (including both of us). If by the end of date three I found out the girl has played me and doesn't intend to put out, I will walk it off, chalk it up to the game, and get the next girl lined up. This strategy, while not perfect, has led to bangs for me.

Set your limit and then have fun within those limits. Always Be Escalating and set up venue changes to your apartment at the end of dates, but don't be too concerned about her intentions otherwise.

[Roosh]

(06-16-2013 10:18 AM)DirectDanger Wrote:  

@Roosh

Is their any noticeable difference in the mentality of girls you meet at night clubs/bars compared with a girl you chat up during the day or does this type of behavior you describe go across all the women?

It depends on her age. If you meet an 18 year old shy girl on the street during the day, the behavior will be more muted. But if you meet a 25 year old, who has already 5+ years clubbing on her belt, she will have this behavior even though currently she isn't a party girl.

I've noticed how girls lie about their club frequency. They ALL say they barely go to clubs, even if you meet her in the club. The harder she plays the innocent route, the less she is.

[Akula]

(06-16-2013 04:58 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

They often become something different than what a normal Ukrainian or Russian women will act like. That was true in 2001-2003 and No less true now I am sure.For example why settle for sushi when they ALL think there are mini oligarchs who will buy them Bently's?? of course most will never get the chance but part of their nature is to dream and LIVE the dream. That's what has always made Odessa suck(High lifestyle started in Odessa before kiev). They actually think they will either become rich or sink and hook a rich sponsor.

I tell you, if it's like that in Kiev u can only imagine what it's like here in Moscow. Probalby 2-3x worse.

In the past four years after the crisis since I've been here it certainly seems to have gotten worse, at least incrementally. So many minigarchs running around that have all these girlfriends and who are willing to throw around their ill-gotten gains it's not even funny. $100+ oil for several years has put a lot of (corrupt) money in people's pockets and in true Russian fashion they are not afraid to spend it like it's going out of style.

And thus all the club girls think that their little minigarch with a Bentley is just right around the corner and will marry them someday, when the best they can really hope for really is to be sponsored. But it creates a perverse incentive whereby if you're a hot girl you're arguably better off just being sponsored by one or more dudes and getting all the free dinners, trips and other sh*t (as opposed to having a 'real' boyfriend). So they expectations for a 'regular guy' go through the roof. An expensive weekend here for a reasonably well-off expat is probably more than most of these girls make in a month, but since the bar has been raised and all these women know some rich guy or have a friend who's dating one the expectations are pretty high and fancy dinners don't even impress anymore.

[Greek kamaki]

Yes,time and money limits are important when dealing with Ukrainian girls.My limits are:
1.For average girl in province 50 $ spending
2.For good looking girl in province 100$ spending
3.For average girl in Kiev 150$.
4.For good looking girl in Kiev 300$.

[Greek kamaki]

(06-16-2013 04:58 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

"In any case it is important to give the Ukrainian girl the fraud impression that she has won that she has stripped you of a serious amount of your resources with very few in return while this is not true at all.These girls need to feel they win all the time and we the gentle knights give them this pleasure"

Clarify. From the angle of my understanding that is QUITE dangerous. They never will stop mining you once they see the possibility. The only way to WIN is to domesticate them with a strong hand. You must throw your hands down screaming "NYET" like you are STALIN re born. Power and dominance is ALL they understand. There's no middle ground. They don't believe in compromise.My 11th year anniversary is this month.I still rule the nest by being closed fisted and dominate.
To be honest Kiev and other 1st tier Ukrainian cities are bad for trying to learn how to game them. They often become something different than what a normal Ukrainian or Russian women will act like. That was true in 2001-2003 and No less true now I am sure.For example why settle for sushi when they ALL think there are mini oligarchs who will buy them Bently's?? of course most will never get the chance but part of their nature is to dream and LIVE the dream. That's what has always made Odessa suck(High lifestyle started in Odessa before kiev). They actually think they will either become rich or sink and hook a rich sponsor.

Pre 2003 era has nothing to do with the situation now.Back then it was much much better it was so good that it is difficult for newbies to comprehend.You just needed to bring there your glorious presence just presence was all the game needed.
The women came in hordes just to get the thrill of the western penis.

[jimukr104]

Greek it is no doubt worse now than pre 2003 but you have a tendency to down play that the mentality has not changed much. News flash......it was not that easy back then. We may think Ot was because it is better than now but most guys weren't getting laid ONS back then. You paint rosy pictures that were not the case. Heck. You and me probably even met back then. But I actually new the guys who were the best at the time and they still had trouble. Probably more ONs now then back then.
Sure we got more attention because being an outsider was COOL. But the girls still played the extract the mineral game. Maybe because you are so quick to give padaracks that you don't recognize the hardship that us non spenders had back then???now if you are talking about 1994-1999 then I would agree with you. The long term expats who o know who loved there that period all thought it was better.
The problem with your viewpoints is that it VERY heavy on buying chicks stuff and playing the rich foreigner. Roosh stated he wants advice on what works for normal chicks. If you actually think the inner game of the women has changed in the last decade you are not e periencing the true Slav as you think. Mentality is same but the chicks have reworked their outer game. After isreal the largest fsu population is here in NYC. The chicks are drs ,lawyers making 6 figures and they have the same mentality. On pof you will actually see local chicks who are American citizens from former fsu countries stating that they expect more than just coffee on meetings.
Part of the mentality is based on the

[rudebwoy]

Are there hordes of foreign men on the streets and in the bars?

[jimukr104]

Princess mentality where girls expect to be won over. But for some reason in Slavs from fsu it seems money is the medium to do so. Another thing they live in moment and think money is to be used for entertainment. I have relatives who lost savings in fsu and now they believe in spending every dime. This is the problem we have. They assume we are wealthier than locals so they expect our spending to scale up. This is nothing new. I used to hang with a French guy who lived in fsu since 1989. He claims it was same shit back then.
Local guys also have another advantage. The women truly want them. The guys can cAre less so we are second choice. But in the end they want igor,Artem and all those other guys. The more you actlike a local further you will get. I learned that early on. In fact with the black jackets I became a GOpnik lOl. At that point I did much better. Problem was I was still a wealthy foreigner and still had to be tested by spending. One way around this is to say your English teacher. Or peace corps. They then realize you not ultra wealthy. Ofcourse that can cause you to lose out on the hot club chicks. It's a balancing act.

For slubu are they with real I phones????curious how they can afford them. By chance you sure not android or fake iPhones???they even sold fake generic playstations I remember. My wife can't figure out how they can afford iPhones. If they are really buying 500 buck phOnes they must be getting sponsored. These girls already have webs set up. Vorkuta is right. You need to move away from the glitter of these chicks. Suburbs??

[worldwidetraveler]

(06-17-2013 11:24 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Princess mentality where girls expect to be won over. But for some reason in Slavs from fsu it seems money is the medium to do so. Another thing they live in moment and think money is to be used for entertainment. I have relatives who lost savings in fsu and now they believe in spending every dime. This is the problem we have. They assume we are wealthier than locals so they expect our spending to scale up. This is nothing new.

I remember talking with a guy who thought everyone in the states made 20k a month. heh

[The Fantasist]

(06-17-2013 11:05 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Greek it is no doubt worse now than pre 2003 but you have a tendency to down play that the mentality has not changed much. News flash......it was not that easy back then. We may think Ot was because it is better than now but most guys weren't getting laid ONS back then. You paint rosy pictures that were not the case. Heck. You and me probably even met back then. But I actually new the guys who were the best at the time and they still had trouble. Probably more ONs now then back then.
Sure we got more attention because being an outsider was COOL. But the girls still played the extract the mineral game. Maybe because you are so quick to give padaracks that you don't recognize the hardship that us non spenders had back then???now if you are talking about 1994-1999 then I would agree with you. The long term expats who o know who loved there that period all thought it was better.

Agreed.

I reckon I was in the Ukraine before anyone on this board pretty much. I touched down into a run down and fucked up Kiev in April 1993. I was walking along the Kreschatic before there was any neon on it. Were women throwing themselves at me? Haha, nope, unfortunately not. Did the waitresses in cafes slip me their numbers? Nope. Chamber maids in the Hotel Bratislava where I stayed ( room 606 I still remember that rock hard single bed )? Nope. Moscow was the same in 1993. It was easier than now but were women throwing themselves at me? Nope. It's a bit of a myth at just how easy it supposedly was. It was easier than now, 100%, I have some funny stories from those times but it wasn't the case that models were trying to seduce you for your passport. That is a myth. I know because I was there.

[The Fantasist]

(06-17-2013 11:07 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

Are there hordes of foreign men on the streets and in the bars?

Not exactly hordes, no. The thing is that the main street is the Kreschatic and you'll see foreigners there but it's not like Oxford Street in London where everyone is foreign. Clubs have foreigners in them but you can avoid them. You don't have to go very far from that street either Rudy before you are the only foreigner in the place and your value raises a little.

[Slavophile]

"science" link - Check this out:

Sociosexuality from Argentina to Zimbabwe: A 48-nation' study of sex, culture, and strategies of human mating

http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/curren...tt-ocr.pdf

"The partial correlation (controlling for sex) between consenting to sex after one month and responses to the SO1 within al-
most every nation was significant and positive. Exceptions included the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, and Ukraine."

"The first question asks how frequently the participant has attempted in the past to poach (i.e., romantically attract) another person's romantic partner. As seen in Table 2, the correlation between the frequency of mate poaching attempts and sociosexuality was positive in almost every culture. The only exception to this trend was the Ukraine."

[jimukr104]

(06-17-2013 12:30 PM)Slavophile Wrote:  

"science" link - Check this out:

Sociosexuality from Argentina to Zimbabwe: A 48-nation' study of sex, culture, and strategies of human mating

http://www.unl.edu/rhames/courses/curren...tt-ocr.pdf

"The partial correlation (controlling for sex) between consenting to sex after one month and responses to the SO1 within al-
most every nation was significant and positive. Exceptions included the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, and Ukraine."

"The first question asks how frequently the participant has attempted in the past to poach (i.e., romantically attract) another person's romantic partner. As seen in Table 2, the correlation between the frequency of mate poaching attempts and sociosexuality was positive in almost every culture. The only exception to this trend was the Ukraine."

sounds like the capital of BLUE BALLS

[Roosh]

Something I've repeatedly noticed are Ukrainian women who I would classify only in the 6 range getting into luxury autos, sometimes even driving them. If a 6 can snag a guy who can afford that, I'm sure girls who are hotter feel entitled to such a man as well, contributing to obstacles we generally attribute to Ukraine.

I also noticed this in Moldova. I would think how I wouldn't even buy such a girl a beer, yet this guy is wifing it up with his money and status.

[jimukr104]

lol

[jimukr104]

(06-17-2013 01:34 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 01:21 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

Something I've repeatedly noticed are Ukrainian women who I would classify only in the 6 range getting into luxury autos, sometimes even driving them. If a 6 can snag a guy who can afford that, I'm sure girls who are hotter feel entitled to such a man as well, contributing to obstacles we generally attribute to Ukraine.

I also noticed this in Moldova. I would think how I wouldn't even buy such a girl a beer, yet this guy is wifing it up with his money and status.

it could be the 6 earned the money from working hard. The less attractive women tend to work harder and make money either occupying high positions or running their own business. What often happens are those women become feminists lol.In Odessa it is common even in 2003 to see chicks who drive cars including expensive ones. The middle class was filled with women. That's part of the "I don't need a man" attitude that was present there .It makes sense that Kiev chicks would start achieving the same success. In Moscow they already have.In a way these women screw their own romantic lives up. If a women has money she expects a guy who has a bit more than her at the least. Often what happens is the successful women have very few choices for mates and end up being perpetually single. My wife's good friend is like that. Her sister also. Often these women cut their hair short in their late 20's and 30's and seem less feminine. They become the FSU version of a career women(feminists).You will notice most female business women have this common look as they age and make more money. The HOT rich chicks are usually pampered and spoiled by rich guys. They end up keeping their beauty and feminine ways longer. Most likely when you see a rich 8-9 its because she is with a guy who takes care of her, unless she is a high paid hooker. The high paid hookers make their cash in the EU.
Another think that was common,maybe not now, is that the wealthy minigarchs would go seek their beauty in the villages. They can get less spoiled women that way.Believe it or not but the rich in Kiev often will NOT marry a spoiled Kiev girl. Its funny because it even happens here in USA. Local Brooklyn Russians will actually advertise in Belarus etc to find a girl back in FSU than to date/marry spoiled FSU immigrants here. Every week on the Russian radio channels here they have some couple telling their story.

[Greek kamaki]

Ukrainian women achieve everything with their pussy.Degrees, jobs, money, husband, connections they use their pussy for everything. It is their only and most powerful weapon and they are highly skilled in its use.
So when you make an offer for this precious treasure you need to be serious at least.

[jimukr104]

(06-17-2013 11:28 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(06-17-2013 11:05 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Greek it is no doubt worse now than pre 2003 but you have a tendency to down play that the mentality has not changed much. News flash......it was not that easy back then. We may think Ot was because it is better than now but most guys weren't getting laid ONS back then. You paint rosy pictures that were not the case. Heck. You and me probably even met back then. But I actually new the guys who were the best at the time and they still had trouble. Probably more ONs now then back then.
Sure we got more attention because being an outsider was COOL. But the girls still played the extract the mineral game. Maybe because you are so quick to give padaracks that you don't recognize the hardship that us non spenders had back then???now if you are talking about 1994-1999 then I would agree with you. The long term expats who o know who loved there that period all thought it was better.

Agreed.

I reckon I was in the Ukraine before anyone on this board pretty much. I touched down into a run down and fucked up Kiev in April 1993. I was walking along the Kreschatic before there was any neon on it. Were women throwing themselves at me? Haha, nope, unfortunately not. Did the waitresses in cafes slip me their numbers? Nope. Chamber maids in the Hotel Bratislava where I stayed ( room 606 I still remember that rock hard single bed )? Nope. Moscow was the same in 1993. It was easier than now but were women throwing themselves at me? Nope. It's a bit of a myth at just how easy it supposedly was. It was easier than now, 100%, I have some funny stories from those times but it wasn't the case that models were trying to seduce you for your passport. That is a myth. I know because I was there.

You know I just realize something else that can cloud us FOGEY's view.Years ago we were younger and of course it was easier getting with younger women. One of the reasons it might be harder for the over 30 group is that they are still pursuing the young ones. In fact in the last decade one thing I have notice is even large age differences are NOT as acceptable or desirable as once was. There are even older FSU chicks willing and sometimes preferring to date younger guys..unheard of years ago.
For example I remember Wolverine(Russian born) was experimenting with VK.com. He thought it was pretty useless.Girls didn't really want to chat with people they didn't know ,regardless if foreign or not.Other guys reported the same thing. The girls on there don't seem to want foreign friends ,etc .BUT it seems younger RVF who are under 25 say they do ok on it. That tells me right there that they seem more trusting when there is not a large age difference(VK seems to be 90% under 23). Maybe if we were younger it would be like pre -2005.It is us that got older lol.