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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 03:27 PM
Quote: (06-14-2013 03:21 PM)Samseau Wrote:
Which industry are you talking about? The ones leaving America for foreign shores?
I'm talking about any industry which can't afford to pay minimum wage for an internship.
Are you trying to connect companies leaving america with being forced to pay workers minimum wage? If not I am unsure why you would even mention that.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 03:37 PM
This is probably gonna come off as ignorant, but if you're dumb enough to be doing actual work for free, it probably means you're low-hanging fruit and deserve to be exploited anyway.
In my life I've come to expect two things from employers: Knowledge, and money. If I'm not getting either one of those, then I bounce to another job where I can find either, hopefully both.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 03:43 PM
Quote: (06-14-2013 03:28 PM)Icepasian Wrote:
Employers seem to forget that their employees are also their customers, directly or indirectly, and how you treat them does matter. Yes, you can shortchange your employees and make a higher profit but when everyone else is doing it too, all you're doing is sapping the buying power of your customers and thus lowering the amount they can spend on your products. Henry Ford had this epiphany back when he was building his company.
Not directed at anyone, but it is funny how many conservatives lament people receiving government handouts but at the same time look for every possible opportunity to refuse to pay these same people a livable wage so they don't need handouts to prevent themselves from starving to death.
If you don't want people to rely on the government, you have to pay them for work.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 03:47 PM
Quote: (06-14-2013 03:37 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:
This is probably gonna come off as ignorant, but if you're dumb enough to be doing actual work for free, it probably means you're low-hanging fruit and deserve to be exploited anyway.
So now you agree unpaid internships are dumb?
Which is it?
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 03:52 PM
Quote: (06-14-2013 03:37 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:
This is probably gonna come off as ignorant, but if you're dumb enough to be doing actual work for free, it probably means you're low-hanging fruit and deserve to be exploited anyway.
In my life I've come to expect two things from employers: Knowledge, and money. If I'm not getting either one of those, then I bounce to another job where I can find either, hopefully both.
Remember, the concept of the unpaid intern was initially targeted at students - young people that had no experience, but were interested in getting real-world experience that they could use in the future. It was basically an extracurricular that looked good on the college applications, and if you were already in college, for the resume when you were entering the job market. They were foregoing salary for knowledge that would help them in the future. I wouldn't categorize them as low-hanging fruit that deserve exploitation. I think the corporate world perhaps expanded the potential pool to desperate adults already in the job market they could get free labor from, in exchange for a resume boost that hopefully led to a better job down the line and hopefully a reference.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 04:56 PM
Anyone who's got skills and is doing well for now should know that the machines and unpaid interns are coming for them too.
These unpaid internships are bullshit.
They are another way for the fuckwads who do no work to make more and the people who do the work to get less.
I can see a tryout in a kitchen. I can see a tryout on a piece of equipment/machinery. Unpaid office work is utter bullshit. WTF are they trying out for? Shuffling papers? Fuck that.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 05:32 PM
Quote: (06-14-2013 04:56 PM)JimNortonFan Wrote:
Anyone who's got skills and is doing well for now should know that the machines and unpaid interns are coming for them too.
These unpaid internships are bullshit.
They are another way for the fuckwads who do no work to make more and the people who do the work to get less.
I can see a tryout in a kitchen. I can see a tryout on a piece of equipment/machinery. Unpaid office work is utter bullshit. WTF are they trying out for? Shuffling papers? Fuck that.
Yeah. That was essentially what the judge said in his decision. Unpaid interns essentially do menial labor and get precisely zero education or job training they couldn't get from a minimum wage secretary job. It's a ponzi scheme designed to take advantage of kids who don't know any better. Anyone who talks about how this is critical to American business's survival is either insane or thinks that all corporate types are soulless abominations.
http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post=...2f29d2e01c
Quote:Quote:
"Undoubtedly Mr. Glatt and Mr. Footman received some benefits from their internships, such as résumé listings, job references and an understanding of how a production office works," Judge William Pauley wrote. "But those benefits were incidental to working in the office like any other employees and were not the result of internships intentionally structured to benefit them."
The judge pointed to rules set by the Department of Labor that say unpaid internships should not be to the immediate advantage of the employer, that their work must be similar to vocational training given in an educational environment, and that the experience must be for the benefit of the intern and the intern’s work must not displace that of regular employees.
Also, what the fuck?
Quote:Quote:
While that was standard procedure pre-recession, unpaid interns in a weak job market have been far less patient with the process. In February 2012, a former Harper’s Bazaar intern sued Hearst Magazines, saying she regularly clocked 40 to 55 hours a week without being paid. Her claim is now a class-action suit that includes unpaid interns who worked in the company’s magazines division since February 2009.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 05:38 PM
I'm with thedude on this, at least for what he would use it for. I think there is a huge difference between a couple days or week "Tryout" and a three-month summer internship.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 05:54 PM
LOL at the people who think this will help people from being exploited.
Before, kids could get experience in the real world.
Now they're just gonna turn into bums because no one will hire them. Unpaid internships ONLY exist because these companies are doing the kids a favor; no one needs them, they are totally worthless trash.
This is a huge victory for the democrats because their welfare ranks will swell.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 06:10 PM
Once upon a time I wanted to be an audio engineer in film and TV.
The entertainment industry is a complete joke with its interns. I interned with a mixer, but ended up doing bitch work and errands.
He was at least good enough to hook me up with gas money, but I for one am happy to see these all go.
In the entertainment industry and well heck even finance as well where there are so many people pinning for making it big, you can easily exploit the stupid people.
The government is involved because they are missing out on tax revenue.
To the studios that use paid interns to save money, I hope you go under.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 06:21 PM
No worries, unpaid internships alive and well at el-mechs auto shop.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 06:36 PM
This law is actually a good thing, it breaks the prisoner's dilemma that is going on between job seekers. If one person worked an unpaid internship at a good job and the other didn't, the person who did would be significantly better off in the long run. But what happens with PD games is that over time everyone sees the this strategy and adjusts to it. So what ends up happening is everyone ends up doing an unpaid internship because not doing one is so damaging to ones career prospects. But all this does over time is increase the problems and lowers the future payouts from non-cooperation. And this conflict just creates more and more benefits for the 3rd party who is not part of this conflict, e.g. the private companies. Hence why almost every long term PD game ends in cooperation since payouts decrease to the point that cooperating has a better payout than continuing to fight.
The other part of the argument to keep unpaid internships is that the change in price of the interns from nothing to something will result in less jobs overall. This means that the value of the work produced is less than minimum wage + other costs (training, equip, etc.). Yes some people would not be hired but this is bullshit overall. Most work would have been done regardless if it was free or not that's why money and time is spent hiring someone. But, going back to the above dynamic, if you can get smart people working for free to pad their resume, why pay someone?
Really, if a business can't afford to pay an intern minimum wage, this is an organization that is poorly run or an internship that a student shouldn't be willing to forgo earnings for. I mean Hollywood studios can throw a bone to a dude just out of college with no money. And thats the other reason which makes unpaid internships unreasonable, it favor people that can work for free which are rich kids on average. The ones who desperately need the money, will have to take a job outside their field sometimes.
And that leads to my last point if you pay people anything, you increase the amount of people that will apply for an internship which will lead to better candidates since they didn't have to turn down another option to work for free. I worked in an smaller market research firm at one point precisely because they paid 12 bucks an hour for their interns.
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 07:06 PM
Quote: (06-14-2013 05:54 PM)Samseau Wrote:
LOL at the people who think this will help people from being exploited.
Before, kids could get experience in the real world.
Now they're just gonna turn into bums because no one will hire them. Unpaid internships ONLY exist because these companies are doing the kids a favor; no one needs them, they are totally worthless trash.
This is a huge victory for the democrats because their welfare ranks will swell.
Kids who graduate college and do not yet have work experience are trash? And by paying people money welfare ranks swell and by not paying them welfare rates shrink?
Seriously?
Isn't paying people for doing work a part of capitalism? (Hence shouldn't conservatives be for this?)
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The Death of the Unpaid Internship
06-14-2013, 07:24 PM
There's plenty of blame to go around here.
The Millennials think they are entitled to a fun job with flexible hours, lots of vacation and high pay.
The employers want to repeal the 13th amendment.
Wall Street demands that profitable companies become more profitable. Easiest way to do that is to trim labor costs.
Education system abandoned character education, making the first issue worse.
Education system teaches cultural Marxism ahead of knowledge and skills.
Millennials never learned anything in school because they gamed the education system.
Cold War is over so The System does not need the loyalty of the masses.
Technology is automating jobs higher and higher on the IQ ladder every day.