[ZonZon]

Quote:

I agree with this 100%.
There's a good chance shes getting regular action from a local guy while she's dating her potential to be husband (you).
Nothing with women is as it seems.
If she's avoiding physical escalation i would withdraw.

NORMALLY, and certainly if I read the synopsis, I would say the SAME THING if I were you. But, I was there ... There was no other man, for sure. It was something different. That's not to say all is perfect! I am blind. It just is to say: hmmmm. She remains a mystery to me. And, its not over until I say so. At least that is the way I see it. When I go out for fun, I am very FAST and very effective and don't give one single shit. The second half of my time in Ukraine was different. Remember, I was there a while. I met and spent time with here entire family often. I did not begin to pressure her. I worked. I traveled, I made her wonder about me too. Even when I try not to, I am still gaming a little. Habits are hard to break.

On this point ... WE WILL SEE.

[ZonZon]

Quote:

I didn't read the whole thread since i'm short on time but I think you guys are being too negative now

I was going to comment on this point, but I am new here and do not understand the culture of this board. I certainly do not want to come off as a "preacher."

Game to me is simply "self improvement" targeted to communication skills with women. I can understand that guys are anxious to get laid, especially young guys, or normal guys in the USA, and especially older guys in first world countries - and that means anybody over 30 jajajaja. But, after you get that itch scratched, the application of game has to merge with deeper human skills in order to avoid being untrue to yourself as well as the people you meet.

Women in Ukraine are tough because they HAVE to be. The country gets GOD DAMN cold. Ukraine is a country where you are charged extra for ketchup on a sandwich. For most people, every penny matters. The people CAN BE kind, but the society is heartless (learn about the Great Starvation when people we forced to eat other people's children, and imagine the deep affect this has on a society.) Many woman, especially in the East are raised in orphanages. At the age of 16 they are "kicked out". Without a address they can not find employment. A difficult situation for a 16 year old to find themselves I think.

[Blunt]

(10-02-2012 04:10 AM)tiggaling Wrote:  

I watched a video of sashadaygame in Romania, and he said, once you have been to Russia you are fucked and I can pretty much concur.
Problem is, in most countries, the females just don't compare, it is hard to be really interested. At least for me, I find that.

[Gaston]

(10-02-2012 06:58 AM)ZonZon Wrote:  

Ukraine is a country where you are charged extra for ketchup on a sandwich.

They also charge for slices of bread. And not just there, but pretty much everywhere around. And when you think about it logically, why not? Are ketchup and bread free commodities? Do they grow on public trees from which a restaurant worker plucks em and bring them to us? We've been spoiled by low-level American gimmicks (that led to the present ever-glutonious state(s), that we often even don't question our own assumptions.

(10-02-2012 06:58 AM)ZonZon Wrote:  

For most people, every penny matters. The people CAN BE kind, but the society is heartless (learn about the Great Starvation when people we forced to eat other people's children, and imagine the deep affect this has on a society.) Many woman, especially in the East are raised in orphanages. At the age of 16 they are "kicked out". Without a address they can not find employment. A difficult situation for a 16 year old to find themselves I think.

All that may be true-ish in theory, but more often than not it really doesn't apply to the girl you are dealing with. So I'd be wary accepting any of their sob stories at face value. As a personal rule, anywhere in the world, I never listen, let alone accept sob stories. Period. If they ever start that shit I immediately and rudely am changing the subject. I tell them that I want us to concentrate on present (if they are talking about past) or future (if they are talking about present). Or, if we are by ourselves, I start unzipping my fly. That way they learn a) they can't bullshit me and manipulate me in such manner b) any kind of possible respect she has to earn on my terms. Best is not even to bother with any possible types that might resort to that. That's why I prefer more straight-shooter countries.

[RebelLibertarian]

(10-01-2012 04:46 PM)Wolverine Wrote:  

(10-01-2012 03:39 PM)brianmark Wrote:  

You nailed it on the head that these girls are not honest. It is no coincidence that FSU supplies more prostitutes around the world than almost any counties.

[...]

Those "prostitutes" are a victim of circumstance. I guarantee you half of them have a higher education that is not recognised in western countries and doesnt allow them to forge a proper career.

Truth, but there's more [not to hijack the thread, but this info is important and further justifies distrust of foreigners]: many (especially in the 90s) were tricked into going abroad with promises of legitimate jobs, whereupon they were captured by their pimps, drugged, etc. The trade was rampant in Israel in particular (many Soviet Jews left the USSR in the 70s and 80s for Israel, and Russian Gentiles believed promises of good jobs teaching these Russian-speaking Jews). See http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/russia.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_traff..._in_Israel

(10-01-2012 04:46 PM)Wolverine Wrote:  

Western men come to the FSU knowing they can exploit a girls position of financial dependence and want of a better life elsewhere instead of earning her attraction through a natural courtship based on looks and personality. And you really feel sorry for the fat guy?
I walked away praying he gets burnt by her.

If you had to spend 5 years married to a socially retarted obese woman to escape poverty you would be very bitter my friend.

Its not cool being exploited in any capacity. You would become the scammer.

Yup. Plus, she's deprived of her physically-best years, and, if she becomes pregnant, her DNA will likely be adulterated with that of a left-third-of-the-bell-curve type.

[brianmark]

(10-02-2012 09:01 AM)Gaston Wrote:  

All that may be true-ish in theory, but more often than not it really doesn't apply to the girl you are dealing with. So I'd be wary accepting any of their sob stories at face value. As a personal rule, anywhere in the world, I never listen, let alone accept sob stories. Period. If they ever start that shit I immediately and rudely am changing the subject. I tell them that I want us to concentrate on present (if they are talking about past) or future (if they are talking about present). Or, if we are by ourselves, I start unzipping my fly. That way they learn a) they can't bullshit me and manipulate me in such manner b) any kind of possible respect she has to earn on my terms. Best is not even to bother with any possible types that might resort to that. That's why I prefer more straight-shooter countries.

How long did you spend in the Ukraine? At least you're not planning on going over and save them. The more time you spend there you learn that it's not about saving the poor Ukrainians. It's about adapting to play by their rules so you can make things happen!

[rover]

(10-01-2012 04:46 PM)Wolverine Wrote:  

Those "prostitutes" are a victim of circumstance. I guarantee you half of them have a higher education that is not recognised in western countries and doesnt allow them to forge a proper career.

Not everything is as you see on the surface.

And those "scamming" women are using men in the same way that men are using them.

Western men come to the FSU knowing they can exploit a girls position of financial dependence and want of a better life elsewhere instead of earning her attraction through a natural courtship based on looks and personality.

Today i left kiev and at Borisopol airport i saw a beautiful 20 something girl crying while her 40 something fat bald american to be husband was bear hugging her. She was crying as she was forced into letting this creature touch her for the next 3 years just so she could get out of the Ukraine.

And you really feel sorry for the fat guy?
I walked away praying he gets burnt by her.

If you had to spend 5 years married to a socially retarted obese woman to escape poverty you would be very bitter my friend.

Its not cool being exploited in any capacity. You would become the scammer.

She is making a choice, no one has a gun to her head, stop feeling sorry for these girls. For all we know, those could have been the tears of joy of finally being able to get out of FSU. If she is really hot and smart, she can ditch her husband in no time once she settles in the US, eventually move her parents over and if the husband is a complete idiot, get a good chunk of his assets in the process. And all she has to do is spread her legs once in a while.

Ukraine is not a dirt poor country, there is plenty of choice, not to mention they can easily move around and find work in neighboring countries like Russia. You may call it "exploitation", I call it supply and demand, like everywhere else in the world. Those girls who are lucky enough to marry a fat bald american think they got a much better deal anyway, - and they are usually right.

[Spike]

(10-02-2012 06:58 AM)ZonZon Wrote:  

Quote:

I didn't read the whole thread since i'm short on time but I think you guys are being too negative now

I was going to comment on this point, but I am new here and do not understand the culture of this board. I certainly do not want to come off as a "preacher."

Game to me is simply "self improvement" targeted to communication skills with women. I can understand that guys are anxious to get laid, especially young guys, or normal guys in the USA, and especially older guys in first world countries - and that means anybody over 30 jajajaja. But, after you get that itch scratched, the application of game has to merge with deeper human skills in order to avoid being untrue to yourself as well as the people you meet.

Women in Ukraine are tough because they HAVE to be. The country gets GOD DAMN cold. Ukraine is a country where you are charged extra for ketchup on a sandwich. For most people, every penny matters. The people CAN BE kind, but the society is heartless (learn about the Great Starvation when people we forced to eat other people's children, and imagine the deep affect this has on a society.) Many woman, especially in the East are raised in orphanages. At the age of 16 they are "kicked out". Without a address they can not find employment. A difficult situation for a 16 year old to find themselves I think.

Not sure how this was connected to my post but i reply anyway. My opinion hasn't changed. Russia gets freakishly cold also, in winter it's between -30 to minus -70. The great starvation in Ukraine was in the 1930's (correct me if i'm wrong) and people in Russia suffered equally under soviet repression unless you were a high ranking party member.

Life is tough in these countries, doesn't mean the girls aren't pick upable or only when lots of money is used. You can't just use history as an example of the nature of people. That's a bit like Kamaki (a forum member) with his vikings and Balkan power theories. There are shitloads of countries where people suffered a lot. Look at Cambodia and Vietnam, the massacres there are only one generation away yet the people there are superfriendly and not only for the almighty dollar.

[BigAlexBoss]

Rover, remember Wolf comes at if from a different angle - he is half Ukrainian and thus justifiably annoyed with western love tourists such as myself posting up in his country and trying to pillage the women LOL.

[Spike]

(10-02-2012 02:39 PM)rover Wrote:  

(10-01-2012 04:46 PM)Wolverine Wrote:  

Those "prostitutes" are a victim of circumstance. I guarantee you half of them have a higher education that is not recognised in western countries and doesnt allow them to forge a proper career.

Not everything is as you see on the surface.

And those "scamming" women are using men in the same way that men are using them.

Western men come to the FSU knowing they can exploit a girls position of financial dependence and want of a better life elsewhere instead of earning her attraction through a natural courtship based on looks and personality.

Today i left kiev and at Borisopol airport i saw a beautiful 20 something girl crying while her 40 something fat bald american to be husband was bear hugging her. She was crying as she was forced into letting this creature touch her for the next 3 years just so she could get out of the Ukraine.

And you really feel sorry for the fat guy?
I walked away praying he gets burnt by her.

If you had to spend 5 years married to a socially retarted obese woman to escape poverty you would be very bitter my friend.

Its not cool being exploited in any capacity. You would become the scammer.

She is making a choice, no one has a gun to her head, stop feeling sorry for these girls. For all we know, those could have been the tears of joy of finally being able to get out of FSU. If she is really hot and smart, she can ditch her husband in no time once she settles in the US, eventually move her parents over and if the husband is a complete idiot, get a good chunk of his assets in the process. And all she has to do is spread her legs once in a while.

Ukraine is not a dirt poor country, there is plenty of choice, not to mention they can easily move around and find work in neighboring countries like Russia. You may call it "exploitation", I call it supply and demand, like everywhere else in the world. Those girls who are lucky enough to marry a fat bald american think they got a much better deal anyway, - and they are usually right.

I agree with this. It's the same in South East Asia. For example in the Phillipines. Girls there can earn a 100 pesos a day (2.5 dollar)working in some store and be poor but remain a good girl or make a between 700 to 1500 pesos for a few hours with some fat white guy or even more with an Asian 333.
First girls lives a poor life but keeps her dignity/pride etc etc
Second girl wants to have nice dresses and a iphone.

And yes, a lot of times its their own family pushing them into the prostitution. Sometimes its just a short time thing to pay some (medical) bills/gambling debt. Most of the times its convenient for the whole family to have money pouring in.

[alphascout]

Ukraine salaries are not that low, and particularly not as low as stated in the official UN OECD numbers.

you need to understand that people in Ukraine don't trust the government at all. Salaries are paid - believe it or not even in large multinational corporations - in manila envelopes. The "average salaries" that appear in the official statistics are basically the salaries earned by cops, doctors, etc... over the table. All these professions also take "bribes" under the table, and most corporations operate under the table. Just walk around Kyiv and Bratislava, and tell me which capital do you think has more money?

Its just how things get done/part of the culture, not every country is so trusting of government officials not being corrupt like in America/Europe.

[alphascout]

Also, from what i've heard, FSU women see themselves as in high demand. Think about it, men from all over the world come to the FSU to try to meet them and they are well aware of the fact. They see American and other women in the world as being deficient, since men from these countries come to try to marry them. Plus the American, etc... women that come to Ukraine and prove them right certainly doesn't help the cause.

basically, they know they have very high value in the dating world, but also know that their market value drops off quick.

[the_conductor]

I know Ukraine is a very poor country and all, but do the members that have been there or to other FSU countries have any experience with the middle/upper class girls that have enough on their own and don't need to leech the $$ from you?

Or is it that you need fluent Russian/Ukrainian to get a shot at those girls; or that they aren't looking for, or might even avoid foreigners cause they don't want to be viewed as low class gold diggers, prefer well-to-do locals, or don't hang out in the places/clubs that foreigners go to?

It's been said that in some SA countries you need to be fluent with the local language and actively avoid the gringo spots and clubs to get with the girls higher on the social ladder, and not have to weed through the passport hunters and such. The same can be said for SEA, though the language requirement is not so stringent as many girls have passable English. In fact, I have a theory that this basically holds true for any 3rd world country.

I know it's harder to judge, cause fewer guys have decent Russian than Spanish/Portuguese, and thus are basically limited to the gringo scene, but is it the same for Ukraine/FSU too?

Cause I've heard too many ignorant expats anywhere claim "all the girls here are prostitutes or gold diggers who only want your money" when they are in fact in their own expat bubble and only come in contact with a self-selecting group of girls who want to leech off them, never meeting the middle class girls who do exist, although in fewer numbers.

[alphascout]

^ my experience is that if a girl sees that you dont have lots of money, she won't try to milk you and will appreciate even the smalest of gestures. but if the same girl sees that you're rich, she expects you to pay for everthing/will order the most expensive thing on the menu, invite her friends and expect you to pay, etc.

its relative really

[rover]

(10-02-2012 05:52 PM)the_conductor Wrote:  

I know Ukraine is a very poor country and all, but do the members that have been there or to other FSU countries have any experience with the middle/upper class girls that have enough on their own and don't need to leech the $$ from you?

Or is it that you need fluent Russian/Ukrainian to get a shot at those girls; or that they aren't looking for, or might even avoid foreigners cause they don't want to be viewed as low class gold diggers, prefer well-to-do locals, or don't hang out in the places/clubs that foreigners go to?

It's been said that in some SA countries you need to be fluent with the local language and actively avoid the gringo spots and clubs to get with the girls higher on the social ladder, and not have to weed through the passport hunters and such. The same can be said for SEA, though the language requirement is not so stringent as many girls have passable English. In fact, I have a theory that this basically holds true for any 3rd world country.

Conductor, it's the same as in SA: middle/upper class girls in FSU living comfortable life generally won't give an average gringo the time of day. Their ideal catch is a local rich guy with good looks and connections (Moscow/Kiev have plenty of local millionaires/billionaires), a known actor, a musician etc. You need to speak decent Russian, have someone introduce you, and have some sort of a "legitimate reason" to be there - i.e. on business or something. Which is not to say it's impossible to date them, especially if your game is good, but it's that much harder.

I don't think they generally go out of their way to avoid all foreigners but they care about the image within their social circle, so they'll want something they can impress their friends with: good looks, great personality, money etc.

[jimukr104]

(10-02-2012 05:52 PM)the_conductor Wrote:  

I know Ukraine is a very poor country and all, but do the members that have been there or to other FSU countries have any experience with the middle/upper class girls that have enough on their own and don't need to leech the $$ from you?

Or is it that you need fluent Russian/Ukrainian to get a shot at those girls; or that they aren't looking for, or might even avoid foreigners cause they don't want to be viewed as low class gold diggers, prefer well-to-do locals, or don't hang out in the places/clubs that foreigners go to?

It's been said that in some SA countries you need to be fluent with the local language and actively avoid the gringo spots and clubs to get with the girls higher on the social ladder, and not have to weed through the passport hunters and such. The same can be said for SEA, though the language requirement is not so stringent as many girls have passable English. In fact, I have a theory that this basically holds true for any 3rd world country.

I know it's harder to judge, cause fewer guys have decent Russian than Spanish/Portuguese, and thus are basically limited to the gringo scene, but is it the same for Ukraine/FSU too?

Cause I've heard too many ignorant expats anywhere claim "all the girls here are prostitutes or gold diggers who only want your money" when they are in fact in their own expat bubble and only come in contact with a self-selecting group of girls who want to leech off them, never meeting the middle class girls who do exist, although in fewer numbers.

Ok, I will try to answer that question as best I can. I worked with ALOT of Ukrainians that were rich, I mean filthy rich. In kiev most girls if they are rich are basically married to a rich local. You got to understand only 2 cities in Ukraine have a large middle class, both Odessa and Kiev. Odessa had a middleclass for over 150 years while kievs is quite new. problem is with money comes status and Russian girls therefore need t ofind a guy with more status than they do. A foreighner can't give thme that status so they basically only see k locals. the middleclass girls wh o speak English and are well trveled and are middle class wh ohave jobs that put them in contact with foreighners might date expats. My wife was such a local, she managed a European supermarket personnel dept. However, i have t o assume the sex tourists have made them more annoyed at foreighners? or since they are financially stable they don'tneed a passport? i do not know. But I would assume unless they WANT something from you, they will not give up pussy easy. After all they are the top of society in a poor country. they have more qualifiers in men than a normal girl. Moscow is such a place with alot of money. But a metropolitan area of over 10 million is destined to have a small liberal more western mentality miniority. Heck they even have alternative lifestyles clubs there. I do not see this in Ukraine.
A question I kind of have is why is everyone obsesseed with kiev over Moscow? 10 years ago i had a choice ,i choose to work in Kiev because it was more unknown ,adventurous, and i wanted the rockstar vibe. Also salary allowed me t osave more based on cost of living. Back then we needed visa and invite letter same as russia. Thing is everyone goes now because no visa. No visa was the worst thing for foreighners possible ,it allowed lazy backpackers and sex tourists to take over. I always figured anyone wh o wanted IN so bad can afford the hoops. Now its a shell of its former glory ,However ,Moscow seems to have kept out the sex tourists. it also has over 5 mil girls i n the area and more % of english speakers. yes its expensive but so is Kiev. Theres got to be a reason my ex manager transferred fro mKiev to Moscow and hasn't left yet

[brianmark]

(10-02-2012 06:19 PM)alphascout Wrote:  

^ my experience is that if a girl sees that you dont have lots of money, she won't try to milk you and will appreciate even the smalest of gestures. but if the same girl sees that you're rich, she expects you to pay for everthing/will order the most expensive thing on the menu, invite her friends and expect you to pay, etc.

its relative really

If they really like you they won't try to use the hell out of you. Many will try to test you to see what they can get away with.

(10-02-2012 05:32 PM)alphascout Wrote:  

Also, from what i've heard, FSU women see themselves as in high demand. Think about it, men from all over the world come to the FSU to try to meet them and they are well aware of the fact. They see American and other women in the world as being deficient, since men from these countries come to try to marry them. Plus the American, etc... women that come to Ukraine and prove them right certainly doesn't help the cause.

basically, they know they have very high value in the dating world, but also know that their market value drops off quick.

This was the problem BigAlexBoss encountered. The beautiful girls have tons of options. I just wrote a blogpost about this subject.

http://partytravelsexlove.com/2012/10/02...-get-real/

Maybe you met some of these sweet girls.

[alphascout]

(10-03-2012 12:23 AM)brianmark Wrote:  

(10-02-2012 06:19 PM)alphascout Wrote:  

^ my experience is that if a girl sees that you dont have lots of money, she won't try to milk you and will appreciate even the smalest of gestures. but if the same girl sees that you're rich, she expects you to pay for everthing/will order the most expensive thing on the menu, invite her friends and expect you to pay, etc.

its relative really

If they really like you they won't try to use the hell out of you. Many will try to test you to see what they can get away with.

(10-02-2012 05:32 PM)alphascout Wrote:  

Also, from what i've heard, FSU women see themselves as in high demand. Think about it, men from all over the world come to the FSU to try to meet them and they are well aware of the fact. They see American and other women in the world as being deficient, since men from these countries come to try to marry them. Plus the American, etc... women that come to Ukraine and prove them right certainly doesn't help the cause.

basically, they know they have very high value in the dating world, but also know that their market value drops off quick.

This was the problem BigAlexBoss encountered. The beautiful girls have tons of options. I just wrote a blogpost about this subject.

http://partytravelsexlove.com/2012/10/02...-get-real/

Maybe you met some of these sweet girls.

girl in the bikini (first pic) and blonde oiling the car look like 2 girls i was with (albeit dolled up for a photoshoot). neither of them pretended to be traditional girls seeking positions as 1940s housewives.

I'm in my late twenties so maybe its different, but for old guys the only ones i saw with success not paying alot where the guys focusing on single mothers, which can still be pretty nice in FSU countries. to quote one of the older dudes, "they need to be dependent on you or they will leave you when they get back to the US". i think hes basically right.

the reality is that top tier women anywhere in the world have access to the global rich jetsetter guys and local rich/high status guys, driving up their value. very rich guys and local high status guys can travel anywhere in the country on a whim. the only exception is if the perfect 10 girl lives say in a village and never went to the city, just turned 18, and don;t have any pics up on the internet.

[Spike]

(10-02-2012 08:54 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(10-02-2012 05:52 PM)the_conductor Wrote:  

A question I kind of have is why is everyone obsesseed with kiev over Moscow? 10 years ago i had a choice ,i choose to work in Kiev because it was more unknown ,adventurous, and i wanted the rockstar vibe. Also salary allowed me t osave more based on cost of living. Back then we needed visa and invite letter same as russia. Thing is everyone goes now because no visa. No visa was the worst thing for foreighners possible ,it allowed lazy backpackers and sex tourists to take over. I always figured anyone wh o wanted IN so bad can afford the hoops. Now its a shell of its former glory ,However ,Moscow seems to have kept out the sex tourists. it also has over 5 mil girls i n the area and more % of english speakers. yes its expensive but so is Kiev. Theres got to be a reason my ex manager transferred fro mKiev to Moscow and hasn't left yet

Jimukr104

A visa never stopped a backpacker from visiting the country.

Whats wrong with being a backpacker in the Ukraine? Don't whine because poor guys take the women while you have to throw money around. Did it occur to you that backpackers can get girls because some of them are generally cool people to hang out with in contradiction to snobby expats who boast about their jobs/money or whore mongering sex tourists?
I'm not bashing expats because there are cool ones with interesting lives but most are boasters with a beergut.
Not all girls are money hungry, some find an adventurous guy more interesting then money.

Not all backpackers are dirty guys with dreadlocks who travel with pots and pans.

[Spike]

People here seem to focus too much on big famous/known cities and blame those cities for thier misfortune. Get of the beaten track if you want to be a popular wanted guy somewhere.

[brianmark]

(10-03-2012 04:37 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

People here seem to focus too much on big famous/known cities and blame those cities for thier misfortune. Get of the beaten track if you want to be a popular wanted guy somewhere.

I would have to agree with you 100%. When I go to Russia, I will make my base in a second or third tier city. Unless I have a job in Moscow, I would think Moscow would be a bad place to try and compete with the locals. Top girls will have a ton of options there.

As far as the Ukraine goes, I think Odessa is an overplayed city, which gets lots of men looking for wives or girlfriends.

[ZonZon]

Great Feedback all.

I lived in Medellin earlier in the year for a couple months. I am an older guy, but can dance well and run game well at night. Something has changed in Medellin over the last 2 years. Everybody must "up their game" to get that which used to be easy. (unless you are in El Centro with poor barrio girls).

In Ukraine, I realized I had to up my game even more and get the hell out of the big cities and well traveled locations.

I guess it is best to say that some places are best for play and others are more of a challenge / or seeking only one.

[brianmark]

(10-03-2012 01:28 AM)alphascout Wrote:  

(10-03-2012 12:23 AM)brianmark Wrote:  

(10-02-2012 06:19 PM)alphascout Wrote:  

^ my experience is that if a girl sees that you dont have lots of money, she won't try to milk you and will appreciate even the smalest of gestures. but if the same girl sees that you're rich, she expects you to pay for everthing/will order the most expensive thing on the menu, invite her friends and expect you to pay, etc.

its relative really

If they really like you they won't try to use the hell out of you. Many will try to test you to see what they can get away with.

(10-02-2012 05:32 PM)alphascout Wrote:  

Also, from what i've heard, FSU women see themselves as in high demand. Think about it, men from all over the world come to the FSU to try to meet them and they are well aware of the fact. They see American and other women in the world as being deficient, since men from these countries come to try to marry them. Plus the American, etc... women that come to Ukraine and prove them right certainly doesn't help the cause.

basically, they know they have very high value in the dating world, but also know that their market value drops off quick.

This was the pro blem BigAlexBoss encountered. The beautiful girls have tons of options. I just wrote a blogpost about this subject.

http://partytravelsexlove.com/2012/10/02...-get-real/

Maybe you met some of these sweet girls.

girl in the bikini (first pic) and blonde oiling the car look like 2 girls i was with (albeit dolled up for a photoshoot). neither of them pretended to be traditional girls seeking positions as 1940s housewives.

the reality is that top tier women anywhere in the world have access to the global rich jetsetter guys and local rich/high status guys, driving up their value. very rich guys and local high status guys can travel anywhere in the country on a whim. the only exception is if the perfect 10 girl lives say in a village and never went to the city, just turned 18, and don;t have any pics up on the internet.

All those pictures came off dating sites, so it's very possible you met them. The first bikini girl is Viktoria and the one working on the car is Onya. Were they eager to hook up for action?

I'm don't think there are any untapped 10s in villages anymore. Even in far away villages these girls can now play the internet and still have a local BF or two. Even they know their value.

[alphascout]

...

[jimukr104]

(10-03-2012 04:32 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

(10-02-2012 08:54 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

(10-02-2012 05:52 PM)the_conductor Wrote:  

A question I kind of have is why is everyone obsesseed with kiev over Moscow? 10 years ago i had a choice ,i choose to work in Kiev because it was more unknown ,adventurous, and i wanted the rockstar vibe. Also salary allowed me t osave more based on cost of living. Back then we needed visa and invite letter same as russia. Thing is everyone goes now because no visa. No visa was the worst thing for foreighners possible ,it allowed lazy backpackers and sex tourists to take over. I always figured anyone wh o wanted IN so bad can afford the hoops. Now its a shell of its former glory ,However ,Moscow seems to have kept out the sex tourists. it also has over 5 mil girls i n the area and more % of english speakers. yes its expensive but so is Kiev. Theres got to be a reason my ex manager transferred fro mKiev to Moscow and hasn't left yet

Jimukr104

A visa never stopped a backpacker from visiting the country.

Whats wrong with being a backpacker in the Ukraine? Don't whine because poor guys take the women while you have to throw money around. Did it occur to you that backpackers can get girls because some of them are generally cool people to hang out with in contradiction to snobby expats who boast about their jobs/money or whore mongering sex tourists?
I'm not bashing expats because there are cool ones with interesting lives but most are boasters with a beergut.
Not all girls are money hungry, some find an adventurous guy more interesting then money.

Not all backpackers are dirty guys with dreadlocks who travel with pots and pans.

Actually it does seem like you are bassing expats and its obvious you got a large chip o n your shoulder, get the bug out of your...no ones whining.
I never compared expats to anyone nor am I whining .i really dont think any expat thinks backpackers are competition nor do I think avg expat has a beer gut or higher % of bee guts than backpackers. You usually see expats in expat bars, so that implies they drink alot thus havign a beer bellies. there are plenty of expats wh o do not g o to the bars and who are gym rats. Also i think it s pretty adventurous to leave ones family and work i n a country where you are stuck in all 12 seasons, including cold winters and have t o dea l with water shut off half the day and slow dial up internet. i havent been an expat i n 10 years so you obvious didn't read anyones posts. But I ca n assure you 10 years ago , no heat, no water and no torrents to download(slow dial up) made life in Kiev more adventurous than it is today. The expats g o in before all the luxuries.
But this post isnt about expats or back packers or sex tourists, its about being gamed i n FSU. Your CHIP made it a competition, thats very ZERO-SUM ,very beta . The problem is too many foreighners , regardless if they are expats,tourists ,backpackers ,or aliens from out of space have descended on ukraine/kiev ,it happened 20 fold whe n visa was lifted. So 30k foreign guys hitting on 3k girls that stroll the main street has given the girls higher value. Read Roosh's BANG he talks about the VALUE issue. In essence we are i n agreement, NEIL ,you yourself are saying to g o to cities with less foreighners.
Also alot of locals avoid the main streets because of al lthe foreighners , regardless of being sex tourists ,backpacker ,tourists.I do not think they did so whe n only expats were around since expats do not get i n thier way. Its not uncommon in western countries as well . I live in NYC, my friend s and I avoid tourist areas like times square when ever we can. my father has a second property in Las vegas, local s rarely go to the strip is they do not need to(ex. work). In ukraine same thing is happening, locals are avoiding the center in increasing amounts in KIEV. its been like that in Odessa for a decade already. In the summer the locals can't be seen i n the center.
So please read the whole thread before you comment. And I got to add, as has bee ndiscusssed, ukrainians do not think freelancing/backpacking is COOL. Roosh found that out. Whe n Ukrainians trave l they actually spend to impress. They eve nbring more luggage than Americans. They got to have thier expensive gadgets and clothing . i was once on a tour bus trip ,Ukrainian tours, to Hungary. All the loading of luggage delayed the trip. Ofcourse alot of Russians are now using hostels and are backpacking in Western Europe. However, they LIE t o thier friends and make it seem that they stayed in more luxury. Its a status thing. It sounds irrational but its the mentality, spending is cool, saving isn't . You completely wrong about me spending lots of money, LOL. As has been mentioned I am typing on a wap phone. i am very frugal and do not drink much(boring ). my wife goes as far t o call me cheap at times ,lol. the most I ever spent on dinner in Ukraine was 20 bucks, though, prices were cheaper then. i once went so far as to make a date pay her ow nway t oget int o a club ,becasue i saw some red flags. i should write a book how to Bang Ukraine on 500 dollars or less. peace!