Quote: (05-12-2012 08:32 AM)beta_plus Wrote:
Let’s get to the part that everyone really cares about:
Women:
TL;DR version:
While many girls in Istanbul are stunning and obesity is low, there are many just barely decent girls as well, often with slightly bad teeth. This combined with a secular but conservative muslim and inward looking society that has little English fluency would probably make this a very difficult place.
The girls:
Quality:
After visiting Cairo frequently and seeing Turkish immigrants in Denmark, I was expecting for the girls to be hideous – overweight with terrible faces. I could not have been more wrong. Istanbul girls are often very good looking. Slender with olive skin, long black hair, and light eyes. Some of the most exotically beautiful women that I have ever seen work security and immigration at Ataturk International Airport. That being said, there are plenty of plane janes as well once you are in the city. Tooth care is a problem there. It’s not as bad as the UK, but it’s still noticeable. Assmen and Breastmen will be disappointed. The girls are generally waif like when not occasionally chubby.
Fatty Alerts:
While there are some chubby girls, I cannot recall seeing a true fat chick while I was there, even in the impoverished areas that I went – which was NOT the case in Cairo – in fact the poorer she was, the fatter she was in Cairo. It was interesting watching videos of Turkish belly dancers, who since they were not fat asses like their US and Egyptian counterparts, actually did provide an enjoyable tease.
Attitude:
Very closed off. It’s a Muslim society and very few people speak English even in the tourist areas. Effectively no one speaks it outside of the Tourist areas. It’s also extremely insular. Turks appear to have little interest in the rest of the world beyond buying and selling things, given the few conversations that I got to have in English. Women were very reluctant to talk to me, even for basic directions when they knew English.
Language:
This is going to be a very big problem. Turkish is one of the hardest languages in the world and generally useless outside of Turkey. You can barely order food or get a taxi in tourist areas. As well, even if you become fluent and focus on the language, it may not pay off by traveling to other parts of the country. From what I’ve seen of Turkish immigrants elsewhere, the quality of women in the rest of the country may not match Istanbul and not justify mastering Turkish.
Venues:
The Café culture is everywhere, which is a real headache when you don’t speak the language and everyone is closed in. Even going to nightclubs, people still sit around in a café style with defeaning music and no mingling.
Nightlife:
Most tourists stay in Sultanhamet, which is where the Hagia Sophia and most of the sights are. There is no night life there.
The two main areas for nightlife are Taksim Square (about 2 miles north of the Hagia Sophia) and underneath the Southern Bosphorous Bridge (several miles away and hard to get to without using a cab). There are a bunch of cheesy night clubs around Taksim square, where I saw the seated café cuiture even in a place that was meant to be dance club. You had guys sitting in large groups by themselves with no girls. While there were some women, they were seated around too.
As for the area under the Bridge, while supposedly world famous for its night clubs, I really did not see what the big deal was. I went on a Wednesday night figuring that I could get in since it was an off night, but was sent away from the clubs for “not having a reservation and not coming as a couple”. That did not strike me as a good sign, especially since I was pretty sure the clubs were nearly entirely empty. I went to an area of sea side bars and cafes, but it was the same problem as everywhere. Lots of dudes and everyone seated in groups of people who clearly knew each other well.
The Competition:
Busted Dudes Test:
I did not see any trolls with 6s in Istanbul. The men have that dark brooding Southern Italian look that girls love more than anything else besides the Northern Italian Soccer Player look. They are fairly tall in Istanbul, too. I saw mediocre guys with cute girls, but those guys were not that mediocre. One guy who worked at a restaurant told me that he was dating an American woman who was close to 200 lbs.
Use of Game by Locals:
Game appears to be non existent among local Istanbul men. Maybe they only turn it on when they visit the FSU. As well, I wondered about the use of prostitution after the managers at the same late night café where the guy with the 200 lb yankee girlfriend suggested going to a club for sex.
Drunk Brits, Desperate Italians, and Other Annoying Tourists:
I only saw one drunk brit group. I did not see any Italians. The vast majority of foreign tourists appeared to be older Germans and Dutch. There were extremely few Americans. Americans do not appear to visit Istanbul, according to the hotel manager, regardless of the economy. Almost no tourists venture beyond Sultanhemet and the neighborhood south of Taksim Square. Americans do not seem to be hated in Istanbul.
Society:
As I’ve said before, there is little English spoken and apparently little interest to learn according to expat friends of mine. The country, while secular, is extremely insular and still very conservative in an Islamic way, with a significant percent of women in head scarves, though nothing like you will see in North Africa or the Persian Gulf. I got the idea from the hotel manager from how he described his relationship with his ex girlfriend that people are expected to be married before having sex. He had lied about being married to her. This makes me think that girls are going to need some big reassurances about anonymity. Despite the conservatism, it was fun to watch the local soccer match on TV and see the cameras blatantly show only very hot girls for the crowd reaction shots.
Istanbul looks rich at first but if you stray even a bit from the Tourist areas and coastline, you run into very poor sections immediately. Keep in mind that most of Istanbul is very poor, with only a few extremely wealthy areas and the tourist sections.
Boring but necessary stuff:
Getting there:
Flying to Istanbul is surprisingly affordable from the United States due to Turkish Airlines having a very extensive network and heavy competition from European airline hubs. My round trip ticket was only $800 and would have been $60 less if I had bought 6 hours earlier.
Getting Around:
Istanbul has around 20 million people with totally inadequate transportation infrastructure. Just travelling two miles can take a very long time if you don’t plan carefully. One would think that the narrow and winding streets of the old section would quickly give away to larger modern boulevards in the newer parts, but it just continues almost all of the way to the airport. That being said, I did not see the quality in women decline any in outer areas. The cabs are affordable but not cheap.
Food:
In the tourist areas, food is less than DC but not as less as one might think. Outside of the tourist areas that are not wealthy, it goes down significantly, but those places are difficult to get to given the hills, narrow and winding streets, and poor transport. Given that GDP per capita is 1/5 of the USA, one would expect it to be much less. The food is excellent, however, if you love Middle East style mesas. Unlike many other parts of the region, it is also safe. You can eat delicious raw fruits and vegetables without any problems.
Alcohol:
Not cheap, especially if you consider average incomes. Expect to pay near DC prices ($6 a beer) in bars and restaurants. In the grocery stores, a 50 cl bottle of the local beer goes for around $2. That being said, the local beer is a quite good Pilsner, and Turkish wine is outstanding.
Conclusion:
For us n00bs trying to get into the flag game, despite the apparent high quality of women, Istanbul looks like that it would be an extremely frustrating place due to almost no English spoken, an extremely difficult and otherwise totally useless local language, and a conservative Muslim society. From what I have seen and read on the forum, Istanbul might qualify as the World Championship of Flags – if you can get a hot Turkish Girl without being fluent in Turkish in Istanbul, you can get one anywhere. Other places, while more difficult to get the flag, simply would not have the same quality of beautiful women.
The reason why the women in Istanbul seemed better to you than the average ugly turkish girl, is precisely because Istanbul is very mixed and barely anatolian '' turkish'' at all.
Most of the Turks you have seen around in Europe descend from Anatolia, basically a mix of Kurds, Arabs, other muslim folk, considering that Turkey didn't exist as a nation before 1923 and was created by mixing all the muslim folk there and creating what is now turkish identity.
Those girls have big noses, fat, hairy and are a bit different that what you would see in Istanbul.
Even though I have not seen anything special in Istanbul , the average is higher, you are right.
However the reason why is like that is because many people in Istanbul are Albanian, muslim Bosnian, Circissian, etc, meaning that if Istanbul has 18 million people, 7-8 million will be from these people. All the after mentioned people have good looking females, better than european average in wetsern europe,
It is estimated by some sources that 6 million turks descend fully or partially from Albanians, that were very prominent in the Ottoman Empire, that was nothing else but a multi cultural, multi ethnic empire , applying a semi islamic caliphate ruled by Osman dynasty which was itself mixed.
For example the strongest ruling family in the Ottoman Empire was Albanian, Korpyly Albanians that ruled the Ottoman Empire for 65 years or so by even comprising an Albanian Era of the Empire:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6pr%...%BC_family
T
he Köprülü family (Turkish: Köprülü ailesi) was a noble family of Albanian origin in the Ottoman Empire.[1][2] The family provided six grand viziers (including Kara Mustafa Pasha, who was a stepson), with several others becoming high-ranking officers. The era during which these grand viziers served is known as the "Köprülü era" of the Ottoman Empire.
Another notable member of the family was Köprülü Abdullah Pasha (1684–1735), who was a general in Ottoman-Persian wars of his time and acted as the governor in several provinces of the empire. Modern descendants include Mehmet Fuat Köprülü, a prominent historian of Turkish literature. Members of the family continue to live in Turkey and the United States.
During the history of the Ottoman Empire, the Köprülü grand viziers had a reputation for dynamism in a state that would later show signs of decline and stagnation. The early viziers in particular focused on military campaigns that extended the Empire's power.
The Köprülü era (Turkish: Köprülüler Devri) (c. 1656–1711) was a period in which the Ottoman Empire's politics were frequently dominated by a series of grand viziers from the Köprülü family. The Köprülü era is sometimes more narrowly defined as the period from 1656-1683, as it was during those years that members of the family held the office of grand vizier uninterruptedly, while for the remainder of the period they occupied it only sporadically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6pr%...hmed_Pasha
Köprülü Mehmed Pasha, Mehmed Pasha Dushku (Ottoman Turkish: كپرولی محمد پاشا, Köprüli Meḥmed Paşa; Albanian: Mehmed Pashë Kypriljoti or Qyprilliu, also called Mehmed Pashá Rojniku; c. 1575, Roshnik,– 31 October 1661, Edirne) was the founder of the Köprülü political dynasty of the Ottoman Empire, a family of viziers, warriors, and statesmen who dominated the administration of the Ottoman Empire during the last half of the 17th century, an era known as the Köprülü era.[1] He helped rebuild the power of the empire by rooting out corruption and reorganizing the Ottoman army. As he introduced these changes, Köprülü also expanded the borders of the empire, defeating the Cossacks, the Hungarians, and most impressively, the Venetians. Köprülü's effectiveness was matched by his reputation.[2]
Also, in general it seems that 36 Prime Ministers of the Empire were Albanian, 28 are written here, it lacks 8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:A...man_Empire
Also, 15 prime ministers or so seemed Bosnian, maybe Croats or others had 1 or 2.
Circissians went there as refugees in the empire but also because many circissian women used to be in large numbers in the Ottoman harem.
This is why Istanbul women were a bit better that the turkish women you see in europe.
As for women Turkey is much more difficult that any where else in europe, but considering the size of Istanbul and it's more european population you have chances there for sure.[/b]
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