Quote: (09-21-2017 06:49 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:
Quote: (09-21-2017 05:55 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:
Quote: (09-21-2017 02:08 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:
I hate tipping. Pisses me off.
What I loved most about living in Anglo countries is not having to tip, but leaving a small tip anyways. In the UK, I always threw a pound or two extra in when I bought my drink to the bartender. After doing this 3 times, I had the bar locked down and was getting free drinks passed to me.
In America, you have to tip upwards of $50+ to get that level of service at a bar. Fuck that.
Where are you ordering "in America?" Maybe in New York or another really high end spot in Los Angeles, but the vast majority of the country a 10 dollar bill or maybe max a $20 spot at the beginning of your first (multiple) drink order (and then a few bucks here and there otherwise) is plenty to get top-tier service. Alternate is just to get to know the bartenders a bit and tip reasonably well.
An even better example, tipping $10s or even $20s in my opinion for a $5 drink is excessive especially for having to deal with bartender attitudes and horrific wait times. Tipping $2-3 should be more than enough to get pleasant service.
You go to Europe and you don't have to deal with this BS. Throw a single or even a double euro coin and you're the man. I have no problem paying wait staff better so I don't have to tip.
On a side note, I used to wait tables back in the day as a part time job and I never had a problem getting tips even from demanding customers. The worst part about working in a restaurant was having to work with the other front of house staff and is part of the reason I have a low opinion of waiters, waitresses, and bar tenders. Even on my worst days with massive rushes, I was always able to stuff my pissed off attitude behind a smiley veneer.
To be bluntly honest, a lot of wait staff and bar tenders are utter crap at their jobs.
If you're getting sourpuss waiters/waitresses I fully support you not tipping. HOWEVER, it would help for you to explain your argument in this way (and I think there are valid reasons that tipping culture can have negatives) as opposed to completely glossing over the fact that I never talked about tipping $10 on a single drink. What I said was:
Quote:Quote:
Where are you ordering "in America?" Maybe in New York or another really high end spot in Los Angeles, but the vast majority of the country a 10 dollar bill or maybe max a $20 spot at the beginning of your first (multiple) drink order (and then a few bucks here and there otherwise) is plenty to get top-tier service. Alternate is just to get to know the bartenders a bit and tip reasonably well.
Also:
Quote: (09-21-2017 02:08 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:
I hate tipping. Pisses me off.
What I loved most about living in Anglo countries is not having to tip, but leaving a small tip anyways. In the UK, I always threw a pound or two extra in when I bought my drink to the bartender. After doing this 3 times, I had the bar locked down and was getting free drinks passed to me.
I find it hilarious that you hate tipping, yet you love to do it in countries where you get a little better value out of it. Basically, you're a somewhat cheap dude who claims to be against tipping, not just someone against tipping. That's fine and I don't think you're a bad guy for it, but argue your case well and don't frame it in a way that makes you look like a hypocrite, hating on tipping in one breath and the next breath saying how much you love it when it's cheaper for you.
Quote: (09-22-2017 10:44 AM)churros Wrote:
Quote: (09-21-2017 06:50 PM)Fortis Wrote:
I'm not sure how guys don't like tipping. I love showing up at a spot, being welcomed by name and being treated like a valued friend of the establishment.
That is the fundamental point. You are not a valued friend. You are just giving them money, and they like that.
Almost all human interactions are transactional in nature. What makes a difference is if the person is genuine. You could be a pretty solid tipper but if you're an asshole people are going to think, "yeah that guy is a decent tipper, but fuck that asshole" and not give a shit about you at all.
If you're a solid dude and a shitty tipper, staff may eventually figure it out, but you'll have an uphill battle being overly cheap. If you're a cool dude and you don't tip excessively so, but are known to tip healthily especially in the beginning of the night, you're going to not only get better service but staff will get to know what you're about and expect less in tips and genuinely look forward to serving you because they know you're not some entitled douche (like most of those establishments deal with on a daily basis).
The servers are fine with all the people in between (majority of people that don't stick out), but they don't have much interest in providing them exceptional service because they don't know them. When you separate yourself from the pack in terms of value, both higher tipping as well as attitude/personality, you will get significant value in return.
At minimum the few extra dollars here and there net me priority entrance when there's a line, faster service at the bar, and usually an occasional free drink (or a double instead of a single).
At maximum, I rarely pay for < 75% of my drinks, they're all strong as shit, I stroll in the front door whenever I want, with as big a group as I want (nobody pays cover if there is one), if some dude is being a fuckup to me security will probably kick him out, most of the staff greet me (I don't have to explain the benefits of social proof on RvF do I?), and my whole party gets to stay and drink past closing until it's truly time to go.
I've also made a few solid friends from the service business. I figure if you can't even become good acquaintances with some service staff through social interaction (and yes a little good tipping when it's appropriate/appreciated), you have very little chance of banging that real hot girl at the bar that every guy is checking out.
Tipping is not an all or nothing proposition, certain situations will be far different depending on the general area, the specific type of establishment/service, and the general tipping culture, but to say tipping should be abolished because it's all negative is very short-sighted.
You can hate it or love it, you can be emotional over it, but I'll keep extracting tremendous amounts of value for the dollar/effort, recognizing it as having aspects of networking (give value to receive value).
Quote: (09-22-2017 10:44 AM)churros Wrote:
Quote: (09-21-2017 06:50 PM)Fortis Wrote:
How do guys not like that shit?
I'm equally amazed that people don't see through the falsity of this financial transaction.
Money corrupts every relationship. It's staggering to me just how normalized this has become in US culture.
Tipping should be surplus, not taken for granted. If someone is having a bad day, their wage shouldn't depend on it.
What kind of entitled, socialist clap-trap is this (highlighted in bold above)? If someone is having a bad day and their job is to provide upbeat, quality service to a business' customers, why shouldn't their wage/job be dependent on their attitude and performance? What job do you expect to be in that you treat your customers subpar because you're having a bad day and not get a stern talking to or get written up, at minimum?
Oh you're having a bad day and that's affecting your ability to do your job? Ask if someone can replace you for the day, otherwise step up and do your job at the very basic level because...that's what the money is for!
Whether they're getting paid a base with no tips or dependent on their tips to make a decent wage, damn straight their bad day should affect their wage if they let it affect their performance.