Quote: (10-09-2013 04:47 PM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

Quote: (10-09-2013 03:40 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Test boosters work so well that the guys who sell them are all on TRT.

Damn I wasted a lot of money over the years. Wish an adult had told me what was up.

Now you tell kids it's bullshit and their gurus are juicing, and they argue with you.

I have no moral qualms with gear or trt but the sentiment that everyone is juicing or needs to be, is getting a little out of hand on this board. The fact is that is you are a healthy <50 year old male, low testosterone should not be concern. If it is, than you have 1.) shit diet, 2.) your bodyfat is way to high, 3.) some form of hypogonadism

There is a very positive correlation between tlevels and low body-fat(obvious low single digits is another story). Considering the average American is sporting 25%+ bodyfat, it is no surprise that men today have far lower test levels than their grandfathers. Just lowering the bf would do wonders for most guys tlevels.

On the flip side, the skinny guys with low test are are most likely not eating enough. If you are eating 1500 calories a day, your body will shut down hormone product.

If you are not in any of the above categories and have low t, than you have genetic/or steroid-induced hypogonadism and trt is really your only option.

Anyways, I dont think trt is something that should be taken lightly as I would personally hate to have to inject myself for the rest of my life. Something about carrying my masculinity in a little glass bottle doesn't appeal to me either...

most of this is true.

for the record i have been diagnosed with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism

Quote: (10-09-2013 04:47 PM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

I have no moral qualms with gear or trt but the sentiment that everyone is juicing or needs to be, is getting a little out of hand on this board. The fact is that is you are a healthy <50 year old male, low testosterone should not be concern. If it is, than you have 1.) shit diet, 2.) your bodyfat is way to high, 3.) some form of hypogonadism

There is a very positive correlation between tlevels and low body-fat(obvious low single digits is another story). Considering the average American is sporting 25%+ bodyfat, it is no surprise that men today have far lower test levels than their grandfathers. Just lowering the bf would do wonders for most guys tlevels.

On the flip side, the skinny guys with low test are are most likely not eating enough. If you are eating 1500 calories a day, your body will shut down hormone product.

If you are not in any of the above categories and have low t, than you have genetic/or steroid-induced hypogonadism and trt is really your only option.

Anyways, I dont think trt is something that should be taken lightly as I would personally hate to have to inject myself for the rest of my life. Something about carrying my masculinity in a little glass bottle doesn't appeal to me either...

You are so seething with resentment and feminine anger that you couldn't omit that last line, couldn't you?

Why not just troll and say, "No one needs TRT!"

Plus, your silly little paragraph misses the point. Sure, go be an ordinary 45 year old.

I'd rather be 45 and have the testosterone levels I had when 25. It's all about choices.

Anyhow, instead you pretend to say it's OK and then throw in a cunty, passive-aggressive little dig.

You = man of low testosterone. Blood levels would show that.

This thread reminded me of this story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/sports...h_20130916

Guy is in fucking amazing shape for 80.

Quote: (10-09-2013 08:12 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Quote: (10-09-2013 04:47 PM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

I have no moral qualms with gear or trt but the sentiment that everyone is juicing or needs to be, is getting a little out of hand on this board. The fact is that is you are a healthy <50 year old male, low testosterone should not be concern. If it is, than you have 1.) shit diet, 2.) your bodyfat is way to high, 3.) some form of hypogonadism

There is a very positive correlation between tlevels and low body-fat(obvious low single digits is another story). Considering the average American is sporting 25%+ bodyfat, it is no surprise that men today have far lower test levels than their grandfathers. Just lowering the bf would do wonders for most guys tlevels.

On the flip side, the skinny guys with low test are are most likely not eating enough. If you are eating 1500 calories a day, your body will shut down hormone product.

If you are not in any of the above categories and have low t, than you have genetic/or steroid-induced hypogonadism and trt is really your only option.

Anyways, I dont think trt is something that should be taken lightly as I would personally hate to have to inject myself for the rest of my life. Something about carrying my masculinity in a little glass bottle doesn't appeal to me either...

You are so seething with resentment and feminine anger that you couldn't omit that last line, couldn't you?

Why not just troll and say, "No one needs TRT!"

Plus, your silly little paragraph misses the point. Sure, go be an ordinary 45 year old.

I'd rather be 45 and have the testosterone levels I had when 25. It's all about choices.

Anyhow, instead you pretend to say it's OK and then throw in a cunty, passive-aggressive little dig.

You = man of low testosterone. Blood levels would show that.

I have no problems with your choice but the trt recommendations are being thrown around a little too liberally. As for my 'dig', it is true, like everything else I said. If for what ever reason, you weren't able to take your injections, your tevels would dissipate to nothing within a month. A blood test would certainly show that. I am sorry I struck a nerve, but that is something guys should know before getting on.

Quote: (10-10-2013 02:42 AM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

I have no problems with your choice but the trt recommendations are being thrown around a little too liberally. As for my 'dig', it is true, like everything else I said. If for what ever reason, you weren't able to take your injections, your tevels would dissipate to nothing within a month.

HCG restores natural production.

How do you think bodybuilders have children even thought TRT can affect fertility? Guys just go off, restore their natural production, reproduce, and go back on.

That is basic, well-known shit to anyone who knows about this stuff.

You are the worst sort of ignoramus - you don't know what you don't know.

Look, guys can reach their own conclusions but you are just making shit up. Let the adults talk for a while.

Those who are really into it always downplay the possible side effects.

At a certain point in my life I thought about juicing, but unless you're planning on doing some Dorian Yates-style posedowns for the crowd - you don't really it, besides middle and old aged men.

Quote: (10-10-2013 07:21 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Quote: (10-10-2013 02:42 AM)Magyarphile Wrote:  

I have no problems with your choice but the trt recommendations are being thrown around a little too liberally. As for my 'dig', it is true, like everything else I said. If for what ever reason, you weren't able to take your injections, your tevels would dissipate to nothing within a month.

HCG restores natural production.

How do you think bodybuilders have children even thought TRT can affect fertility? Guys just go off, restore their natural production, reproduce, and go back on.

That is basic, well-known shit to anyone who knows about this stuff.

You are the worst sort of ignoramus - you don't know what you don't know.

Look, guys can reach their own conclusions but you are just making shit up. Let the adults talk for a while.

I am well familiar with the effects of hcg. Restoring natural test production after being on a cycle or trt can take months and sometimes it never comes back. Everyone knows that. You are messing around with a very delicate system ,the hpa axis and it is a big risk. Why are you so angry, mate? You didn't point out anything that I said was wrong but you persist on name calling. Hormonal issues...?

After reading this thread and a few others I decided to get my levels checked last week. The results came in yesterday and I'm at 467 ng/dl. The accompanying letter from the (female) doc says, "Your testosterone levels are well within the normal range of 300-960." Obviously my next question is "How can I get up to 960?"

Any suggestions about how to push for a prescription? It's a VA doc, if that matters. I'm thinking about continuing to indicate loss of morning wood, decreased energy, decreased mental capacity, and just generally feeling old & slow (all true).

Edited to add: I'm 35.

467 isn't low enough to warrant TRT in my opinion.

and you'd be hard pressed to find any doctor who would.

if you push and push and find a doc who treats symptoms and not numbers, you might be in luck.

did you see what your Free Test was? thats the real marker

FYI I tested under 300 three times in a row before my Endo would put me on

Thanks for the reply, reaper. I do not know what the free test number is, but will find out.

467 is below average. It's not "sick," but who wants to have below average testosterone levels?

Good anti-aging clinics will put you on once you're under 500.

Avoid endos and regular docs. Always go to anti-aging clinics or anti-aging doctors.

Basically anyone (even those who are in the higher range on all 3 metrics) can get it from an anti-aging clinic - they are private businesses and want your money.

It's not really discussed much, but you can find information stating that free T is more important than total T, others will say bioavailable, and really just about any variant. Testosterone-to-estrogen ratio also matters.

Some have very high total T, average bioavailable, but high e2 as well.

Some have average total T, but high free T, high bioavailable, and low e2.

Some have high total T, but low free T, and high e2.

Some have across-the-board low total & free & bioavailable and average e2.

Some have high across-the-board T, while still having high e2.

These combinations go on forever.

Quote: (10-30-2013 05:17 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

Good anti-aging clinics will put you on once you're under 500.

Avoid endos and regular docs. Always go to anti-aging clinics or anti-aging doctors.

I went to my local anti-aging clinic today (in Australia), and they recommended a "bioidentical hormone replacement" cream at a cost of $3000 for 12 months supply. They said this will get me back to the same test levels I had in my mid 20s. I should then stop using the cream.

I am just seeking improved vigor and sex-drive, and not to bulk up.

Anyone know if these creams are any good?

If the "cream" you speak of is a form of transdermal testosterone, then the following issues apply:
-transdermal testosterone is subject to much more variable uptake and it may take a lot of trial & error to really dial in a proper dose
-transdermal formulations are known to produce higher levels of DHT (the compound associated with male pattern baldness)
-transdermal applications are much more easily transferred to children or female companions that you may come into close contact with

I'd be a little wary of this so-called "bio identical" formulation. Personally, I would stick with the actual testosterone compound; no substitute.

Quote: (12-09-2012 06:39 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I forgot to mention Magnesium Oil Spray. That's a big part of my T regimen. Use it every time I finish a shower.

http://www.mikemahler.com/store/nutritio...m-oil.html

Hen, can you break this down a little bit?

Anyone else tried it?

A good androgens-optimization program should also include the best of adaptogenic herbs, which help to strengthen the adrenals (DHEA optimization) and lower cortisol (testosterone antagonist).

Some adaptogens that I regularly use are:
Maca
Reishi mushroom (extract and/or tea)
Chaga mushroom (extract and/or tea)
Gynostemma (tea)
Shizandra berries
Ginseng
Rhodiola
Ashwaghanda
Holy basil (tulsi)

Quote: (12-02-2013 10:13 PM)Mon Wrote:  

A good androgens-optimization program should also include the best of adaptogenic herbs, which help to strengthen the adrenals (DHEA optimization) and lower cortisol (testosterone antagonist).

Some adaptogens that I regularly use are:
Maca
Reishi mushroom (extract and/or tea)
Chaga mushroom (extract and/or tea)
Gynostemma (tea)
Shizandra berries
Ginseng
Rhodiola
Ashwaghanda
Holy basil (tulsi)

Can you break some of these down (in bold)?

Where are you buying?

Quote: (12-02-2013 04:29 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-09-2012 06:39 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I forgot to mention Magnesium Oil Spray. That's a big part of my T regimen. Use it every time I finish a shower.

http://www.mikemahler.com/store/nutritio...m-oil.html

Hen, can you break this down a little bit?

Anyone else tried it?

I started using it a couple weeks ago, after hearing about its affects on testosterone.

It could be placebo, but I definitely noticed some effects. Not like an all day thing, just more aggression spontaneously. This past weekend I got knocked over at the club by some random who sucker-shoulder checked me and I couldn't find him after and lashed out at the metal railing beside me. I was sober so it wasn't drunk aggression.

I've also noticed my sleep has changed. I feel I've been having deeper sleeps and more vivid and remembered dreams.

It's definitely something to experiment with.

Quote: (12-02-2013 10:24 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

Quote: (12-02-2013 04:29 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-09-2012 06:39 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I forgot to mention Magnesium Oil Spray. That's a big part of my T regimen. Use it every time I finish a shower.

http://www.mikemahler.com/store/nutritio...m-oil.html

Hen, can you break this down a little bit?

Anyone else tried it?

I started using it a couple weeks ago, after hearing about its affects on testosterone.

It could be placebo, but I definitely noticed some effects. Not like an all day thing, just more aggression spontaneously. This past weekend I got knocked over at the club by some random who sucker-shoulder checked me and I couldn't find him after and lashed out at the metal railing beside me. I was sober so it wasn't drunk aggression.

I've also noticed my sleep has changed. I feel I've been having deeper sleeps and more vivid and remembered dreams.

It's definitely something to experiment with.

Do you use the exact same one as Hen?

Quote: (12-02-2013 10:24 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  

Quote: (12-02-2013 04:29 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Quote: (12-09-2012 06:39 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I forgot to mention Magnesium Oil Spray. That's a big part of my T regimen. Use it every time I finish a shower.

http://www.mikemahler.com/store/nutritio...m-oil.html

Hen, can you break this down a little bit?

Anyone else tried it?

I started using it a couple weeks ago, after hearing about its affects on testosterone.

It could be placebo, but I definitely noticed some effects. Not like an all day thing, just more aggression spontaneously. This past weekend I got knocked over at the club by some random who sucker-shoulder checked me and I couldn't find him after and lashed out at the metal railing beside me. I was sober so it wasn't drunk aggression.

I've also noticed my sleep has changed. I feel I've been having deeper sleeps and more vivid and remembered dreams.

It's definitely something to experiment with.

I have no personal experience with Transdermal Magnesium but one of the main benefits is that it promotes deep sleep.

This is the one I'm using right now: link

I'm not sure how much difference there is between different brands, I'm happy with this one as it's inexpensive and has solid reviews.

Quote: (12-05-2012 01:50 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  

Take cold showers.
Eat deer ball soup.
Choke a bitch.

Haha.

Quote: (12-04-2013 12:48 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  

This is the one I'm using right now: link

I'm not sure how much difference there is between different brands, I'm happy with this one as it's inexpensive and has solid reviews.

Any other benefits besides lashing out at that railing?

Also, do you find the "deeper sleep" makes it harder for your to wake up in the morning?

Or are you jumping out of bed?

I used to lift and use Androstenedione back in the day when it was legal and over the counter.
Andro is a pro-hormone that is converted to testosterone in your liver.

What I remember of elevated T levels is definitely deeper sleep. Felt more rested. Clearer head.
Generall feeling good almost to the same extent of dropping some E-Bombs. Yeah it's that good

I was also horny as fuck. Dick got hard if the wind blew past it

The downside ...mood swings. Getting easily angered. Overly emotional to the point of crying sometimes.
I guess that's what female PMS must feel like.

I even believe the elevated T comes out in your manly scent as pheromones. I definitely got more female attention.
I wasn't huge or built or cut or anything. I just lost a few pounds.

Quote: (12-04-2013 10:44 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

Any other benefits besides lashing out at that railing?

Also, do you find the "deeper sleep" makes it harder for your to wake up in the morning?

Or are you jumping out of bed?

Man it's definitely harder to get out of bed. I find myself snoozing more than usual and sleeping in more than I'd like to more often. I don't know if this is a sign of deeper sleep or not. However, those are only on the days I set an alarm. If I don't set an alarm I'll wake up normally and tend to wake up early as well.

I feel my sex drive is higher as well. But I can't attribute that entirely to the magnesium. I take daily 30mg of Opti-Zinc as well.

Supposedly the magnesium is also good for relieving muscle soreness. Work out legs that day and then spray on magnesium over your thighs after a shower and it should decrease muscle soreness the next day. I tried it but didn't feel much of a difference.

Maybe I'll notice other benefits as well once I go off the magnesium.