Quote: (08-16-2010 03:34 AM)IshGibbor Wrote:
Quote: (07-23-2010 01:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:
Quote: (07-05-2010 01:32 PM)IshGibbor Wrote:
Quote: (07-05-2010 01:07 PM)Samseau Wrote:
As a poor schmuck stuck in this recession, stuck in a dead end career trajectory (was going to be a lawyer, but it looks like a wash), but still able to land some dates with just regular game (but unable to get 8's and above), I believe money makes all the difference between quality and non-quality lays.
The thing is, you don't need THAT much money... even 50K a year with good game will get very good results. Dress nice and go on interesting dates. But, as it is, making less than 20K a year, struggling to pay the bills, struggling to find cheap dating locations, struggling through dates when it comes to personal life details... I have to say that money is more important than women. At least having that bare minimum of money.
Moreover, happiness in life comes from more sources than just women. Trying to do these other activities without money is basically impossible. Snowboarding? Forget it. Sailing? Nope. Vacations? haha. Early retirement so you can focus on writing an interesting book? Kiss that goodbye.
I would take a dream job over a dream girl any day of the week.
Making money to me just to get women isn't worth it. Pussy is just not that great. In the end you have to wonder are you meeting your sexual needs or just flat out going for ego gratification. I've been with some really hot girls and honestly it is not that big of a deal. Pussy is pussy, she has what she has what she has what she has. I'm really don't see why you would slave yourself making money in the best years of your life just to enjoy hot women when you are older. Find something that makes you happy and do that regardless if the women come to your door step or not.
And what if your passion in life includes fucking beautiful women?
I don't completely buy the whole Pook style arguments that you should ignore women and focus on what you love and someday women will come to you, for three reasons:
1. What I love to do makes me no money. I can't even survive on doing what I love, never mind date.
2. Going without sex for longer than a year does terrible things to your mind. It's bearable, but a slow, painful existence nonetheless. And it's all subconscious, so there's no controlling the basic need for sex.
3. Life isn't fair. It's not about what you want. If you want to have something, then you will have to give something else (such as time or money).
I'd say the American dream today is a bastardized version of what it used to be back in the 17-18th century.
It was never "do what you love and let the world come to you" but instead "work hard and you might have a decent existence". Today men everywhere have their hopes and desires inflated to unsustainable levels, when back in the good, Christian days of America's existence, people had a very modest conception of America and what they could expect in their life.
Sorry if this reply is more the needed but I am long winded as hell.....
I just don't see how sex with lots of different women makes one happy. Womanizing is fun but an endless adventure where you will never be satisfied. It reminds me of the level of hell in Dante's inferno of a man who had to go in circles for eternity life loading the cart with rocks on one hemisphere of the circle and depositing them on the other (only to have to put the rocks in the cart when he was back to the starting point he left). Sacrificing your youth just so you can enjoy the same physical sensation you could get in your youth as an old man is not a wise trade off.
Everyone who has banged a hot woman knows that the desire for her is far more of a powerful draw then the actual obtainment. A good analogy can found in the movie American Beauty when Lester, a forty five year old man that has never fucked a virgin, lusts after the young, promiscuous (or so we are led to believe) fertile Angela. In the end of the movie, Lester obtains an invitation from Angela to pound her like a gorilla only to decline her offer after his fantasy comes crashing down by Angela's revelation that she is a virgin and the emptiness of obtaining sex without any meaning (i.e. reality) sets over him. PUA's, Womanizers, etc give meaning to sex as a way of justifying the numerous amounts of time they dedicate to fucking women Stripped of all the fantasy and arguments for the legitimacy of pursuit PUA's make of the act (claiming to be "alpha's" rather then "beta's for example), sex is just sticking your dick in something warm and wet, nothing more nothing less. After fucking a hot girl and the blinders of lust are gone a new feeling sets over you, a feeling of unsatisfaction, which is what makes a lifestyle of endless fucking contrary to happiness.
On maslow's hierarchy of needs fucking is at the very bottom, you must have other passions which will make your life more fulfilling. This is why my opinion is to do what you love regardless if women come flocking or not. I know for a fact that I love studying and reading books and discussing knowledge with learned individuals. I could give a two hour lubed up hardcore ass fuck if the "tens" in the world consider that low status. Maybe hooking up with a different woman a night may satisfy the childhood wounds one may have suffered with initial female rejection (ala Roosh or the vast majority of PUA's and those inspiring to become one) but it sure as hell won't make life worth living.
My hope is you do what gives you meaning in life brotha (and if sex is your passion you should try and become a porn star).
Ish Gibbor
So, let's take a quick recap of our argument thus far, and see if I can point out our differences:
- I say money is very important to having success with women.
- You say, fuck money, fuck women, do what you love.
- I say, doing what you love to bring happiness is impossible. There are other considerations to human happiness.
- You say, women are over rated, money is over rated, these things will just consume your time and life and leave you empty.
My response: doing what you love will not make you happy.
When Lester's inner beta comes out at the end of American Beauty, you see a man who realizes sex isn't the most important thing in life, whereas I see a man who is still confused about what he wants.
Isn't that the entire point of American Beauty? Lester is a guy who suffers his midlife crisis when he finds no "fulfillment" with his current life, and begins to explore the world outside of normal societal duties. He quits his job, dabbles in drugs, fantasizes about new women, works out... and then is met with an untimely death? He doesn't do shit with his life. At one point he throws away everything he has just to try and figure out something else to do, and rather than show if he's successful for living outside of the mold, he's murdered (to avoid the difficulty of making a real ending).
BUT AT LEAST HE DIES HAPPY! RIGHT?!?!
Talk about a shitty movie where there is nothing to learn... no lesson to observe... and just the same old crap that gets posted all over new-agey self-help books everywhere: "Find what you want, be who you are, do what makes you happy..." It's just popular trash culture, it has no long term value and will be forgotten within 50 years. The lesson to take from American Beauty is reflected in the meaninglessness of it's plot:
"Were not sure what this movie is about, but if you like making movies as much as we do, you should too! (if it makes you happy?)" Confused, just like Lester.
Let me shake things up for you, Ish.
There is no such thing as living your life "in search" of happiness. I agree with Nicomachean Ethics: Happiness comes from virtue, a sum of collected good habits of living between extremes of character. Happiness is not simply doing what you love. If all you do is what you love, you will be unhappy. Happiness, in large part, comes from things
external to who you are.
Easy examples include food, sleep, and sex. (there's also morals... but lets not go there!) I find game as the vehicle to satisfy one of my base needs. It's also a lot of fun. Would I make my entire life out of it? Of course not. Not many would. But it's something I will perfect over my life, like I do with my lifting.
Aristotle teaches us that a degenerated form of democracy (from the Politics), where everyone "does what they want", will always end in social failure, because it breeds vice. This runs counter to what you recommend, Ish. But I don't blame you for believing what you do. You are simply part of the zeitgeist of excessive individualism that is destroying Western Civ right now, just like everyone else who posts on this site (myself included... but I would love to see things change).
I know a man... has two kids, a dog, a wife (when he married her, she was only a 6 out of 10, but has now aged into a 4.5), worked his whole life like a slave... runs daily, does a few marathons... built up his own wealth from decades of work... his greatest moments of hedonism come from cookouts with his family provided by his wife while swimming in his pool... works in china about 1/2 of the year away from his family with a bunch of morons who do not speak English, or barely speak it... he's mid 40's...
The happiest man I've ever met. Both him and his wife still love each other. And he didn't become this way by "doing what he loves".
When my father divorced a few years ago, I had no place to live, but this man was kind enough to spot me for 6 months in his house, with his wife and kids (who were my age, so it was a lot of fun). I got to see how he lived, and how his family life worked.
By any standard of the roissysphere, or PUA sphere, he's just a wee little beta male living a meager life... with almost no game... but by Aristotle's account, he's virtuous. His happiness reflected this. That's what counts, and that's what he has. While Mystery was going to therapy for suicide, this man was teaching his sons about history and politics.
Money (survival) and sex are very important to us as required by our biology. It makes perfect sense to try and accumulate as much of these two goods as possible, even if it means to sacrifice "doing what you love". The fact that sex is on the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy shows the extreme importance of sex, because the bottom of the pyramid has greater priority over the top. Money and sex may not be sufficient for the good life, but they are necessary.
Therefore, doing what you love will not make you happy.