[oldnemesis]

It is not the amount of money you make which affects your success with the women, it is the way you spend it. This is the reason why Joe Smith who just won 10M in a lottery and now buys rounds for everyone in the bar every night would not do better than he did before he was poor and could only afford a single drink.

The ways I see worth spending money are:

1. On your appearance. This includes expensive shirts, custom suits, a nice car and apartment/house. This also includes a stylist, cosmetologist visits, $50/session personal training in a gym, regular massages and so on.

2. On your connections and experience. My experience there is quite limited, but I found that you meet completely different people when you travel business class overseas, and got into Admiral's clubs or executive lounges. Traveling a lot and visiting a lot of places around the world makes you a more interesting person.

3. On your game. You have troubles maintaining the conversation or with the body language? I'm pretty sure you can get relevant training from a psychologist or whatever. In Russia they have pickup trainings when they study not only the theory, but also practice utilizing one-way radios to facilitate real-time training. Probably here in USA it happens too.

To keep it short, spend your money on you, not on women. And if you want to pay for sex, use hookers

[kingkong]

If you want to keep on having flings forever I guess money doesn't matter too much beyond a solid base. If you have any ambition at all to spawn then money matters a whole lot. Your wallet will have a big impact on the quality of woman who will stick around and bear your seed. Your wallet will then have an enormous impact on the advantages you can secure for your children.

Not everyone is just about getting laid next month.

I think a couple guys guffawed about well off dudes not getting attractive chicks. I have to call horse shit on that. I see obvious correlation between income and access to attractive and *CLASSY* women in the pairs around me.

[InternationPlayboy]

As far as MOB goes, I'd rather have the bitches if I'm living comfortably. All money is for is to get me things that make me happy, and as long as I have enough to travel, eat, snowboard, have sex with women good looking women and go out a couple of nights a week, I'm happy.

[IshGibbor]

(07-05-2010 10:38 PM)kingkong Wrote:  

If you want to keep on having flings forever I guess money doesn't matter too much beyond a solid base. If you have any ambition at all to spawn then money matters a whole lot. Your wallet will have a big impact on the quality of woman who will stick around and bear your seed. Your wallet will then have an enormous impact on the advantages you can secure for your children.

Not everyone is just about getting laid next month.

I think a couple guys guffawed about well off dudes not getting attractive chicks. I have to call horse shit on that. I see obvious correlation between income and access to attractive and *CLASSY* women in the pairs around me.

[IshGibbor]

(07-05-2010 10:38 PM)kingkong Wrote:  

If you want to keep on having flings forever I guess money doesn't matter too much beyond a solid base. If you have any ambition at all to spawn then money matters a whole lot. Your wallet will have a big impact on the quality of woman who will stick around and bear your seed. Your wallet will then have an enormous impact on the advantages you can secure for your children.

Not everyone is just about getting laid next month.

I think a couple guys guffawed about well off dudes not getting attractive chicks. I have to call horse shit on that. I see obvious correlation between income and access to attractive and *CLASSY* women in the pairs around me.

First off you can have kids and not have a lot of money. Mexicans are proof you can be dirt poor in America and still have 12 kids run up in a doughnut shop looking for Krispy Kreme. The Gaza Strip (one of the most poorest areas in the world) has one of the highest birth rates in the world as well. The rich make money the poor make babies.


Also, I know a lot of well off women who have no class and women who are not well off but have more class then I've ever seen coming from rich chicks. I understand when women say they want men who are at their level (usually speaking money wise) but hey I've met some female doctors whose husbands are plumbers (blew some of my female friends away but then again they admit that they want money, status and power...the chicks you would be attracting if you had a fat wallet).

It is not black and white but I think that as long as you can afford to raise a kid (I'm thinking at least 50k a year living in a cheap area...say Ga.), the woman should be alright with that. I am not saying every girl has to be on Thoreau's level but there is a difference between a woman wanting a man who is secure economically and a woman who is just looking to be with a man who has lots of money.

As Kanye West said, "I'm not saying she's a gold digga, but she don't want no broke ni99as"

[paultheking]

A lot of times more money = more problems. You have to worry about more things and your general quality of life doesn't really go up. You make more money but you spend more of it too.

It definitely sucks to be in poverty, but once you're at 80k/year (after taxes) thats enough. If you are responsible and know how to budget you can still get everything you want.

In the long run, we are all dead. Your memories, experiences, adventures from 16-35 are all that you have. I would not trade my time and life for a bunch of paper ever. Roosh was 100% right to say fuck it to the corporate jailcell and live in freedom. Some of the happiest people in the world are from foreign countries. Things are always going downhill, we just need to make the best of it. Would you wanna be some old fuck with millions of dollars thats miserable because he is too old to enjoy it?

Women should not be after your money anyhow... thats a fast way to get used and thats bullshit. Spending money on girls is unnecessary!

I apologize if this sounds like a rant...not my intention at all. There are some really good ideas in this discussion.

[Quasi]

Im with Ish on his views at the same time I always think a good setup financially opens new possibilitys, normally here I dont need a car for instance, but now I figured in the summer time with the beach 20 km away..it would have improved m game alot... the difference between the porsche and the really old corpse of a car isnt that big.. the big difference is between a car and no car at all... same thing with women, banging a 8 or a 10..not that big a difference in pleasure.. but getting poon or not!

But no doubt that whoremonger has some solid points, but at the same time as Roosh mentions money without personality is just is just boring to women, who might be seduced by it.. which might be good enough for getting in and out..

Just made me think a rented car for a few months each summer would be ideal..

[MiXX]

(07-02-2010 03:00 AM)Whoremonger Wrote:  

If a man could fuck in a cardboard box, he would not buy a house.

.....and I have! Brazil carnival 2008 - place: Salvador Bahia - total shithole....took a girl to a back alley behind a dance club and placed a cardboard box looked like it was made to pack a refrigerator to shield us from public eyes....it was tricky...but plausible, and attainable. Great times.....

If I could fuck like that back home, I'd never look for a trendy condo on the beaches of Miami, and I would just live with mom.

Mixx

[hydrogonian]

Money is important, if for nothing but for your mental health as you get older. Having money, as long as you live under your means and protect it from other people litigating to get it, reduces stress to a great degree.

No matter what guys with money say, "More money more problems" is bullshit compared to the problems that come with not having enough. But, in all, it comes down to living below your means no matter how much or little that you make.

You don't want to be a hustling at 50 just to get by.

I spent my twenties just trying to figure out what I wanted to do, but with no real action except toward dead ends that I didn't foresee. Its hard to know whats what when you don't have parents who are more than marginally successful (mine were teachers). They don't know shit about making money, and guys who have parents who know the score tend to have a huge advantage.

Since 29 I've been putting most of my effort into making money, at the expense of relationships and girls. Now, I still get women. However, its secondary for me to my primary pursuit. And my relationships have suffered a bit as I tend to work a lot. However, Id rather put in the work now than later.

The thing about making money, if your not in a very good career, is that it will likely take you a lot of trial and error and adaptation. Your not going to just decide to make money one day, and be making it the next. Likely, you will have to adjust and readjust your strategy until it works. This takes time. So, its best to start as early as possible to make the mistakes as early as possible.

Also, I'm a believer in multiple streams of income. Work on something that will provide you with a job for the rest of your life, as well as entrepreneurial pursuits. The business ideas are great for freedom, if you pick a good one, however you never know what might happen to dry up business. Therefore, you need to have a backup.

Most jobs are absolute shit and getting shittier, so its important to pick a career carefully. Pick with an emphasis on lifestyle and security. Count on your business ideas to make your real money, but resign yourself to not being upset about it if they don't ever really work out. The pride is in taking the risk, which is much more than most people have the tenacity to endure.

And there is no way that I'm doing this for pussy. I'm doing it so that I can enjoy a modest but lower stress lifestyle. I want more choices in life. Money equates to choice. Also, I never want to have to worry about paying the rent again due to being fired or work drying up. By the time that I'm 36 or so, I'll never have to.

[Samseau]

(07-05-2010 01:32 PM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

(07-05-2010 01:07 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

As a poor schmuck stuck in this recession, stuck in a dead end career trajectory (was going to be a lawyer, but it looks like a wash), but still able to land some dates with just regular game (but unable to get 8's and above), I believe money makes all the difference between quality and non-quality lays.

The thing is, you don't need THAT much money... even 50K a year with good game will get very good results. Dress nice and go on interesting dates. But, as it is, making less than 20K a year, struggling to pay the bills, struggling to find cheap dating locations, struggling through dates when it comes to personal life details... I have to say that money is more important than women. At least having that bare minimum of money.

Moreover, happiness in life comes from more sources than just women. Trying to do these other activities without money is basically impossible. Snowboarding? Forget it. Sailing? Nope. Vacations? haha. Early retirement so you can focus on writing an interesting book? Kiss that goodbye.

I would take a dream job over a dream girl any day of the week.

Making money to me just to get women isn't worth it. Pussy is just not that great. In the end you have to wonder are you meeting your sexual needs or just flat out going for ego gratification. I've been with some really hot girls and honestly it is not that big of a deal. Pussy is pussy, she has what she has what she has what she has. I'm really don't see why you would slave yourself making money in the best years of your life just to enjoy hot women when you are older. Find something that makes you happy and do that regardless if the women come to your door step or not.

And what if your passion in life includes fucking beautiful women?

I don't completely buy the whole Pook style arguments that you should ignore women and focus on what you love and someday women will come to you, for three reasons:

1. What I love to do makes me no money. I can't even survive on doing what I love, never mind date.

2. Going without sex for longer than a year does terrible things to your mind. It's bearable, but a slow, painful existence nonetheless. And it's all subconscious, so there's no controlling the basic need for sex.

3. Life isn't fair. It's not about what you want. If you want to have something, then you will have to give something else (such as time or money).

I'd say the American dream today is a bastardized version of what it used to be back in the 17-18th century.

It was never "do what you love and let the world come to you" but instead "work hard and you might have a decent existence". Today men everywhere have their hopes and desires inflated to unsustainable levels, when back in the good, Christian days of America's existence, people had a very modest conception of America and what they could expect in their life.

[playa_with_a_passport]

What really matters is how much disposable income you have after all your expenses are taken care off. Also, having disposable time comes a close second. High income doesn't necessarily equal high disposable income. I know guys who make 120k a year and are living paycheck to paycheck because they have to pay for 2010 BMW 5' series, the co-op in the city, eating out every night, bottle service etc. You can't even spit at a chick correctly if money problems are always on your mind. I also agree with Roosh, Game does trumps money. Women like to have their cake and eat it too. They'll marry some chump who can provide a nice upper middle class lifestyle and them turn around and fuck the broke but with tight game pool boy/waiter/starving artist/ bouncer as soon as hubby goes to work.

[OGNorCal707]

(07-23-2010 05:21 PM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

What really matters is how much disposable income you have after all your expenses are taken care off. Also, having disposable time comes a close second. High income doesn't necessarily equal high disposable income. I know guys who make 120k a year and are living paycheck to paycheck because they have to pay for 2010 BMW 5' series, the co-op in the city, eating out every night, bottle service etc. You can't even spit at a chick correctly if money problems are always on your mind. I also agree with Roosh, Game does trumps money. Women like to have their cake and eat it too. They'll marry some chump who can provide a nice upper middle class lifestyle and them turn around and fuck the broke but with tight game pool boy/waiter/starving artist/ bouncer as soon as hubby goes to work.

Congratulations on becoming a bartender, your life's work is now complete.

[hydrogonian]

(07-23-2010 05:21 PM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

What really matters is how much disposable income you have after all your expenses are taken care off. Also, having disposable time comes a close second. High income doesn't necessarily equal high disposable income. I know guys who make 120k a year and are living paycheck to paycheck because they have to pay for 2010 BMW 5' series, the co-op in the city, eating out every night, bottle service etc. You can't even spit at a chick correctly if money problems are always on your mind. I also agree with Roosh, Game does trumps money. Women like to have their cake and eat it too. They'll marry some chump who can provide a nice upper middle class lifestyle and them turn around and fuck the broke but with tight game pool boy/waiter/starving artist/ bouncer as soon as hubby goes to work.

True.

But it depends on the woman that you marry. If you marry a woman that is prone to this behavior, then you've made a huge mistake already.

Game definitely trumps money. Ive dated 9's who I've made pay for most things over the period of many months. However, money will win out in the very end. Most women will reevaluate the situation no matter what. Unless you target very wealthy women. They only care about how well you fuck them.

[oldnemesis]

(07-23-2010 05:21 PM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

They'll marry some chump who can provide a nice upper middle class lifestyle and them turn around and fuck the broke but with tight game pool boy/waiter/starving artist/ bouncer as soon as hubby goes to work.

Just a few comments-questions:

- Why marry someone who is not working, or does not want to? If you work and she is not (or vice versa), and has nothing else to do, this is a recipe to disaster.

- Is it still a problem if you can also turn around and fuck a waitress/colleague/your ex from high school?

- Do you think this situation keeps up with age? I can easily imagine a women in her 40s fucking a 20yo broke bouncer even if he has no game at all, but it is hard for me to imagine her fucking a 40yo bouncer.

[playa_with_a_passport]

(07-24-2010 08:55 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(07-23-2010 05:21 PM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

They'll marry some chump who can provide a nice upper middle class lifestyle and them turn around and fuck the broke but with tight game pool boy/waiter/starving artist/ bouncer as soon as hubby goes to work.

Just a few comments-questions:

- Why marry someone who is not working, or does not want to? If you work and she is not (or vice versa), and has nothing else to do, this is a recipe to disaster.

- Is it still a problem if you can also turn around and fuck a waitress/colleague/your ex from high school?

- Do you think this situation keeps up with age? I can easily imagine a women in her 40s fucking a 20yo broke bouncer even if he has no game at all, but it is hard for me to imagine her fucking a 40yo bouncer.

Money does matter, I just don't think you need an obscene amount of money to get top shelf women. if a woman had a choice between a pool boy and the guy with the custom suits, BMW, Gucci loafers etc.. Of course she's going the choose the latter. However, most women are not confronted with those stark black and white choices at the same time. What usually happens is that she chooses The custom suit who approaches her at the white tie charity event and on another day she will she choose the pool boy who approaches her when he catches her checking him out as he cleaning her pool. women specially "1st world women" are emotional driven beings this is why Game works so well on them. If that wasn't the case, Like Roosh said only lawyers and doctors would have the pick of the litter while broke or lower status males would be reduced to fucking undesirable women. But we all know this is not the way it works in real world at least for the 18 to 35 crowd. You hit the nail in the head with the 40 year old bouncer, the older you get the more virgin tight your Game needs to be in order to compensate for financial shortfalls. For a 40 year old broke, tired, and broken down bouncer to be able to pull dimes he needs to have "Inception" type game, he needs to literally be able to get inside a bitches' mind and plant seeds in her subconscious. Very few guys out there have this type of skill.

@OG thanks, reaching bartender status is item. #5 on my bucket list

[K-man]

Just be careful how much time you devote to building your career, saving cash, then spending it - by the time you are done with all that, you might well be 40, and you wouldn't have settled down and started a family yet.
I got married at 33 and had a kid at 34, now it's 1 year old and let me tell you, it's a lot of work taking care of that shorty! And we'll have one or two more - I can't imagine having the energy to do that at, say, 45!
So if I had spent my 20's making cash, and then spent my 30's living la vida loca, then where would I be? I think in my 20's I made the right choice, a balance between partying and banging different girls and working a decent job that enabled me to have a house all paid for and some cash in the bank, but definitely not a millionaire.
I think you only have 10-15 years of productive single life, which you have to choose whether you want to spend chasing tail or earning cash, but can't stretch the years too far.

[hydrogonian]

I think you might find a slightly higher than average rate of guys on this forum who choose not to have kids, ever. But, yeah, theres something to be said for not being 60 when your kid is 20.

[Whoremonger]

The only way to keep banging young hotties in their 20's while you are in your late 40's early 50's is to either pay for it or have so much fuckin money its not funny. Do you honestly think a young buck with a bit of game is going to be fucking the mistress of a man who is wealthy AND has a history of using game too?

Women cheat when they no longer fear losing what they have. Chumps with money are still chumps, but thinking you are going to bed that Mafia boss's mistress unless she is on the way out is what we call delusional.

I dont see why it has to be either game or money. Money is game and unless you are a social retard who suffers from insecurities and a scarcity mentality you are going to get more pussy than you will know what to do with. But hey, enjoy your 20's and 30's. As you move into your 40's and you have nothing to show for yourself but a string of notches on the bedpost, you can move from hot 8's and 9's to single mommies and divorcees.

[hydrogonian]

When I can get a nine to pay for almost everything over a period of months, and have her still begging me for sex without a real risk of her cheating on me because she is focused on pursuing me every free moment, thats great game (from a technical standpoint).

When I pay for everything, get some sex, but still have to worry about her cheating because my worth to her is almost solely tied up in the material benefits, thats bad game.

Then there is game which is somewhere in-between bad and great, from the perspective of the resultant psychological state of the girl.

Thats why money and game can give the same general result (sex) but much different specific results. Thats why they aren't the same.

A woman will relish any type of caretaker behavior, no matter how small, from a guy with great game. A girl will completely take for granted the copious caretaker behavior from a guy with bad game.

[IshGibbor]

(07-26-2010 05:17 AM)Whoremonger Wrote:  

The only way to keep banging young hotties in their 20's while you are in your late 40's early 50's is to either pay for it or have so much fuckin money its not funny. Do you honestly think a young buck with a bit of game is going to be fucking the mistress of a man who is wealthy AND has a history of using game too?

Women cheat when they no longer fear losing what they have. Chumps with money are still chumps, but thinking you are going to bed that Mafia boss's mistress unless she is on the way out is what we call delusional.

I dont see why it has to be either game or money. Money is game and unless you are a social retard who suffers from insecurities and a scarcity mentality you are going to get more pussy than you will know what to do with. But hey, enjoy your 20's and 30's. As you move into your 40's and you have nothing to show for yourself but a string of notches on the bedpost, you can move from hot 8's and 9's to single mommies and divorcees.

Hence why I plan on having children in my 30's. I can deal with being a bachelor at 40, can't deal with being a bachelor at 40 with no kids to show for it.

[IshGibbor]

(07-25-2010 04:14 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

I think you might find a slightly higher than average rate of guys on this forum who choose not to have kids, ever. But, yeah, theres something to be said for not being 60 when your kid is 20.

Then again if you are Stallone you can still look 40 even though you are past 60. How the hell does that man stay looking that young? (lol).

[oldnemesis]

(07-26-2010 01:21 PM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

Then again if you are Stallone you can still look 40 even though you are past 60. How the hell does that man stay looking that young? (lol).

Easy. This is his full-time job which makes him money. Everyone can do it if you have motivation AND money.

[Amish]

(06-30-2010 11:58 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I know financial success and success with women are not mutually exclusive, and most often financially successful men do the best with women. But for hypothetical sake would you guys say that you'd take money over bitches?

Or maybe more specifically would you spend most of your 20's focused and consumed with making big $$, with limited success with women, but have 100's of thousands saved for your 30's, or would you be the guy that partied hard and got laid with 100's of women, but only has a few thousand to your name by the time you hit 30?

Just curious, if anyone cares to respond.

I just scanned the responses, and there are some strong opinions here. Lots of raisins and lots of turds. In reality, it depends on your background. If you grew up poor, you will likely pursue money to overcompensate. If you grew up with a gold-plated notch-making device that never got used, you will pursue notches.

Further, it is not an irrevocable decision. Pick one. If you don't like the results then change course. Goalposts have a habit of moving, so stop trying to plan too much.

[oldnemesis]

(07-25-2010 08:46 AM)playa_with_a_passport Wrote:  

You hit the nail in the head with the 40 year old bouncer, the older you get the more virgin tight your Game needs to be in order to compensate for financial shortfalls. For a 40 year old broke, tired, and broken down bouncer to be able to pull dimes he needs to have "Inception" type game, he needs to literally be able to get inside a bitches' mind and plant seeds in her subconscious. Very few guys out there have this type of skill.

That is basically what I'm saying - assuming you have some basic money and basic game, the older you become, the less important game becomes and the more important money become. As I said several times, a 20yo starving musician student type who lives on a beach looks romantic, and with good game can pull a lot of 20-40yo pussy, including very rich ones. But same type will look miserable when he is 50yo, and his chance to get any quality pussy goes down significantly (note that he is competing with other 20yo starving musician types which are there). He still may score some if his game is world-class, but then if his income instead was world-class, he'd may be able to score much more.

[NeVerGymLess]

(08-03-2010 11:29 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(07-26-2010 01:21 PM)IshGibbor Wrote:  

Then again if you are Stallone you can still look 40 even though you are past 60. How the hell does that man stay looking that young? (lol).

Easy. This is his full-time job which makes him money. Everyone can do it if you have motivation AND money.

No, Its because hes on HGH . Look up Frank Zane, see how amazing he looks at 60 + or Serge Nubret. These guys have better body's then 20 year olds.


Once I hit 35, ill be hitting HGH + blasting test and still be looking better then these 20 year old guys. Doesn't take money to bang a gym bunnie. ( its actually easier to pick up these lonely 30 - 40 year old cougars at the gym then any where else )