Why is Budapest so poor but looks so rich?
Tail Gunner, I personally think PPP (purchasing power parity) comparisons are a flawed concept. In todays globalised economy a lot of things are based on international prices as many goods are imported. For example lets say in country A that median wages are equivalent to 20,000 Euros per year (before tax) but are deemed to be the equivalent of 40,000 Euros per year (before tax) based on PPP and in country B median wages are 40,000 Euros per year and are deemed to be 40,000 euros per year based on PPP (because it is a high cost of living country). Now there is a very good chance that for example a median worker in country A will never be able to buy a decent quality brand new car which for example costs 15,000 Euros whereas a median worker in country be will be able to buy a new car which still costs the same 15,000 euros. Therefore in poor countries people are priced out of the market for certain goods and services such as new Japanese, American or German cars, long haul international flights, international holidays, etc. To buy a nice apartment in the center of Prague will probably cost you the same or more than buying a similarly central and nice apartment in a city with an equivalent population in a country like U.S.A., Germany or Australia, etc because Prague is an international touristic city. But of course the typical Prague local earns a much lower salary than somebody living in an equivalent sized city in a wealthier country.
This does not even take into account the fact that actually in some cases middle and lower income countries certain goods such as cars, electronics etc can sometimes cost more than in developed economies due to higher tariffs, freight costs, etc. For example a lot of electronic goods (as well as American brand clothes) are cheaper in U.S.A. than in most of Latin America. Hence people smuggling in laptops, Iphones etc from U.S.A. to LatinAmerican countries.
I think purchasing power parity is flawed because it has a feedback loop because it looks at spending based on a basket of goods which is related to what people actually buy so when its a poor country a lot of people cannot afford to buy certain expensive imported products so there weighting in the basket is low.
Aside from the imported goods factor there is also a big class divide factor in some countries which can affect prices for certain non-imported services/goods also. For example when I visited Chile there is huge wealth inequality in the economy there. Supermarket prices and prices for cafes and restaurants were generally on par with and sometimes higher than Australia and tourist accommodation prices on a comparable quality basis were only slightly cheaper (this is despite the fact that wages in Chile are much lower). Fuel and car rentals/purchases were more expensive than in Australia (due to higher taxes on these items) but taxis in Chile were much cheaper due to lower taxi licensing fees and lower wages. Things like buying fruit and vegetables from the market or using the train or bus (i.e. goods and services for poor people) were a fraction of the cost when compared to Australia. When I was in Chile (especially in Santiago) I realized that if I want to live like a working class person in Chile it is much cheaper than living a similar working class lifestyle in Australia. But to live an upper middle class lifestyle in Santiago would cost me almost the same as living a similar upper middle class lifestyle in Sydney. This is what is relevant to people on the forum not some theoretical PPP adjusted bullshit.
I think a fairer (but still imperfect) way to do a comparison between two cities in different countries is to go to website like Nomad List and see how much the monthly cost of living estimate is for a quality nomad/expat lifestyle and then compare that to local median wages in that city. This gives a better comparison of median wages to "middle class" living expenses. Because let's face it none of us on the forum are going to middle or lower income countries to live the lifestyle of the average local which is what PPP comparisons are based on.
This does not even take into account the fact that actually in some cases middle and lower income countries certain goods such as cars, electronics etc can sometimes cost more than in developed economies due to higher tariffs, freight costs, etc. For example a lot of electronic goods (as well as American brand clothes) are cheaper in U.S.A. than in most of Latin America. Hence people smuggling in laptops, Iphones etc from U.S.A. to LatinAmerican countries.
I think purchasing power parity is flawed because it has a feedback loop because it looks at spending based on a basket of goods which is related to what people actually buy so when its a poor country a lot of people cannot afford to buy certain expensive imported products so there weighting in the basket is low.
Aside from the imported goods factor there is also a big class divide factor in some countries which can affect prices for certain non-imported services/goods also. For example when I visited Chile there is huge wealth inequality in the economy there. Supermarket prices and prices for cafes and restaurants were generally on par with and sometimes higher than Australia and tourist accommodation prices on a comparable quality basis were only slightly cheaper (this is despite the fact that wages in Chile are much lower). Fuel and car rentals/purchases were more expensive than in Australia (due to higher taxes on these items) but taxis in Chile were much cheaper due to lower taxi licensing fees and lower wages. Things like buying fruit and vegetables from the market or using the train or bus (i.e. goods and services for poor people) were a fraction of the cost when compared to Australia. When I was in Chile (especially in Santiago) I realized that if I want to live like a working class person in Chile it is much cheaper than living a similar working class lifestyle in Australia. But to live an upper middle class lifestyle in Santiago would cost me almost the same as living a similar upper middle class lifestyle in Sydney. This is what is relevant to people on the forum not some theoretical PPP adjusted bullshit.
I think a fairer (but still imperfect) way to do a comparison between two cities in different countries is to go to website like Nomad List and see how much the monthly cost of living estimate is for a quality nomad/expat lifestyle and then compare that to local median wages in that city. This gives a better comparison of median wages to "middle class" living expenses. Because let's face it none of us on the forum are going to middle or lower income countries to live the lifestyle of the average local which is what PPP comparisons are based on.
On another note certain guys in the forum seem to think every problem a country experiences is caused by immigration. But notice apart from a few exceptions like Japan and Dubai its mostly the wealthier countries that have more immigrants and the xenophobic countries are often the less wealthy ones. Now I realize it is more a case of wealthy countries attract immigrants rather than immigrants causing a country to be wealthy. But what I am getting at is that its a bit simplistic and a bit of a long bow to draw to say that dysfunction is the result of immigration. Immigration and having a very mixed race population seems to work quite well in countries like Singapore, Malaysia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Australia, etc. In Australia we have a lot of wealthy and hard working Asians who come here and contribute immensely to our society. I do not think its race issue I think countries just need to properly vet immigrants to only take people who can speak the local language and have money (or a good education) with good job prospects, etc instead of flooding their countries with broke refugees who have no job prospects. The immigration policy of Australia has been much more successful than a country like Germany and it has nothing to do with Australia only taking in "white"/"European" people.
Notice how all throughout history the great and powerful cities of the world such as Carthage, Rome, London, New York, Amsterdam, etc have always attracted large numbers of foreigners. Its is rare for a xenophobic and insular city to become so important. When countries and cities attract large numbers of immigrants it is a sign that they are booming, important and lively and internationally relevant.
Look at Japan a clean, wealthy and orderly country that is xenophobic. The economy has stagnated for 30 years now and population is declining. Not really what I would consider a role model to be emulated.
Notice how all throughout history the great and powerful cities of the world such as Carthage, Rome, London, New York, Amsterdam, etc have always attracted large numbers of foreigners. Its is rare for a xenophobic and insular city to become so important. When countries and cities attract large numbers of immigrants it is a sign that they are booming, important and lively and internationally relevant.
Look at Japan a clean, wealthy and orderly country that is xenophobic. The economy has stagnated for 30 years now and population is declining. Not really what I would consider a role model to be emulated.
Pretty much this ^ Honestly without immigrants the place I live in would be a shitty ghost town with no industry.
My 5% white suburb is leaps and bounds better to live in than 100% white Moldova, 100% white third tier Russia, or 100% white West Virginia. Most human beings (including young whites) would agree with me. My neck of the woods is objectively better to live in than some butt fuck place that happens to be 100% white.
My 5% white suburb is leaps and bounds better to live in than 100% white Moldova, 100% white third tier Russia, or 100% white West Virginia. Most human beings (including young whites) would agree with me. My neck of the woods is objectively better to live in than some butt fuck place that happens to be 100% white.
![[Image: zGHQb4O.gif?2]](https://i.imgur.com/zGHQb4O.gif?2)
Quote: (05-17-2019 04:36 PM)Klan Killer Wrote:
Quote: (05-17-2019 04:11 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:
https://borgenproject.org/facts-about-po...n-hungary/
[b]Many young people feel like they have no future in the country. According to a report by the Hungarian Central Statistical Office, about half of people between the ages 19 and 30 would like to work abroad.
[/b]
Almost half of Hungarians–44 percent–cannot afford basic resources. This compares with an average of 19 percent across the EU.
Lol who's changing the subject? Wasn't me or rude who brought up PPGDP then immediately scrapped it up because it brought up uncomfortable facts.
Re read the bolded part. I guess even if almost half of all Hungarians want out and can't afford basics it's still a great place to be
![[Image: tard.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/tard.gif)
Quote: (05-17-2019 04:48 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:
@Klan Killer - I have mentioned that stat before, countless times but he chooses to ignore that simple fact.
If you cannot afford the basics, YOU ARE POOR.
Period.
Where's the source of that stat Rudebwoy?
Is this really the best you can do, link to an unsubstantiated claim? That is not a "stat", it's a claim. I wouldn't advise you to argue like that in a professional setting.
Maybe get glasses and look at link that was provided, in the post you replied too.
So any link you post is fact and anything that doesn't support your argument is a claim.
I repeat, I've been to Hungary numerous times. The OP obviously saw with his own eyes the state of the people there, which he deems as being poor.
I would love to hear your thoughts on the country when you visited.
So any link you post is fact and anything that doesn't support your argument is a claim.
I repeat, I've been to Hungary numerous times. The OP obviously saw with his own eyes the state of the people there, which he deems as being poor.
I would love to hear your thoughts on the country when you visited.
Probably because Budapest is like a facade to the country. It is made to please tourists.
Quote: (05-19-2019 02:13 AM)Klan Killer Wrote:
Pretty much this ^ Honestly without immigrants the place I live in would be a shitty ghost town with no industry.
My 5% white suburb is leaps and bounds better to live in than 100% white Moldova, 100% white third tier Russia, or 100% white West Virginia. Most human beings (including young whites) would agree with me. My neck of the woods is objectively better to live in than some butt fuck place that happens to be 100% white.
Yet another SJW imbecile banned. Goodbye Klan Man. Go start your own girly-man forum. When will they ever learn?
It is ironic that he raised this misguided argument in a thread about Hungary, when the multi-ethnic Austro-Hungarian Empire disintegrated because numerous minority ethnicity groups rebelled during a period crucial to the survival of the Empire. So much for diversity as a positive trait for the survival of a nation.
Quote: (05-16-2019 03:40 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:
Quote: (05-16-2019 02:20 PM)zatara Wrote:
Its pretty funny that you're arguing about a country you've never been to, against people who've actually had boots on the ground experience there, for what its worth. You should really get off the internet and go actually experience places, it'll teach you far more than reading wikipedia.
You people keep assuming things and reveling in your ignorance. Now you are telling me where I have not been? I have been to EE many times, both to countries with higher incomes than Hungary and to countries with lower incomes.
There was no reason to cite my experiences because the evidence is so clear -- and indisputable. Hungary has low unemployment rates. The people are not poor. Hungarians simply move to other countries for better opportunities and higher wages.
Quote:Quote:
As an EU member state, Hungary is part of the region-wide labor market, meaning a Hungarian can travel elsewhere in the bloc to find better work, and higher pay, without requiring a visa.
https://www.theatlantic.com/internationa...ts/580333/
Quote:Quote:
Nearly one half of Hungarian youth want to leave Hungary, mostly in search of a better life, according to public opinion pollster Republikon Institute, reports daily online
* * *
40 percent of those between the ages of 18 and 24 said that either they or a family member wanted to move abroad, 34 percent in search of a better life, and 5 percent because of politics.
https://budapestbeacon.com/nearly-half-o...-pollster/
Nah bro you’re very wrong the vast majority of Hungarians are poor, though their is a higher standard of living in comparison to their wages it’s poor af.
"I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story." Nas
Hungary almost the poorest country in the EU.
https://dailynewshungary.com/hungary-alm...ountry-eu/
Why is Hungary so poor.
https://444.hu/2014/01/30/why-is-hungary-so-poor
https://dailynewshungary.com/hungary-alm...ountry-eu/
Why is Hungary so poor.
https://444.hu/2014/01/30/why-is-hungary-so-poor
Quote: (05-21-2019 10:30 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:
Why is Hungary so poor.
https://444.hu/2014/01/30/why-is-hungary-so-poor
So, you refer to a clearly satirical article that mocks another clearly satirical article that makes fun of Google autocomplete -- and you call this a legitimate news source?
OK, so based on this map from the clearly satirical article cited by you, not only is Hungary poor, but France is gay, Lithuania is suicidal, Italy is racist, Spain is empty, and Latvia, Estonia, and Portugal are also poor.
Either you are trolling -- or lack the intelligence to comprehend satire. Based on your earlier posts, I lean heavily towards the second explanation.
Quote: (05-21-2019 07:05 AM)ElJefe1 Wrote:
Quote: (05-16-2019 03:40 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:
Quote: (05-16-2019 02:20 PM)zatara Wrote:
Its pretty funny that you're arguing about a country you've never been to, against people who've actually had boots on the ground experience there, for what its worth. You should really get off the internet and go actually experience places, it'll teach you far more than reading wikipedia.
You people keep assuming things and reveling in your ignorance. Now you are telling me where I have not been? I have been to EE many times, both to countries with higher incomes than Hungary and to countries with lower incomes.
There was no reason to cite my experiences because the evidence is so clear -- and indisputable. Hungary has low unemployment rates. The people are not poor. Hungarians simply move to other countries for better opportunities and higher wages.
Quote:Quote:
As an EU member state, Hungary is part of the region-wide labor market, meaning a Hungarian can travel elsewhere in the bloc to find better work, and higher pay, without requiring a visa.
https://www.theatlantic.com/internationa...ts/580333/
Quote:Quote:
Nearly one half of Hungarian youth want to leave Hungary, mostly in search of a better life, according to public opinion pollster Republikon Institute, reports daily online
* * *
40 percent of those between the ages of 18 and 24 said that either they or a family member wanted to move abroad, 34 percent in search of a better life, and 5 percent because of politics.
https://budapestbeacon.com/nearly-half-o...-pollster/
Nah bro you’re very wrong the vast majority of Hungarians are poor, though their is a higher standard of living in comparison to their wages it’s poor af.
Please tell these deluded fools, how many years you lived there.
Arguing over a country you have not visited is the definition of stupidity.
Other people have told you the same thing, Hungary is poor.
Yet, you continue with these childish meme's.
Eljefe lived there for many years, you haven't even been there.
The definition of a Troll is you.
Tell me what did you think of Debrecen?
Did you prefer Buda or the Pest Side?
Did you like the palinka?
What about the spa?
Oh wait, why am I asking you. Someone who has NEVER been there.
Get a life loser.
Yet, you continue with these childish meme's.
Eljefe lived there for many years, you haven't even been there.
The definition of a Troll is you.
Tell me what did you think of Debrecen?
Did you prefer Buda or the Pest Side?
Did you like the palinka?
What about the spa?
Oh wait, why am I asking you. Someone who has NEVER been there.
Get a life loser.
Quote: (05-21-2019 03:56 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:
Other people have told you the same thing, Hungary is poor.
Yet, you continue with these childish meme's.
Eljefe lived there for many years, you haven't even been there.
The definition of a Troll is you.
Tell me what did you think of Debrecen?
Did you prefer Buda or the Pest Side?
Did you like the palinka?
What about the spa?
Oh wait, why am I asking you. Someone who has NEVER been there.
Get a life loser.
I have never said that I have not been there. Perhaps I am trying to prove a point. Ever consider that? Of course not, because it is beyond your meager mental capabilities.
rudebwoy's view of the world:
-- United States, Western Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and certain Middle Eastern nations -- rich
-- [Nothing between rich and poor in the rudebwoy universe]
-- Hungary and the rest of EE -- poor
-- Most of South East Asia -- really poor
-- Philippines -- really, truly, seriously piss poor
-- India -- gut-wrenching, eye-bleeding, desperately poor
-- Africa and Haiti -- super-fantastically, disgustingly, dirt-eating poor
Yes, in rudebwoy's warped view of the world everyone who does not either speak English, live in Western Europe or Japan, or pump oil is poor.
What a terrible world. I would not want to live there. Fortunately, I live in a place called reality.
The discussion veered of course.
The premise and conclusion was this:
Why is Budapest such a pleasent, safe and orderly city despite having a low GDP pr. capita?
The answer was: It's because it's a white country with few non-white immigrants.
That won't change regardless of how high the GDP is in Detroit or Croydon.
The premise and conclusion was this:
Why is Budapest such a pleasent, safe and orderly city despite having a low GDP pr. capita?
The answer was: It's because it's a white country with few non-white immigrants.
That won't change regardless of how high the GDP is in Detroit or Croydon.
^I am not bring race into this debate, yet that seems to be your obsession.
^^Comical, my view of the world is based on what I see with my eyes, when I go visit.
OP asked why the country seems poor.
Attack me all you want, doesn't change the fact.
^^Comical, my view of the world is based on what I see with my eyes, when I go visit.
OP asked why the country seems poor.
Attack me all you want, doesn't change the fact.
Hmmm Palinka. Futyulos is one of the most popular and available brands, mass produced but still really good. Peach and apricot used to be my favorites.
Quote: (05-13-2019 04:54 PM)nice Wrote:
Lol to earlier replies... You dont't know anything to be honest. I lived there for few years. The main reason that you don't see the country you visited thoroughly because you live in kind of isolated from the realities of the country you visited. You rent your flat in good area, you eat at good places, you go to best barbers, best pubs/clubs/bars etc. because the money you make at home is a fortune in budapest. Therefore, you don't truly realize whats going on.
Actually, if you compare budapest with more western cities, even with prague, you can see that its much more dirtier, much more beggars,really really more, much more bad smell in streets or in transportation etc. So long story short budapest is really a poor city, also hungary logically. Educated hungarians go to other countries to work because salaries are bad, health care is not good too, economy is not good in general etc.
To sum up, yeah budapest is beautiful city but not so much to offer in long run unless you havent been in other big cities but also its not rich as you mentioned.
Surprised this was largely ignored. Budapest's airport was on third world levels last time I was there and Keleti is in shambles. Probably the worst central station I've ever been to in western or central Europe. Homelessness is high, poverty is high, hundreds of thousands have left for the north or west, and for all the positive things Orban has done on the immigration front, a lot of EU funds are squandered and awarded to his chums. Can't say I wouldn't do the same if I were him. Budapest is definitely not a nice place to live if you're a working person and have to deal with a HUF salary.
I compare Vienna with Budapest often, since I live in Vienna and I'm Hungarian by descent. Vienna has a shitload of immigrants (read: Turks, refugees), but it's far cleaner than Budapest and you don't see homeless people everywhere at sundown. Tons of Hungarian also live in Vienna because the monetary situation in Hungary is just not livable. If a person is only there for a holiday and with no attachment to the city of Budapest then sure, the realities of the non-tourist population are invisible and it's great.
Quote: (05-21-2019 08:14 PM)Polero Wrote:
Hmmm Palinka. Futyulos is one of the most popular and available brands, mass produced but still really good. Peach and apricot used to be my favorites.
Dude, I could live off that. Anytime I go to Hungary I need to buy at least two bottles. Would really miss getting my hands on that stuff if I ever live too far away.
^ Complete fabrication, you do not see beggars and homeless people everywhere. There are far, far more homeless people in London or any western european city.
That is what I have witnessed personally walking through the city after midnight. I have no reason or incentive to make things up.
Quote: (Yesterday 07:55 AM)crystalcastle Wrote:
That is what I have witnessed personally walking through the city after midnight. I have no reason or incentive to make things up.
And I've witnessed the exact opposite. Hungary isn't even bad compared to Prague and it is monumentally better than Paris or London.
![[Image: _83364317_pariscamplongreut.jpg]](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/83364000/jpg/_83364317_pariscamplongreut.jpg)
http://hungarianspectrum.org/2015/07/02/...migration/
The Hungarian colony in London is especially large, so one of the research institutes of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences conducted a survey among them about their reasons for leaving, their satisfaction with their decision to settle in London, and finally whether they are considering returning to the country of their birth. Seventy-three percent of them said that “they have no intention of ever returning to Hungary.” Twenty-one percent answered that “perhaps within a few years” they might go back, and only 6% said that they will definitely return within a year.
Seventy three percent of the Hungarians living in London, said they have no intention of ever returning to Hungary.
So much for full employment and returning people.
The Hungarian colony in London is especially large, so one of the research institutes of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences conducted a survey among them about their reasons for leaving, their satisfaction with their decision to settle in London, and finally whether they are considering returning to the country of their birth. Seventy-three percent of them said that “they have no intention of ever returning to Hungary.” Twenty-one percent answered that “perhaps within a few years” they might go back, and only 6% said that they will definitely return within a year.
Seventy three percent of the Hungarians living in London, said they have no intention of ever returning to Hungary.
So much for full employment and returning people.
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