There's a nice subtext in this discussion that isn't mentioned in the time article. Gurner started with $34,000 from grandad and used this to start his first business at the age of 19.

"His grandfather gave him $34,000 to kickstart the project and Mr Gurner spent four weeks renovating the space while getting his gym license by correspondence. Within six months, the place was pumping."
(from courier mail)

Now obviously this guy has worked seriously hard, and has serious business skill to get where he is today, but this is a relevant fact that he omits.
The sentiment behind it (try and save, work hard) might be correct, but 34,000 (probably a lot more due to inflation) is a lot of avocados and anyone in that position at the age of 19 has a big head start on someone who saves the money themselves and finally has enough at the age of 25.

Quote: (05-16-2017 02:02 AM)Putin Closes Wrote:  

Nationalism vs Globalism in a nutshell. Doesn't take a genius to figure out who's responsible for the insane real estate prices. I guarantee you if Australia / US decided to slap a foreign buyers tax property values would plummet. Same with smack down of the H1B visa and other low paid immigrant labor.

The poor are getting richer in the 3rd world, while the middle class in the 1st world is feeling the brunt of globalism. The upper middle class will probably stay there and benefit from gloabalism / automation, while the lower middle class face a bleak future.

Boomers are pretty much the luckiest generation in history: squeezing most of the benefits of tech / globalism boom, while not brunting the costs.

Quote:Quote:

The most important lesson I've learned from all of this is that nobody's gonna save you but yourself. Not mom, dad, friends, colleagues, your priest. Only you. And when you're in the process of trying to save yourself, people around you aren't gonna understand the process.

Your parents are probably the only people who will stick with you no matter how many times you fuck up, so cherish their company and advice (no matter outdated their advice can be).

Yes, Australia has implemented a tax on foreign investing and increased stamp duty and fees on new properties. It hasn't stopped them from continuing to buy properties/apartments in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane. ROI is too good at the moment.

Taken from this document: $74k Tax on $600k property. Plus added fees.

https://exfin.com/files/general_material...2017_2.pdf

Another clickbait article shitting on us millenials, who by the way make up a substantial portion of this forum.

1. There is little job security out there, so getting locked into a 15-30 year mortage is scary

2. Adding to this fact, many fields you have to changw jobs every few years to stay competitive, and to be assured your employer isn't trying to reduce employment through attrition. This may require you to move. Buying and selling a place within just 2-3 years is likely not going to make the average person wealthy.

4. Income for the lower class and middle class is not going up

5. Starting a business sounds nice and all, hell I have a couple failed ventures myself, but guess what? This usually requires money. Whats the best way to tie up your money and make it unavailable to starting a new business? Buying a fucking house.

6. Whats not that expensive? Rooming with 3-4 buddies, you can pay a total rent thats less than the interest and homeowners insurance you would have on a house.

7. Everyone telling us to work harder, get a second job to buy the house, etc etc etc, I would just ask you to consider the fishermans parable:

http://renewablewealth.com/the-parable-o...fisherman/

I wonder if Roosh is considering settling down and buying a house, since some of you make it sound like such a great idea. Please tell me more about how traveling the world and doing awesome stuff and living is the wrong approach to life. We need more white picket fences in bumblefuck suburbia.

Blaming spoilt millennials is a complete cop-out. In the 1970s a working class man could buy a house, and support a family in it, with his wage. Now, two middle-class professionals can barely buy the same house with their combined wage.

When a small starter house costs $500k (as is the case in a lot of medium/large Western cities) you're going to need a family income of $100k+ to have any hope of making a dent in that. Which is already way above average income for people under 35 almost anywhere. On top of the prices of the houses themselves, I have no idea how people with $50k+ of student debt could ever hope to save enough to pay a deposit on the house, while paying off their student loans and paying exorbitant rent in their 20s.

The banks and politicians in-hock to baby boomers/property holders have a huge interest in keeping property prices always increasing. But unless wage growth starts to match this (some chance), a massive crash is going to occur sooner or later. The question isn't if, its when.

There's also a big knock-on issue from this with pensions, that gets worse the longer the property bubble continues. Pensions are being woefully underfunded by the millennial generation, out of necessity to fund more immediate costs. If people aren't getting on the property ladder until their 30s, and are spending a much higher % of their income on their mortgage when they do, they tend to neglect their pensions. This is going to have serious effects on society in 30 years time, when almost nobody has a fully funded pension. Will the state step in? Or will millions of OAPs live in abject poverty?

Quote: (05-16-2017 06:42 AM)Repo Wrote:  

Another clickbait article shitting on us millenials, who by the way make up a substantial portion of this forum.

1. There is little job security out there, so getting locked into a 15-30 year mortage is scary

2. Adding to this fact, many fields you have to changw jobs every few years to stay competitive, and to be assured your employer isn't trying to reduce employment through attrition. This may require you to move. Buying and selling a place within just 2-3 years is likely not going to make the average person wealthy.

4. Income for the lower class and middle class is not going up

5. Starting a business sounds nice and all, hell I have a couple failed ventures myself, but guess what? This usually requires money. Whats the best way to tie up your money and make it unavailable to starting a new business? Buying a fucking house.

6. Whats not that expensive? Rooming with 3-4 buddies, you can pay a total rent thats less than the interest and homeowners insurance you would have on a house.

7. Everyone telling us to work harder, get a second job to buy the house, etc etc etc, I would just ask you to consider the fishermans parable:

http://renewablewealth.com/the-parable-o...fisherman/

I wonder if Roosh is considering settling down and buying a house, since some of you make it sound like such a great idea. Please tell me more about how traveling the world and doing awesome stuff and living is the wrong approach to life. We need more white picket fences in bumblefuck suburbia.

Agreed, especially with the bolded. That is the main problem for anyone looking for a mortgage for me. It locks you in with no security. Personally, rent will always be better even if you pay more in the long run with no ownership, unless you can pay for the house in cash but that is only likely to happen with an inheritance etc. The flexibility of rent is priceless, even with a family in my opinion.

You have a 25 year mortgage. Say you are fortunate enough to have a secure job for 20 years (very unlikely now) and then they let you go with a small severance pay. With no consistent wage, the house you have spent 20 years paying for is taken off you. Sign me up!

Fuck would I want a house for when I can live abroad, make money in USD and live it up and save more living in a tier-1 asian city than I can living in a tier 2342342134234 american city?

The irony of all of this is that the boomers are pissing and moaning about it, but they created this situation. Sometimes you just gotta sleep in the bed you made for yourself.

My grandmother called me up and told me I should come home and start paying into social security I was tempted to tell her "the social security that I won't have when I'm your age?"

He's not wrong. I'm in my 20s, my house is over 800,000 and that's on an entry level salary plus wife working part time.

I think a lot of people make excuses for why they can't afford a down payment when they don't realize how cheap and accessible a mortgage is.

I have another friend who lives 30 minutes away living in a fixer upper he bought for 250,000 with 10,000 down. I think a lot of millennials don't plan to buy a house, but they don't realize how affordable it is, and instead just bitch it's impossibly expensive.

You can qualify for a house with payments being 45% of your gross income.

Example: You're earning 15 dollars an hour at some shit job, you put in overtime regularly and gross about 3,000 a month. That's enough to qualify for about a 150,000-200,000 mortgage, depending on your other debts. If you did the 150,000 mortgage, you could also be able to do 10% or less down.

In California a mortgage like that isn't putting you near any urban areas, but in most parts of the country you can live in the suburbs

Quote: (05-16-2017 07:55 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  

He's not wrong. I'm in my 20s, my house is over 800,000 and that's on an entry level salary plus wife working part time.

I think a lot of people make excuses for why they can't afford a down payment when they don't realize how cheap and accessible a mortgage is.

I have another friend who lives 30 minutes away living in a fixer upper he bought for 250,000 with 10,000 down. I think a lot of millennials don't plan to buy a house, but they don't realize how affordable it is, and instead just bitch it's impossibly expensive.

You can qualify for a house with payments being 45% of your gross income.

And what happens if the economy crashes, house prices drop and/or you lose your job? A fixer upper worth 250K with 10K down is still 240K owed - that's not exactly chump change.

If a person loses a 15 dollar an hour job and can't replace it in the same day, then they need to go get more education or better experience.

Also, in my friends case, he has two roommates who basically pay the mortgage/taxes while he lives rent free.

In my case, the mortgage could be paid off by renting out rooms as well, but I don't want to do that

The Aussie housing market is so inflated by negative gearing and foreign investment, that it's about to burst at any second. It would be foolish to buy into the system until the prices are slashed.Smaashed avocado or not.

If you live in Australia or a nation with similar housing issues and you want to start a family then my stern advice is to buy in the country for peanuts and accept the drop in earning power you have out in the sticks (or accept a hell of a commute).

Once you factor in health, low crime, right wing politics and good lifestyle, it's not even a choice any more, particularly when it comes to choosing the kind of surrounds you want to raise children in.

Articles like these have nothing to do with the actual opinions of elites and wannabe-elites, but represent a carefully forged propaganda item meant to muddle the waters and divide the people.

Millennials being spendthrifty spoiled cunts in general is totally true, but that problem is like a drop in the ocean compared to the wider issue of deteriorating economy, unemployment and inflation (all cleverly hidden through massaged statistics). As SamuelBRoberts said earlier, a common person nowadays is no more able to afford a house than they are able to afford a private jet. It's an inane fantasy to think that they will be able to afford those no matter how much they cut back on avocados, meat, rice or even toilet paper. The truth is actually the opposite: millennials could survive the current problems better if they were more responsible, but it wouldn't save them from those problems, not by a long shot.

Another common deception tactic the elites push through the media is vastly inflating and over-representing the expected costs of living in order to make anyone complaining about the economy seem like a spoiled millennial bitch. For example, there was recently an article in a Croatian newspaper arguing that a family-of-four needs $3000 / month (!!!) in order to live a "dignified life". Their ludicrous "dignified life" package included going to the cinema three times per month, two trips abroad per year, two cars and an assortment of "gifts", "events" and "having fun".

The average blue-pilled person reading that crap would then logically think: "Wow, if these morons really expect all that, then it's no wonder they're unhappy.", feel good about their own reasonable expectations and would never spare a second more to ponder the elephant in the room: "Is the economy fucked or not?"

^ This as well

We're all hustlers here, but we often live in denial of how fucked the economy is. I know, I know, complaining about the economy is victim/beta/omega/Hillary bullshit, BUT the economy in USA IS FUCKED.

In China, I can lose my job, laugh at my boss and find a new job within a few days. No questions asked.

Back home? Losing my job at this bullshit learning center hurt hard. Really hard.

NJ is one of the richest states per capita but the job market is cutthroat as well.

Moving was also not an option back then because I didn't have the capital to afford moving cross country to a good economy like in Colorado for a new job. Not saying it's anyone's fault but my own but that is the reality for many of us young dudes.

The irony? It was cheaper for me to move abroad to China than it was for me to move across the country and try to set up and find work.

Dangerous, risky and borderline disastrous? Hell yeah.

Shit's real, though.

Everyone here is missing the best option for millenials






Costs no money, energy efficient, good for the environment. Just a bit of time and effort!

Yeah most of the guys here are not going to bitch and moan that the world didn't hand riches to us on a silver platter like some other generations, but the fuck if we're going to be lectured by a bunch of fat, lazy fucking boomers about how the only reason we're not balls deep in the property market is because we're a bunch of shiftless God-damned avocado-addicts.

And we're not going to pay for your pensions either, cunts.

First Apple was to blame, now avocados!

Quote: (05-16-2017 02:06 AM)Arminius Wrote:  

Quote: (05-15-2017 11:30 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

Quote: (05-15-2017 11:14 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Quote: (05-15-2017 10:58 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

Ok so what advice would you give to a 19-20yr old starting out?

I have absolutely no idea, which is what worries me. My own field is closed off to new applicants, it's getting smaller every year thanks to automation. This seems to be the case everywhere I look. Everybody is cutting back. Nobody is hiring. I've been okay by expanding my network of contacts, but that's for ME, and I'm getting those jobs from taking them from other people.

I have not the slightest idea what I could tell somebody that age to do, particularly if they didn't have the +115 IQ required for an engineering degree.

"Something something skilled trades"? Maybe?

Automation is definitely going to put a lot of people out of work but as old fields get destroyed, new fields will pop up.

First, what fields are these, homie?

Second, will the left side of the bell curve be able to be employed in these fields?

The answer to that is an overwhelming, unequivocal "No."

We need to start talking now about a guaranteed minimum income for the less intelligent among us, because the Hamptons are not in fact a defensible position.

Oh that idea has been around a long time and more than just talked about.

Quote: (05-16-2017 09:15 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

, but the fuck if we're going to be lectured by a bunch of fat, lazy fucking boomers about how the only reason we're not balls deep in the property market is because we're a bunch of shiftless God-damned avocado-addicts.

And we're not going to pay for your pensions either, cunts.

I have the money to comfortably make a big down payment on a house and pay a relatively low mortgage.

Why should I?

I don't need a house without a wife and kids. While I'm only supporting myself, give me a kitchen, a bathroom, and a bedroom and I will be fine just stacking up my money for whatever I want. I'm not getting married without reasonable assurance that I have a wife who would not frivolously divorce me and take away the kids and half my savings. Until then I'm content to just live above my office with a 30 second commute on foot that further saves me money compared to driving.

The only certain scenario I foresee buying a house is when the housing market inevitably collapses, and I may do that only to flip the house later when the market rebounds anyway.

This appears to be happening on a worldwide basis in the more developed countries: Young people not buying houses.

Decades of the US government fetishization of home-ownership (especially for minorities) and penchant for loose money in bad times (but not tight money in good times) have been sources of pressure to keep US long-term (e.g. 10 to 30-year) interest rates down, and thus US mortgage rates down. This makes long-term US financial instruments higher in price, thus lowering the quantity demanded of US instruments and increases the quantity demanded for other countries' instruments, thus lowering their long-term interest rates, and thus their mortgage rates.

This leads to overly easy financing for commercial loans and residential mortgages (on top of any loose policies countries may pursue domestically, and/or policies encouraging home-ownership). Overly easy financing means over-consumption, and thus after a few decades of consumers taking advantage, millenials are now staring into markets where land and housing prices are too steep for them, easy financing or not.

Widespread and easily available porn certainly reduces the demand from young men to want to settle down, as it's a sexual outlet and thus a form of substitution for a substantial amount of the benefits a live-in girlfriend or wife provides--especially if potential girlfriends or wives don't have home-making skills.

Another phenomenon, that I never see mentioned, is that porn makes men sub-consciously think (or perhaps, realize) that women, in general, are not as innocent and chaste as they present themselves.

It's not like Joe Six-Pack is sitting around pondering, "from the quantity of girls that appear in professional or amateur porn, it seems that girls are more promiscuous than polite society would suggest, and thus I should update my Bayesian priors and reduce my emotional and financial investment in women," but rather it takes its toll subtly.

They might not even have a voice in their heads that says, "Why should I devote my life to a woman, when so many of them are but a few hundred dollars away from getting fucked by strangers (or even animals) on film?"

It's subtle, but the end result is the same, an increased instinctual reluctance to devote oneself to a woman, like an instinctual reluctance to put your hand on a hot stove or stick your dick in a pet python's cage.

Quote: (05-16-2017 11:18 AM)Kabal Wrote:  

It's not like Joe Six-Pack is sitting around pondering, "from the quantity of girls that appear in professional or amateur porn, it seems that girls are more promiscuous than polite society would suggest, and thus I should update my Bayesian priors and reduce my emotional and financial investment in women," but rather it takes its toll subtly.

I swear to god that's the funniest shit i've read in a long time.

Even if a guy wanted to wife up he would have trouble doing so. Being a beta chump doesn't attract any woman nowadays. Having a decent well paid job, a house, stability etc are quite surprisingly a huge turn off. The typical Western woman would rather ride the carousel with the broke guy next door who smokes pot rather than marry a "boring" guy who 30-40 years ago would've been a good catch.

I think that both millenials and system in on blame. Young simply don´t have need to "build" something or start family and it´s easier to spend money on pleasures, they are being programmed to it. I am 24 and when I look at my friends, I can´t think of any of them going this way. They are simply with their parents or just living from day to day. Buying a house is more "family thing", but who is about to start family in early 20s.

I personally take buying own house as one of life priorities. I feel it like security, whatever happens to you in your life, you have still where to live. Also property is good monetary tool and I think one of the safest investments.
I would like to take mortgage as soon as possible. I am very bounded to place, where I gres up, so there´s not an option, that I would buy a house somewhere else. Unfortunately, I have to work 80 miles away. So I am thinking about option, that I would minimalize living cost at my work-city and buy a house together with my girlfriend in the city I come from. I will be able to come back there in 5 years. Second option is buying property in work-city with intention of selling it. But I am not sure, if this is good place for such investment.

Quote: (05-16-2017 07:55 AM)Sonoma Wrote:  

Example: You're earning 15 dollars an hour at some shit job, you put in overtime regularly and gross about 3,000 a month. That's enough to qualify for about a 150,000-200,000 mortgage, depending on your other debts. If you did the 150,000 mortgage, you could also be able to do 10% or less down.

In California a mortgage like that isn't putting you near any urban areas, but in most parts of the country you can live in the suburbs

I was grossing $3300 every two weeks breaking my back and sweating my nuts off for 65 hours a week at a factory in the bay area, so $85,800 a year. Guess what that was after Uncle Sam and the communists in the California state government got done with it?

$1950, so barely $50,000. That won't even get you a cardboard BOX in most urban areas, and damn sure not in the bay area.

All I could get was a room in a house with five other men, many of whom (people rotated through constantly) were foreigners who had been invited into the United States by big businesses, to do jobs that Americans can't or won't do, of course.

I knew guys in the military, who were still in when I got that factory job, who would have gotten out immediately if they could have made ends meet working there, but there was no way. There are so many foreigners who have been brought in that the population, and therefore housing costs, are out of control and there is no way regular people can afford to work and live in these urban areas. That's not even including the massive cultural shifts that come with this process, where Americans with ancestors going back to the Mayflower feel like foreigners in their own country when three and four year old children are speaking Hindi, Marathi, Gujarati, Spanish and Mandarin with their parents at the store.

Far left governments, insane taxation even on the regular working folks, and immigration - it's a fucking mess. This country is going downhill at an alarming rate and I don't see even a glimmer of a way out.

My vote for Trump was intended to serve as nothing more than two giant middle fingers in the faces of the multitudinous vermin that created this perfect storm of shit.

It seems another Millenial vs the people that fucked it up for them thread has arrived. And please allow me to ramble a little.

While it is easy for everyone to talk bad about the other, and in some cases, talk as if they have their shit together, it doesn't change the situation you are in. Only getting access to real information, dedication and work can make your life better. I am sure there are some other variables - but you get my point.

I suggest not to take the comments too personally. I am sensing some have some serious pain over their financial situations and it is difficult to make peace with their situation. But dwelling on it robs you of energy to move forward. Just like for maybe some of the older guys (the ones that are accused of stealing the millenial's futures) are stuck with life regrets. Everyone in life has some cross to bear.

Better to focus on what will improve your lives than dwelling on stuff that cannot be changed. Each generation has their plusses and minuses. However, when debating it is a rare person that will try and be fair and objective. But as a man, I suggest that you continue to refine your ability to be fair and objective, these are strong qualities that will serve you well in life. It doesn't make you a pussy.

For those looking at buying real estate, keep in mind your ability to buy is heavily dependent on your income. For some, they just don't want that burden. That ball and chain. I never wanted the 30 year burden. I leveraged my income to make RE investments which is different than buying a place to live in. I've had wins and losses, it isn't for everyone. And it isn't easy and anyone telling you it is doesn't know what they are talking about. And I would avoid taking RE investment advice from people whose only RE investment is their primary residence. There is a reason banks want to know your net worth excluding your house. Because it really isn't an investment.

There are cycles and we could easily see pain like we did on 2008. And I remember before the crash, people were acting like they had invented the cure for cancer. They just happened to ride the market. Some by luck and some by calculated risk taking. But the market is always right, so just be careful.

It is very difficult for a person to keep their wits about them. But if you can, you will do well.

@lukewarmchillin great post - I admire your hard work and dedication.

There are many young guys on this forum who have accomplished much and mock the generalities made about Millenials like Suits. Look to them for inspiration and not your peers who are not as driven.

Thanks for letting me ramble.

Edit: for those with much anger (over anything not just this Millenial topic), it probably means there is much hurt/sadness. Work on your pain, it will be well worth the investment and hopefully prevent actions/decisions that will harm you in the future. We all have something, I am no exception.