[kosko]

Conservatively your shelter should cost more than 35% of your gross, of course location can tweak this but it is a good general number to stay under to ensure you are not over your head.

[Paracelsus]

(05-16-2017 09:36 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

This is one of those issues where some people are talking about personal finances and others are talking about societal trends, neither of which are related on a tangible level.

I could open up a payday lending branch in my sleepy little town with notable unemployment rates and probably make a shit-ton of money. This would benefit me in a financial sense. My town? Not so much.

Gated mansions are nice, sure. But are they democracy proof? Are they communist-revolution proof? Are they even gang proof?

Don't have to be. Like someone was saying over in the Venezuela thread, the low to middle class prepper has a stockpile of consumer goods and a cabin in the woods. The upper class prepper has a stockpile of jet fuel and a plane in a hangar with a pilot on speed dial.

[Tigre]

(05-15-2017 10:47 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Not as much as you might think:
Boise is hitting record highs for home prices.

In Columbus, rising rents are making neighborhoods unaffordable.

And Indy is hitting record highs as well.

Consider the possibility that 30 and 50 years ago, house prices were probably at record highs too.

A different way to look at this issue -- what kind of sacrifices are millenials prepared to make if it would mean being able to buy their own home?

Move to Idaho?

Do some punishing oil sands type work in an isolated location for an 18 month stretch?

Move to a different country where the wages are higher to save money?

Get married at 21 so that you can bring two incomes to bear on the goal of home ownership?

It's ridiculous to think that previous generations didn't have to make sacrifices to get ahead. By contrast, recent generations lack perseverance and are too quick to give up.

[Fortis]

(05-16-2017 11:47 PM)Tigre Wrote:  

(05-15-2017 10:47 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Not as much as you might think:
Boise is hitting record highs for home prices.

In Columbus, rising rents are making neighborhoods unaffordable.

And Indy is hitting record highs as well.

Consider the possibility that 30 and 50 years ago, house prices were probably at record highs too.

A different way to look at this issue -- what kind of sacrifices are millenials prepared to make if it would mean being able to buy their own home?

Move to Idaho?

Do some punishing oil sands type work in an isolated location for an 18 month stretch?

Move to a different country where the wages are higher to save money?

Get married at 21 so that you can bring two incomes to bear on the goal of home ownership?

It's ridiculous to think that previous generations didn't have to make sacrifices to get ahead. By contrast, recent generations lack perseverance and are too quick to give up.

This still doesn't really answer the question of "why should I want a house?"

The only arguments I get are "it'll be worth a lot of money in X years"

and "you get to raise a family there!"

Neither of those is really compelling reasons to me. Sure, maybe I'm lazy for not wanting to own a house and deal with all the upkeep costs that come with it, but whatever.

I've graded my expectations.

Is my life perfect? Hell no, but I have more money than I've ever had, I save more than I ever have and life's good. How would a house help improve this set up in any way?

My father and grandparents own multiple houses and it just seems like a constant stream of repairs and other nonsense.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from house ownership if that is what they want, but many of us aren't interested in that.

This is Boomers projecting their values and stuff onto us. Never before has man been able to work abroad, make money in USD and live in a location truly of his choosing.

This literally does not process for Boomers. Try explaining geoarbitrage to your grandparents. They'd laugh you out of the room and tell you to buy a house, get a "good" job and marry a "good" girl, but it's real, we can do it and we get to save more in the long run.

Before you were largely stuck where you were born and maybe you had the option to move if you joined the military or had parents wealthy enough to fund a big move to another part of the country/world for you.

Now? I can just say "fuck this shit. I'm moving abroad and fuck all that noise about social security, pensions, houses, cars and those other Ponzi schemes."

It isn't about being angry, not saving money or all the other stuff this article is talking about, it's largely about being able to make choices that we want that run contrary to the narrative that they want us to play into.

Sorry, I'm not going to work like a slave for 15 an hour 40 hours a week, when I can work 15 hours a week in china and make more money and have ample time for lucrative side hustles.

I think this article doesn't take into account that many millennials aspire for things beyond just owning a house, having 2 kids, a wife, a car and all that other stuff that Boomers wanted.

If they wanted us to want those things, they should have left enough cookies in the cookie jar for that to happen. My grandparents recently talked with me about buying a house and I literally could not wrap my head around why I would want to be shackled to a random piece of property for 30+ years when I can live in a warm asian country surrounded by women and cool opportunities : huh:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have 0 regrets.

[Arminius]

The Uncomfortable Truth About American Wages


"When we consider all working-age men, including those who are not working, the real earnings of the median male have actually declined by 19 percent since 1970. This means that the median man in 2010 earned as much as the median man did in 1964 — nearly a half century ago. Men with less education face an even bleaker picture; earnings for the median man with a high school diploma and no further schooling fell by 41 percent from 1970 to 2010."

   

[StrikeBack]

No amount of pitiful savings from latte and avocado can make up for this:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-24/sy...ey/8206676

Median multiple = avg house price / avg household income

Quote:

Rank: Least affordableCityMedian multiple
1Hong Kong18.1
2Sydney, NSW12.2
3Vancouver, Canada11.8
4Santa Cruz, USA11.6
5Santa Barbara, USA11.3
6Auckland, NZ10
7Wingcaribbee, NSW9.8
8Tweed Heads, NSW9.7
9San Jose, USA9.6
10Melbourne, VIC9.5

[Stun]

(05-16-2017 11:47 PM)Tigre Wrote:  

Consider the possibility that 30 and 50 years ago, house prices were probably at record highs too.

Maybe, but they were also 2-3x the average annual salary, not 6-10x.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

A lot of good posts here and as usual folk are right - Millennials being thrown back to the 1960s or 70s would do fine. If you took away their Iphones and Ipads they would cry a bit for a while, but then realize that they do better without it.

This is the main reason why they cannot afford houses. Exceptions or very smart economically Red Pill entrepreneurs just prove the rule and are not applicable to the majority:



In the 1980s and 90s the rising standard of living was upheld by:

+ women starting incresingly to work even at Middle Class families
+ credit card and other debts being rolled out (in the 1970s most people did not have credit cards and their debt ratio was low)
+ rising property values if you bought them a long time ago

But with all debt bubbles - it pops unless people actually make good money.





Note the real one in grey.



Reasons for this:

+ immigration - wage pressure at the bottom (now increasingly also for well-paid white-collar jobs in IT)
+ off-shoring of manufacturing and well-paid jobs
+ off-shoring of service sector like call-centers
+ feminism and wage pressure of women pushing into all industries
+ technological unemployment and elimination of work that is not replaced with other work



Changing consumption patterns, technological changes impacting Millennials do not matter much. Also the number of Millennials who are Red Pilled and avoiding marriage and the Hamster-wheel for ideological concerns are ridiculously low.

It's the economy stupid! Individually some men can succeed, on a macro-level it is utterly impossible for the new generation to reach the disposable income and standard of living of their parents or grand-parents (discounting technology which improves standard of living even if you are poorer).

And I hate to sound like a socialist here, but I am not. I am for interest free money with demurrage, strong unions, high tariffs, low or close to zero income taxes, low regulations and low taxes for companies. If you don't have to pay state-usury then 50% of all prices come down, also if you add demurrage to part of your currency you increase the velocity of money. And of course you have tariffs on anything you produce well in your country - Avocados - zero tariffs, cars 100-200%, the Japanese and Germans can always open factories in the US and hire American workers at decent wages if they want to sell to Americans, strong unions are also a no-brainer. But either way - you won't get any of that but more globalism, more trade unions, more off-shoring, more feminism, less well-paid jobs, essentially a 80% underclass vs a 20% well-off part of the economy. Gini-coefficient will rise constantly in the US to the detriment of the country. In the future the new generation might actually vote in real marxists thinking that those buggers will improve things, but of course they won't.

[Paracelsus]

(05-17-2017 01:09 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

(05-16-2017 11:47 PM)Tigre Wrote:  

(05-15-2017 10:47 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

Not as much as you might think:
Boise is hitting record highs for home prices.

In Columbus, rising rents are making neighborhoods unaffordable.

And Indy is hitting record highs as well.

Consider the possibility that 30 and 50 years ago, house prices were probably at record highs too.

A different way to look at this issue -- what kind of sacrifices are millenials prepared to make if it would mean being able to buy their own home?

Move to Idaho?

Do some punishing oil sands type work in an isolated location for an 18 month stretch?

Move to a different country where the wages are higher to save money?

Get married at 21 so that you can bring two incomes to bear on the goal of home ownership?

It's ridiculous to think that previous generations didn't have to make sacrifices to get ahead. By contrast, recent generations lack perseverance and are too quick to give up.

This still doesn't really answer the question of "why should I want a house?"

The only arguments I get are "it'll be worth a lot of money in X years"

and "you get to raise a family there!"

Neither of those is really compelling reasons to me. Sure, maybe I'm lazy for not wanting to own a house and deal with all the upkeep costs that come with it, but whatever.

I've graded my expectations.

Is my life perfect? Hell no, but I have more money than I've ever had, I save more than I ever have and life's good. How would a house help improve this set up in any way?

My father and grandparents own multiple houses and it just seems like a constant stream of repairs and other nonsense.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from house ownership if that is what they want, but many of us aren't interested in that.

This is Boomers projecting their values and stuff onto us. Never before has man been able to work abroad, make money in USD and live in a location truly of his choosing.

This literally does not process for Boomers. Try explaining geoarbitrage to your grandparents. They'd laugh you out of the room and tell you to buy a house, get a "good" job and marry a "good" girl, but it's real, we can do it and we get to save more in the long run.

Before you were largely stuck where you were born and maybe you had the option to move if you joined the military or had parents wealthy enough to fund a big move to another part of the country/world for you.

Now? I can just say "fuck this shit. I'm moving abroad and fuck all that noise about social security, pensions, houses, cars and those other Ponzi schemes."

It isn't about being angry, not saving money or all the other stuff this article is talking about, it's largely about being able to make choices that we want that run contrary to the narrative that they want us to play into.

Sorry, I'm not going to work like a slave for 15 an hour 40 hours a week, when I can work 15 hours a week in china and make more money and have ample time for lucrative side hustles.

I think this article doesn't take into account that many millennials aspire for things beyond just owning a house, having 2 kids, a wife, a car and all that other stuff that Boomers wanted.

If they wanted us to want those things, they should have left enough cookies in the cookie jar for that to happen. My grandparents recently talked with me about buying a house and I literally could not wrap my head around why I would want to be shackled to a random piece of property for 30+ years when I can live in a warm asian country surrounded by women and cool opportunities : huh:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have 0 regrets.

Some random thoughts on all this, without any criticism:

(1) Be prepared for age changing your perspective. Odds are you will not want or be interested in the same things at age 25 as at age 40+. No matter how much iron you pump or how many multivitamins you ingest, your hormones are going to change and with it your priorities at least in some small degree. Of course, this can go in opposite directions: a man who's grown up and lived the wife/2 kids/dog existence since his early 20s without some other purpose in his life is highly likely to go looking to buy a fast car and fuck college girls.

(2) About the only element that's been left out of this analysis is the issue of legacy to your kids, if you have them. I'd like to think that's one reason a lot of parents buy a house, or houses: not just so you have a place to live, but so you have something to leave to your sons and daughters after you're gone. But there is a crucial instinct or drive missing from a good portion of the Baby Boomer generation and thus the generations following: the desire to see your kids do better than you did, the desire to give your kids a better life than you had. There is a reason the phrase "Spending The Kids' Inheritance" went from edgy to meme to bad joke: because before the Baby Boomers, no other generation did it. Part of the reason house prices are insanely high is simply because there is no real desire to move the ball forward, to make our kids' lives better than ours were, to enable them to go where we went but then go further. That was something Mafia families always got right: they were never content to just leave their kids the running of guns and drugs, they often tried to push the businesses into legitimate endeavours, go respectable.

(3) On the other hand, legacy can be twisted too. I've seen what happens when a conniving old bitch plays off her adult children one against the other and basically use the fact that if they don't stay on her good side, they'll lose out massively on the inheritance.

[NightVale]

This quote is from another interview from the same guy.

Quote:

Mr Gurner began his career as a property investor after purchasing a gym in Melbourne’s south in 2001 with the help of $34,000 borrowed from his grandfather.

Every one of these "you'd have a house if you just worked hard and saved money" articles involve people who were given money by a relative. The most arrogant one had the author moving into their parent's house and also get given a shitload of money by their parents to buy an investment property which they rented out. That was the money they put aside for a deposit to buy another property and were loudly crowing that everyone could do it.

[zatara]

(05-17-2017 01:24 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

No amount of pitiful savings from latte and avocado can make up for this:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-24/sy...ey/8206676

Median multiple = avg house price / avg household income

Quote:

Rank: Least affordableCityMedian multiple
1Hong Kong18.1
2Sydney, NSW12.2
3Vancouver, Canada11.8
4Santa Cruz, USA11.6
5Santa Barbara, USA11.3
6Auckland, NZ10
7Wingcaribbee, NSW9.8
8Tweed Heads, NSW9.7
9San Jose, USA9.6
10Melbourne, VIC9.5

This is the best, shortest, way to completely sum up the issue. When average house prices rise from 3xmedian income to 12xmedian income its just a completely unsustainable situation.

Medium-term either house prices fall significantly, or wages rise significantly. The latter seems more unlikely.

[Stallion]

Is the situation worse than ever? Who the fuck cares? instead of whining about it, do something about it.

A) American millenials complaining about student debt... I know plenty of Americans who got their STEM degrees FOR FREE at top EU universities...
A friend of mine is studying at the top European uni (EPFL) which ranks next to Harvard or Stanford on world rankings... He works as a waiter and it's enough to cover tuition+living cost+save a few hundred per month.

So there are options out there. If you didn't bother to research them, or are too lazy or afraid to move your ass, it's your own fault, don't blame anyone else than you.

B) same for work. Millenials with skills are still finding jobs easily and getting good wages. I regullarly get unsolicited messages on LinkedIn to do interviewss. If you are not, it's your fault because you didn't build those skills, so stop bitching.

Many of my Spanish engineer friends whine about the situation... 50% youth unemployment, salaries close to minimum wage even for experienced engineers, you name it.

Yet when I tell them about a job opportunity that pays 5 times their current salary, in a company who plans to hire 200 engineers within the next year... all of them chicken out because they would have to get out of their comfort zone (relocate) to get the job.

Yet the little bitches still whine about how "Stallion you are so lucky to find all those amazing jobs". Dude, if I recommend you, I guarantee that you get the job, and you don't want to, so stop saying I'm lucky.

End of rant.

[StrikeBack]

If all young people move to another state for employment, the original state won't exist anymore.

If they all move to another country for education and employment, their mother country will be no more.

Solutions that work for individuals can be hugely detrimental to society and country.

[Stallion]

(05-17-2017 06:04 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

If all young people move to another state for employment, the original state won't exist anymore.

If they all move to another country for education and employment, their mother country will be no more.

Solutions that work for individuals can be hugely detrimental to society and country.

That is totally true, and I still don't care. I'm more important than society and my country.

The above examples are about relocation, but what I wanted to speak about is the fact of "complaining instead of doing". I'm sure there are many local examples of this attitude too, but I've relocated so I don't see them.

Plus, when people start moving, it changes the local economy too. That's actually what has happened here (I'm working in Prague now).

Most local engineers went to other places because "meh, american dream baby" so now they have to import foreign engineers at 10 times the average national salary (and Czech engineers are coming back now that they can make the same money locally than abroad).

We live live in a global economy where people can switch continents within a weeks notice, adapt or die.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

(05-17-2017 06:13 AM)Stallion Wrote:  

(05-17-2017 06:04 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

If all young people move to another state for employment, the original state won't exist anymore.

If they all move to another country for education and employment, their mother country will be no more.

Solutions that work for individuals can be hugely detrimental to society and country.

That is totally true, and I still don't care. I'm more important than society and my country.

The above examples are about relocation, but what I wanted to speak about is the fact of "complaining instead of doing". I'm sure there are many local examples of this attitude too, but I've relocated so I don't see them.

Plus, when people start moving, it changes the local economy too. That's actually what has happened here (I'm working in Prague now).

Most local engineers went to other places because "meh, american dream baby" so now they have to import foreign engineers at 10 times the average national salary (and Czech engineers are coming back now that they can make the same money locally than abroad).

We live live in a global economy where people can switch continents within a weeks notice, adapt or die.

You may not care, but you should care.

If the economic differences between classes are ripped asunder, then even you in your Lamborghini need constant security and the country descends to anarchy sooner or later.

Solutions abound and individually we can do plenty. But even if you become a millionaire or billionaire, this does not change a 50% unemployment rate among under 30yo men.

You should talk to older guys who remember the 1970s or 80s in prosperous countries like Germany or the US. Anyone off a college, vocational school or not even any school at all getting work instantly - employers begging for you to stay. Instead you have 2000 applicants for a janitor job in the US.

Telling everyone to paddle harder while the bottom 20% is already drowning is useless advice.

This is a general article not an individual column on how to make it big while most stay poor.

[Fortis]

Stallion, please tell us more about how we are all lazy good for nothings who need to sack up, work harder and buy a house. You sound a lot like a 1-dimensional MSM newscaster reading off a teleprompter. Take that garbage elsewhere.

No one in here is saying that we deserve to be handed everything that our grandparents' generation had but to say that it's all not a problem and that we all just need to work harder and immigrate is, quite frankly, bullshit.

I immigrated and I like it, but that is not a long-term solution to fixing the issue at hand: an entire generation that has been barred from homeownership by toxic debt, stagnant wages and an inflated real estate market.

People like yourself and the writer of the article continuously ignore that while some people (like you, myself and others) might be able to do fine in this economy, a VAST number of men our age are sitting in mom's basement crunching through bags of Doritos, playing WOW and literally not even aspiring to all the things that their parents and grandparents did.

That isn't just because of "YOU NEED TO WORK HARDER FAGGOT" or "lOL STOP BUYING AVOCADOS AND SAVE $5.50 EVERYWEEK AND YOU'LL HAVE A HOUSE IN 80 YEARS," it's an actual crisis that is terrifying the fuck out of boomers since many of them and their kids are depending on my generation to pay into social security and pensions. Old people in the next few decades are either going to be eating cat food and living in tents out in the wilderness or something will need to change.


I'm not saying it's all on them either. Humans are short sighted and I might have raided the cookie jar just like the boomers did if I was in their shoes, but this is hardly a problem that can be solved by just "working harder and saving" so don't just come in this thread dick swinging and expect your rah rah bullshit to be taken seriously. You might not give a fuck about other people but many on this forum do actually give a fuck about what happens.



Paracelsus I feel ya on the house thing for prosperity and all that. I am still pretty much on the fence about kids and I have even made some choices that might bar me from having kids in the future, so I don't really factor that in. Either way, thank you for that perspective that wasn't just pundit chest thumping.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(05-17-2017 05:53 AM)Stallion Wrote:  

Is the situation worse than ever? Who the fuck cares? instead of whining about it, do something about it.

A) American millenials complaining about student debt... I know plenty of Americans who got their STEM degrees FOR FREE at top EU universities...
A friend of mine is studying at the top European uni (EPFL) which ranks next to Harvard or Stanford on world rankings... He works as a waiter and it's enough to cover tuition+living cost+save a few hundred per month.

So there are options out there. If you didn't bother to research them, or are too lazy or afraid to move your ass, it's your own fault, don't blame anyone else than you.

B) same for work. Millenials with skills are still finding jobs easily and getting good wages. I regullarly get unsolicited messages on LinkedIn to do interviewss. If you are not, it's your fault because you didn't build those skills, so stop bitching.

Many of my Spanish engineer friends whine about the situation... 50% youth unemployment, salaries close to minimum wage even for experienced engineers, you name it.

Yet when I tell them about a job opportunity that pays 5 times their current salary, in a company who plans to hire 200 engineers within the next year... all of them chicken out because they would have to get out of their comfort zone (relocate) to get the job.

Yet the little bitches still whine about how "Stallion you are so lucky to find all those amazing jobs". Dude, if I recommend you, I guarantee that you get the job, and you don't want to, so stop saying I'm lucky.

End of rant.

Remove head from ass. Read OP. Contribute something other than self flattery. (Stallion apologised)

Frankly it's high time that residential properties were recognised as a semi-finite resource and that buying them as an investment was taxed out of profitability.

Fuck the boomers. This problem would have already been solved but for the very virtue of their generation being an abnormally large generational voting bloc. Now that they're dying off we only have to fight the banks on this.

People with a shit-ton of money can invest in other shit that doesn't leave families on the rental-roundabout. Prospective parents with one and a half incomes are not going to be upset about being priced out of the stock market or getting lower returns for their dollar when buying gold. They just want a place to call their own and that's not unreasonable in any nation that values community and everything that flows on from that.

And anyone that gives zero fucks about their people, their nation or their culture can go suck a dick.

[Stallion]

yeah, I reread that and I did sound like a pretentious douche. My bad for not reading the whole thread, I totally missed the point about home ownership vs wages.

[Fortis]

(05-17-2017 06:54 AM)Stallion Wrote:  

yeah, I reread that and I did sound like a pretentious douche. My bad for not reading the whole thread, I totally missed the point about home ownership vs wages.

It's all good. Respect to you for admitting it.

[Blaster]

Quote:

Is my life perfect? Hell no, but I have more money than I've ever had, I save more than I ever have and life's good. How would a house help improve this set up in any way?

For what it's worth, I bought a house at roughly the point in my life that I was ready to have one. I was sick of the noise, traffic and smells of the city. I wanted to start a family, wanted to have space for that family to live, and wanted to live in a good school district. When the time came, I had plenty of savings for a down payment, I had great credit, and zero pre-existing debt. I did not buy one before that.

A riskier scenario that would have payed off for me financially, would have been to scrape up everything possible to afford a "new-home-buyer" mortgage on a $450,000 condo in the city, which had appreciated to $650,000 by the time I was ready to move into a real house. But that's 20/20 hindsight, and it's not like $200,000 appreciation means $200,000 in your pocket once you take into account taxes, closing fees, interest, PMI (which you may have to pay if your downpayment is insufficient), and maintenance. In the same hindsight I also could have invested in bitcoin for huge returns. To me the extra risk and stress wasn't worth it.

[Tigre]

(05-17-2017 01:09 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

This literally does not process for Boomers. Try explaining geoarbitrage to your grandparents. They'd laugh you out of the room and tell you to buy a house, get a "good" job and marry a "good" girl, but it's real, we can do it and we get to save more in the long run.

Before you were largely stuck where you were born and maybe you had the option to move if you joined the military or had parents wealthy enough to fund a big move to another part of the country/world for you.

Now? I can just say "fuck this shit. I'm moving abroad and fuck all that noise about social security, pensions, houses, cars and those other Ponzi schemes."

Why not both?

Why not move abroad and also buy property abroad? You are earning dollars, right? Surely it's cheaper then?

Isn't that a better world of opportunities than what your grandparents had?

Do the principles of earning an income from capital vs labor suddenly change once you pass through the airport departure gate?

Maybe that's why they are confused about your explanation.

"So boy wonder is teaching us about geoarbitrage, but it seems the only place you can buy property is here?"

[Fortis]

(05-17-2017 10:10 AM)Tigre Wrote:  

(05-17-2017 01:09 AM)Fortis Wrote:  

This literally does not process for Boomers. Try explaining geoarbitrage to your grandparents. They'd laugh you out of the room and tell you to buy a house, get a "good" job and marry a "good" girl, but it's real, we can do it and we get to save more in the long run.

Before you were largely stuck where you were born and maybe you had the option to move if you joined the military or had parents wealthy enough to fund a big move to another part of the country/world for you.

Now? I can just say "fuck this shit. I'm moving abroad and fuck all that noise about social security, pensions, houses, cars and those other Ponzi schemes."

Why not both?

Why not move abroad and also buy property abroad? You are earning dollars, right? Surely it's cheaper then?

Isn't that a better world of opportunities than what your grandparents had?

Do the principles of earning an income from capital vs labor suddenly change once you pass through the airport departure gate?

Maybe that's why they are confused about your explanation.

"So boy wonder is teaching us about geoarbitrage, but it seems the only place you can buy property is here?"

Good luck buying property in China tier-1. The apartments are small and they are just as expensive as houses back home. Tier-2 to 3 china might be cheaper as far as property value goes, but then you're stuck dealing with Tier 2-3 Chinese bullshit (not worth it for most western men).

Not to mention, you don't really own the property. After 70 years you have to "renegotiate" with the government regarding your "ownership" of the apartment/house. The best part about that is that it's a new law so no one has even owned property long enough to see what this even entails.



I don't know about the rest of Asia, but many Asian governments are notoriously xenophobic and draconian when it comes to property and foreigners. They are almost irrationally biased against you.

You often need a co-signer who is native (wife) and if she decides to fuck you over you have ZERO legal recourse. She could just tell you to leave, and the house is under her name so the courts will dismiss you and any claim you think you have to that property.

Bottomline: I really don't care about owning a house or much in the way of property. Having lived by the skin of my teeth for so long throughout my late teens and early twenties, I've gotten used to it. I don't own much, don't want to own much and like living frugal and lean.

I'm 28 and not looking to get married for at least another 7 years if even, so this house still is just really not an interest to me. The most I'm doing is just saving. I suspect my motivations and values may change between now and 35, so I'll have the capita. I'm just not spending it unless I truly want to shackle myself to a single location for 30+ years.

[debeguiled]

Free castles in Italy though.

http://inhabitat.com/italy-is-giving-awa...-for-free/






Official Site:

http://www.agenziademanio.it/opencms/it/...epercorsi/

[Jetset]

(05-17-2017 11:52 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  

Yes, yes, but is it centrally located to nightlife?

[tomzestatlu]

Well, my mom lives with her friend and if he left her, she would end up with my younger sister without home, because she couldn´t pay rent on her own.. Maybe that´s why I see this thing differently, than guy whose parents and grandparents own multiple houses. Yes, we can say it´s her fault, because she didn´t try harder to get better qualification to earn more money, but there always will be people with minimum wage.

Small house costs 100x my month income and I have above average salary. I spend 25% of my salary on paying the rent. I am not able to save a lot of from my salary and when I do, from time to time I have to spend it on mandatory stuff. I don´t live minimalistic lifestyle, but I don´t waste money and carefully choose what to spend it on. Even if I pushed minimalistic lifestyle hard, I would n´t be able to buy a property in decent time. So mortgage seems to be good idea for me. It´s the security, because if I lost stream of income for some longer period, I would end up in bad situation which can be definitive for me. I don´t want to be stressed over keeping a job until my 70. Buying a property sound better for me than renting, because I save my money into my property, which has value, instead of throwing them to others pockets.

Reminds me, I have to move out from my flat, because of owner´s family issues. I spent more than two month salaries on... nothing. Most of the time I wasn´t here anyway. If I was paying mortgage, I would have some small percents paid.