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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 12:51 PM
Usually it can be summarized as thus: If person X has some kind of brand to protect, they will move heaven and earth to distance themselves from the proper alt-right elements discussing race, JQ and other such questions. Cernovich has his books to push so he does that, same with Infowars and PrisonPlanet and Bill Mitchel. People who are not intrinsically tied to a product that they need to sell have more freedom in what they can speak about.
Roosh and Matt Forney also have more freedom because hey, they're PUA teachers and most of the MSM world already thinks they're if not Hitler then at least something like a Rape-Hitler, so one more false label won't do any harm after the Canada fiasco, they're persona non grata to the cucked beta world anyway
I had some screenshot were Cernovich and PrisonPlanet proclaim how they "ALT-RIGHT TO THE BITTER END BRO" and then some months later "oh no no alt-right? me? nah that's not me man I just lisp some Gorilla mindset yo!"
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 12:59 PM
Quote: (12-27-2016 11:23 AM)Roosh Wrote:
Commercial brands in the new right need a high level of stability and predictability to operate, especially after power aims are reached. They are therefore incompatible with a chaotic general movement that can be extreme and agitate for revolution. This is why the brands in the new right don't want things to get too extreme. It makes sense commercially, but the cost is they lose the edgelord respect of being a part of the movement they had catered to. You will then get cycles of disavowals, infighting, and purges.
If you look at how individual commercial brands succeed, they usually establish their own island independent of any movement (e.g. Anthony Robbins), or else they will be constantly at whim of the mob and fleeting trends which is not good for business.
This is why I'm curious to see where Cernovich is going with his whole operation. Prior to the Trump phenomenon his platform was almost entirely lifestyle and self-improvement focused (although he seemed to dip his toe into the political waters with Gamergate). But after sensing an opportunity, he was able to catapult himself into much greater popularity and influence levels through shifting his content toward alt-right politics. You followed a similar trajectory, but your political shift was more gradual and organic (and partially thrust upon you by people who declared themselves your enemy, forcing you to defend yourself).
Cernovich is obviously ambitious and wants to grow his brand (and good for him), but if his shift from lifestyle content to politics is permanent then that means he now has a financial incentive to make his political brand palatable to as many people as possible. And that is understandable, and is not in itself a bad thing (that is essentially the art of politics itself). It does mean, however, that he will, out of necessity, seek to distance himself reflexively from the more controversial figures on the alt-right, regardless of whether or not what those people are saying is true. Basically, Cernovich is positioning himself to be a legitimate new media figure. He doesn't want to be part of the mainstream media establishment, but he wants a similar level of influence, stature and recognition. And he doesn't think that's possible if he is associated with anyone who publicly questions the out-sized influence of Jewish power structures in the West. He senses, correctly, that that issue is still, now - even post-Trump victory and post-2016 mainstreaming of the alt-right - politically radioactive.
The danger is that Cernovich and other influential figures (who have their own financial or personal incentives for discouraging discussion of Jews) will wind up, despite their best intentions, becoming the thought police of the right. And frankly, we don't need that. As an ideology centered on the idea of truth, the alt-right rejects all thought policing as a foundational principle. Just as we refuse to have our thoughts and opinions censored by the left, and we also refuse to be censored by our fellows on the right. If you want to talk tactics and the optics of public relations, that's one thing. But if we wind up in the position of self-censoring and actively censoring others within the movement because we find their message "offensive" or "divisive", then we've officially entered the territory of SJWs and are in deep trouble.
[size=8pt]"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”[/size] [size=7pt] - Romans 8:18[/size]
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 01:02 PM
I don't understand everything to the fine details, (I just read Roosh's link of the summary), but Mike needs to build a better coalition around himself. I need to piggyback off of what Scorpion said. It looks like a circus. Milo has no business being involved with us (Roosh you really should consider thinking about closing his thread here, based on your own rules), and Mike really should not affiliate himself with that guy either.
Mike needs to think more long term and more strategically. He is making the same mistakes Ann Coulter (or Malkin) and similar conservatives made when they were younger. He will be in his 50s getting before he figures it out at this rate. I bet he is still high from his battle against FOX, but in the end, he eventually needs to get back onto TV and build his portfolio within the Republican/Conservative space. Hanging out with circus freaks that have poor temperament, are unprofessional, and not serious is not going to get it done. Perhaps he could use more allies from him home space (talking about us), but I don't think the rest of us are ready to expose ourselves yet. I'm getting close, but I am not ready myself. Until then, he is going to have to get better alliances with legit conservatives and work within the process.
They might be dry and come off as old fogeys, but he is a father now. No older men with power and connections take younger men with no children seriously and most of the time it because of this. They need to know they can trust you. I know we tend to be anti-corporate around here but there is profound wisdom in good order and organization. Corporations succeed and make money because those methods work well. Politics is not much different. Men with something to lose (skin in the game) will only trust another in the same boat. I know his kid is young (mine are too), but he has to start putting himself into position, so that God can bless him with a position of authority and power. He himself has to understand that he has to be more responsible with the authority he is commanding younger troops with right now even!
If he needs to, he could lead us younger guys and build a newer coalition of new age conservatives. If he wants to think outside the box, he can always do that too, but iron will always sharpen iron. He does not have to be the next George Will, but he cannot continue to wallow in mud with people of dubious character. Aurini learned this same lesson last year and it cost him alot of money. Mike would benefit getting more advice from Aurini or even working with him more in some capacity as well. If he is too afraid to work with anyone alt-right based, then that is all the more reason he needs to learn how to work within the existing conservative groups right now. If he puts in the work, he might be on the staff for Trump's second term or whoever comes after him. When Trump's staff goes through people searches, guys like Mike right now are not touchable. Gotta fix that now if he wants to build his name bigger in this space.
He can still keep a Gorilla Mindset and still work within the mainstream system. We are men, not special unicorns. We lead other men, and the best way to do that is by example.
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 01:54 PM
Mike is working to combat the JQ in real life by building an empire of his own to take away part of their control. Mike has a plan and is looking 5-10 years into the future on how to make real change.
The alt right anime avitars would rather stay anonymous and start drama from the sidelines. They think the Jews are at fault for them being losers and not having a cutie pie girlfriend because the Jews did feminism don't ya know.
People like Mike and Roosh have their finger on the pulse of culture and are doing more of a dance, trying to slowly progress to a society that is better for everyone.
These alt right guys want to AMOG your grandmother into becoming a neo Nazi.
I think Roosh is right in that now Trump won, having no solid traget now means there is going to be this infighting.
It's clear to me now that if you want to get anything done you can't rely on the mob, and very seldom on other people. You have to do it yourself.
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 01:55 PM
I think most criticisms of the WN part of the alt right straw man it a bit. Few argue that small numbers of high IQ non whites who immigrate legally are not welcome. It's the hordes of somalis and mestizos that the (((elite))) push on the American public that is the problem. Mike and Bill have a powerful commercial interest in reaching normies who would otherwise be turned off by racial IQ discussion, etc.
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 01:58 PM
Have we ever considered that maybe Cernovich just doesn't like Nazis, or people who go around play-acting as Nazis?
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 04:25 PM
On the subject of Deploraball, Sam Hyde was also going to be there originally, but apparently cancelled. Supposedly they asked Richard Spencer not to come (not sure if he had already bought a ticket or something) so Sam gave his ticket to someone else. I thought he might be joking at first, but his name has been removed from the event page. Baked Alaska said that it was not actually Deploraball that told Spencer he was not allowed, but the National Press Club.
What a mess.
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 04:31 PM
Quote: (12-27-2016 01:54 PM)Sooth Wrote:
Mike is working to combat the JQ in real life by building an empire of his own to take away part of their control. Mike has a plan and is looking 5-10 years into the future on how to make real change.
The alt right anime avitars would rather stay anonymous and start drama from the sidelines. They think the Jews are at fault for them being losers and not having a cutie pie girlfriend because the Jews did feminism don't ya know.
People like Mike and Roosh have their finger on the pulse of culture and are doing more of a dance, trying to slowly progress to a society that is better for everyone.
These alt right guys want to AMOG your grandmother into becoming a neo Nazi.
I think Roosh is right in that now Trump won, having no solid traget now means there is going to be this infighting.
It's clear to me now that if you want to get anything done you can't rely on the mob, and very seldom on other people. You have to do it yourself.
I credit RVF for real progressive thinking but it's funny how shame language calling people losers because they dare question The Narrative is thrown out even on here.
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 05:13 PM
^^ That's unreal; his older tweets about not pissing off Twitter were an obvious sign that he wasn't all the way red-pilled though.
How many of these guys really get it? Can you count on "good ol' Southern boy" Conservatives as real allies when they'd readily white knight for women and sell you out for example? That criticism is fair of the edgy white supremacist types too, who will white knight for women of their race.
Tweets like that give the WN edgelords more fodder and allow them to overlook their own deficiencies, however that tweet needs to be called out. America First is great, SJW buzzwords aren't.
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 05:22 PM
Denying that "brands" matter is no different than game denialism.
Branding is not restricted to commercial applications. Everyone thinks in terms of branding, and everyone has a brand, good or bad, whether it's the Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton.
A massive part of Trump's campaign success was branding -- Make America Great Again, Build the Wall, and many less obvious examples. And on the flip side, he also showed us how a bad brand can completely destroy you, e.g., Low Energy Jeb, Lyin' Ted, etc.
Again, branding matters whether you like it or not, whether you choose to "build" your brand or totally ignore it and hope for the best. It's a fundamental part of human psychology, and it's not going away.
People can disagree on specific politics, but every time I see people claim Cernovich is just a shilling opportunist, it just reminds me of some beta saying some player "only has a hot gf because he's a douchebag".
The facts of the matter are, Mike went from political nobody to a massively influential figure in the election, and passed up A LOT of money in the process. If you don't want to associate with his more "mainstream" approach, that's fine, but the Alt-Right seems to specialize in pettiness and butt hurt.
By the way, Mike isn't even Jewish. His middle name is even Christian, as far as I know.
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 05:24 PM
Milo's Jewishness is massively overstated by the man himself, he's quarter-Jewish and just uses it to defend himself from the left in regards to accusations of Nazism. He much more identifies as Roman Catholic.
There's not just a schism in the 'alt-right', there's also a schism opening up on the forum it seems from various factions, and this needs to be ironed out if we're going to be a united front. Perhaps Roosh doesn't care if we are a united front, but I think it would be good if we were, but I can't really see a reconciliation if I'm honest...judging by arguments I've had over the past few months. We're definitely in the in-fighting purity-signalling stage that comes with new political movements.
I joined this forum because I wanted to get higher quality girls, and because I agreed with a lot of the politics of fellow travellers, yet I never expected to be discussing the finer points of American Neo-Nazism. I have also read enough books and accounts from real Nazis (Albert Speer's diaries, Rudlof Hoess' testimony) to know that Auschwitz etc was very real, and that a lot of them were happy with it. Yes, perhaps the numbers were exaggerated - but you're still talking horrific numbers of Jews and others such as gentile Polish. However, some of the guys on here simultaneously hate Jews, yet deny that these things occurred - a strange position.
Lastly, Milo has done more to destroy the things you claim to hate than anyone else (apart from Trump himself), yet he still gets hate for being "a narcissist"...he is, but has he done good things or has he not? I feel he has. Significantly. He's made being right-wing cool for young people, which is a damn sight more than someone like Richard Spencer (who I don't hate by the way). There's also a lot of people from the forum who have turned away from it (like Tuthmosis for example, or Speakeasy) that wouldn't, had the forum not been so cool with the neo-nazi shit.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H L Mencken
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 05:28 PM
^
It is an incredibly bold statement to say that there is a significant pro-neonazi element in this forum. Talking about how we white people don't want to be automatically shit on for defending our own group the way every other group does is not the same as being a fucking neonazi.
It is also not "neonazism" to question the way American Jews act.
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 05:38 PM
^ There are several prominent members who definitely fit that profile. I am European, I know very well what it feels like to be demographically overwhelmed by hostile elements!
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H L Mencken
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Drama in the alt lite / new right
12-27-2016, 05:40 PM
re: united front
I for one don't consider disagreements on this Jew stuff to be a deal breaker with any of you. Advice from the sphere, your books, and your forum posts has been life changing for me. My life was in bad shape when I stumbled upon the red pill and there is no going back now. I hope you feel the same way. I understand the reasoning behind the opposing opinion, it makes perfect sense. I have my concerns about what this might mean for our group in the future but others have expressed them well enough. I see no need to argue about it further. I'm with you either way.
We're a bunch of strong willed high energy men, a little ego clashing is inevitable.