[kbell]

What's with the drama with Baked Alaska?

[Roosh]

Baked Alaska and Cernovich had a business falling out because BakedAlaska was talking about the JQ and "white genocide" on his Twitter. Now they are stating their respective cases on their Twitter and Periscope accounts.

(Edit: Here's a summary http://www.mediaite.com/online/alt-right...ploraball/)

[philosophical_recovery]

Serious question: who is Baked Alaska and why should I care?
Name sounds familiar but I can't place it.

[kbell]

Some alt right guy who helped create the deploraball with cernovich I think, who talks about what Roosh mentioned and anime right (there is some twitter war between anime right and animeslav) No idea what the joke is about so generally ignore it. I think he also was the creator of maga 3x. Cernovichs video was pulled down, I think he was getting bombarded with negative comments in the periscope.

[Slim Shady]

Pretty good summary of the whole thing: http://theralphretort.com/deploraball-du...-12026016/

Personal opinion: The Alt-Right brand is toxic after the whole Neo Nazi taint, and Mike wants nothing to do with it - long game wise it is terrible branding. I can't speak on any of his other accusations.

[El Chinito loco]

(12-26-2016 11:39 PM)Slim Shady Wrote:  

Pretty good summary of the whole thing: http://theralphretort.com/deploraball-du...-12026016/

Personal opinion: The Alt-Right brand is toxic after the whole Neo Nazi taint, and Mike wants nothing to do with it - long game wise it is terrible branding. I can't speak on any of his other accusations.

We could already predict this schism happening about a year or so ago on here. It was already developing in the manosphere with actual far right neo nazi types wanting to push everything towards that agenda. It's not surprising to see this is happening to the more grassroots pro Trump support movement.

Cernovich and Milo are far more mainstream and their message is to right wing nationalist types which includes most of us here. Cernovich is clearly anti neo con establishment, pro U.S., anti islamic caliphate, and pro U.S. prosperity. These are all things most of us can definitely get behind.

On the otherhand there's always been a contingent from /pol/ and various extreme right forums out there like Stormfront pushing for a broader white nationalist only orientated movement espousing everything from total end to immigration (including those of us who are native born from non white immigrant backgrounds) and outright purging of the ranks via the usual ideological purity stuff based around white ethnonationalism.

I wouldn't be concerned about this just yet. The fringe elements have always been trying to push people way towards the edges of a movement.

Don't think for a minute the right can't or won't eat its own also though.

The same collapse happening to the left right now could very well happen to this whole rebirth of the right and revitalized nationalism in the U.S. if this type of stuff goes too far off the rails.

[Samseau]

The problem with the Baked Alaska is that he is pushing the envelope to far too fast.

If you're going to be a major public figure, then you have to be careful with battles. Picking fights with the Jews right now is a bad idea. Trump himself isn't going to listen anyways.

Questions like the JQ have to be handled behind the scenes in low-key environments. Not at highly publicized events like the Deploraball. Alaska was on Mike's payroll, and Mike wanted to stay on message of the election and major key issues Trump won on. Bringing up controversial, poorly understood topics like the JQ at a mass event can only end with fights and bad publicity. Mike was thinking politically, but Alaska wanted to stay an edgelord no matter what. Alaska can't see the big picture. So Mike had to kick him out.

For example, illegal immigration was a topic you couldn't address 16 or 8 years ago without being called a racist. People would shut down and have meltdowns. But now it's fine to talk about illegal immigration and the wall is going up.

Likewise, the JQ is still a sensitive question and people haven't formulated their thoughts on it completely. People still need to emotionally adjust to the role Talmuds play before they can talk about it in the open.

It's like seducing a girl. You just can't jam it in without her recoiling away. You need to be smooth and escalate at the right moments. Guys like Baked Alaska and Richard Spencer don't seem to get this, which is why they will stay in the background. They do not understand politics.

[scorpion]

https://twitter.com/bakedalaska/status/8...00/photo/1

The faggot MILO, ever the narcissist and shameless attention whore, would only attend if he was the headliner. I said from this beginning this guy was only interested in self-promotion and building his personal media brand. He has absolutely no loyalty to any alt-right (or even alt-light or whatever you want to call it) ideology. He's simply a contrarian, homosexual edgelord who gets off on publicly defying convention and social norms. It's simply a testament to the power and overreach of the left that the only way for a homosexual to be edgy in public in 2016 is to engage in right-wing political talk. But even as he castigates political correctness and Islam, he can't resist sprinkling in non-sequiturs about how much he enjoys gang bangs and black cocks (that's if he's not dressed outright in drag).

I can't be the only one tired of this faggot and his never-ending attention whoring.

[rotekz]

^^^^^
Yet despite all his faults Milo is extremely good at dismantling the culture of the left and should not be dismissed. They truly fear him.

[Silver_Tube]

I cringe when the hostile Jew talk comes out in general. We're in a hearts and minds battle and it scares people away from our perspective. People think we're barbaric dumbfucks whenever it comes out. I like the 'don't punch right' idea but this nazi shit is sabotaging our chances at effecting any real change. I also agree that it's not the right time to address issues with the Jews.

Maybe they are the root of all the world's problems but until people have enough facts to consider that possibilty, all of this anti Jew stuff just looks like hysterical ignorant racism to them.

[Roosh]

(12-27-2016 09:38 AM)Silver_Tube Wrote:  

I cringe when the hostile Jew talk comes out in general. We're in a hearts and minds battle and it scares people away from our perspective. People think we're barbaric dumbfucks whenever it comes out. I like the 'don't punch right' idea but this nazi shit is sabotaging our chances at effecting any real change. I also agree that it's not the right time to address issues with the Jews.

Who cares? So we have to bite our lip in the hopes of hoping to convert people to the "movement"? If we can't talk about what we want, what's the point of all this? Why did we create our own platforms if we're policing ourselves with a list of things we can say or not? Who cares about "real change" or other meaningless platitudes if we're all policing ourselves in the same way liberals police us? Who really knows when is the "right time" to talk about anything?

I addressed this before here:

http://www.rooshv.com/i-do-not-disavow-richard-spencer

This idea of the "alt right brand" or whatever brand is also something I don't believe in. Brands are for corporations to sell products. It's a strategy of public relations to create an image that is conducive to commercial activity. Applying it to an individual in the sense of "I am a brand" or an amorphous internet collective is a new phenomenon that I believe will lead to the road where the brand owns you instead of the other way around. Don't get me wrong... I like to make a living on the internet, but there has to be a point where you say what you want to say instead of worrying about how it will affect the business. Otherwise you're no different from a vanilla Fortune 500 company that is scared to share an opinion that is not in line with the prevailing establishment.

As for the current Deploraball problem, it comes down to business partners not having the same goal. Mike has a media empire he cares about and Baked Alaska is a younger personality who is finding his way and having fun. Conflict was inevitable.

[not-a-pua]

The AltRight doesn't care what you think about it.
Milo and Cernovic are Jews. I can understand why they don't want to talk about Jews all the time.
However, Milo admitted that Jews control the media on the Dave Rubin show.
It doesn't matter when and how you start the discussion. You will always be called a racist and ant-semite once you start talking about Jews.
Right now, I see Cernovic as cucking out. Milo still has not answered what happened to the 100.000$ privilege grant money.
I would not dismiss the white nationalist portion as some sort of fringe element. Take a look at their traffic. All their websites and podcasts etc are exploding. Personally I draw the line at Nazi worship and holocaust denial.

[Sumanguru]

(12-27-2016 09:55 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

(12-27-2016 09:38 AM)Silver_Tube Wrote:  

I cringe when the hostile Jew talk comes out in general. We're in a hearts and minds battle and it scares people away from our perspective. People think we're barbaric dumbfucks whenever it comes out. I like the 'don't punch right' idea but this nazi shit is sabotaging our chances at effecting any real change. I also agree that it's not the right time to address issues with the Jews.

Who cares?

Because its a cancer that'll turn a possibly viable and valuable movement into an irrelevant one of a tiny group of fringe crazies?

It's like the thread you posted with the old white woman who went racist on the Mexicans who (allegedly) cut ahead of her in line. (If they did cut ahead of her in line) she had a valid beef and good on her for standing up for it and for all the people in line who were silent but annoyed at the BS. But then she goes "Go back to your country." Forget about the media branding her racist, we know the media is full of shit. How many people in that line of all races did she lose cause of that? How many people watching of all races did she lose? But she didn't need to lose them--she already had a good argument that many agreed with, why even bring up race? That's pretty much how I feel about the alt-right--I agree with much of their platform, but when they go all white nationalist on me, it reminds me of why I never took their label. How many people of all races has the alt-right lost because of that WN BS?

[Roosh]

Quote:

Because its a cancer that'll turn a possibly viable and valuable movement into an irrelevant one of a tiny group of fringe crazies?

So what? Why are you so eager to be accepted by the mainstream? They hate your guts and have already rejected you... don't put them on a pedestal and try to please them. Behave in a way that you want, try to red pill people you want, but don't try to tell others what to do for the "movement". Unless you own a time machine, I don't believe what anyone says is good or bad for the "movement". When people say they are doing what's good for the "movement", what they're really saying is "Here is what's good for me and my interests."

We have a rock solid community here, and we are helping each other. That's all that matters to me. The broad "movement" is irrelevant.

[rotekz]

Now we have Twitter drama going on between Bill Mitchell and Jared Wyand posting under the @_ProjectPurge.

Same deal. Jared is a truth teller and Bill has a brand which he doesn't want tainted.

[/url]

[url=https://twitter.com/AmericanMex067/status/813770357203038208]

[Roosh]

Commercial brands in the new right need a high level of stability and predictability to operate, especially after power aims are reached. They are therefore incompatible with a chaotic general movement that can be extreme and agitate for revolution. This is why the brands in the new right don't want things to get too extreme. It makes sense commercially, but the cost is they lose the edgelord respect of being a part of the movement they had catered to. You will then get cycles of disavowals, infighting, and purges.

If you look at how individual commercial brands succeed, they usually establish their own island independent of any movement (e.g. Anthony Robbins), or else they will be constantly at whim of the mob and fleeting trends which is not good for business.

[Kingsley Davis]

Something on your mind? RVF got it covered Voltaire's quote “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" always seemed apt to the JQ.

[rotekz]

(12-27-2016 10:35 AM)not-a-pua Wrote:  

Personally I draw the line at Nazi worship and holocaust denial.

Not wanting to go off at a tangent but.. these two things do not have to be lumped together. I don't give fig for the Nazi's but am open to the idea that something is not right with the official holocaust narrative. Historians should be able to debate it without the threat of jail.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

The alt-right split is reflected on this forum. Anytime someone starts a race thread, it blows up. Roosh, you've pushed to resist this, on the basis that we have men of all races here, looking to optimize their lives, so we can't favor any one race over another. I think this is correct.

We have the same situation in America, with Trump and traditional values. On the one hand, a homogeneous culture with traditional values is best, particularly when it comes to traditional male and female roles, and the way society handles outliers like homos and trannies. We all lament the loss of homogenous cultures and societies with traditional values, but Trump is being careful not to tie himself to these issues. He's not interested in the situation with gays, or with trannies in bathrooms. He wants to keep Muslim extremists and illegal aliens out, but he is absolutely not a white nationalist. If anything, he's explicitly targeting the black and Hispanic populations in the United States, and trying to reinvigorate the economies in those areas, in a way that will convert these minorities towards more of an individualistic, self sufficient mindset.

I think this is the right approach. In our case, on this forum, what we care about is what's right or what's best for men. I like the term patriarchal nationalism that's been used in some ROK articles. I think the principles we are pushing are for all races, not just whites. Therefore, I'm opposed to most forms of white nationalism. That being said, I think that high levels of unassimilated immigration are bad, and even when the immigrant groups settle in an area for several generations, they still hold onto many of their original characteristics, instead of being truly assimilated. Therefore, I oppose excess immigration from alien cultures, but not because I think those cultures are necessarily inferior. I think those cultures need to apply patriarchal nationalism in their home lands, the same as we need it here, and I know there are good, capable, red pill men on those societies, just as there are here.

All cultures have flaws, some of them quite bad, but the best solution for those cultures is for their men to be able to improve themselves the way we advocate here. Men everywhere should have the opportunity to make a good living under a limited government, and to create families and lead them to raise strong sons and marriageable daughters. I'd like to see the red pill or neomasculine ideas become a revolution in thinking, that becomes known and accepted by most men everywhere.

If we're going to build any kind of a brand here, I think it should be focused on what's good for men, and I think that stable, homogenous cultures are part of this, so that men can marry and raise children in a family friendly culture, and can earn a living and lead their families in a patriarchal role.

[Glaucon]

You can investigate the JQ without being a Nazi... There is a reason in the Middle Ages, Jews were often prohibited from owning land for example. It is not the first time in history they stir up trouble...

[Sumanguru]

(12-27-2016 10:57 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

Because its a cancer that'll turn a possibly viable and valuable movement into an irrelevant one of a tiny group of fringe crazies?

So what? Why are you so eager to be accepted by the mainstream?

Roosh,

that's not what I said.

Quote:

It's like the thread you posted with the old white woman who went racist on the Mexicans who (allegedly) cut ahead of her in line. (If they did cut ahead of her in line) she had a valid beef and good on her for standing up for it and for all the people in line who were silent but annoyed at the BS. But then she goes "Go back to your country." Forget about the media branding her racist, we know the media is full of shit. How many people in that line of all races did she lose cause of that? How many people watching of all races did she lose?

I'm not talking about winning or losing "the mainstream." The press and academia are garbage. I'm talking about the alt-right failing to win over regular people, or people like me, or many on this forum--white and non-white--who should be ideologically aligned to it, who share many of the principles and concepts, who are sick of feminism/liberalism/political correctness, but aren't cool with the alt-right's racism and white nationalism. And I don't mean we're not cool with it because its politically incorrect OMGNO! I mean I'm not cool with it cause its idpol bullshit.

[Thersites]

Thanks to MSM, the public in general has been condition to subconsciously recoil from anyone that mention the JQ or anything regarding white nationalism. My personal reasoning, MikeC and Milo are try desensitization the general public from kneejerk reaction that the leftism has imposed upon us. Once the public is desensitized, you can stay having honest conversation about JQ or white nationalism.
Disagreements will happen in any movement, but keep them in private.

[Private Man]

It astounds me that this shit was made public via Twitter and Periscope. That was a mistake of epic proportions and will never go away now.

Seriously, if you have a beef with a guy (personally or professionally), keep it private! Work it out between yourselves and agree to keep it away from the masses. Then keep to that agreement as the righteous, honorable men we are.

Eyes are upon us. Those eyes are hostile, vicious, and looking specifically for this kind of nasty, internal drama. I don't care if you're MRA, PUA, or MGTOW, personal conflicts are just that, personal!

I stayed out of this political cycle precisely because of this kind of shit.

[Foolsgo1d]

The fact they have a lot of people riled up over "the Jews" is proof of their success in their early plans to dismantle the movement or whatever you want to call it.

Majority of people do not know or care about the manosphere, alt-right, stormfront, jewish influence, Arab influence etc. They care about instant gratification, jobs, fucking and getting the weekend here and now.

If you start throwing this stuff out there you will be ignored and forgotten. People will not accept the truth until its in their face.

Its easy to fight politicians over twitter and facebook but they have a legitimate platform, we don't.

[Agastya]

(12-27-2016 12:18 PM)Sumanguru Wrote:  

(12-27-2016 10:57 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

Because its a cancer that'll turn a possibly viable and valuable movement into an irrelevant one of a tiny group of fringe crazies?

So what? Why are you so eager to be accepted by the mainstream?

Roosh,

that's not what I said.

Quote:

It's like the thread you posted with the old white woman who went racist on the Mexicans who (allegedly) cut ahead of her in line. (If they did cut ahead of her in line) she had a valid beef and good on her for standing up for it and for all the people in line who were silent but annoyed at the BS. But then she goes "Go back to your country." Forget about the media branding her racist, we know the media is full of shit. How many people in that line of all races did she lose cause of that? How many people watching of all races did she lose?

I'm not talking about winning or losing "the mainstream." The press and academia are garbage. I'm talking about the alt-right failing to win over regular people, or people like me, or many on this forum--white and non-white--who should be ideologically aligned to it, who share many of the principles and concepts, who are sick of feminism/liberalism/political correctness, but aren't cool with the alt-right's racism and white nationalism. And I don't mean we're not cool with it because its politically incorrect OMGNO! I mean I'm not cool with it cause its idpol bullshit.

This is an accurate assessment of the way that massive portions of society currently feel. No one hopes or wants to convince Huffington Post or Thought Catalogue to change their viewpoints. As another poster said following Trump's election, the actual SJW's will just double down on their stupidity--it's just in their nature. We're not talking about those people. Instead we're talking about the many normal individuals who don't want to deal with the batshit fringe of the right wing. Being "accepted" by the mainstream media is impossible, but broadening our appeal to a larger portion of society is eminently possible.