I think this is a bit of a stereotypical idea, but also a common finding: if you're highly motivated in making money, Europe is frustrating. If you are more into getting by and enjoying the simple good things (and being a bit lazy) then Europe is more your speed. Things get more laid back the closer you get to the Med.

Quote: (08-13-2016 11:58 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

I'm a Spaniard myself, so I feel like I should probably chime in on this one.

First of all, I think although the OP comes accross as bitter and jaded from his time in Spain, there's definitely a lot of truth in what he writes. Most Spaniards do have a group-think mentality and they are usually not as ambitious or career-driven as other Europeans. To illustrate this point, one of my childhood friends, a top tennis player at the time, rejected a full scholarship to study in a New York university, just to stay close to his girlfriend, family and friends. In addition, service is usually very bad and general politness and manners are not something you should expect.

The problem with discussing these things is that most spanish people don't even notice them. I actually didn't start realizing this stuff until I moved abroad.

I think however that Bladrich's main problems stem from not having met enough like minded people and perhaps having wrong expectations of the country. This actually reminds me a lot of my attitude towards the UK, where out of bad luck and bad choices on my part, I rarely managed to really "click" with locals.

In terms of your career, it's obvious that there's better places than Spain. Still, I'm a bit surprised and think maybe you were just unlucky as I personally know plenty of young, ambitious dudes from my country (perhaps you should reflect on how you've been networking all this time or how you've tried to meet Spaniards that are less "average").

At the end of the day, Spain is a relatively big country and despite most people being mediocre, unambitious and tied to their family, hometown and friends, you can still meet people of all walks of life.

Now, about the women... Spanish girls are NO WAY NEAR as feminists as anglo girls. I'm 100% certain of this. The only girls who regularly post feminst stuff on my fb are always from the UK. In addition, anglo girls are a lot more vocal about their views, as they are regularly fed feminist BS by their universities, the media etc. It is true that this is unfortunately changing and Baldrich is right to point out that Spaniards are importing the WORST stuff of modern American culture. Slowly but gradually, I'm starting to notice more SJW girls in Spain but things are way better than in England for example. In terms of their looks, perhaps I'm biased as I haven't travelled that much around Spain myself, but Valencia has a decent supply of hot local girls and I disagree with those saying they have unpleasant, rude, manly mannerisms. It's also definitely possible to meet "traditional" girls. And by traditional I mean that they are relationship oriented, as it is the case of many Spaniards.

In terms of gaming them, it's usually better to be very indirect and try to act more "sociable" and friendly as opposed to flirting with them just straight away. It's also a lot better to meet them through social circle but I do agree that they're generally quite complicated. The cool thing about Spain however, is that even in 3rd tier cities, you can find girls from just about ANYWHERE in the world. Colombians, Romanians, Russians, Poles, Dutch, Germans, Belgians, English, Irish, Americans... There is a massive influx of Erasmus students, girls doing a gap year or working as au pairs or just visiting for a couple of weeks. In Spain you can really carve out a niche in case local girls are not really your thing. One of the best Spanish players I know, regularly gets laid with latinas and Romanians for example.

In fact, you can easily spend years in Spain meeting quality girls from anywhere but Spain and there's particularly a lot of latin clubs in all major cities where latinas are A LOT friendlier than Spanish (Spaniard) girls.

As for the culture, I think Spain might not be a place to relocate permanently unless you really get to meet people who are "outliers", who you can relate to. Personally, I love going back to my home town and hanging out with my childhood friends. We all go way back and have similar mindsets, we are all very politically incorrect, but after a while, I do feel an urge to leave and experience new things.

It is true that Spain has fewer "clubs" where people meet to share an interest, like a reading club as you mention. I think this is partly because of the University system in Spain, where unlike in other countries, you are not really encouraged to pursue other stuff outside your studies. This being said, there's intellectuals in all major cities and again, I think you must have been doing something wrong in terms of trying to meet these people and connect with them. Even then, there's plenty of foreigners in Spain, so you could have always hanged out with more cultured guys from other countries.

Politically, yeah, there's little hope and the fact that the younger generations voted en masse for Podemos (a radical left-wing party ) makes me feel even more hopeless. There's also not a debate culture like in the UK but at least universities are not SJW grounds and masculinity is not attacked as often.

What you mention about our perception of Americans is 100 % true. The redneck stereotype is quite wide spread and in my experience, a lot of Spaniards seem to forget how huge and varied the US really is. Basically, I'd say that in the Anglosphere, it seems that you get a lot of exceptional people on both sides (talented, intelligent, hardworking etc vs stupid, backwards...) whereas in Spain people are a lot more "average" and have a herd mentality.

Quote: (08-12-2016 07:34 AM)Lime Wrote:  

The best of a culture is usually the worst as well.

Good points about Spain (inexhaustive):

-Very open towards foreigners in nightlife, very friendly nightlife in general.
-Family oriented.
-Proud of their country.
-Not bashing their own culture.
-Cannabis smoking is tolerated, mostly.
-Cheap living.
-Good climate.
-Siesta.

This is absolutely not true. All left-leaning Spaniards regularly bash their own culture and history and even a lot of right-wing moderates do so too. There's no nationalism like in Poland for example and you are usually labelled a "facha" for displaying the national flag. Everyone loves complaining about our country but no one actually does anything. Only the left is a bit more active in this sense, but they're essentially in favour of establishing a country of civil-servants where everyone "works" for the government, which would only make people more lazy and turn Spain into Venezuela.

Gopnik, I'm not surprised at all about your friend the tennis player. That's exactly what I find exasperating. To me, a man who squanders good opportunities is, to some extent, a loser. And Spain is a country where mediocrity reigns supreme. Those are not my words, those are words of many Spaniards who have taught me that truth. Greeks who have emigrated tell me the same about Greece.

Re: Manners. One of the things that I find utterly unprofessional here is how even in company classes, the people working will openly mock American food and other countries. Some people on roosh think that's good and "politically incorrect" but it really is not "un-PC", it's just stupidity and ignorance. I get paid good money for what I do in companies so I just grin and bear it, but I am shocked sometimes when they say "oh you only eat hamburgers and other crap in the US". Or how they make racist comments IN PROFESSIONAL settings. This is one of the reasons why Spain still is not taken seriously for business.

Telling someone "allí no sabéis comer" is not only arrogant, but comes across for what it is: totally ignorant. The phrase, for non-Spanish speakers translates as "in the US you don't know how to eat!"

Just imagine what any corporation would do in the US if say, there was a Spanish instructor and Americans told him "paella is crap". It would not be tolerated. So yes, I find the atmosphere here unprofessional, ignorant and rude.

You say I had the wrong expectations. You are correct and I should also specify that my post is about the whole of Spain. There are regions of Spain, like Catalonia and Valencia, that I find REALLY TOLERANT, open-minded and modern. I really love Barcelona and Valencia...it is day and vanguard compared to Madrid and the central plains. I will write a post about that some other time.

Girls: They're not as feminist vocally because they're not as aware of the theories, but the girls I meet here (and trust me I meet a LOT OF WOMEN) always seem to bitch about their boyfriends or about how "they don't have to cook" or about how "men" need to do more around the house and how they tell their boyfriends to share the domestic chores, etc. Again, it also depends on the region too...I find madrileñas to be among the worst as well as vascas (but you know why I say this last part...because of their well-known manly features that other Spaniards always comment about).

I also find them "mojigatas" -- hypocritical when it comes to morality and meeting men. Many of them secretly think Scandinavian women are sluts because they have less complexes, but then when Spanish women travel abroad away from their village, they act just as bad if not worse.

1000000% agreement on foreign women in Spain. THE BEST. I always meet girls from Finland, France, Ireland...nice, cheerful, no bitter dark looks, no scowls or attitude....I like blondes anyway so that's also a plus...even though Barcelona and Valencia have plenty of blonde girls compared to the rest of Spain...but anyway, thanks for your post. Glad to see a local agree on many points.

10 pages of drivel mostly

Quote: (08-16-2016 05:05 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:  

10 pages of drivel mostly

At least we can always count on you to enlighten us with enriching comments.

Quote: (08-13-2016 04:30 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

Quote: (08-13-2016 11:58 AM)Gopnik Wrote:  

I think however that Bladrich's main problems stem from not having met enough like minded people and perhaps having wrong expectations of the country. This actually reminds me a lot of my attitude towards the UK, where out of bad luck and bad choices on my part, I rarely managed to really "click" with locals.

In terms of your career, it's obvious that there's better places than Spain. Still, I'm a bit surprised and think maybe you were just unlucky as I personally know plenty of young, ambitious dudes from my country (perhaps you should reflect on how you've been networking all this time or how you've tried to meet Spaniards that are less "average").

At the end of the day, Spain is a relatively big country and despite most people being mediocre, unambitious and tied to their family, hometown and friends, you can still meet people of all walks of life.

I'm glad OP started this thread because it made me think about my experiences living in Brazil for a little less than a year...obviously not to the extent of OP in Spain.

I think all facets of his life (especially social) ended up being tied down to the business he started from what I presume was an English teaching institution where he employed teachers & other staff members to make his operation flow effectively. Being able to consistently go out of his way to develop connections with the many influences outside of his immediate surroundings likely proved to be a difficult task.

In another thread, I argued:
A) People in the Americas (Ranging all the way south of Argentina upwards to Canada) & the Anglosphere tend to gravitate towards "social skills" & a certain type of superficiality in conversation (not so much material wealth) that can strike the emotional chords of others.

whereas

B) It's ok to be socially awkward in most parts of Europe & Asia as overall intellectual abilities are valued more than the "right type" of charisma in social settings.

With regards to Spain, I'm going to say what they value most in their social preferences falls more in line with category A; I'd even argue that Portuguese people belong in category B based on the abundance of people I've met from the Iberian Peninsula. It's not to say I haven't met Spaniards who gravitate towards the tendencies of category B but the majority fell within category A bar none.

When you combine the attributes of those category A type tendencies with the overly co-dependent herd like mentality that many Spaniards have, it gets to be annoying....especially moreso when you witness it on an everyday basis.

A good example of this would be going to a bar on a Friday night in Hong Kong that is frequented with British/Aussie ex-pats & hearing these groups exchange timely jokes with the majority of the conversation being carried out in slang expressions as they get off on this uncontrollable laughter. These conversations seem to be about nothing but the beers keep flowing as do the shenanigans with hours ticking by. You'll witness the same thing at hostels with native English speakers talking about nothing in groups for hours opposed to sightseeing alone & interacting with locals.

Now I want you to picture these tendencies except this time with Spaniards...and this is essentially how they carry out many of their social interactions...and not just Spaniards...but with basically all native Spanish speakers as well. Category A.

Yes, exactly. If you are sociable enough in Spain, you can get away with mediocrity in what you offer. But if you are a, let's just say "eccentric" type...you will not be tolerated in most Spanish cities with the exception of Barcelona and parts of the Balearic islands.

Spain is all about shenanigans and doing nothing of real seriousness. If you try or are just very serious, people will call you out on it and tell you to "relax" or the ever ubiquitous "no pasa nada" - one of the phrases in Spanish I hate the most. Anytime something SERIOUS does happen, it's always a "no pasa nada", literally, "nothing happens" or "it doesn't matter, no big deal!"

Clearly, a business oriented mind cannot tolerate that. And if they do, they have to turn it into an advantage...which I do. For example, this means I can give a more mediocre service and get away with it since "no pasa nada".

Spanish people seem to think that they and only they know about their country. Even if you have been here for decades, they will still treat you as if though you arrived today. Obviously there are exceptions to all of this, and of course there are Spaniards who will rock your world (FEW AND FAR BETWEEN) but they do exist...and you have to make plenty of effort to find them.

As some Spanish people on here have already said, most Spaniards are very similar to each other and were brought up in nearly identical family/economic cultures.

To their credit though, or to our benefit...if you are an English speaker, if you come from an interesting city/place, most Spaniards will be interested in knowing more about it and you can easily use it to your advantage.

There is a sort of inferiority complex that runs throughout the country...an insecurity of identity. So while they will tell you how great their food is, they will also subconsciously think your country (if it is an English speaking country especially) is in many ways better or more advanced (which of course it is). So in other areas they will grudgingly look up to you.

I will say though that I find it exasperating that the Spaniards are extremely dog unfriendly when it comes to transportation and shops.

Quote: (08-14-2016 06:33 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

Regarding my limited experiences with Spanish women, I remember the quality in Madrid being higher in 2010 opposed to 2012 when I visited 2 times. I found the women quite pleasant, attractive, and feminine though the level dropped later on. Maybe it had something to do with me arriving there Christmas day in 2012 opposed to mid-Autumn 2010.

Went to a mixer in Dallas with some RVF members right before moving out to Brazil where I met some Spanish speaking gals. One of them was a gal from Madrid though her family comes from a Basque background. Come to find out, she was an attorney for an international bank who did law school in NYC and even studied in China too while her family being Basque had a financial background. Rents with $$$.

She actually moved down to Brazil with an ex-boyfriend from law school at one time though the guy wasn't tearing it up financially or in looks department..just a cool down to earth dude. Anyways, things didn't work out as she moved to Texas for a job opportunity. Though really hot in the past, she gained a bit of weight and hangs around other Spanish speaking girls that are now more feminine than her but still possess somewhat masculine demeanors that are a turn off.

One of my RVF buddies dated a cute Argentine that's a part of her pack in her early 30s though appears mid-late 20s. He found her too masculine as she was already divorced once though now is recently engaged to a Forbes 30 under 30 guy in my city who is younger lol (Thirst is real).

I remember being really interested in the Basque gal but never had the time to hook up due to seeing someone else & preparing for my move to Brazil. Now that I'm back home, I find myself no longer being interested as she just hangs out with her Spanish clique & other attractive Latina friends that I just find.....too masculine for my tastes now.

On another hand, there are some hot feminine Spanish milfs out there. Met one from Valladolid (supposedly milf capital of the country) as her husband relocated to Brazil as an engineer for Renault. She was very politically incorrect & hilarious...didn't think it was possible for there to be Asians in the US as she got impression I was from South Korea lol. Still talk to the lady & I got nothin but mad respect because she wore heels ALL THE TIME.

Yeah but you also have to think Valladolid is also known as "Fachadolid" - eg. land of the fascists. It is an EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE city. I'd never want to live there. In general I hate the Spanish central plains -- anything "meseta" -- Castilla, is a big no no for me. But granted, Valladolid can be also very un-PC and sometimes that's good depending on what it is.

I will never forget the interesting conversations I had in Madrid when I became a regular at an old-fashioned bar. The bartender/owner was OLD OLD SCHOOL and you'd see exchanges such as:

hippy looking guy, disheveled, walks in: "good evening, can I get a beer"?

owner: "right, that will be to go, right"?

another example:

tattooed smelly sjw punk walks in: "can I use the bathroom"?

owner: Oh I do apologize. We've just disinfected them.

or another:

"sorry I have no money sir, can I get a sandwich or something"?
owner: no, I'm very sorry but you can go to the local church and get a homeless pass, then go next door to the police station to get it stamped and you get free sandwiches and food from Caritas" (an NGO).

The most interesting Spaniards I met were OLD OLD SCHOOL and very critical of what has become of Spain.

Quote: (08-16-2016 05:25 PM)El_Gostro Wrote:  

I will say though that I find it exasperating that the Spaniards are extremely dog unfriendly when it comes to transportation and shops.

Not in Valencia anymore...they now allow pets in the metro and on the beach. But bullfighting is repulsive and disgusting. Thankfully most young people reject it.

I'm in Valencia right now! One day we walked from Mislata to el Pinedo beach and we thought we d take the bus back but dogs are still no allowed there it seems.
I ignored that the metro is cool with them so thanks for the tip!!!

Quote: (08-16-2016 05:34 PM)El_Gostro Wrote:  

I'm in Valencia right now! One day we walked from Mislata to el Pinedo beach and we thought we d take the bus back but dogs are still no allowed there it seems.
I ignored that the metro is cool with them so thanks for the tip!!!

YOU WALKED FROM MISLATA TO PINEDO???? Wow. I thought I was a walker but you!!!
I think on buses they are not allowed...but try the metro. No problems there! You have to put it in a kennel though...my understanding is that the dog has to be small.

Yeah I was actually on a bit of rage pride trip
(Gf recalls me spitting "gallegos del orto y la concha bien de la reputisima madre que los re mil parió con sus putas fobias caninas!Pateamos!")

Edit
I do know the cultural identity of the actual gallegos but we call all Spaniards as such in Argentina or at least bs as slang

Quote: (08-11-2016 01:33 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

2. Spain is very cheap by London, Paris or New York standards. Outside Madrid and Barcelona, you can really live a relatively comfortable existence (NO LUXURIES THOUGH) for about 1000 euros/month. That may sound nice, but of course, the salaries are among the lowest in the world.

That's incredible! I had no idea that some parts of Spain were that cheap. What areas would you recommend in particular? How easy is it to rent a place?

Low salaries don't matter to many of us who work for ourselves. I recommend that you build your own location-independent business so you can enjoy the low cost of living more. Also, thanks for making this thread.

Quote: (08-16-2016 05:19 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Yes, exactly. If you are sociable enough in Spain, you can get away with mediocrity in what you offer. But if you are a, let's just say "eccentric" type...you will not be tolerated in most Spanish cities with the exception of Barcelona and parts of the Balearic islands.

Spain is all about shenanigans and doing nothing of real seriousness. If you try or are just very serious, people will call you out on it and tell you to "relax" or the ever ubiquitous "no pasa nada" - one of the phrases in Spanish I hate the most. Anytime something SERIOUS does happen, it's always a "no pasa nada", literally, "nothing happens" or "it doesn't matter, no big deal!"

Clearly, a business oriented mind cannot tolerate that. And if they do, they have to turn it into an advantage...which I do. For example, this means I can give a more mediocre service and get away with it since "no pasa nada".

Spanish people seem to think that they and only they know about their country. Even if you have been here for decades, they will still treat you as if though you arrived today. Obviously there are exceptions to all of this, and of course there are Spaniards who will rock your world (FEW AND FAR BETWEEN) but they do exist...and you have to make plenty of effort to find them.

As some Spanish people on here have already said, most Spaniards are very similar to each other and were brought up in nearly identical family/economic cultures.

There is a sort of inferiority complex that runs throughout the country...an insecurity of identity. So while they will tell you how great their food is, they will also subconsciously think your country (if it is an English speaking country especially) is in many ways better or more advanced (which of course it is). So in other areas they will grudgingly look up to you.

Quoting you:

"But if you are a, let's just say "eccentric" type...you will not be tolerated in most Spanish cities with the exception of Barcelona":

Translation: If you are a dirty-clad faggotish hipster liberal, a gay, a "colorful rasta", or a blue-haired lesbian, Spanish society will not like you at all. Ok. And, what is wrong with that, man? Much respect to the Spaniards for being red-pill and Conservatives... "Eccentric" types, as you put it, are welcome to live in NY and vote Hillary...

I can give a more mediocre service and get away with it since "no pasa nada". : So you criticize, and even kinda hate on, the Spaniards, but then you do just as they do, at the first opportunity.

Spanish people seem to think that they and only they know about their country. Even if you have been here for decades, they will still treat you as if though you arrived today.: it is true almost everywhere in the world, for all nations. You can live 20 years in Thailand, do local people will ever treat you as a local??

There is a sort of inferiority complex that runs throughout the country: in other posts, I seem to remember you described Spaniards as arrogant people. So, which one is it? Inferiority or superiority complex?

In any case, you criticize the "open racism" of Spaniards, but you yourself hardly hide your (obvious) xenophobic hatred of them...

And also, like a true "eccentric enlightened liberal", you seem to mistake Good Conservative Values for "bigotry and racism".

But anyway: I confirm: if you have no good, sound conservative values, then you'll feel bad in Spain. But no problem, you can always go live in Canada, Sweden or Bernie-leaning states.

Quote: (08-16-2016 05:19 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Yes, exactly. If you are sociable enough in Spain, you can get away with mediocrity in what you offer. But if you are a, let's just say "eccentric" type...you will not be tolerated in most Spanish cities with the exception of Barcelona and parts of the Balearic islands.

If you think that local, native "Balearic" people like or really tolerate "eccentric" people, you are mistaken. They are one of the most Conservative, traditional native people of Europe. They put up with tourists for the money (with no aggression, mainly indifference), but certainly won't mix with or appreciate "eccentric types".

Eccentric people not welcome in Spain society:


In any case, good news is, it seems that good, respectable Conservative leader Rajoy is just about to keep power, having reached a deal with Ciudadanos... eccentric people are and will be furious!

GS,

I don't see the connection between OP giving a hypothetical about some "eccentric" guy and your conclusion/accusation that he himself is a liberal, and also therefore must be derided.

Pointing out things he dislikes about a culture is not xenophobic- that sentiment requires an irrational and uninformed universality- OP is stating aspects he dislikes which he's discovered from experience over time, not out of blind ignorance. There is no contradiction between doing that and making the true statement that overt racism exists in Spain.

I don't think there is a need to take what the OP has said and turn this into political thread simply because he mentioned a hypothetical eccentric man.

Quote: (08-17-2016 03:13 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

There is a sort of inferiority complex that runs throughout the country: in other posts, I seem to remember you described Spaniards as arrogant people. So, which one is it? Inferiority or superiority complex?

This is not contradictory in the least- Feeling inferior in some way and acting arrogantly to compensate for those self perceived short comings is the basis for "short man syndrome" and numerous other complexes.

Quote: (08-17-2016 03:39 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

GS,

I don't see the connection between OP giving a hypothetical about some "eccentric" guy and your conclusion/accusation that he himself is a liberal,

There is no contradiction between doing that and making the true statement that overt racism exists in Spain.

your conclusion that he himself is a liberal: I quote the very, very "liberal" words of OP, who do sound like a (hateful) SJW below:

Yeah but you also have to think Valladolid is also known as "Fachadolid" - eg. land of the fascists. It is an EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE city. I'd never want to live there. In general I hate the Spanish central plains

I mean, calling Valladolid people fascists, and worth of hatred...

Also, "overt racism exists in Spain"?? You mean, when Spaniards (themselves impacted by high unemployment) state that they (logically) dislike illegal-migrating, welfare-leeching people invading them in pateras, it is "racism"?? No, it is just being conservative and red-pill.

Edit- this thread has already taken diversions into French cuisine, I don't want to further derail, especially since we are both on the Trump train and in agreement on the topic of illegals etc- I just think you're missing a real and valid point made about Spain in this case, and it's not about the rightful criticism of leeches and illegals- there are legitimate issues in parts of Spain.

Some people are just not made for living abroad, and especially when it comes to doing business there. It looks like OP is one of them. His experience would have been largely identical, give or take, in literally any country outside the US/Canada/UK. Comments about always being seen as a foreigner, closed off attitudes and family oriented values etc - the case in nearly all non-Angloamerican cultures.

Quote: (08-17-2016 05:00 AM)atlant Wrote:  

Some people are just not made for living abroad, and especially when it comes to doing business there. It looks like OP is one of them. His experience would have been largely identical, give or take, in literally any country outside the US/Canada/UK. Comments about always being seen as a foreigner, closed off attitudes and family oriented values etc - the case in nearly all non-Angloamerican cultures.

The longer I have been abroad the more I have also seen the same. Most Americans who come here move back to the US. People just dont stay.

Being abroad just tires you out after a while.

Quote: (08-17-2016 01:47 AM)Bushido Wrote:  

Quote: (08-11-2016 01:33 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

2. Spain is very cheap by London, Paris or New York standards. Outside Madrid and Barcelona, you can really live a relatively comfortable existence (NO LUXURIES THOUGH) for about 1000 euros/month. That may sound nice, but of course, the salaries are among the lowest in the world.

That's incredible! I had no idea that some parts of Spain were that cheap. What areas would you recommend in particular? How easy is it to rent a place?

Low salaries don't matter to many of us who work for ourselves. I recommend that you build your own location-independent business so you can enjoy the low cost of living more. Also, thanks for making this thread.

Any area outside Barcelona or Madrid if you are looking for cheap/er housing. For example, you can easily get a huge apartment in Valencia for about 600 euros/month (I have even seen 3 bedroom apartments for 375 euros/month outside major city centers). Yes, it is THAT cheap.

Renting is extremely easy -- no such thing as "credit checks" or all the hassles you can get in many US places. No application fees...unless you use an agency which I do NOT recommend since it's not necessary. The one thing though that is NOTICEABLY more expensive in Spain is electricity and water charges...depending how much rain you get where you live.

Most places don't even ask for references either.

As to location-independent. That's one of my plans. If you can make a US salary and be location-independent, you will RULE here.

To put it in perspective - even in Madrid, if you make 2.000 € net/monthly, you will live rather well and be respected...so imagine how far that will take you in smaller cities. But of course, those kinds of jobs are reserved for people with connections. In Spain its always been about WHO you know rather than WHAT you know. That happens in every country, but here that is taken to almost third-world levels.

Quote: (08-17-2016 03:13 AM)Going strong Wrote:  

Quote: (08-16-2016 05:19 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Yes, exactly. If you are sociable enough in Spain, you can get away with mediocrity in what you offer. But if you are a, let's just say "eccentric" type...you will not be tolerated in most Spanish cities with the exception of Barcelona and parts of the Balearic islands.

Spain is all about shenanigans and doing nothing of real seriousness. If you try or are just very serious, people will call you out on it and tell you to "relax" or the ever ubiquitous "no pasa nada" - one of the phrases in Spanish I hate the most. Anytime something SERIOUS does happen, it's always a "no pasa nada", literally, "nothing happens" or "it doesn't matter, no big deal!"

Clearly, a business oriented mind cannot tolerate that. And if they do, they have to turn it into an advantage...which I do. For example, this means I can give a more mediocre service and get away with it since "no pasa nada".

Spanish people seem to think that they and only they know about their country. Even if you have been here for decades, they will still treat you as if though you arrived today. Obviously there are exceptions to all of this, and of course there are Spaniards who will rock your world (FEW AND FAR BETWEEN) but they do exist...and you have to make plenty of effort to find them.

As some Spanish people on here have already said, most Spaniards are very similar to each other and were brought up in nearly identical family/economic cultures.

There is a sort of inferiority complex that runs throughout the country...an insecurity of identity. So while they will tell you how great their food is, they will also subconsciously think your country (if it is an English speaking country especially) is in many ways better or more advanced (which of course it is). So in other areas they will grudgingly look up to you.

Quoting you:

"But if you are a, let's just say "eccentric" type...you will not be tolerated in most Spanish cities with the exception of Barcelona":

Translation: If you are a dirty-clad faggotish hipster liberal, a gay, a "colorful rasta", or a blue-haired lesbian, Spanish society will not like you at all. Ok. And, what is wrong with that, man? Much respect to the Spaniards for being red-pill and Conservatives... "Eccentric" types, as you put it, are welcome to live in NY and vote Hillary...

I can give a more mediocre service and get away with it since "no pasa nada". : So you criticize, and even kinda hate on, the Spaniards, but then you do just as they do, at the first opportunity.

Spanish people seem to think that they and only they know about their country. Even if you have been here for decades, they will still treat you as if though you arrived today.: it is true almost everywhere in the world, for all nations. You can live 20 years in Thailand, do local people will ever treat you as a local??

There is a sort of inferiority complex that runs throughout the country: in other posts, I seem to remember you described Spaniards as arrogant people. So, which one is it? Inferiority or superiority complex?

In any case, you criticize the "open racism" of Spaniards, but you yourself hardly hide your (obvious) xenophobic hatred of them...

And also, like a true "eccentric enlightened liberal", you seem to mistake Good Conservative Values for "bigotry and racism".

But anyway: I confirm: if you have no good, sound conservative values, then you'll feel bad in Spain. But no problem, you can always go live in Canada, Sweden or Bernie-leaning states.

Why do you limit the word "eccentric" to a faggotish hipster liberal? That's not eccentric AT ALL. That's actually a big bulk of the youth culture. So you're way off. In Spain though, anything that doesn't conform to HERD mentality, is considered eccentric...surely not the mark of an advanced country. Anything remotely unusual here, as in, oh, actually having this debate or dressing formally (because Spanish don't dress as stylishly as Italians or French, trust me) or speaking properly, will make you stand out and not in a good way.

Eat something other than Spanish food? Whhaaaaat?? How can YOU NOT like Spanish food??? bla bla. I mean we've even seen that bs on this thread, with people posting stupid pictures about how great the food is. Seriously, who cares about people's personal food tastes? Let's talk about serious things...or is that too eccentric and formal?

You can ask Spaniards who are "different" - watch how students react in class when some SPANISH person says they don't like ham or paella. "ARE YOU REALLY SPANISH" is asked. And these are not isolated incidents.

Spaniards red pill and conservative? You're joking right? Don't confuse being boring and sterile traditionalism with conservatism. This country has gay marriage, women are above men legally -- yes LEGALLY women are now a protected class, hate speech is banned, there is a gag law that would actually or most likely (if it were feasible) ban the roosh forum from Spain. You call that conservative? I call it fascism and socialism...they are very similar ideologies and I'm glad and proud I choose freedom and independence, which is the RIGHT way for a man, to be free, above Euro-fascism or euro-socialism.

Mediocre service: You don't get it. I am a businessman. Business here can do very well being mediocre. Customers don't demand quality. Take a look at the average private school or restaurant in Spain. So, a businessman needs to maximize opportunity. You call it dodgy, I call it good business sense and winning the argument.


Arrogance: They can be both. I agree with what Globalman has said. Too much arrogance is actually a sign you have an inferiority complex and try to compensate in other ways....hence the "OUR FOOD IS GREAT AND AMERICAN FOOD SUCKS!" syndrome but at the same time, getting more girls interested in me just because I come from the US. You get both here. There is no contradiction in what I have said.

You talk about immigrants on welfare in Spain. LOL. WHAT WELFARE? Spain has NO welfare, not even for its own people.

Can you name any special aid immigrants get here?

Open racism: I am the least PC person you can ever meet in many ways, but there's a difference between racial realism and being dumb and ignorant.

Xenophobic towards the Spaniards? I wouldn't live in Spain for so long if I were. That's just utter crap.

The fact is, Spain IS NOT PERFECT and it's not all fun and games. There are some seriously messed up things in this country and I think it is wise to point them out. It is no way compatible, culturally speaking, with Alpha-mentality and the sort of society that is ideal for ambitious men.

Quote: (08-17-2016 06:56 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Quote: (08-17-2016 01:47 AM)Bushido Wrote:  

Quote: (08-11-2016 01:33 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

2. Spain is very cheap by London, Paris or New York standards. Outside Madrid and Barcelona, you can really live a relatively comfortable existence (NO LUXURIES THOUGH) for about 1000 euros/month. That may sound nice, but of course, the salaries are among the lowest in the world.

That's incredible! I had no idea that some parts of Spain were that cheap. What areas would you recommend in particular? How easy is it to rent a place?

Low salaries don't matter to many of us who work for ourselves. I recommend that you build your own location-independent business so you can enjoy the low cost of living more. Also, thanks for making this thread.

Any area outside Barcelona or Madrid if you are looking for cheap/er housing. For example, you can easily get a huge apartment in Valencia for about 600 euros/month (I have even seen 3 bedroom apartments for 375 euros/month outside major city centers). Yes, it is THAT cheap.

Renting is extremely easy -- no such thing as "credit checks" or all the hassles you can get in many US places. No application fees...unless you use an agency which I do NOT recommend since it's not necessary. The one thing though that is NOTICEABLY more expensive in Spain is electricity and water charges...depending how much rain you get where you live.

Most places don't even ask for references either.

As to location-independent. That's one of my plans. If you can make a US salary and be location-independent, you will RULE here.

To put it in perspective - even in Madrid, if you make 2.000 € net/monthly, you will live rather well and be respected...so imagine how far that will take you in smaller cities. But of course, those kinds of jobs are reserved for people with connections. In Spain its always been about WHO you know rather than WHAT you know. That happens in every country, but here that is taken to almost third-world levels.

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. Never would have imagined the country was anywhere near that cheap.

I hear you on the latin work culture. That is how I remember things being in Italy too. All about family/friend connections and little else. But again, all the more reason to stop looking for jobs and work for yourself instead.

Quote: (08-16-2016 05:19 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Spanish people seem to think that they and only they know about their country. Even if you have been here for decades, they will still treat you as if though you arrived today.

This can be maddenning. I think it's a general feature of 'provincial' people who have little experience with outsiders. They can't put themselves in your place or they simply don't care to invest the mental energy to do so. I sometimes find that I know the city, the country and even parts of the language better than the locals; I've traveled more here, have interacted with people from a wider range of their society than they have, have tried more things. And yet they'll instruct me in basic facts, like how to take the metro. Sometimes I'll just play dumb because they enjoy feeling like a tour guide for a moment. There's a hilarious blog by an American who has lived in Japan for a long time: http://japaneseruleof7.com. Apparently the Japanese are amazed that a foreigner has mastered using chopsticks. They'll gather around like they're at the zoo, witnessing the first birth of a rare species in captivity.

Quote:Quote:

I mean we've even seen that bs on this thread, with people posting stupid pictures about how great the food is

Didn't you just come off a forum suspension for being argumentative earlier in this thread? In case anyone missed it, the International Food Fight has been moved to a separate thread: thread-57672.html

Quote: (08-17-2016 08:25 AM)Bushido Wrote:  

Quote: (08-17-2016 06:56 AM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Quote: (08-17-2016 01:47 AM)Bushido Wrote:  

Quote: (08-11-2016 01:33 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

2. Spain is very cheap by London, Paris or New York standards. Outside Madrid and Barcelona, you can really live a relatively comfortable existence (NO LUXURIES THOUGH) for about 1000 euros/month. That may sound nice, but of course, the salaries are among the lowest in the world.

That's incredible! I had no idea that some parts of Spain were that cheap. What areas would you recommend in particular? How easy is it to rent a place?

Low salaries don't matter to many of us who work for ourselves. I recommend that you build your own location-independent business so you can enjoy the low cost of living more. Also, thanks for making this thread.

Any area outside Barcelona or Madrid if you are looking for cheap/er housing. For example, you can easily get a huge apartment in Valencia for about 600 euros/month (I have even seen 3 bedroom apartments for 375 euros/month outside major city centers). Yes, it is THAT cheap.

Renting is extremely easy -- no such thing as "credit checks" or all the hassles you can get in many US places. No application fees...unless you use an agency which I do NOT recommend since it's not necessary. The one thing though that is NOTICEABLY more expensive in Spain is electricity and water charges...depending how much rain you get where you live.

Most places don't even ask for references either.

As to location-independent. That's one of my plans. If you can make a US salary and be location-independent, you will RULE here.

To put it in perspective - even in Madrid, if you make 2.000 € net/monthly, you will live rather well and be respected...so imagine how far that will take you in smaller cities. But of course, those kinds of jobs are reserved for people with connections. In Spain its always been about WHO you know rather than WHAT you know. That happens in every country, but here that is taken to almost third-world levels.

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. Never would have imagined the country was anywhere near that cheap.

I hear you on the latin work culture. That is how I remember things being in Italy too. All about family/friend connections and little else. But again, all the more reason to stop looking for jobs and work for yourself instead.

It used to be much more expensive but the crisis has destroyed it locally and price-wise it has been great for foreigners.

Spain is the ideal place to spend some months spending good cash and doing what you want. If you work in the US, you can always save say a good amount each week/month and then when you come to cheap countries like Spain you're good to go.

Quote: (08-17-2016 11:28 AM)ElFlaco Wrote:  

Quote: (08-16-2016 05:19 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

Spanish people seem to think that they and only they know about their country. Even if you have been here for decades, they will still treat you as if though you arrived today.

This can be maddenning. I think it's a general feature of 'provincial' people who have little experience with outsiders. They can't put themselves in your place or they simply don't care to invest the mental energy to do so. I sometimes find that I know the city, the country and even parts of the language better than the locals; I've traveled more here, have interacted with people from a wider range of their society than they have, have tried more things. And yet they'll instruct me in basic facts, like how to take the metro. Sometimes I'll just play dumb because they enjoy feeling like a tour guide for a moment. There's a hilarious blog by an American who has lived in Japan for a long time: http://japaneseruleof7.com. Apparently the Japanese are amazed that a foreigner has mastered using chopsticks. They'll gather around like they're at the zoo, witnessing the first birth of a rare species in captivity.

Quote:Quote:

I mean we've even seen that bs on this thread, with people posting stupid pictures about how great the food is

Didn't you just come off a forum suspension for being argumentative earlier in this thread? In case anyone missed it, the International Food Fight has been moved to a separate thread: thread-57672.html

Yes, most of the time I play along too because it's easier than explaining all that anyway and they still won't get it. Spaniards in general can be extremely provincial. I find myself thinking like you - I've traveled more around Spain, met more people, speak the local language better than they do (even SPANISH people tell me this) and yet, I am still treated as if I knew nothing about this place.

Just last week I had a guy tell me that he wanted to invite me to dinner at his house (he is married) so I can see "how well we cook in Spain". Insane. I guess he must think the US is Somalia and everyone is starving or eating dirt.

I wasn't suspended for being argumentative but for using certain some not very nice words. I'm glad the food fight was moved. It was really annoying seeing all those pictures. How limited their lives must be that they limit themselves to ONE food/gastronomy. Guess they can't afford more styles...who knows?