Italy must be the champions of pragmatic tournament play. So many times written off yet they almost always find a way to play better than the sum of their parts. Tonight was a lesson for the Belgians. Get your tactics right, play as a team and defend like warriors and not many teams will beat you (not just in football).

I still think a better tactically prepared team will get the better of them eventually but given the lack of talent in this Italian team you have to take your hat off to them.

Belgium Underperforms yet again! A Team with that much talent HAS to show up!

Quote: (06-13-2016 05:42 PM)zigZag Wrote:  

Belgium Underperforms yet again! A Team with that much talent HAS to show up!

They still could, there were signs in the second half although I doubt they will go much further after the group stage. The coach is widely regarded here as the problem, and there's evidence for that, and the injuries they have in defence will cost them I reckon.

Wilmots sucks, you have to pay the price for him before he can get fired, one world cup and one Euro spoiled.

Quote: (06-13-2016 05:54 PM)AquilonBE Wrote:  

Quote: (06-13-2016 05:42 PM)zigZag Wrote:  

Belgium Underperforms yet again! A Team with that much talent HAS to show up!

They still could, there were signs in the second half although I doubt they will go much further after the group stage. The coach is widely regarded here as the problem, and there's evidence for that, and the injuries they have in defence will cost them I reckon.

AFAIK they only have kompany injured and I would pick Toby and Jan over another pairing. Why not let vermaelen play at LB and let two guys who are used to playing with each other at CB play together? Origi couldnt finish in a Brothel. That guy was dreadful today and missed two chances... What is fellaini doing on the field? What's his purpose? This team is filled to brim with talent that doesnt play well together. There is no system as far as i can say so i have little faith in this team unfortunately. Italy were great though.

Anyone fill me in on why Belgium are so hyped, do they have some big stars now or what?

Antonio Conte gettin a nosebleed from overcelebrating

This is shaping up to be a great Euro!

Belgium certainly has plenty of talent, but they are not proven winners like Italy.

Italy hasn't won anything since 2006, they flamed out badly the last two world cups, losing to Costa Rica and tying New Zealand. But they, like Germany, have always have a cohesive organization and good coaching and morale. They dominated Belgium because they matched up very well: tight discipline and teamwork in the back, they exploited the weaknesses of Belgium, whose individual stars are superior to the best Italian players.

I believe that Belgium's starting 11 cumulatively are the most expensive 11 of this tournament. Hazard, de Bruyne, Kompany, Courtois, Benteke, Fellaini, Carasco, these guys are all EPL/Ligua superstars. It's a golden generation for Belgium, and it's being spoiled by abysmal coaching.

1. This tournament has gotten off with very low scores. Im comparing this to the Brazil world cup however.
2. Italy had 2 very nice goals today.
3. The first time I really had Belgium fall on my radar was in Brazil 2016 when they were facing USA. The way they played was absolutely amazing and from then I realized why people said they had so much potential.

Men against boys ladies and gentleman. The best game so far in this Euro.

The Italians made me think of the Testudo Formation:

Classic Italian defensive football with some attacking flair built in on the counter attack. Great to watch. I love their pragmatism defensively.

Quote: (06-13-2016 07:53 PM)zigZag Wrote:  

Quote: (06-13-2016 05:54 PM)AquilonBE Wrote:  

Quote: (06-13-2016 05:42 PM)zigZag Wrote:  

Belgium Underperforms yet again! A Team with that much talent HAS to show up!

They still could, there were signs in the second half although I doubt they will go much further after the group stage. The coach is widely regarded here as the problem, and there's evidence for that, and the injuries they have in defence will cost them I reckon.

AFAIK they only have kompany injured and I would pick Toby and Jan over another pairing. Why not let vermaelen play at LB and let two guys who are used to playing with each other at CB play together? Origi couldnt finish in a Brothel. That guy was dreadful today and missed two chances... What is fellaini doing on the field? What's his purpose? This team is filled to brim with talent that doesnt play well together. There is no system as far as i can say so i have little faith in this team unfortunately. Italy were great though.

Quote: (06-13-2016 10:28 PM)911 Wrote:  

Italy hasn't won anything since 2006, they flamed out badly the last two world cups, losing to Costa Rica and tying New Zealand. But they, like Germany, have always have a cohesive organization and good coaching and morale. They dominated Belgium because they matched up very well: tight discipline and teamwork in the back, they exploited the weaknesses of Belgium, whose individual stars are superior to the best Italian players.

I believe that Belgium's starting 11 cumulatively are the most expensive 11 of this tournament. Hazard, de Bruyne, Kompany, Courtois, Benteke, Fellaini, Carasco, these guys are all EPL/Ligua superstars. It's a golden generation for Belgium, and it's being spoiled by abysmal coaching.

The parts in bold say it all.

As I said yesterday before the game, there are 2 problems with Wilmots:
1) He wants his personal friends (Hazard, Fellaini, Witsel, Ciman, Benteke) to play, no matter what.
2) He refuses to let go of his 4-2-3-1 formation, even when he doesn't have the players for it.

This translates to multiple problems:
1) The transition between defence and offence is too slow. Witsel is a good player but he slows down the pace too much. Fellaini has zero technique. If these two play together on the midfield, the transitions will always be too slow to surprise the adversary. The defensive couple should always have Naingolan, with either Witsel or Dembele as the second defensive midfielder. Fellaini shouldn't be on the pitch.
2) Hazard or De Bruyne (or both like yesterday!) are forced to play from the side, a position that they both hate. De Bruyne should be number 10, always. Hazard on the bench as his substitute or as second striker.
3) The real wingers (Carrasco, Mertens) are on the bench or even at home (Musonda Jr - what a disgrace he isn't part of the team).
4) Center backs (Vertonghen) or sub par players (Ciman) play on the back positions.

Moreover Wilmots fired everyone who didn't agree with him from the technical staff, including the incredibly competent (and highly liked by the players) physical therapist.

The player's reaction after yesterday's game was clear. Courtois said: "Italy has outclassed us when it comes to tactics and organisation."

Quote: (06-13-2016 10:41 PM)sonoran_ Wrote:  

1. This tournament has gotten off with very low scores. Im comparing this to the Brazil world cup however.

I have the impression that this trend has been going on for a while. Euro 2004 and World Cup 2006 offered more attractive football and higher scoring than the 2008 and 2010 editions, which in turn were more attractive than the 2012 and 2014 editions, ...

I see three reasons:

1) As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, a lot of teams are playing possession football for the sake of having possession of the ball. This means a lot of boring lateral passes and not a lot of forward momentum.

2) Linesmen are very quick to flag for offside. In most offside calls, the attacking player wasn't even offside. It used to be that there had to be grass visible between the defender and the attacker before offside was called. Then this switched to the attacker being in front of the defender. And now offside is already called when they are simply on the same line. As a result, an enormous amount of promising attacks are broken down by the over eager linesmen.
I think some kind of technical system is necessary, although - knowing Fifa and Uefa - this will probably take ages to implement, just like the goal line tech.

3) The tolerance for faults keeps on going up. Nowadays, accepted standard ways to stop the attacker are shoulder charges, hanging on to shirts, elbows, kicking on the shins or ankles, tripping him,... Most defenders are more concerned with bringing the attacking player down or blocking his passage than with actually stealing the ball from him.
As a result, coaches keep on selecting ever taller and stronger players instead of quick, agile and technically skilled players.

Could be all in my head though...

What about the "war" going on between Russia and England? I saw on the media today, both sides accusing eachother of attacking first.
I see like this: The Russian hools attacked the Brits, and the Brits tried to flee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Aaqc3hPpE

But to call Russian Holls "evil" is contra-productive and just raises the tension even more:

   

what do you guys think?

Russia and Britain hate each other since the age of empires. this hatred and rivalry manifested itself through the great game (battle for control of central asia), the Crimean war, the Cold War, now the current motif is the sanctions and distrust of the intentions of Putin and their social conservatism.

It's just something you must accept as part of the British psychology, ingrained by history. This won't change. Putin can find a cure for Cancer, eliminate every religious extremist and let Ukraine become a (truly) independent country and this won't change.

The Football hooliganism in France is just another thing the media pounced on and have spun in a way to make you think is part of something deeper in society/sell news to the lowest common denominator.

Quote: (06-13-2016 06:59 PM)911 Wrote:  

Wilmots sucks, you have to pay the price for him before he can get fired, one world cup and one Euro spoiled.

Hang on where is this idea that Belgium have a world class team coming from? As far as I'm concerned, they have 2 world class players (Hazard and Kompany). The other good players are Courtois, De Bruyne and Alderweireld.

A lot of the other players wouldn't even get in England's team, and that's saying something. Our full backs, strikers and midfielders (excluding Hazard/De Bruyne) are better.

Also got the pleasure of listening to the wonderful Italian national anthem, that would really get you pumped as a player!

Russian football hooligans still think England are champions of the Football Hooligan World Cup and they desperately want to own that trophy themselves.

I feel you man, but to send the Russian fans home , but on the other Hand let the English fans in France is also a kind of double standard. Well then keep both groups there and set them free. Just my 2ct.

Russians have a proud football hooligan culture, we don't have as many hooligans as we used to, mainly just fans who had to either fight back, run away or get beaten. I'm sorry but the Russians have to go back.

Quote: (06-14-2016 08:44 AM)britchard Wrote:  

Hang on where is this idea that Belgium have a world class team coming from? As far as I'm concerned, they have 2 world class players (Hazard and Kompany). The other good players are Courtois, De Bruyne and Alderweireld.

A lot of the other players wouldn't even get in England's team, and that's saying something. Our full backs, strikers and midfielders (excluding Hazard/De Bruyne) are better.

Also got the pleasure of listening to the wonderful Italian national anthem, that would really get you pumped as a player!

The Belgian team apparently has the highest market value of all participating teams, that's where the assumption comes from.

But I agree with you, a lot of that value comes from Hazard, Benteke and Lukaku who are some of the most overvalued players in the world for me.

According to me:
world class players: Courtois, Kompany, De Bruyne
very good players: Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Witsel, Naingolan, Dembele, Carrasco, Hazard, Mignolet
decent players: Lombaerts, Mertens, Batshuayi
not good enough to ever win something: all the rest

Basically I think we are as strong (or stronger) than any team on the goalkeeper, center back, defensive midfield and number 10 positions.
Our strikers and wing backs suck, wingers are a mixed bag (and Wilmots refuses to use them) - England (and other teams) is indeed a lot stronger on those positions.

Yeah Belgium is fucking top notch. I was hoping they would win last night.
I do think Lukaku is fucking up way to much for Everton AND Belgium.

I'm really hoping Iceland do well also.

Quote:rudebwoy Wrote:

I hate Ze Germans, but they always find away to win. Why was Schweinsteger celebrating like he won the tournament with that goal.

It was his first goal in 5 years, I couldn't believe that, too. He did not score when he won the world championship 2014,last goal 2011. He only prepared goals.

Quote:Quote:

http://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/em-201...-sind.html

"We have shown that the British are girls" After the violent excesses in the Football Championship told a Russian Hooligan what it really was in the streets of Marseille. The battle was even filmed. The Russians were very well prepared.

"In such a chance I've been waiting ten years. 120 Russians have beaten 2000 Englishman to flight, and the whole world has seen it," said the Russian, who only want to be called Vladimir, the French news agency AFP.

"They are fakers. They are not ready to fight with their fists. They can not. We have won. This has nothing to do with hatred. We wanted to show is that we are the strongest." Better he could hardly express the futility of violence.Wladimir has two children. He says: "Then I would sit down with pleasure with an Englishman, I've just beaten to the bar, have a beer and talk about politics." The man stressed that the Russian hooligans were well prepared for these championships. According to him, all are trained in various martial arts, also you had been sober and generally younger than the English, "the drink lots of beer".

Monday had the hooligans who were involved in the riots, strengthen the back, a senior Russian football official. Igor Lebedev, Vice-President of the Russian parliament and member of the board of the Russian Football Union RFS tweeted: "I can find nothing bad to fighting fans Rather the opposite Bravo, guys, keep up..!"

It not only shows now at the Euro, it also shows at global politics, SJW and other stuff that the Russians keep their frame while mane Europeans get carried away...

Lets see what happen in the match Germany vs Poland.

"Proud hooligan culture"

Hooligan culture is a fucking disgrace and I hope all the yobs get deported.

Hooligan culture ruined Italian football, it fucked English football, and it's senseless wankery.