Quote: (12-10-2011 12:23 PM)Jalouse Wrote:  

I really think people have some whack ideas about what you need to be wealthy, the 22 year old making 20k a month location independent is not wealthy? Only in a handful of cities in the world is this not wealthy.

I'm a greedy son of a bitch, who doesn't seem to have a concept of "enough". It took me decades to learn to stop over-reaching with my time and ambition, and to grow slowly and steadily, but my vision for what is wealthy still has no real cut off point.

However I'll feel moderately successful when I again reach $1000 profit per day average. Or will I? Nope, by then I'll be dreaming about buying a big chunk of land for a farm. And after that I'll think I need a hotel to be successful.

Harry, appreciate the responses. But two things.

Quote:Quote:

The major difference is that while you are chasing them and gaming them, the shoe is on the other foot when you are wealthy.

Most of these girls are probably gold-diggers.

Game gets girls who are genuinely hot for your cock.

Quote:Quote:

Anyone who thinks game is going to compete against real wealth is day dreaming though. Its a knock out punch for men under 40, its a cakewalk for men under 50 and the older boys over 60 could still get more ass in a weekend than Mystery would in a year if they wanted to.

Why? Because only 1% of that 10% you are talking about makes that sort of scratch. They are not around every corner and they are a fucking whale for any bitch that can land them and keep them for a while. If anyone is dumb enough to think that a few negs and a bit of "whatever we want to call it today game" is going to trump that, they are fucking delusional or retarded.

Now this argument is fucking ridiculous. We're having an academic discussion over whether or not game is more useful than money, and you come in saying "Well if you had 1 billion dollars it'd be better than any amount of game".

Who gives a shit? So what if money is better than game at the super ultra elite levels? None of us will ever be there unless we get very, very lucky.

I feel bad for anyone who desires to have that much money. What a fucking suckers life. You'd have to pedestalize money the same way a beta has oneitis for some random chick.

And, oh yeah, let's not forget about Mark Zuckerburg... BETA BILLIONAIRE!


Furthermore, you say

Quote:Quote:

Thats the whole fucking point though. People look at a doctor pulling 350k a year and think the guy has money. He is upper middle class, he is not wealthy. He is well off, HE IS NOT WEALTHY.

So, really, money isn't better than game unless you are in the top .0001% income bracket?




Really? Is this the best defense the money guys have to offer? Game > Money, not even a contest now.

Quote: (12-10-2011 03:48 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Quote: (12-10-2011 02:11 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Harry:

Quote:Quote:

But I can tell you one thing, and thats that you wont see many guys in their 50's banging hot women in their 20's unless they have either a shitload of money

Why, because they are buying hookers? MiXX's grandfather impregnated a teen Columbina in his 70's... and MiXX's grandfather was not rich by any standard.

Jesus bro, you really need to stop sing anecdotal bullshit as justification for broad based views. This is what women do when they try to justify emotional positions they have taken by trying to rationalise things using one off examples.

This "anecdotal bullshit" is no more outrageous than your claim of needing to make over a million per year to have serious results with women.

MiXX's grandfather represented the top .0001% of men with game... and he's probably comparable to a guy whose income is in the top .0001%.




See, the question is: WHICH IS MORE USEFUL FOR THE AVERAGE MAN - GAME OR MONEY?

And game is such the obvious choice.


Of course, you want both game and money. But game gets a greater return on investment by a longshot.

Quote:Quote:

1) WHAT IS "GAME?"
2) HOW NATURAL DOES MY "GAME" BECOME WHEN I HAVE MONEY
3) HOW MUCH MORE SEX DO I GET WHEN GAME IS COMING NATURALLY TO ME?

1. Game is your ability to make a woman lust for you
2. None at all. Mark Zuckerburg is a billionaire beta.
3. Which is why Game > Money



Athlone:

Quote:Quote:

Not trolling, just being honest.

As for the rest of your points...what Hooligan Harry said.

Maybe you should read closely what Harry said... as a lawyer making even 160K, you're a joke. Time to start making those cold approaches, son.



By the way... Harry still has plenty of respect FOR THE GAME:

Quote:Hooligan Harry Wrote:

Quote: Vacancier Permanen Wrote:

That's an awesome yet extremely telling experiment HH. I am not the least surprised the least by the results. And totally agree with you that when you reach a certain level of success/money, game becomes quite irrelevant as these hot babes/bitches will come to you and look for you.

I disagree with that. There is no doubt money makes it easy to pick women up and also fuck them, but if you are a useless chud with a fat wallet you are going to be taken advantage of. Women dont respect weak men no matter how good looking or wealthy they may be, so game is still important.

There is balance in everything. Money at this level is a game changer, although all it allows you to do is dictate everything on your terms. Managing that though is still going to require a way with bitches and if you have zero game you are going to have problems.

Quote: (12-12-2011 01:22 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Athlone:

Quote:Quote:

Not trolling, just being honest.

As for the rest of your points...what Hooligan Harry said.

Maybe you should read closely what Harry said... as a lawyer making even 160K, you're a joke. Time to start making those cold approaches, son.

Sure man. Whatever makes you feel better.

Quote: (12-12-2011 02:52 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Quote: (12-12-2011 01:22 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Athlone:

Quote:Quote:

Not trolling, just being honest.

As for the rest of your points...what Hooligan Harry said.

Maybe you should read closely what Harry said... as a lawyer making even 160K, you're a joke. Time to start making those cold approaches, son.

Sure man. Whatever makes you feel better.

So easily insulted. Even light-hearted jokes get you down.

Quote: (12-12-2011 03:16 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

So easily insulted. Even light-hearted jokes get you down.

Nobody's mad, dude.

Quote: (12-12-2011 01:22 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Harry, appreciate the responses. But two things.

Quote:Quote:

The major difference is that while you are chasing them and gaming them, the shoe is on the other foot when you are wealthy.

Most of these girls are probably gold-diggers.

You could apply that logic to anything. You could say that most of the girls who go after really good looking guys are shallow. Or you could say that most of the girls who fall for a guy with game are idiots that are easily manipulated. It is really no different that what a lot of guys do when they call any girl who rejects them a stuck up bitch.

What makes more sense and speaks better of a woman judgement? Choosing a man who is obviously successful in life, or choosing the less successful guy that is "cocky funny" and negs her every 10 minutes?

Quote: (12-12-2011 01:22 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Game gets girls who are genuinely hot for your cock.

If the girl was already hot for your cock, you wouldn't need any game to begin with.

Joe i thought you were breaking down about weather we should put money over bitches or the opposite, you always come out with great arguments, it would be good to hear your opinion on this (actually i was thinking to pm you so you could participate on the debate).

I think one factor that people are not considering (or at least it hasn't been discussed in this thread) is WHEN money enhances or restricts your freedom.

Some folks on this thread talk about how money gives you this additional freedom. Samseau, talks about how money makes you a slave. In truth I have seen BOTH.

For me money's is valuable ONLY in my ability to use it to have the lifestyle that I want. In my case, that lifestyle involves lots of travel and lots of women. TRUST ME when I tell you that travel (and gaming women while traveling), even to developing nations, is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier and more fulfilling when you have cash. I've done it both ways, I prefer to have a fat bankroll.

There is none of this "can I find some job locally teaching English?" shit when you have a steady stream of passive income.

None of this "How do I get a girl to fuck me at my hostel?" when you are renting a nice apartment or staying at a nice hotel.

None of this "The club door fees are so expensive here." when you already have a fat bankroll.

Being able to hop on a plane and go where you want, when you want, is an amazing thing, and something EVERY wannabe international player should be striving for (IMHO). To do that, you need cash.

HOWEVER, I have seen guys become slaves to the money like Samseau wrote about. I know a dude that pulls $1,000,000+ a year with his bonuses. He works for a major financial firm. The problem is that in exchange for that million, he pulls 80 hour work weeks. The dude has some decent game, he just has NO TIME to really use it. One of the interesting things is that because of his income, there is a whole class of women in NYC that aggressively pursue him (and guys like him). On one hand he doesn't have to put in much work for quality poon. On the other hand his lack of time limits his options. A lot of these guys just wind up getting married because they just don't have the time to chase tail.

This doesn't have to be the case. If one focuses on developing a business WHILE always being aware of the lifestyle that they want to have, they can have the money and the time to use it. In my life, I have not had a "job" in 4 or 5 years, yet I make solid money as a consultant/freelancer and travel often. Next year I will have a milestone of having a 6 figure income WHILE being 100% location independent. I have had both, but not at the same time before. From there, my plan is to transition from consultancy (which is fundamentally a labor driven business and hard to scale) to web businesses that scale better. Essentially now that I have broken the chains of location from my income, my next goal is to shatter the direct correlation between hours worked and income generated.

Part of that involves making hard decisions. I had to turn down a job offer this year that would have started at an almost 40% pay increase. The extra money was not worth being stuck in the US for 50 weeks out of the year. My goal is not to be enslaved by anyone through a job. At the same time I REFUSE to be enslaved by poverty. So I chose a path of location independent entrepreneurship.

Quote: (12-12-2011 08:49 AM)joehoya Wrote:  

I think one factor that people are not considering (or at least it hasn't been discussed in this thread) is WHEN money enhances or restricts your freedom.

Some folks on this thread talk about how money gives you this additional freedom. Samseau, talks about how money makes you a slave. In truth I have seen BOTH.

For me money's is valuable ONLY in my ability to use it to have the lifestyle that I want. In my case, that lifestyle involves lots of travel and lots of women. TRUST ME when I tell you that travel (and gaming women while traveling), even to developing nations, is MUCH MUCH MUCH easier and more fulfilling when you have cash. I've done it both ways, I prefer to have a fat bankroll.

There is none of this "can I find some job locally teaching English?" shit when you have a steady stream of passive income.

None of this "How do I get a girl to fuck me at my hostel?" when you are renting a nice apartment or staying at a nice hotel.

None of this "The club door fees are so expensive here." when you already have a fat bankroll.

Being able to hop on a plane and go where you want, when you want, is an amazing thing, and something EVERY wannabe international player should be striving for (IMHO). To do that, you need cash.

HOWEVER, I have seen guys become slaves to the money like Samseau wrote about. I know a dude that pulls $1,000,000+ a year with his bonuses. He works for a major financial firm. The problem is that in exchange for that million, he pulls 80 hour work weeks. The dude has some decent game, he just has NO TIME to really use it. One of the interesting things is that because of his income, there is a whole class of women in NYC that aggressively pursue him (and guys like him). On one hand he doesn't have to put in much work for quality poon. On the other hand his lack of time limits his options. A lot of these guys just wind up getting married because they just don't have the time to chase tail.

This doesn't have to be the case. If one focuses on developing a business WHILE always being aware of the lifestyle that they want to have, they can have the money and the time to use it. In my life, I have not had a "job" in 4 or 5 years, yet I make solid money as a consultant/freelancer and travel often. Next year I will have a milestone of having a 6 figure income WHILE being 100% location independent. I have had both, but not at the same time before. From there, my plan is to transition from consultancy (which is fundamentally a labor driven business and hard to scale) to web businesses that scale better. Essentially now that I have broken the chains of location from my income, my next goal is to shatter the direct correlation between hours worked and income generated.

Part of that involves making hard decisions. I had to turn down a job offer this year that would have started at an almost 40% pay increase. The extra money was not worth being stuck in the US for 50 weeks out of the year. My goal is not to be enslaved by anyone through a job. At the same time I REFUSE to be enslaved by poverty. So I chose a path of location independent entrepreneurship.

Exactly. Money is an important tool and needs to be prioritized as such. You don't need to be a millionaire but having the freedom to buy plane and train tickets, rent a decent apartment, have a nice meal, all without keeping a constant eye on your bank account balance is a great position to be in. A life of flopping in cheap hostels and teaching English can be a fun experience when someone is 18-22 but I don't think it is a lifestyle most people will want to make part of their long term plans.

Quote: (12-12-2011 08:49 AM)joehoya Wrote:  

I think one factor that people are not considering (or at least it hasn't been discussed in this thread) is WHEN money enhances or restricts your freedom.

Some folks on this thread talk about how money gives you this additional freedom. Samseau, talks about how money makes you a slave. In truth I have seen BOTH.

I can agree with this as myself and many of us security clearance-holding dudes in the DC area. We have to always ASK if we can go to some foreign land and get approval. It sucks when you they tell you that you will have to do a "lot of explainin'" to visit Colombia.

But we swallow that because I.T. defense contracting is probably the only industry in the USA that is not being affected by the economy as much as the rest of the USA. Sure, it isn't wealthy money, but being paid around $150-250K isn't bad for basically "showing up and using the fear of national security of the general public" to justify creating contracts.

Quote: (12-12-2011 08:18 AM)joehoya Wrote:  

Quote: (12-12-2011 01:22 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Harry, appreciate the responses. But two things.

Quote:Quote:

The major difference is that while you are chasing them and gaming them, the shoe is on the other foot when you are wealthy.

Most of these girls are probably gold-diggers.

You could apply that logic to anything. You could say that most of the girls who go after really good looking guys are shallow. Or you could say that most of the girls who fall for a guy with game are idiots that are easily manipulated. It is really no different that what a lot of guys do when they call any girl who rejects them a stuck up bitch.

There are two types of women:
1.  Women who go after men because of their money wants to use his money.
2.  Women who go after men because of their looks, game, lifestyle, talents, or sometimes even fame and money, wants to use his cock.

I'm not saying money can't be attractive to women... I'm saying the vast majority of women attracted to a rich man are gold-diggers, and do not give a fuck about the man who has the money.  They aren't attracted to him, they simply want the $$$ the same way Pusscrook uses women for money.

Quote:Quote:

What makes more sense and speaks better of a woman judgement? Choosing a man who is obviously successful in life, or choosing the less successful guy that is "cocky funny" and negs her every 10 minutes?

Honestly, if women had good judgement, they wouldn't choose either of these types of men. They'd choose modest men of modest means who'd be excellent husbands.

Quote: (12-12-2011 01:22 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

Game gets girls who are genuinely hot for your cock.

If the girl was already hot for your cock, you wouldn't need any game to begin with.

True... but that only happens when your money becomes astronomical. For the average guy, making money will take him far longer down the pussy highway than trying to make 1 million per year.

Game is just far more versatile and useful for the average man. And then if this average man does come across a big pile of cash, guess what? He's gonna be a rockstar.

Quote: (12-12-2011 02:09 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Honestly, if women had good judgement, they wouldn't choose either of these types of men. They'd choose modest men of modest means who'd be excellent husbands.

Dear Samseau, I will have to disagree with this assessment.
This would be a bad choice by a woman. Why would a modest man of modest means be a great husband for that woman?

What goes further, modest means or great means? The best assessment is to see how it goes in a third world country.

In a third world country, the ultimate essence of human nature is exposed. No silly problems are exposed. Only real problems are there and you see what really goes down. It's survival and at the end of the day, we are still driven by the primal survival instinct.

If you as a man, had the choice, would you choose an average woman of average looks over a dyme?

Looks to men is the same as money to women.

Now a woman with game can use her looks to get something profitable out of the man she snares with her looks.
Money will lure a woman. If a man has game, he can use that to get something profitable out of the woman he snares with the money i.e. bait to attract more hot women or hotter women or even set her out there to trick on chump ass clowns with money but no game.

That is the game, bruv.

Quote:Quote:

This would be a bad choice by a woman. Why would a modest man of modest means be a great husband for that woman?

Because he'd be loyal to the family and work hard to provide. He'd end up becoming more successful and he'd never cheat. He'd give the children amazing educations and make sure everyone was as happy as could be.

Quote:Quote:

If you as a man, had the choice, would you choose an average woman of average looks over a dyme?

And if men had good sense, we'd choose the average women over the hot ones.

But we don't, and ignore the average women even though they are almost always superior wife material.

Quote: (12-12-2011 07:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Quote:Quote:

This would be a bad choice by a woman. Why would a modest man of modest means be a great husband for that woman?

Because he'd be loyal to the family and work hard to provide. He'd end up becoming more successful and he'd never cheat. He'd give the children amazing educations and make sure everyone was as happy as could be.

You're joking, right?

I understand that as a man, it's quite a leap of imagination to conceive that money is an attraction trigger.

Men see money as a tool. We don't want to fuck money, and can't imagine a woman getting attracted to a man just because he owns a tool.

Women do think quite differently than men. They emote differently. Think of a fat wallet to be the male version of titties. A man can feel enhanced attraction to a woman because of the titties. He doesn't just want to use her titties. He is attracted to the woman.

It's the same with money. Money can enhance a womans interest in the whole man.

Although this happens often, it is difficult for men to empathize with.

Samseau said:

Quote:Quote:

So what if money is better than game at the super ultra elite levels? None of us will ever be there unless we get very, very lucky.

Quote:Quote:

True... but that only happens when your money becomes astronomical. For the average guy, making money will take him far longer down the pussy highway than trying to make 1 million per year.

Aha! Now we get to the root of the problem.

Your issue is not whether or not money is better than game (it is); the problem that you have is that you do not believe that you will ever become wealthy.

You agree that money will do little or no good unless one reaches the extremely wealthy millionaire-level. This isn't some pithy 6 figure doctor's or lawyer's income. However, you do not believe that it is possible for a man to become rich in the U.S.A.

Here's the truth:

It is possible for the average man to become rich in the U.S.A. while still young.

There have been more millionaires minted in the last 5 years than in the last 50 years. Despite all the criticisms that the U.S. receives, it is still one of the, if not the, best places to make it.

People are poor because of poor decisions. People are still following society's rules for making money.

I'm sure by now almost all the readers on the forum agree on the importance of passive income. Most of society today is still obsessed with active income. People still believe that the only way to make money is to work at a job. They trade away their time (which is essentially their lives) for money. It's stupid!

People buy value. They don't care about your time. Find a way to divorce your time from your value and you have passive income. Scale that value (impact millions of people) and you'll have wealth. Some examples include rent, licenses, royalties, products, inventions, and loans.

After people become rich, they use compound interest to preserve their wealth and maintain their lifestyles. For example, let's say that you have $10,000,000. At a simple interest rate of 5% of the principle, that's $500,000! That's way more than enough to finance my ideal lifestyle. Have you ever looked at a politician's financial record? They're available to the public. And guess what? This is exactly what they're doing!

Poor people work for money. Rich people let their money work for them.

This is why you hear of lottery winners that go flat broke in a few years.

I wish I could put up my m.o.b. tattoo but I dont want to put myself out there that much.

lol

http://expatriateobservations.blogspot.c...e-now.html

This article is a great contribution to our debate.

Quote:Quote:

True... but that only happens when your money becomes astronomical. For the average guy, making money will take him far longer down the pussy highway than trying to make 1 million per year.

That's a typo. It should say, "For the average guy, learning game will take him far longer down the pussy highway..."

Quote:Quote:

It is possible for the average man to become rich in the U.S.A. while still young.

There have been more millionaires minted in the last 5 years than in the last 50 years. Despite all the criticisms that the U.S. receives, it is still one of the, if not the, best places to make it.

Go read what Harry wrote. Being a millionaire isn't enough. You need to be pulling 1 million PER YEAR. That's basically multi-millionaire status. Being a millionaire is nothing.

Quote: (12-13-2011 02:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Go read what Harry wrote. Being a millionaire isn't enough. You need to be pulling 1 million PER YEAR. That's basically multi-millionaire status. Being a millionaire is nothing.

It's nothing in terms of? I think having a million can go a long way if one is smart.
People want to be competitive when if you have that and you open up a business in a developing country you can live like a king.
A lot of people want to compare to the absolute richest person around and when you live in a developed country, you will need a lot of money to 'appear' like a baller to these thirsty lizards.

As long as one is not location restricted through their means of making money and can travel freely, you have many countries in the world who are considered 'developing' that has a dish for every taste of man on this forum.
Asian, White, Latin, Black. Even one of my friends explained his hunger for brown lizards (that's what we call South Asian lizards in the dot).
I told him let's go to Guyana or Trinidad and we can bang until we burp.

My point is, fcuk the multi-millionaires. If one makes a lot of money to a certain point, that person will become so famous that most of the lizards they encounter will be of the gold digging nature.
Anonymity with wealth definitely has its pros.

The person with wealth will need the type of game that reduces the damage a lizard could do to their reputation (and finances).
In this era, a lizard can hit a guy with fat cheese up through child support (if he barebacks and impregnates), alimony (if he marries her) or false rape allegations (especially in NA).
That's why some high rollers just make it a straight transaction between themselves and the lizard so there can be no misinterpretations in court of the consensual acts between the two.

Quote: (12-13-2011 03:03 PM)Moma Wrote:  

Quote: (12-13-2011 02:48 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Go read what Harry wrote. Being a millionaire isn't enough. You need to be pulling 1 million PER YEAR. That's basically multi-millionaire status. Being a millionaire is nothing.

It's nothing in terms of? I think having a million can go a long way if one is smart.

Exactly. If you have a million in liquid assets and are single, you've basically earned your freedom. Even if invested conservatively, you'll have enough to live comfortably anywhere and live quite well if you are outside a big developed world city. Factor in that you'll probably still want to do some sort of work at least part-time so you aren't insanely bored, and you've clearly got few financial constraints once you've reached that level of wealth. I guess it is a question of whether you want the level of wealth that makes you free and secure or the level of wealth that will make pussy fall from the sky. If the latter, yeah you may want more than a million.

I think people here agree that IN LIFE as a whole money is more important than game.

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches) is a term that was created by rappers right?

Didn't Tupac make this famous?

He could have banged different women everyday of his life. He also could have focused on business and making money. His advice was money over bitches. What does that tell you? A man who had women throwing themselves at him is telling us to choose money over hoes.

When you literally have millions of dollars and thousands of hoes, I will listen carefully to your opinion.

When you are not getting girls, they seem priceless. When you are fucking a few of them, they seem worthless for anything except sex. I guess it just comes down to individual preference. Some guys need the security of money to be happy, others would rather have a steady supply of p*ssy to be happy. I like a healthy balance of both.

Quote: (12-13-2011 05:46 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches) is a term that was created by rappers right?

Didn't Tupac make this famous?

He could have banged different women everyday of his life. He also could have focused on business and making money. His advice was money over bitches. What does that tell you? A man who had women throwing themselves at him is telling us to choose money over hoes.

When you literally have millions of dollars and thousands of hoes, I will listen carefully to your opinion.

When you are not getting girls, they seem priceless. When you are fucking a few of them, they seem worthless for anything except sex. I guess it just comes down to individual preference. Some guys need the security of money to be happy, others would rather have a steady supply of p*ssy to be happy. I like a healthy balance of both.

Tupac was killed at 25. All that money did him a lot of good.



EDIT:

It was probably his love of money that created so many haters who ended up taking him down.