Quote: (01-16-2016 04:29 PM)262 Wrote:  

Quote: (01-16-2016 04:17 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Another issue is that you guys keep broads way too long. Talking about LTR this, and LTR that. I swear, I personally think 99% of RVF members are not qualified for LTRs. A RVF member LTR typically should 1 month to 1 year max. Any longer and you are just creating the carousel riding whore with blue hair and cats that we all fucking hate. Stop it. Please for the sake of humanity, get over your oneitises and just let the broads go. Almost none of you would know what to do with a unicorn if one fell in your lap.

I'd say he is probably more right than wrong for most guys here. If I am honest with my own past, many of my relationships were over around the year mark even if I did stay in them for longer.

I had one friend stay with a chick for 7 years knowing he wouldn't marry her. He basically took all of her younger years and threw her away for a different model. I think she even wanted kids but can't say if she ever had them.

I should have bailed but got lazy. I think sometimes we have this idea planted in our head and stay with that even though reality tells us it's not going to happen.

Quote: (01-16-2016 04:17 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Why did you bother to keep a woman around when you hated her hair? I don't get that shit at all! I myself only gets hard over a certain style of hair and I cannot imagine wasting my time with a woman that is outside that style/look. A woman with hair I do not like would have been a ONS or pump and dump for me and I almost never do that.

Every girl you date is a 10? Broads aren't perfect man. She was very attractive I just didn't prefer her hair. Just because it's a deal breaker to you doesn't mean it is to others.

Quote: (01-16-2016 04:17 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

When hair is a no-go, men should treat that woman as if she is a bald bitch. That should automatically become a DO NOT TOUCH. Jariel is right to call you out on that back handed diss of a post, but let's dig deeper than that.

Again, you're projecting your own preferences on others. Yes, lets dig deeper...

Quote: (01-16-2016 04:17 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

Was that woman simply the best you could do? You called her an 8. Okay cool. We all know that black women are the bottom of the totem pole in the US. It has been said too many times here that the best black women would get yanked from black men if white men ever bothered to start dating them. You guys could take the top end ones and get a better experience than us with them right off the bat. Thing is the only white dudes that like black women are guys with a fetish for them in some regard or the ones that have shitty value with white women in their various circles that may include them. Which one are you?

If she was "the best I could do" I would probably still be fucking with her and not cut her loose, no?

Starting to sound to me like you are rather taking this as a personal attack against your own ethnicity or something. This some kind of white-envy bullshit you are trying to push on me, or trying to make me feel guilty that I don't prefer afro-textured hair? Would explain why you seem so miffed about it, but I won't stand for that man. I like slim girls with nice asses, smooth skin, pretty faces, long hair, and thick soft lips who are feminine. Simple as that. I already explained my reasoning for breaking things off with that girl so I'm not gonna repeat it.

Quote: (01-16-2016 04:17 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

You are basically sleeping with the enemy. You should re-evaluate what your priorities are and make peace with yourself on an inner game level before you bother touching another black woman. Just because it does not harm us any, who you fuck, and who you dump, it still is a problem for you and you should not drag others in the same position with you. Date the women you really want. Stop settling for women you do not like. Chase what you really want, because at the end of the day, you gotta lay with the bitch, not me.

I didn't settle for shit. I'm guessing you are forgetting about the part where I said I broke things off with her. Sleeping with enemy? Make peace with myself? Shit, making a mountain out of an anthill here.

[quote] (01-16-2016 06:31 AM)dads Wrote:  

Here is a rebuttal. Doesn't this method create an "alpha ghost" scenario, in which a girl is ruined for the next guy because you broke up with her "the right way"? How damaging is it to a girls ego to be broken up with by a guy, it would be very hard for her to get over that. It would also be very hard to love her next guy as much as she loves the guy that didn't love her back. So, could it be argued that the best method, in terms of helping your fellow man as opposed to your own concept of "doing the right thing" is to ghost, act beta or fade away?[/quote]

No, it doesn't make an "alpha ghost" maybe she might pine for the alpha she had sure.

I don't think there is a "right" way, more like the best way possible given the scenario in front of you.

I don't think being a man and mature about relationships should lead to acting beta, stringing along or ghosting.

In my situation of almost 2 years, I was straight up, no BS, I didn't give her all the reason, just the issues she brought up, she thanked me for being honest, told me to let her know if I change my mind. We haven't talked since, and I have no intention of talking to her again.

Sure I broke her heart, but I didn't fuck her over, I didn't string her on, and I acted mature.

[quote] (01-16-2016 06:42 AM)Agreddor Wrote:  

Why would you bend over backwards for the her next guy? You dont owe him any favours. Its his job to make her love him more than she loved you.

Think. The alpha who she always complains about her loser ex boyfriend about. Would you want to be the loser ex boyfriend in her eyes?[/quote]

It doesn't matter what you are in her eyes anymore, as soon as you break up, all bets are off, your dick can go from huge to a tic tac in her friends eyes, you could be the asshole, or you could be the mature dude who handled shit, and things didn't work out.

It doesn't matter, you don't owe her anything after you broke up with her and gave her the reasons for it.

[quote] (01-16-2016 11:33 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

Lets be honest, most long term relationships take years of trying to break up. What if you have tried to break up with a girl for two years, but for whatever reason you just cant shake her. That either one of you cant let the other go. Then it becomes much more complicated than "have a conversation where she will shed a few tears." There has to be a point where one person walks away for good. And usually its the woman.[/quote]

Disagree, it doesn't take years of breaking up, not in my eyes. Once you break up, it's done, it's over, nothing more.

You don't get back with her and break up again in an endless cycle.

You have to have the do not contact, abundance, and strong mindset to do this.

I was with mine for almost 2 years, once shit started getting serious on her end, I came to the forum, they agreed with what I should do. I dumped her for good reason.

I don't have time to waste on string girls along and breaking up and getting back together again.

If a woman catches feelings and you don't, you dump her. You don't string her along and play games. We aren't women, we don't follow with emotion, we handle the situation in front of us logically.

[quote] (01-16-2016 11:43 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

She may still pursue you and try to drag things on, but thats not on you. You break things off and cut contact. If you had a kid wither her than you obviously can't "cut contact" but you keep things civil for the sake of the kid as best you can.

I have broken up with girls I have dated for years, and not because they fucked up and it was an obvious things needed to end, but simply because things were no longer working out for me and the direction I was going. Grow some balls and tell the girl the deal.

It's evasive and dishonest at best, and damaging at worst. Someone said earlier that it's fucked up how we bitch up and down about girl flaking and ghosting but who are you if you're doing the same thing? No better for sure.[/quote]



[quote] (01-16-2016 12:23 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

[quote='General Stalin' pid='1193925' dateline='1452962636']
I firmly stand by the belief that if you are so deluded into believing that you have to talk everything out ad naseum, with every woman that comes into your life, you lack more important things going on in your life. Most likely more women. I dont really ever complain when a girl flakes or ghosts me, I am actually happy if not relieved when she does.[/quote]

You can't seriously compare a LTR to some date from a day cold approach or Tinder.

A LTR is serious, why ? Because you're investing your time into her more than a ONS or date.

Not sure why you're happy about a girl flaking or ghosts you. In fact I'd be more happy about a confimed date and the chance to bang her.


[quote] (01-16-2016 12:49 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

Mine specifically is about an LTR who I tried recently to break up with for over 2 years. She moved to my neighborhood, less than a 5 minute walk away. You're right that its on me. I would call her up when I was horny or lonely. She was always there and pursuing me as well. I ghosted her about 5 times. This last time it was for good. To be honest I have never had an LTR end with a logical discussion. Its always been a painful event. And thats why I guess I avoid them now. All of my relationships now are short term.

In the event you have an LTR and you want to finalize your break up, of course you have the discussion, but you back it up with no contact. Thats what most women do and its really effective. I know from experience. Now thats what I do and I havent had a bad break up in 5 years.[/quote]

Most of this was self inflicted on your part, you kept going back and forth with that LTR of yours, and guess what ? You invested all that time in it, when you could of been healing earlier.

You're absolutely right, it is on you, at least you learned something from it.

You shouldn't be afraid of an LTR, or anything about women in general. You should know how to handle women in a given situation in general and not have a fear about it.

Quote: (01-16-2016 08:58 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

You shouldn't be afraid of an LTR, or anything about women in general. You should know how to handle women in a given situation in general and not have a fear about it.

I shouldn't be afraid of an LTR? I am glad you have deemed it ok for everyone to want an LTR. Are you in one now? Do you come here for advice on how to handle your girl too? Everyone is doing it! Must be the dip in the economy.

On any given night I can date several women. When a girl flakes on me I save a little money, get some rest and go after the next one. You should really ask yourself why you are sweating these girls so badly that you're so upset they decide to stay home instead of see you, and what their feelings are when you break up with them.

Quote: (01-16-2016 11:21 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

I shouldn't be afraid of an LTR? I am glad you have deemed it ok for everyone to want an LTR. Are you in one now? Do you come here for advice on how to handle your girl too? Everyone is doing it! Must be the dip in the economy.

When I said afraid I wasn't being critical or insulting you.

I was simply suggesting that since it's such a "painful event" maybe that's why you have your concerns with LTR's in general, but if you're aren't down for one that's cool too. Your description of it stuck out to me, so I addressed it. Like I said most of it I think, was self inflicted.

If you want to stoop to boyish insults, that's fine, go ahead and be hostile. I'm just trying to gauge and understand what you wrote.

I said you shouldn't be AFRAID (this was the vibe I got from what you wrote, maybe hurt/jaded/burned I can only guess), not that you should be in one or not, a man shouldn't have fear of things like that with women. Some guys like LTR's some guys don't - at this point in my life, I'm done with LTR's for a long time.

I was in an LTR until about a month ago, together for almost 2 years, I was constantly fucking and gaming on the side. Hence the reviews of 14' and 15' to keep track.

I knew I needed to break up with her, things were getting very serious, so I got confirmation from some reputable and thoughtful guys on here and dumped her. They helped me on that path.

Quote: (01-16-2016 11:21 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

On any given night I can date several women. When a girl flakes on me I save a little money, get some rest and go after the next one. You should really ask yourself why you are sweating these girls so badly that you're so upset they decide to stay home instead of see you, and what their feelings are when you break up with them.

That's fine and dandy that you have abundance.

Where did I ever state that I was worried about a girl flaking or what their feelings were after I dump them ?

I said I'm stoked when a girl confirms and then I bang her, I could give 2 shits if a girl flakes. I focus on the positive, not the flakes, they don't matter at all.

I said you don't owe a woman a thing after you break up, you toss them out with a parachute after an explanation, and keep flying on.

I don't have a single worry about what my ex thinks, I don't hamster like a woman does about it.

I got into for a second too so I won't judge, but it's interesting how much hostility this particular issue seems to be generating. I didn't realize it was such a divisive topic.

Quote: (01-16-2016 04:36 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

How so? Flesh out your reasoning. Where am I wrong on that assessment? LTR stuff is popping up like crazy lately. As much as you guys ask for advice on them, some of us are dying to know what the itch is over. Where is the rationale coming from to drag women along for a ride for a long time, for no good reason, as if no new females will be available later in the year or next year to date?

I see alot of anti-abundance mindset going on lately and I really would like to know why that is.

My beef is with these two statements:

"I personally think 99% of RVF members are not qualified for LTRs."
"Almost none of you would know what to do with a unicorn if one fell in your lap."

These are broad strokes to be painting the forum membership with. Especially a membership dedicated to self-improvement.

Also, LTR does not equal anti-abundance mindset. In fact, I'd argue having a scarcity mindset sets you up for failure in anything, especially LTRs.

As for why LTR threads keep popping up, in my opinion, WIA hit the nail on the head on that one. Happens like clockwork every year as temperatures drop.

But I'd also add that non-LTR Game has been pretty much covered in the manosphere, kind of like how most travel destinations have been covered.

Quote: (01-17-2016 05:10 AM)262 Wrote:  

But I'd also add that non-LTR Game has been pretty much covered in the manosphere, kind of like how most travel destinations have been covered.

Somebody mentioned recently, maybe in Hank's abundance thread, that much of the typical game content has been discussed to death here at RVF and there needs to be some kind of evolution. Here you have it.

Quote: (01-17-2016 12:55 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

I was in an LTR until about a month ago, together for almost 2 years, I was constantly fucking and gaming on the side. Hence the reviews of 14' and 15' to keep track.

So I guess this is where we differ greatly. I see no point in having an "LTR" if all you are going to do to that woman is lie and cheat your way into an unhealthy relationship. Do you really think thats macho and cool? That you're a real bad ass that you can do that? There is no skill in that, nothing remarkable or admirable. This would indicate you're fundamentally a dishonest person, to be totally avoided. According to your logic I dont have to fear an LTR because I can just keep banging as many girls as I am now, with no concern for honesty or actually creating a healthy loving relationship with a women in order to create children. That none of the matters. Cool!

Whats the value of these "LTR's", if you are just being completely dishonest and fake? What does that do to a mans psyche. Maybe its because you believe in appearances and can not bear to be without a girlfriend, because you are too afraid of what people in your life will think?

What cracks me up even more is that you seem to put more "nobility" on how you break up with a girl, than how you actually treat her in a relationship. Its pretty twisted dude. I really dont get this logic. Of course though Im not a millennial.

And another point. For most of your time here you were in an LTR? A message board about gaming and picking up girls, your wonderful relationship was so good that you had to vicariously live through other men that live more genuine lives. Who are actually honest with the women they are with, and dont lead them on. I really dont understand how if your relationship was so good, you would have to come here and pretend to be a player.

I'm not gonna play cheerleader as kaotic doesn't need anyone to defend him, but Vaun you should consider that not a whole lot of dudes on this forum believe in true monogamy. Plenty of members here preach about regularly banging on the side if you have a main girl etc. Many argue that this helps the LTR because it keeps them from getting super bored fucking the same person for years on end, and also keeps their game sharp and keep the abundance mindset.

I personally don't practice it but I can see the logic and won't knock others for doing it. There is no "right" way to navigate a relationship, there are just socially programmed cultural norms.

Quote: (01-17-2016 11:22 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I'm not gonna play cheerleader as kaotic doesn't need anyone to defend him, but Vaun you should consider that not a whole lot of dudes on this forum believe in true monogamy. Plenty of members here preach about regularly banging on the side if you have a main girl etc. Many argue that this helps the LTR because it keeps them from getting super bored fucking the same person for years on end, and also keeps their game sharp and keep the abundance mindset.

I personally don't practice it but I can see the logic and won't knock others for doing it. There is no "right" way to navigate a relationship, there are just socially programmed cultural norms.

Then why have a girlfriend? Someone to split the rent with?

Pair bonding, procreation, the nurturing presence of a loving woman, someone to come home to, go out with, grow old with, etc. All the reasons any man wants to be in a long-term relationship surely.

Quote: (01-17-2016 11:22 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I'm not gonna play cheerleader as kaotic doesn't need anyone to defend him, but Vaun you should consider that not a whole lot of dudes on this forum believe in true monogamy. Plenty of members here preach about regularly banging on the side if you have a main girl etc. Many argue that this helps the LTR because it keeps them from getting super bored fucking the same person for years on end, and also keeps their game sharp and keep the abundance mindset.

I personally don't practice it but I can see the logic and won't knock others for doing it. There is no "right" way to navigate a relationship, there are just socially programmed cultural norms.

Really liked this post. I would clarify at the end that there are just socially programmed norms + biological imperative.

This means that even in a society, for example Asia, where the men often take the monogamous route w/ hoes on the side. The women do often know or find out eventually and it hurts them.

Is the alternative of boring monogamy and a bad relationship worse? I am not one to make that call. But so far when I have been in a relationship I have not fucked girls on the side.

The obvious choice is to improve your own value/game so that you can raise your standards, then at least the chicks you are hurting can easily replace you.

The other less obvious choice but my preferred is to invite the ltr into my antifragile social group of playas and trusted girls who are friends- so as to increase my power in her eyes so that I can do what I want. Requires more honesty, more work maintaining relationships, but my preferred angle.

P.S. think like a cult leader

Quote: (01-17-2016 11:32 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Pair bonding, procreation, the nurturing presence of a loving woman, someone to come home to, go out with, grow old with, etc. All the reasons any man wants to be in a long-term relationship surely.

Which is all a farce if you are fucking other women. Can we include lavender scented stuff, roses, flower petals and candles while we are at it? I would rather have rooms full of guitars.

My theory is that most men need a GF (without procreating) either because they; need help in paying the rent, or they are afraid to be single. Its really an exercise for broke and lonely people, or people who need a beard.

Quote: (01-17-2016 11:01 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

So I guess this is where we differ greatly. I see no point in having an "LTR" if all you are going to do to that woman is lie and cheat your way into an unhealthy relationship. Do you really think thats macho and cool? That you're a real bad ass that you can do that? There is no skill in that, nothing remarkable or admirable. This would indicate you're fundamentally a dishonest person, to be totally avoided. According to your logic I dont have to fear an LTR because I can just keep banging as many girls as I am now, with no concern for honesty or actually creating a healthy loving relationship with a women in order to create children. That none of the matters. Cool!

The relationship wasn't unhealthy at all, it was definitely loving. The other girls were just fun, gave me variety, and kept my head on straight.

Never said it was macho or cool, let alone bad ass.

You can try dragging me down Vaun, but you won't. I know how I view myself.

Actually there is ALOT of skill involved in pulling like that something off.

I'm not dishonest at all, I've never fucked any of my buddy's ex's or hook ups, I don't cheat at anything, lie about projects at work, etc. It's solely game and women based.

When I said fear, I mean fear of getting hurt, burned, strung along, all the negatives, not the positives.

Notice how I said focused on the positives in my last post ? That was for a reason.

Quote:Quote:

Whats the value of these "LTR's", if you are just being completely dishonest and fake? What does that do to a mans psyche. Maybe its because you believe in appearances and can not bear to be without a girlfriend, because you are too afraid of what people in your life will think?

What cracks me up even more is that you seem to put more "nobility" on how you break up with a girl, than how you actually treat her in a relationship. Its pretty twisted dude. I really dont get this logic. Of course though Im not a millennial.

An LTR clearly means her looks will go downhill the longer you're with her, so no it's not just about her appearances. I'm usually the guy who doesn't have a GF, or years between exes. I don't break up with with one girls to lock up another.

It's not nobility, it's cutting through the bullshit fadeaway, ghosting, or acting beta. To me it's a waste of time when you should just be direct and honest.

I know what my friends think of me, otherwise...they wouldn't be friends to begin with. If anything I could give a shit less about how people view me, they don't matter, the ones that do will obviously still be there. A GF isn't a projection of my image to everyone else.

My emotions and my views of her weren't fake - I enjoyed my time with her, I treated her great, and vice versa. Obviously I realized I was wasting her time as was I mine, so I dumped her. Clearly there was a lesson to be learned, which I did.

That's the main takeaway, I've learned not to do that anymore, that an LTR clearly isn't for me and I've changed my mindset.

Countless times I've said on the forum, what I did wasn't for the faint of heart, it was questionable, some guys would feel guilty, that they may disagree with me, which is fine.

Quote:Quote:

And another point. For most of your time here you were in an LTR? A message board about gaming and picking up girls, your wonderful relationship was so good that you had to vicariously live through other men that live more genuine lives. Who are actually honest with the women they are with, and dont lead them on. I really dont understand how if your relationship was so good, you would have to come here and pretend to be a player.

I wasn't pretending to be anything at all, I'd say maybe a little more than half my time here, I was with that LTR.

I wasn't living through anyone, I was just explaining my thoughts, what I did, I wasn't asking for validation, likes, rep points. I came here for self improvement, inner game, sharpening my dating skillset, etc.

Once again, I learned my lesson about LTR's, that they aren't for me, it isn't fair to either of us, and not to waste time.

Quote: (01-17-2016 11:55 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

My theory is that most men need a GF (without procreating) either because they; need help in paying the rent, or they are afraid to be single. Its really an exercise for broke and lonely people, or people who need a beard.

Or maybe we just like one girl more than the others, she's better quality and we like having her around a lot more than the average plate or ons.

I've been alone most my life, I'm absolutely comfortable about that. Just like I'm single now and it's still fun for me.

So now you're saying I'm broke and lonely or a faggot

You know for someone who wants a room full of guitars and is against LTR's - you sure are defending LTR Monogamy very strongly.

I'm not sure why, but I sense a lot of hostility, anger, maybe some other things about LTR's on your end. I'm not sure how bad your last breakup was, I'm only guessing.

Like I said, I've never attacked you, I'm not insulting you, I'm just trying to have an open discussion about this.

I like constructive criticism, it only makes you a better man.

Quote: (01-17-2016 02:52 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Like I said, I've never attacked you, I'm not insulting you, I'm just trying to have an open discussion about this.

I like constructive criticism, it only makes you a better man.

Cool, I think its clear where we diverge. I have pretty strong opinions as to why young men under the age of 40 should not be wasting their precious time and money on girlfriends, before they really find their path in life. All of the limiting factors of having a girlfriend only inhibit and hold back young men in life, from earning money and exploring the world. Once a man can stand on his own, then he can truly lead, and settle on what he truly wants in life. Truthfully at that age girlfriends are dream killers, so why not wait until yours come true. And in having a girlfriend, I see no point in it if you are continually with other women. It negates every positive that having a girlfriend could ever bring, and if you have a girl thats cool with this, more power to you, but I have never met one. The drama that can ensue is completely not worth it, and totally avoidable. And for breaking up properly, which is how our discussion started, who cares what she thinks of you when its over. You're not going to stay friends with her or her family. You will be complete history when she meets the next guy. And what do you care about her feelings if you are banging a bunch of other girls?

Quote: (01-17-2016 05:31 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

Quote: (01-17-2016 02:52 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Like I said, I've never attacked you, I'm not insulting you, I'm just trying to have an open discussion about this.

I like constructive criticism, it only makes you a better man.

Cool, I think its clear where we diverge. I have pretty strong opinions as to why young men under the age of 40 should not be wasting their precious time and money on girlfriends, before they really find their path in life. All of the limiting factors of having a girlfriend only inhibit and hold back young men in life, from earning money and exploring the world.

I agree with this - it's funny you bring that up, my 2nd to last GF when I was in my early-mid twenties hindered me from moving to an island with friends of mine. I had the money saved up, I had just graduated and had a window of opportunity.

Obviously I didn't take it, but did get the job I'm at now on the weekdays. Still doesn't matter, I crippled myself because I was in a relationship.

Quote:Quote:

Once a man can stand on his own, then he can truly lead, and settle on what he truly wants in life. Truthfully at that age girlfriends are dream killers, so why not wait until yours come true. And in having a girlfriend, I see no point in it if you are continually with other women. It negates every positive that having a girlfriend could ever bring, and if you have a girl thats cool with this, more power to you, but I have never met one.

I agree, they can be dream killers, that girls I brought up was. Probably one of major regrets in my life. Yup, which is why I dumped her and have now decided to step away from that, Kai, Onto, Jariel and a few others all made me realize that it isn't the lifestyle I need.

Any girl that says she's cool with this more than likely hopes you'll eventually be monogamous, or they're doing shit on the side also. It might be cool in the beginning but usually raises a raid flag in the long run.

Quote:Quote:

And for breaking up properly, which is how our discussion started, who cares what she thinks of you when its over. You're not going to stay friends with her or her family. You will be complete history when she meets the next guy. And what do you care about her feelings if you are banging a bunch of other girls?

I agree this is true, I don't care what she thinks, but I think a mature way to break up with her is just to be straight up and honest (depending on her temperament). After that conversation, nothing else matters.[/quote]

Moving forward I don't have any intentions of keeping a LTR around, this year is more inner game, body, and career focused.

Quote: (01-17-2016 05:48 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

I agree this is true, I don't care what she thinks, but I think a mature way to break up with her is just to be straight up and honest (depending on her temperament). After that conversation, nothing else matters.

I would totally agree, and as I sound cold hearted, this all comes from being a self-protectionist, I am looking to avoid anything thats going to hold me back. You're talking to a guy who was with 4 women, for 15 years, with a few sprinkled in between each. I used to be completely on the other end of the spectrum, I hunted LTR's. And I exaggerate my points to prove them, but I am not a judgmental guy, to each his own, truly I believe that. I only express whats worked for me, and from experience of whats not worked for me.

I’ve recently met a girl I’d like to turn into a LTR. So how to I let down the other girls I’ve been dating ( and some of them I’ve not banged yet). From a back up perspective I’d like to leave the door open in case my main girl goes tits up.

Option 1 – be honest – tell them I’ve met a girl I like and what to see where it goes.
Option 2 – I don’t want to date / relationship this year, concentrate on my business etc.
Option 3 – I might be moving for work, so don’t want anything serious
Option 4 – I see you more as a friend ; lets just be friends. ..

Or anything else which would be a better way to handle it.

Quote: (01-17-2016 06:21 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

Quote: (01-17-2016 05:48 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

I agree this is true, I don't care what she thinks, but I think a mature way to break up with her is just to be straight up and honest (depending on her temperament). After that conversation, nothing else matters.

I would totally agree, and as I sound cold hearted, this all comes from being a self-protectionist, I am looking to avoid anything thats going to hold me back. You're talking to a guy who was with 4 women, for 15 years, with a few sprinkled in between each. I used to be completely on the other end of the spectrum, I hunted LTR's. And I exaggerate my points to prove them, but I am not a judgmental guy, to each his own, truly I believe that. I only express whats worked for me, and from experience of whats not worked for me.

That's a fair statement man, I'm clearly headed towards that end, how far, only time will tell. I get what you're saying.

Quote: (01-17-2016 06:27 PM)cosworth Wrote:  

I’ve recently met a girl I’d like to turn into a LTR. So how to I let down the other girls I’ve been dating ( and some of them I’ve not banged yet). From a back up perspective I’d like to leave the door open in case my main girl goes tits up.

Option 1 – be honest – tell them I’ve met a girl I like and what to see where it goes.
Option 2 – I don’t want to date / relationship this year, concentrate on my business etc.
Option 3 – I might be moving for work, so don’t want anything serious
Option 4 – I see you more as a friend ; lets just be friends. ..

Or anything else which would be a better way to handle it.

Assuming all these girls live in your area - and thus there's a chance you'll run across them again - I'd argue that any option that involves lying about the chosen girl or you moving could cause unnecessary drama.

So I say option 1 (honest) and 4 (build your social circle).

"I met a girl but let's be friends. By the way, haaave you met Ted, my buddy?" (She may return the favor with one of her gfs if your main girl goes tits up).

That being said, obviously, don't pull the trigger until the chosen girl chooses you for an LTR.

Quote: (01-17-2016 05:10 AM)262 Wrote:  

Quote: (01-16-2016 04:36 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

How so? Flesh out your reasoning. Where am I wrong on that assessment? LTR stuff is popping up like crazy lately. As much as you guys ask for advice on them, some of us are dying to know what the itch is over. Where is the rationale coming from to drag women along for a ride for a long time, for no good reason, as if no new females will be available later in the year or next year to date?

I see alot of anti-abundance mindset going on lately and I really would like to know why that is.

My beef is with these two statements:

"I personally think 99% of RVF members are not qualified for LTRs."
"Almost none of you would know what to do with a unicorn if one fell in your lap."

These are broad strokes to be painting the forum membership with. Especially a membership dedicated to self-improvement.

Also, LTR does not equal anti-abundance mindset. In fact, I'd argue having a scarcity mindset sets you up for failure in anything, especially LTRs.

As for why LTR threads keep popping up, in my opinion, WIA hit the nail on the head on that one. Happens like clockwork every year as temperatures drop.

But I'd also add that non-LTR Game has been pretty much covered in the manosphere, kind of like how most travel destinations have been covered.

I worded that wrong. Had I reviewed it before clicking post, I probably would have backspaced out the 99% part and probably put many instead, but that is neither here nor there. I apologize for that. I was also wrong for the choice of words on not-qualified. I hope you guys would be willing to forgive this. Sometimes I need to pay more attention to certain details because I am a sports coach by nature but barking at guys is not always the best approach to anything.

I do not disagree with you there on scarcity mindset. However, unicorns are still unicorns and no one cannot appreciate or evaluate what they cannot identify either.

The biggest problem I have with LTR game is that it does not necessarily equal quality nor accomplishes any particular goal. In my experience, all it does is delay the inevitable and sows seeds of foment with women, that become increasingly agitated that you are not willing to pull a trigger on them for permanent status. Women are far more status sensitive than men are. Social proof and acknowledgement is their ultimate goal not expensive things. An LTR is leaving them hanging. The longer it goes on, the worse. One reason I don't think LTRs are good for guys like RVF members is because they should all it will do is hamper your game. It really is not a dry run practice exercise in being married. Being legit married and shacking up are just oceans apart different. I have been married twice and LTR twice. It took me a while, but I realized it is not going help you learn much more than you need to know. You will never know everything, you want to know about a person in 1-2 years, but you can learn everything you need to know alot faster than that.

LTRs with old-n-broken/old maid/old women may be somewhat easier to obtain and create, but the endgame result is still roughly the same. Your game won't improve from running any of them and there is a risk of becoming lazier in your overall game. I was ready to give my now wife a ring within the first 6 months of dating her. Maybe the first 2 I could have. When you see true quality or unicorns, you cannot just hunker down into a LTR with no end goal. Eventually you will lose her over a litany of possible reasons. All women change, but certain things accelerate those changes. Internal scorn and bitterness affect their psyche on a subconcious level. It all numbs them down a bit and the more limbo you put down on it, the worse it gets.

Like that dude in that thread I linked believed his girl that she did not want/mind marriage all those years, ended up wanting just that, women are not to be believed when they say shit like that. Women lie. Even worse, they have no idea what they want. A fully cognizant player/student of the game, should know exactly what she is wanting or looking for. That is our edge. If you want to manipulate her for LTR stuff at her detriment and drop her like a sack of potatoes, that would be on you as the player/student. Just don't feel moist about letting her go because you knew what you were doing from the beginning. If anything this is a case of why everything should be tentative, vague, spontaneous, etc. with any woman you interact with so that it is more efficient to move on to the next lady that might be the unicorn or just the next catch. Whatever your goals are...

Quote: (01-23-2016 02:22 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

I worded that wrong. Had I reviewed it before clicking post, I probably would have backspaced out the 99% part and probably put many instead, but that is neither here nor there. I apologize for that. I was also wrong for the choice of words on not-qualified. I hope you guys would be willing to forgive this. Sometimes I need to pay more attention to certain details because I am a sports coach by nature but barking at guys is not always the best approach to anything.

I would not back down from your original statement so much. Perhaps not 99% of us here, but if you used the word "most" instead, it would ring much truer to me.

Maintaining a LTR, especially marriage, is at least 100x harder than simply gaming a woman to bed. There really is no comparison. The latter is mind-numbingly trivial compared to the day-in-day-out effort and mindfulness required to go the distance in a LTR or marriage.

I mean, how many successful players have we seen get laid left and right, then once he gets tired of it, he get hitched to a seemingly decent woman, only to have his LTR go down in flames? We see it all the time.

Not that I'm a successful player myself - far from it - but it also happened to me. It was a disaster. It left me with the visceral feeling that I am nowhere near qualified to maintain a LTR than I need to be, before I get in the next serious one. Neither are most of us here, as far as I'm seeing because most effort we (collectively) put into women are just getting that first bang.

But what about AFTER the first bang?

And how do we screen for a so-called unicorn for a long lasting LTR?

We did have some good threads on finding marriage material over the past year, but there are so many perspectives from different men in different cultures that we seem to be all over the place on this. And we're not even discussing how to keep an LTR together year after year... the work, our game, our inner strength, and the fortitude required to do exactly that.

While I wouldn't argue they are unicorns, I did meet a few wonderful women in the past year, yet I've been keeping them at arms length because I'm not ready to go down that rabbit hole. Why?

Because I haven't yet learned enough about myself, and what principles to guide my life with.

I think "not ready" is a better term to apply to our forum membership than "not qualified". Most of us here are simply not ready.

Quote: (01-24-2016 10:51 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Quote: (01-23-2016 02:22 PM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

I worded that wrong. Had I reviewed it before clicking post, I probably would have backspaced out the 99% part and probably put many instead, but that is neither here nor there. I apologize for that. I was also wrong for the choice of words on not-qualified. I hope you guys would be willing to forgive this. Sometimes I need to pay more attention to certain details because I am a sports coach by nature but barking at guys is not always the best approach to anything.

I would not back down from your original statement so much. Perhaps not 99% of us here, but if you used the word "most" instead, it would ring much truer to me.

Maintaining a LTR, especially marriage, is at least 100x harder than simply gaming a woman to bed. There really is no comparison. The latter is mind-numbingly trivial compared to the day-in-day-out effort and mindfulness required to go the distance in a LTR or marriage.

I mean, how many successful players have we seen get laid left and right, then once he gets tired of it, he get hitched to a seemingly decent woman, only to have his LTR go down in flames? We see it all the time.

Not that I'm a successful player myself - far from it - but it also happened to me. It was a disaster. It left me with the visceral feeling that I am nowhere near qualified to maintain a LTR than I need to be, before I get in the next serious one. Neither are most of us here, as far as I'm seeing because most effort we (collectively) put into women are just getting that first bang.

But what about AFTER the first bang?

And how do we screen for a so-called unicorn for a long lasting LTR?

We did have some good threads on finding marriage material over the past year, but there are so many perspectives from different men in different cultures that we seem to be all over the place on this. And we're not even discussing how to keep an LTR together year after year... the work, our game, our inner strength, and the fortitude required to do exactly that.

While I wouldn't argue they are unicorns, I did meet a few wonderful women in the past year, yet I've been keeping them at arms length because I'm not ready to go down that rabbit hole. Why?

Because I haven't yet learned enough about myself, and what principles to guide my life with.

I think "not ready" is a better term to apply to our forum membership than "not qualified". Most of us here are simply not ready.

I would argue it isn't so much "harder" but that a successful player has to have the right mindset and environment for a LTR to work. Going from banging random chicks all the the time to only one with maybe some side action is a rapid change in mindset and lifestyle. Our natural extincts encourage us to bang as many women as possible. To become exclusive with only one woman, there has to be a very strong incentive; which is children in the vast majority of cases. A lot guys get into LTRs because they vibe well with a woman; not because she has displayed "Mother of My Children" (MoMC) attributes that are worth investigating and evaluating more thoroughly. A good vibe alone shouldn't be the sole reason to LTR a chick but a lot guys do it anyway for a variety of reasons.

LTRs with a few rare exceptions offer no value to men unless the woman has "Mother of My Children" credentials. If a man gets into a LTR with a woman and doesn't have children in mind (as in, is constantly evaluating a woman fitness to bear his children), its a waste of energy and time. I understand there are those rare couples who are like best friends but both desire no children and make things work but they are the exception. The vast majority of women desire children. And the one's who don't today generally change their tune eventually. Therefore as a guy, you should drop an LTR or potential LTR as soon as you see something disqualifying as a MoMC candidate.

Beyond a woman bearing your children, women exhaust most of their value to me within a few months and generally demand more as the relationship progresses but offer nothing in return. Within a few months, the novelty of banging a particular chick will wear off and if you have some game experience, you will have her personality largely figured out. If you have a solid personal understanding of what basic qualities a MoMC candidate should possess (non-feminist, good cook, submissive, young, good family/upbringing, etc), it's fairly straight-forward to DQ a chick from LTR status and place in the fuckbuddy bucket.

But if you do get into an LTR with a MoMC candidate, it really isn't that difficult to maintain because the foundation is strong. Avoid beta-backsliding, stay fit, provide, and make sure she doesn't get too comfortable (mild dread game here and there will do the trick). Eventually, she will have kids and that will occupy most of her time. Because you chose a family-oriented woman, she should derive enormous pleasure from taking care of her man and children. If she doesn't, you picked the wrong woman and missed a major red flag early in the dating process.

In the anglosphere, the most difficult thing about LTRs is finding LTR quality women in a cultural and legal environment that is extraordinarily anti-family, anti-male, and anti-sole provider. If I choose to go down the family route, I will honestly probably have to leave the country to find an acceptable environment and sizable enough pool of potential women to start a family with.

"But youre like a sister to me" works