Quote: (04-25-2019 06:54 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:
Quote: (04-25-2019 06:13 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:
Quote: (04-25-2019 03:37 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:
...
One of the biggest fallacies in Christianity is that Satan rules in hell. John Milton even gets it wrong in "Paradise Lost." God is everywhere -- even in hell. God rules everywhere -- even in hell.
...
There's also plenty of Biblical text to indicate that no one goes to either Heaven or hell upon death. Rather - they simply enter a 'spiritual sleep state', until the Day Of Judgement.
IE - Rest In Peace.
Then upon the Day Of Judgement, God opens 'the books' to gauge a person's life. Those that are righteous enter into New Jerusalem for eternity.
Those that are found wanting are disintergrated spiritually in the Lake Of Fire. Consumed wholesale with no eternal punishment.
Then there may be those who are left outside of New Jerusalem to live in strife...?
Back to the 'spiritual sleep state' thing.
It would be a touch odd to ascend to Heaven (paradise); as in you "made it". Only then to be judged on the Day Of Judgement later.
If you made it, why the need to be judged again?
I'm still learning more about this myself. I am unsure of if, upon death, that we all sleep until judgement day or if we do enter a holding area.
Some people believe that we will go straight up to heaven, I'm unsure about that and I think that it might be reserved for special circumstances like Jesus and Enoch where they were literally carried up to heaven.
As for the "holding area" the bible talks about Heaven and Hell, but it also talks about paradise and hades.
I've read some things where people believe that there is a mini-heaven called paradise, or the bosom of Abraham where the saved await judgement day and where the damned endure hades, while the neutral just sleep.
I am not sure personally but would be just fine with resting until judgement day. It also jives with the idea of ghosts not being able to rest. They for some reason can't enter sleep to await judgement.
The idea of purgatory, hades and abrahams' bosom almost seems to me like a comfort to people who want an immediate reward or retribution. Like the idea of a murderer just sleeping until judgement doesn't seem like enough justice to some. Similarly some people want to believe in this idea that their ancestors are watching them from heaven. I don't think they are, they only watchers being the prophets and Jesus there already.
These are all just opinions and I don't have enough biblical chops to argue for any one.
About heaven. No one knows anything, really.
We like to speculate, but I think God has left this purposely vague to get us to focus on how we live this life.
And it is fun to speculate. I have listened to a whole bunch of near death experiences, and these only provide answers in a limited way. It seems each experience is tailored specifically to the person having it and there is no consistent message for every single person to take home.
I also have recently been reading "Heaven and Hell" by Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772) a Lutheran (of all things) mystic who said the nature of heaven was revealed to him by God.
An interesting aspect of his description is that he says everyone comes to heaven with a different conception, some believing they will hang out with dead relatives, others believing it will be a big party, others believing they will get to meet and talk to all the saints.
He says that what actually happens is that each person gets to live out their own conception of heaven till they get tired of it and ask what they are missing, and what everyone comes to understand is that the ultimate nature of heaven is usefulness.
Sounds pretty damn deep to me.
If you are interested in this, just search the title and his name. There are free PDFs out there.
Abraham's bosom is a concept designed purely to make teenagers crack up in church and get in trouble.
“The greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents.”
Carl Jung