[debeguiled]

(04-25-2019 06:54 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

(04-25-2019 06:13 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

(04-25-2019 03:37 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

...
One of the biggest fallacies in Christianity is that Satan rules in hell. John Milton even gets it wrong in "Paradise Lost." God is everywhere -- even in hell. God rules everywhere -- even in hell.
...

There's also plenty of Biblical text to indicate that no one goes to either Heaven or hell upon death. Rather - they simply enter a 'spiritual sleep state', until the Day Of Judgement.
IE - Rest In Peace.

Then upon the Day Of Judgement, God opens 'the books' to gauge a person's life. Those that are righteous enter into New Jerusalem for eternity.
Those that are found wanting are disintergrated spiritually in the Lake Of Fire. Consumed wholesale with no eternal punishment.
Then there may be those who are left outside of New Jerusalem to live in strife...?

Back to the 'spiritual sleep state' thing.
It would be a touch odd to ascend to Heaven (paradise); as in you "made it". Only then to be judged on the Day Of Judgement later.
If you made it, why the need to be judged again?

I'm still learning more about this myself. I am unsure of if, upon death, that we all sleep until judgement day or if we do enter a holding area.

Some people believe that we will go straight up to heaven, I'm unsure about that and I think that it might be reserved for special circumstances like Jesus and Enoch where they were literally carried up to heaven.

As for the "holding area" the bible talks about Heaven and Hell, but it also talks about paradise and hades.

I've read some things where people believe that there is a mini-heaven called paradise, or the bosom of Abraham where the saved await judgement day and where the damned endure hades, while the neutral just sleep.

I am not sure personally but would be just fine with resting until judgement day. It also jives with the idea of ghosts not being able to rest. They for some reason can't enter sleep to await judgement.

The idea of purgatory, hades and abrahams' bosom almost seems to me like a comfort to people who want an immediate reward or retribution. Like the idea of a murderer just sleeping until judgement doesn't seem like enough justice to some. Similarly some people want to believe in this idea that their ancestors are watching them from heaven. I don't think they are, they only watchers being the prophets and Jesus there already.

These are all just opinions and I don't have enough biblical chops to argue for any one.

About heaven. No one knows anything, really.

We like to speculate, but I think God has left this purposely vague to get us to focus on how we live this life.

And it is fun to speculate. I have listened to a whole bunch of near death experiences, and these only provide answers in a limited way. It seems each experience is tailored specifically to the person having it and there is no consistent message for every single person to take home.

I also have recently been reading "Heaven and Hell" by Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772) a Lutheran (of all things) mystic who said the nature of heaven was revealed to him by God.

An interesting aspect of his description is that he says everyone comes to heaven with a different conception, some believing they will hang out with dead relatives, others believing it will be a big party, others believing they will get to meet and talk to all the saints.

He says that what actually happens is that each person gets to live out their own conception of heaven till they get tired of it and ask what they are missing, and what everyone comes to understand is that the ultimate nature of heaven is usefulness.

Sounds pretty damn deep to me.

If you are interested in this, just search the title and his name. There are free PDFs out there.

Abraham's bosom is a concept designed purely to make teenagers crack up in church and get in trouble.

[sterling_archer]

(04-26-2019 12:23 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

I also have recently been reading "Heaven and Hell" by Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772) a Lutheran (of all things) mystic who said the nature of heaven was revealed to him by God.

An interesting aspect of his description is that he says everyone comes to heaven with a different conception, some believing they will hang out with dead relatives, others believing it will be a big party, others believing they will get to meet and talk to all the saints.

He says that what actually happens is that each person gets to live out their own conception of heaven till they get tired of it and ask what they are missing, and what everyone comes to understand is that the ultimate nature of heaven is usefulness.

Sounds pretty damn deep to me.

If you are interested in this, just search the title and his name. There are free PDFs out there.

Abraham's bosom is a concept designed purely to make teenagers crack up in church and get in trouble.

His notion of Heaven is very similar to eastern beliefs. Is it know that he traveled to East during his life?

If not and he really got information by some kind of vision (that he interpreted as being from God), this is very interesting.
There are many realms which consist afterlife and all of them could be described as having property to "change" depending of person and whole experience is actually very similar to being in a permanent lucid dream.

[Tail Gunner]

All of the discussion regarding the nature of angels, the end times, heaven, and hell, is simply mental masturbation. Hell is a bad place. If it exists, you do not want to go there. What more do you really need to know?

The only pertinent question is whether any of this is true. Throughout history certain charismatic leaders have arisen. Just in our lifetime, we have seen Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate, and may others. All those movements died. What made Christianity different? What motivated the Apostles to spend their entire lives preaching the Gospel -- knowing that they would surely die (and they all did, except possibly for John)?

If you read the Bible carefully, you will see that the motivator was not only a message of hope, love, and eternal life -- but all the many miracles that numerous people actually witnessed. Their was no doubt in their minds that not only Jesus himself, but that also the Apostles, possessed the power of God. Just to cite a single example:

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Matthew 27:51-53 King James Version (KJV)

So, many people actually saw the dead walking the streets of Jerusalem through the power of Jesus Christ. This, and many other miracles, explains the motivation of the Apostles and of those who flocked to them -- and why their message has survived for thousands of years.

[debeguiled]

So is mental masturbation as bad a sin as the hands on variety?

If so, I am in trouble.

[debeguiled]

From Jay Dyer tweet:

[CynicalContrarian]

^
Either way.
I don't recall much of anything about Spring, rabbits nor eggs in the Bible.

[Tail Gunner]

(04-26-2019 07:22 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

^
Either way.
I don't recall much of anything about Spring, rabbits nor eggs in the Bible.

That really does not matter. What really matters is that you think that you are right and that it serves your purpose. Just ask Nancy Pelosi:

Quote:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who is Catholic, loves to quote her favorite passage from the Bible. She's been doing it for more than a decade, and she did so most recently when she addressed Christian educators at the end of January. But there's just one problem: the verse doesn't exist.

Years ago, to support a push for global warming legislation, she said in an Earth Day press release: "The Bible tells us in the Old Testament, 'To minister to the needs of God's creation is an act of worship. To ignore those needs is to dishonor the God who made us.'"

Pelosi has quoted the false passage at least 11 times from the House floor since 2002, according to the Congressional Record.

Slate reported that she has used it to recognize genocide in Darfur, support the Endangered Species Act, and twice to honor Catholic schools. She was publicly criticized in 2008 but seems to acknowledge that, of the thousands of Bible verses to choose from, she can't pinpoint exactly where it is.

“I can’t find it in the Bible but I quote it all the time, and I keep reading and reading the Bible. I know it is there someplace," Pelosi told the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities conference last Wednesday. “It’s supposed to be in Isaiah, but I heard a bishop say to minister to the needs of God’s creation is an act of worship. To ignore those needs is to dishonor the God who made us.” [My Own Note: More likely, she heard it from Satan whispering in her ear.]

“It’s in there somewhere in some words or another, but certainly the spirit of it is there,” Pelosi said. “And that we all have a responsibility to act upon our beliefs and the dignity and worth of every person.”

While she's used the verse for many different causes, last week she pivoted to comprehensive immigration reform.

Claude Mariottini, a professor of Old Testament at Northern Baptist Theological Seminary called it "fictional," saying: "It is not in the Bible. There is nothing that even approximates that."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/speaker...ible-verse


I posted this news article with some trepidation, because the purpose of this thread is to enable men to bring themselves closer to God. Upon reflection, however, one of the ways in which men can bring themselves closer to God is to avoid the ungodly and the deceitful. "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)

[Dr. Howard]

(04-26-2019 03:15 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

From Jay Dyer tweet:

Its because Easter comes from the story of Semiramis, wife of Nimrod, the old testament. Googling Nimrod Semiramis and Tammuz makes for interesting reading.

I personally like the theory that when the tower of Babel was destroyed, man was scattered to distant places with new languages. They did however all retain the deification of Semiramis. It doesn't say that she was killed in Babel. The moon goddess religion then takes on slightly different forms over time, with it having similarities to pagan/witch beliefs, black mary catholicism, egyptian religion.

Some other conspiracy theory reading puts the moon goddess religion up there as the competitor with the luciferians for control of the earth. ie. the spirit cookers vs. the masons vs. bankers.

[trickster]

How do we reconcile God and Heaven and Hell with the possibility (I won’t say probability) that there could be many other planets and galaxies with sentient life forms? Do God’s teaching apply to these possible living creatures who could be more advanced than us?

[debeguiled]

(04-27-2019 07:52 AM)trickster Wrote:  

How do we reconcile God and Heaven and Hell with the possibility (I won’t say probability) that there could be many other planets and galaxies with sentient life forms? Do God’s teaching apply to these possible living creatures who could be more advanced than us?

From what I have experienced, people aren't capable of sharing sidewalks, respecting traffic rules, or even pulling on a dog's leash to let someone else walk by.

Once we get that stuff fixed, we may be given information about other planets.

[Feyoder]

(04-27-2019 07:52 AM)trickster Wrote:  

How do we reconcile God and Heaven and Hell with the possibility (I won’t say probability) that there could be many other planets and galaxies with sentient life forms? Do God’s teaching apply to these possible living creatures who could be more advanced than us?

Personally I don't see how even thinking about this purely theoretical possibility is productive (especially considering there's no real evidence).

It's a physical rather than a theological area too. However, for me, personally, the physical world reaffirms my belief (no matter its vastness). When you believe (I didn't always) it's extremely satisfying to see evidence of order, humor and creativity in creation.

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

(04-26-2019 07:22 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

^
Either way.
I don't recall much of anything about Spring, rabbits nor eggs in the Bible.

Yeah, it's not exactly a secret that early Christianity picked up a lot of influence from pagan traditions, some of which can be seen in how we celebrate Easter and especially Christmas. Christ likely wasn't even born in December, more likely May/June. But those discrepancies are irrelevant in the big picture, and don't change the underlying meaning of those holy days.

[JStrongbow]

So glad to hear about the 'God pill' from you Kingmaker!!!

Myself, I have an Protestant upbringing (CRC).... Looking at the Catholic doctrine for some more wisdom about The Faith'.... Read a compelling leaflet handed out near 1 of my current towns main public squares challenging 'Sola Scriptura'... We shall see....

Cheers again!!![/code]

[Foolsgo1d]

(04-27-2019 12:18 PM)Feyoder Wrote:  

(04-27-2019 07:52 AM)trickster Wrote:  

How do we reconcile God and Heaven and Hell with the possibility (I won’t say probability) that there could be many other planets and galaxies with sentient life forms? Do God’s teaching apply to these possible living creatures who could be more advanced than us?

Personally I don't see how even thinking about this purely theoretical possibility is productive (especially considering there's no real evidence).

It's a physical rather than a theological area too. However, for me, personally, the physical world reaffirms my belief (no matter its vastness). When you believe (I didn't always) it's extremely satisfying to see evidence of order, humor and creativity in creation.

So when they find organisms on the many moons in our solar systems under the ice living around vents will you say theres no evidence of aliens?

To say life does not exist outside of Earth because we have an interpretation of God in some form does not mean it isn't there.

[AnonymousBosch]

(04-26-2019 03:15 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

From Jay Dyer tweet:

Absolute garbage.

Easter Week in Latin = In Albis, meaning the plural of 'Dawn'.
The Season in Old High German = 'Eostarum', meaning 'Dawn'.
The Season in Modern German / English = 'Easter'.

The first association of Easter with Bunnies and Eggs came from Protestants, becoming widespread in the 19th century. It's almost like they wanted to obscure the true meaning of the season.

[infowarrior1]

(04-28-2019 04:03 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(04-26-2019 03:15 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

From Jay Dyer tweet:

Absolute garbage.

Easter Week in Latin = In Albis, meaning the plural of 'Dawn'.
The Season in Old High German = 'Eostarum', meaning 'Dawn'.
The Season in Modern German / English = 'Easter'.

The first association of Easter with Bunnies and Eggs came from Protestants, becoming widespread in the 19th century. It's almost like they wanted to obscure the true meaning of the season.

Perhaps. But we will never know.

[Tail Gunner]

(04-28-2019 04:03 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

The first association of Easter with Bunnies and Eggs came from Protestants, becoming widespread in the 19th century. It's almost like they wanted to obscure the true meaning of the season.

Right, the same people responsible for bringing the Bible to the masses (at the risk of their own lives) wanted to obscure the Bible's meaning. Although no one knows for sure, it was probably a cute tradition that was taken over by commercial interests. After all, if a bunny could deliver eggs (after everyone abstained from eggs during Lent), then the bunny certainly could deliver a great deal of expensive chocolate and candy. It is similar to what happened with Santa Claus and Christmas, which turned a kindly Saint into a commercial shill. Now, if you meant Protestant business owners with a profit-motive, I could probably agree -- although I would disagree with their trying to obscure the true meaning of the season. Greed has many unintended side-effects.

Quote:

According to some sources, the Easter bunny first arrived in America in the 1700s with German immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania and transported their tradition of an egg-laying hare called “Osterhase” or “Oschter Haws.” Their children made nests in which this creature could lay its colored eggs. Eventually, the custom spread across the U.S. and the fabled rabbit’s Easter morning deliveries expanded to include chocolate and other types of candy and gifts, while decorated baskets replaced nests.

http://time.com/3767518/easter-bunny-origins-history/

[Aurini]

(04-28-2019 11:21 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 04:03 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

The first association of Easter with Bunnies and Eggs came from Protestants, becoming widespread in the 19th century. It's almost like they wanted to obscure the true meaning of the season.

Right, the same people responsible for bringing the Bible to the masses (at the risk of their own lives) wanted to obscure the Bible's meaning. Although no one knows for sure, it was probably a cute tradition that was taken over by commercial interests. After all, if a bunny could deliver eggs (after everyone abstained from eggs during Lent), then the bunny certainly could deliver a great deal of expensive chocolate and candy. It is similar to what happened with Santa Claus and Christmas, which turned a kindly Saint into a commercial shill.

Quote:

According to some sources, the Easter bunny first arrived in America in the 1700s with German immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania and transported their tradition of an egg-laying hare called “Osterhase” or “Oschter Haws.” Their children made nests in which this creature could lay its colored eggs. Eventually, the custom spread across the U.S. and the fabled rabbit’s Easter morning deliveries expanded to include chocolate and other types of candy and gifts, while decorated baskets replaced nests.

http://time.com/3767518/easter-bunny-origins-history/

Do you mean the Bible with the Jewish version of the old testament that cut out parts about Christ and prayer? That was distributed all over the continent by Jews? Which was used to foment rebellion and encourage Protestants to kill Christians? The group that fell for the Scofield Bible (also made by Jews) and now worship Israel? That group of 'Bible printers'?

*sigh* Forgive my terseness, but I haven't had my morning coffee yet. Protestants have been tearing apart Christendom for 400 years, and Jewish rule of our society is a direct product of that.

[trickster]

^^ The Jew is a clever fellow of that no one disputes. No one denies the Jew has a higher iq than the white man. But are we giving the jew his proper respect? Why aren’t we demanding that this clever fellow divulge all his secrets? A small percentage of people have ruled society for hundreds of years. Can he he write a data sheet?

[debeguiled]

(04-28-2019 10:16 AM)infowarrior1 Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 04:03 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(04-26-2019 03:15 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  

From Jay Dyer tweet:

Absolute garbage.

Easter Week in Latin = In Albis, meaning the plural of 'Dawn'.
The Season in Old High German = 'Eostarum', meaning 'Dawn'.
The Season in Modern German / English = 'Easter'.

The first association of Easter with Bunnies and Eggs came from Protestants, becoming widespread in the 19th century. It's almost like they wanted to obscure the true meaning of the season.

Perhaps. But we will never know.

When dealing with a spiritual issue or communication, sometimes you can have your facts absolutely correct, and still be grievously wrong.

[Tail Gunner]

(04-28-2019 11:25 AM)Aurini Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 11:21 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 04:03 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

The first association of Easter with Bunnies and Eggs came from Protestants, becoming widespread in the 19th century. It's almost like they wanted to obscure the true meaning of the season.

Right, the same people responsible for bringing the Bible to the masses (at the risk of their own lives) wanted to obscure the Bible's meaning. Although no one knows for sure, it was probably a cute tradition that was taken over by commercial interests. After all, if a bunny could deliver eggs (after everyone abstained from eggs during Lent), then the bunny certainly could deliver a great deal of expensive chocolate and candy. It is similar to what happened with Santa Claus and Christmas, which turned a kindly Saint into a commercial shill.

Quote:

According to some sources, the Easter bunny first arrived in America in the 1700s with German immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania and transported their tradition of an egg-laying hare called “Osterhase” or “Oschter Haws.” Their children made nests in which this creature could lay its colored eggs. Eventually, the custom spread across the U.S. and the fabled rabbit’s Easter morning deliveries expanded to include chocolate and other types of candy and gifts, while decorated baskets replaced nests.

http://time.com/3767518/easter-bunny-origins-history/

Do you mean the Bible with the Jewish version of the old testament that cut out parts about Christ and prayer? That was distributed all over the continent by Jews? Which was used to foment rebellion and encourage Protestants to kill Christians? The group that fell for the Scofield Bible (also made by Jews) and now worship Israel? That group of 'Bible printers'?

*sigh* Forgive my terseness, but I haven't had my morning coffee yet. Protestants have been tearing apart Christendom for 400 years, and Jewish rule of our society is a direct product of that.

I think that an omnipotent God who wishes to get His message to mankind is just a bit smarter than Jews, Protestants, Catholics -- or anyone else who stands in His way.

Not only that, but the Bible clearly shows that God uses evil forces to do His will. When Israel misbehaved, God repeatedly used the forces of foreign lands to punish Israel and to get its people to repent. At the end of the day (after each occurrence), God punished Israel and its "stiff-necked people" as well as the evil forces that He used to punish Israel.

As another non-biblical example, when the Romans and Jews crucified Christ, God used the Romans to destroy the temple, to sack and destroy Jerusalem, and to disperse the Jews. In the fullness of time, He also destroyed the Romans as a people (the Italians are not Romans; not even close).

So, an omnipotent God who wishes to get His message to mankind will do so (if that is His will) -- and anyone exercising their free will to get in His way (whether Jews, Protestants, Catholics, or otherwise) will eventually reap a just punishment.

If God wanted a united Catholic Christendom, He would have assisted the multiple attempts by Philip II of Spain to conquer England. Most people are not aware of the later attempt (during 1598), which was better planned and organized than the famous one of 1588 -- but was also foiled by a fierce storm that scattered the Spanish ships and sank many of them. Multiple attempts; multiple massive storms; God's Will manifested.

[Aurini]

(04-28-2019 01:36 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 11:25 AM)Aurini Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 11:21 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 04:03 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

The first association of Easter with Bunnies and Eggs came from Protestants, becoming widespread in the 19th century. It's almost like they wanted to obscure the true meaning of the season.

Right, the same people responsible for bringing the Bible to the masses (at the risk of their own lives) wanted to obscure the Bible's meaning. Although no one knows for sure, it was probably a cute tradition that was taken over by commercial interests. After all, if a bunny could deliver eggs (after everyone abstained from eggs during Lent), then the bunny certainly could deliver a great deal of expensive chocolate and candy. It is similar to what happened with Santa Claus and Christmas, which turned a kindly Saint into a commercial shill.

Quote:

According to some sources, the Easter bunny first arrived in America in the 1700s with German immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania and transported their tradition of an egg-laying hare called “Osterhase” or “Oschter Haws.” Their children made nests in which this creature could lay its colored eggs. Eventually, the custom spread across the U.S. and the fabled rabbit’s Easter morning deliveries expanded to include chocolate and other types of candy and gifts, while decorated baskets replaced nests.

http://time.com/3767518/easter-bunny-origins-history/

Do you mean the Bible with the Jewish version of the old testament that cut out parts about Christ and prayer? That was distributed all over the continent by Jews? Which was used to foment rebellion and encourage Protestants to kill Christians? The group that fell for the Scofield Bible (also made by Jews) and now worship Israel? That group of 'Bible printers'?

*sigh* Forgive my terseness, but I haven't had my morning coffee yet. Protestants have been tearing apart Christendom for 400 years, and Jewish rule of our society is a direct product of that.

I think that an omnipotent God who wishes to get His message to mankind is just a bit smarter than Jews, Protestants, Catholics -- or anyone else who stands in His way.

Not only that, but the Bible clearly shows that God uses evil forces to do His will. When Israel misbehaved, God repeatedly used the forces of foreign lands to punish Israel and to get its people to repent. At the end of the day (after each occurrence), God punished Israel and its "stiff-necked people" as well as the evil forces that He used to punish Israel.

As another non-biblical example, when the Romans and Jews crucified Christ, God used the Romans to destroy the temple, to sack and destroy Jerusalem, and to disperse the Jews. In the fullness of time, He also destroyed the Romans as a people (the Italians are not Romans; not even close).

So, an omnipotent God who wishes to get His message to mankind will do so (if that is His will) -- and anyone exercising their free will to get in His way (whether Jews, Protestants, Catholics, or otherwise) will eventually reap a just punishment.

Your post leads nowhere. Yes, God is allowing Islam to invade our lands because we've become unrighteous. Yes, God allowed Communism to take over Russia because we ignored Fatima. Yes, God allowed Martin Luther his heresies because the Catholic Church had become corrupt. What's your point? Shrug our shoulders, and accommodate the evil in our midst?

[Tail Gunner]

(04-28-2019 01:55 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 01:36 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 11:25 AM)Aurini Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 11:21 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(04-28-2019 04:03 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

The first association of Easter with Bunnies and Eggs came from Protestants, becoming widespread in the 19th century. It's almost like they wanted to obscure the true meaning of the season.

Right, the same people responsible for bringing the Bible to the masses (at the risk of their own lives) wanted to obscure the Bible's meaning. Although no one knows for sure, it was probably a cute tradition that was taken over by commercial interests. After all, if a bunny could deliver eggs (after everyone abstained from eggs during Lent), then the bunny certainly could deliver a great deal of expensive chocolate and candy. It is similar to what happened with Santa Claus and Christmas, which turned a kindly Saint into a commercial shill.

Quote:

According to some sources, the Easter bunny first arrived in America in the 1700s with German immigrants who settled in Pennsylvania and transported their tradition of an egg-laying hare called “Osterhase” or “Oschter Haws.” Their children made nests in which this creature could lay its colored eggs. Eventually, the custom spread across the U.S. and the fabled rabbit’s Easter morning deliveries expanded to include chocolate and other types of candy and gifts, while decorated baskets replaced nests.

http://time.com/3767518/easter-bunny-origins-history/

Do you mean the Bible with the Jewish version of the old testament that cut out parts about Christ and prayer? That was distributed all over the continent by Jews? Which was used to foment rebellion and encourage Protestants to kill Christians? The group that fell for the Scofield Bible (also made by Jews) and now worship Israel? That group of 'Bible printers'?

*sigh* Forgive my terseness, but I haven't had my morning coffee yet. Protestants have been tearing apart Christendom for 400 years, and Jewish rule of our society is a direct product of that.

I think that an omnipotent God who wishes to get His message to mankind is just a bit smarter than Jews, Protestants, Catholics -- or anyone else who stands in His way.

Not only that, but the Bible clearly shows that God uses evil forces to do His will. When Israel misbehaved, God repeatedly used the forces of foreign lands to punish Israel and to get its people to repent. At the end of the day (after each occurrence), God punished Israel and its "stiff-necked people" as well as the evil forces that He used to punish Israel.

As another non-biblical example, when the Romans and Jews crucified Christ, God used the Romans to destroy the temple, to sack and destroy Jerusalem, and to disperse the Jews. In the fullness of time, He also destroyed the Romans as a people (the Italians are not Romans; not even close).

So, an omnipotent God who wishes to get His message to mankind will do so (if that is His will) -- and anyone exercising their free will to get in His way (whether Jews, Protestants, Catholics, or otherwise) will eventually reap a just punishment.

Your post leads nowhere. Yes, God is allowing Islam to invade our lands because we've become unrighteous. Yes, God allowed Communism to take over Russia because we ignored Fatima. Yes, God allowed Martin Luther his heresies because the Catholic Church had become corrupt. What's your point? Shrug our shoulders, and accommodate the evil in our midst?

Actually, the exact opposite. You are inflaming the Catholic/Protestant division and splitting Christian brothers ("Protestants have been tearing apart Christendom for 400 years"). Why? All Christians must band together to salvage what is left of Western Civilization.

[Aurini]

(04-28-2019 02:01 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

Actually, the exact opposite. You are inflaming the Catholic/Protestant division and splitting Christian brothers ("Protestants have been tearing apart Christendom for 400 years"). Why? All Christians must band together to salvage what is left of Western Civilization.

*Sigh* Come back to me in a year after you try finding an honourable Protestant.

There are a few of them out there - I certainly don't reject a man based on his upbringing - but "Once saved always saved" and "Faith not Works" are recipes for demonic behaviour. Few of them know the Father, and they'll hate you for your faith.

[DeadlyReed]

Ahhh, the nice thing about not being an adherent to a denomination or religion is that I know everyone is a moment away from seeing me as a mortal enemy and isn't as holy as they would like to believe.