[tenderman100]

(10-13-2011 10:11 AM)Thorfinnsson Wrote:  

The Tea Party started out like OWS--a formless mob with the vague idea that something is very, very wrong with America. And being a formless mob is fine--that is how all mass movements start. But just as OWS is now degenerating into a panopoly of silly leftist demands, the Tea Party has been hijacked by beltway Republicans to use as a vehicle to push the same failed beltway Republican policies of the past generation.

You know, you sound like a smart guy, and I bet you are, and then you say stuff like this where you reveal that you don't know the facts.

Read this:

GOP leadership faces possible tea party revolt in 2012
http://dailycaller.com/2011/09/21/gop-le...t-in-2012/

Here's what a Tea Party meeting looks like; not a beltway Republican in the bunch.
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/127229/

Here's what the true Tea Party does when an actual Beltway Republican acts like an asshole:

Rep. Steve Chabot Criticized By Tea Party Activists For Seizing Cameras From Democrats At Town Halls
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/25...36465.html

Read how the Virginia Tea Party organization fought a planning commission issuance of search warrants for suspected “code violations.”
http://redstatevirginia.com/2011/07/decl...lynchburg/

Read how the Tea Party is going after the Beltway's most Beltwayian Senator...Orrin Hatch
Utah Tea Party Targets Orrin Hatch
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washing...rrin-hatch

I could give you dozens of other examples, but you get the idea. I think.

So yeah, you were right about folks uttering stuff that's not true. That's why when that happens, like in your unsupportable assertion, someone needs to get up and present the fucking facts.

[speakeasy]

(10-13-2011 01:37 PM)Thorfinnsson Wrote:  

I think that's a reasonable view. The Tea Party is angry, and so are the OWS people. People should be angry given what has happened and is happening to our country.

The Tea Party has zero credibility to me. Where the fuck were they during the 8 years of Bush when a budget surplus got turned into a deficit? Why weren't they out in the street demonstrating about how Bush added to the debt by launching two wars that were totally unpaid for? They completely shut up and slept on it. Fuck the Tea Party and their hypocrisy. If we had a Republican in office and the debt was the same, they wouldn't be out there protesting it.

Most of these lower/middle class clowns at the Tea Party rallies with the "don't tax me" signs wouldn't even see a tax increase under Obama. They are essentially doing the footwork for wealthy people way too busy making money to even care about protesting a tax hike.

[thegmanifesto]

(10-13-2011 02:45 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(10-13-2011 01:37 PM)Thorfinnsson Wrote:  

I think that's a reasonable view. The Tea Party is angry, and so are the OWS people. People should be angry given what has happened and is happening to our country.

The Tea Party has zero credibility to me. Where the fuck were they during the 8 years of Bush when a budget surplus got turned into a deficit? Why weren't they out in the street demonstrating about how Bush added to the debt by launching two wars that were totally unpaid for? They completely shut up and slept on it. Fuck the Tea Party and their hypocrisy. If we had a Republican in office and the debt was the same, they wouldn't be out there protesting it.

Most of these lower/middle class clowns at the Tea Party rallies with the "don't tax me" signs wouldn't even see a tax increase under Obama. They are essentially doing the footwork for wealthy people way too busy making money to even care about protesting a tax hike.

Great point.

Although if you ask them, "Where the fuck were they during the 8 years of Bush when a budget surplus got turned into a deficit?"

They will tell you they were speaking out about it.

Its beyond laughable.

[Pusscrook]

Tenderman,

I respect the fact that you are a "Libertarian with a small L", but it seems to me that you slant a lot of blame on the shoulders of progressives, and the President, in most of your posts. Since you worked in the financial sector, is this the reason that in most of your posts, you have yet to strike such a hard tone with the financial players who caused this entire world wide crisis to begin with?
Specifically, are you aware of what these banks/financial institution had/have in common with votes in congress? Have you assessed the criminal minds that have caused both the tea party and any other grass roots movement to feel that they needed a voice in Washington? I can assure you , neither the progressive left, nor Obama, have caused the angst that you see today , yet, we have entire voting blocks who profess to know the facts, deny unequivocal knowledge of who the real perpetrators are, and prey on the ignorance of others.

I would be happy to create a chart with names, dates, affiliations, and interest, coinciding with the economic meltdown that caused a world wide crisis right before (2008). I am assuming you have sound knowledge of how the secondary market operates, and how toxic assets affect all of us in that market.If at the end, you can prove to me how progressives were entirely responsible ( or left wing nuts who are intellectually bankrupt as you so eloquently stated) , or, the President , I will refund every whore that has given me something in the last five years.
I don't believe we are free to use information today, promote tomorrow, just because we mortgaged yesterday.

We can do it thru PM, or open forum, let me know when you are ready.

Pusscrook

[Batata]

(10-13-2011 02:45 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(10-13-2011 01:37 PM)Thorfinnsson Wrote:  

I think that's a reasonable view. The Tea Party is angry, and so are the OWS people. People should be angry given what has happened and is happening to our country.

The Tea Party has zero credibility to me. Where the fuck were they during the 8 years of Bush when a budget surplus got turned into a deficit? Why weren't they out in the street demonstrating about how Bush added to the debt by launching two wars that were totally unpaid for? They completely shut up and slept on it. Fuck the Tea Party and their hypocrisy. If we had a Republican in office and the debt was the same, they wouldn't be out there protesting it.

Most of these lower/middle class clowns at the Tea Party rallies with the "don't tax me" signs wouldn't even see a tax increase under Obama. They are essentially doing the footwork for wealthy people way too busy making money to even care about protesting a tax hike.

I don't think the general US populace was anywhere near as keen on government shadiness back during the first Bush term as it is now. You can't forget how wonky the political psychology was in the wake of 9/11 and that the economic fuckery by Wall Street was a project years in the making that surprised everybody.

Thankfully, I think that naivety has slowly begun to dissipate from several sectors of the community thanks to the internet.

[Brian]

(10-13-2011 03:01 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(10-13-2011 02:45 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(10-13-2011 01:37 PM)Thorfinnsson Wrote:  

I think that's a reasonable view. The Tea Party is angry, and so are the OWS people. People should be angry given what has happened and is happening to our country.

The Tea Party has zero credibility to me. Where the fuck were they during the 8 years of Bush when a budget surplus got turned into a deficit? Why weren't they out in the street demonstrating about how Bush added to the debt by launching two wars that were totally unpaid for? They completely shut up and slept on it. Fuck the Tea Party and their hypocrisy. If we had a Republican in office and the debt was the same, they wouldn't be out there protesting it.

Most of these lower/middle class clowns at the Tea Party rallies with the "don't tax me" signs wouldn't even see a tax increase under Obama. They are essentially doing the footwork for wealthy people way too busy making money to even care about protesting a tax hike.

Great point.

Although if you ask them, "Where the fuck were they during the 8 years of Bush when a budget surplus got turned into a deficit?"

They will tell you they were speaking out about it.

Its beyond laughable.

There was no tea party at that point. It didnt exist. The proverbial 'straw that broke the back' or 'straw that started the tea party' occurred in Feb 2009. It happened to be on Obama's watch but a lot of the frustration leading up to it was on Bush's watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-Jw-5Kx8k

I dont really see how anyone can bash the Tea Party. All they really want is to see the Fed Gov spend what it makes.

[thegmanifesto]

"I dont really see how anyone can bash the Tea Party. All they really want is to see the Fed Gov spend what it makes."

Then why didn't they raise a peep during the 8 years of Bush if "All they really want is to see the Fed Gov spend what it makes."?

(Santelli's rant/frustration did not happen during "Bush's watch".)

[Thorfinnsson]

Basic group psychology. When the Republicans controlled Washington, current Tea Partiers felt their team was in power and thus were unconcerned. Similarly, today groups like Code Pink are suspiciously quiet about Obama expanding the War on Terror into Pakistan or violating the War Powers Act with his attack on Libya.

This is also why most people just parrot the opinions of popular ideologies instead of formulating their own ideas.

EDIT: Tenderman I am noticing your post now, I will get to it later.

[Brian]

they didnt raise a peep because they didnt exist. trust me, there were an awful lot of people bitching in September 2008 against the TARP bill. I was in a Congressmans office the week that was voted upon and the girl answering the phones said calls were 200 to 1 against. but there was nothing 'formal' or more organized until Santelli's rant in 2009. If McCain had won Santelli would still have been ranting

[thegmanifesto]

(10-13-2011 03:29 PM)Thorfinnsson Wrote:  

Basic group psychology. When the Republicans controlled Washington, current Tea Partiers felt their team was in power and thus were unconcerned. Similarly, today groups like Code Pink are suspiciously quiet about Obama expanding the War on Terror into Pakistan or violating the War Powers Act with his attack on Libya.

This is also why most people just parrot the opinions of popular ideologies instead of formulating their own ideas.

Great post.

Americans need to get off these left and right "teams'.

Although I guess that is a tall order when most Americans spend their Sundays watching over muscled large men in tight pants and "armor" roll around on the ground together while wearing jerseys with other mens names on their backs.

[Pusscrook]

(10-13-2011 03:23 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

"I dont really see how anyone can bash the Tea Party. All they really want is to see the Fed Gov spend what it makes."

Then why didn't they raise a peep during the 8 years of Bush if "All they really want is to see the Fed Gov spend what it makes."?

(Santelli's rant/frustration did not happen during "Bush's watch".)

and who doesn't? Were you around during the Phil Gramm era? Do you know why we are in this crisis?

[Thorfinnsson]

Sounds good G Manifesto, but not realistic. That's just how people are. We're social primates, and we support our (perceived) tribe and generally follow the leaders. And in any case, any stable society requires consensus. One of the more worrying things in America in the past generation is how left and right have become much more socially polarized, even though they support policies not much different from each other (35% tax rate vs. 39%, who cares?).

[Brian]

you are witnessing the fall or Rome as we speak, although instead of Gladiators at the Colesseum we have the NFL, American Idol, and Dancing with the Stars.

[Basil Ransom]

(10-13-2011 02:45 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(10-13-2011 01:37 PM)Thorfinnsson Wrote:  

I think that's a reasonable view. The Tea Party is angry, and so are the OWS people. People should be angry given what has happened and is happening to our country.

The Tea Party has zero credibility to me. Where the fuck were they during the 8 years of Bush when a budget surplus got turned into a deficit? Why weren't they out in the street demonstrating about how Bush added to the debt by launching two wars that were totally unpaid for? They completely shut up and slept on it. Fuck the Tea Party and their hypocrisy. If we had a Republican in office and the debt was the same, they wouldn't be out there protesting it.

Most of these lower/middle class clowns at the Tea Party rallies with the "don't tax me" signs wouldn't even see a tax increase under Obama. They are essentially doing the footwork for wealthy people way too busy making money to even care about protesting a tax hike.

For whatever reason, in America, it's about party, not principle. For the same reason no mainstream conservatives criticized Bush for most of his tenure, the antiwar movement largely disappeared when Obama got elected. Your point is just as true as the left. So even if the party leader throws core principle to the winds, most of the party followers don't care. It's all very tribal. It reminds me of these third world countries where they depose colonist rule, only to be ruled by a dictator of their own - "but at least he's ours!" I'm not saying this to score points, to say the right is better than the left in this regard. It's just not exclusive to the right.

For the same reason, there never would have been this conservative revival if McCain had been elected. All these self-styled conservatives would have instead invested their energy in defending McCain's non-conservative policies. Just like they did under Bush.

The second link:

Interestingly, the antiwar movement mirrors the divide between OWS and the Tea Party. As the video above describes, there are two parallel antiwar movements, consisting of hard leftists and libertarians, but never shall the two meet. They're too wedded to their other causes, eg anarchy and reclaiming the gold standard, respectively, to join forces.

[PDX]

I live in one of the most liberal counties in the country. I've seen no Obama love amongst the OWS marchers. I have, however, seen plenty of opposition to the 2-party system and the corporate takeover of our government.

These are things that everyone should be concerned about.

[speakeasy]

Some millionaires are standing with the OWS movement.

http://www.good.is/post/people-are-aweso...ll-street/

[thegmanifesto]

(10-13-2011 04:20 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Some millionaires are standing with the OWS movement.

http://www.good.is/post/people-are-aweso...ll-street/

Of course.

Even Corporate Raider Asher Edelman Backs Occupy Wall Street.

This is one of the guys Gordon Gekko was partially based on.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44787637

[Roosh]

They got a TIME cover... good for them.



I'm starting to believe!

[Pusscrook]

I have been watching this series over and over again, and for the life of me, I can't seem to understand why "progressives", and the President, are now being attacked for class warfare.

Can someone explain to me how is it possible to trust someone who use information today, to promote tomorrow, but conveniently forgets that they mortgaged yesterday?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zZ_JfROhOE

[Brian]

(10-14-2011 08:40 AM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

I have been watching this series over and over again, and for the life of me, I can't seem to understand why "progressives", and the President, are now being attacked for class warfare.

Can someone explain to me how is it possible to trust someone who use information today, to promote tomorrow, but conveniently forgets that they mortgaged yesterday?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zZ_JfROhOE

to answer your question the reason the president is being attacked for class warfare is because he keeps blaming alot of the problems we have on 'millionaires, billionaires, and private jet owners' who 'refuse to pay their fair share'

[Pusscrook]

(10-14-2011 09:20 AM)Brian Wrote:  

(10-14-2011 08:40 AM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

I have been watching this series over and over again, and for the life of me, I can't seem to understand why "progressives", and the President, are now being attacked for class warfare.

Can someone explain to me how is it possible to trust someone who use information today, to promote tomorrow, but conveniently forgets that they mortgaged yesterday?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zZ_JfROhOE

to answer your question the reason the president is being attacked for class warfare is because he keeps blaming alot of the problems we have on 'millionaires, billionaires, and private jet owners' who 'refuse to pay their fair share'

Is the very source of all this suspicion, the work of guilty minds? Strange , I never heard him "blame" anyone for the acts that got us in to this shit-hole except those who were responsible.

[Pilgrim37]

Not as good as Inside Job but still interesting.
Incredible nobody's in jail!

[Brian]

(10-14-2011 10:20 AM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(10-14-2011 09:20 AM)Brian Wrote:  

(10-14-2011 08:40 AM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

I have been watching this series over and over again, and for the life of me, I can't seem to understand why "progressives", and the President, are now being attacked for class warfare.

Can someone explain to me how is it possible to trust someone who use information today, to promote tomorrow, but conveniently forgets that they mortgaged yesterday?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zZ_JfROhOE

to answer your question the reason the president is being attacked for class warfare is because he keeps blaming alot of the problems we have on 'millionaires, billionaires, and private jet owners' who 'refuse to pay their fair share'

Is the very source of all this suspicion, the work of guilty minds? Strange , I never heard him "blame" anyone for the acts that got us in to this shit-hole except those who were responsible.

if you think every millionaire, billionaire, and private jet owner is responsible for this mess you are nuts. most millionaire and billionaires are private business owners who risk taking provides jobs for alot of society. ever got a job from a poor man? didnt think so. are there some millionaire and billionaires who got rich off the recent banking/mortgage implosion that belong in jail. absofuckinglutely. but the fact of the matter is that Obama has been in charge for 3 years now and his administration hasnt done dick to pursue those people, all he does is talk about them and use them as an excuse to raise taxes on business owners and people making decent coin so he can continue his progressive agenda of redistributing the wealth around to those to lazy to work for it themselves.

[Brian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrPGoPFRU...r_embedded

[The_CEO]

(10-14-2011 11:31 AM)Brian Wrote:  

(10-14-2011 10:20 AM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

(10-14-2011 09:20 AM)Brian Wrote:  

(10-14-2011 08:40 AM)Pusscrook Wrote:  

I have been watching this series over and over again, and for the life of me, I can't seem to understand why "progressives", and the President, are now being attacked for class warfare.

Can someone explain to me how is it possible to trust someone who use information today, to promote tomorrow, but conveniently forgets that they mortgaged yesterday?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zZ_JfROhOE

to answer your question the reason the president is being attacked for class warfare is because he keeps blaming alot of the problems we have on 'millionaires, billionaires, and private jet owners' who 'refuse to pay their fair share'

Is the very source of all this suspicion, the work of guilty minds? Strange , I never heard him "blame" anyone for the acts that got us in to this shit-hole except those who were responsible.

his progressive agenda of redistributing the wealth around to those to lazy to work for it themselves.

"From the end of World War II until 1981, the richest Americans faced a top marginal tax rate of 70 percent or above. Under Dwight Eisenhower it was 91 percent. Even after all deductions and credits, the top taxes on the very rich were far higher than they’ve been since. Yet the economy grew faster during those years than it has since. (Don’t believe small businesses would be hurt by a higher marginal tax; fewer than 2 percent of small business owners are in the highest tax bracket.)"