[Geomann180]

(01-04-2019 02:58 PM)EndsExpect Wrote:  

[quote='Spaniard88' pid='1915572' dateline='1546612500']There are a good number of ride or die women out there... you just have to find them.

I'm also going to say that if the only thing you value in a woman is looks... you will likely always miss the best ones. A 6 with a great heart is worth more than any jewel and a 9 with a bad attitude is worth less than shit.

Where/how'd you find yours?

G

[remarkable vigour]

(01-05-2019 01:30 PM)Higgins Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 12:48 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

"Your honor, I bought 500k in gold, and then I took it out on my boat, and the boat sank and now the money's gone forever!"

Good lord. Judges' aren't idiots, and they don't like people who are obviously trying to pull fast ones on them.
You're not NEARLY as clever as you think you are.

Judges' aren't idiots, but they do have to try to be impartial or our entire legal system is a sham. They have to give the defendant the benefit of the doubt in the absence of concrete proof.

For your scenario 2 years prior to a divorce, no problem. 2 weeks before, different story. In fact I say this in the post before yours that timing is everything. You are capable of reading yes?

Perhaps you should wise up to the fact that the whole legal system is a sham.

[doc holliday]

(01-05-2019 05:25 PM)Higgins Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 01:52 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

So Higgins, how do you buy such a lump sum of XMR without it being traceable via discovery during a divorce? Sometimes they will go back 5 years to check for suspicious transactions.

Your post is contradictory. You ask how to buy crypto during a divorce implying it is a currently happening event, yet you say the courts will go back 5 years in a person's financial history but you haven't bought the crypto because the divorce is happening now.

Nice try. Amateurish as it was.

Speaking of amateurs who can't read, I didn't ask how to buy crypto during a divorce, I asked how you can prevent a purchase of crypto that you have bought a few years prior from being discovered. Especially such a large sum like $500K. In order to buy XMR, you need to buy BTC first and unless you have $500K of cash sitting around, it's gonna involve a bank transfer to Coinbase or another crypto broker. You make this purchase, don't disclose it and it then gets discovered, then you'll be in some serious dog shit like everyone else has said. I'm interested in how you reconcile this by a method that does not involve perjuring yourself in court. Hell even trying to transfer that amount of USD to buy crypto is going to cause the bank to report it to the IRS and Homeland Security so you'll be on everyone's radar big time, even years before any divorce.

By the way, I see you're new here so welcome. Now please continue the discussion without being a typical newb jack ass if you can manage it (man most of our new members these days are just hideously awful with zero social graces or manners).

[worldwidetraveler]

(01-05-2019 09:52 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

By the way, I see you're new here so welcome. Now please continue the discussion without being a typical newb jack ass if you can manage it (man most of our new members these days are just hideously awful with zero social graces or manners).

Doc, I know I appreciate these newbies coming in and educating us right from the start.

Especially with real life scenarios such as...

Quote:

What happens in discovery?
Lawyer for opposing party: Do you have any other accounts not mentioned?
Guy getting questioned: No. (Of course he does)
Next.

Only a guy with experience could have come up with that realistic scenario!

On a side note, I need to tell my sister she doesn't charge nearly enough for bankruptcies.

[Higgins]

(01-05-2019 09:52 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

Speaking of amateurs who can't read, I didn't ask how to buy crypto during a divorce, I asked how you can prevent a purchase of crypto that you have bought a few years prior from being discovered. Especially such a large sum like $500K. In order to buy XMR, you need to buy BTC first and unless you have $500K of cash sitting around, it's gonna involve a bank transfer to Coinbase or another crypto broker. You make this purchase, don't disclose it and it then gets discovered, then you'll be in some serious dog shit like everyone else has said. I'm interested in how you reconcile this by a method that does not involve perjuring yourself in court. Hell even trying to transfer that amount of USD to buy crypto is going to cause the bank to report it to the IRS and Homeland Security so you'll be on everyone's radar big time, even years before any divorce.

By the way, I see you're new here so welcome. Now please continue the discussion without being a typical newb jack ass if you can manage it (man most of our new members these days are just hideously awful with zero social graces or manners).

There's no reason for you to hide it. You bought it because you wanted some. Don't fall into statute limitations and you are good. Disclose it sure. Then say over the years you lost the crypto.

Why would you need BTC first? Every major crypto broker has an OTC desk directly when you can get a crypto of your choice within reason sent directly to an address you control. 500K is nothing to them. You wire the cash to them, you get crypto. I did >100K sums much of late 2017-to June 2018 no questions asked. If you are above water and disclosing, why would the IRS care? They want you to make money and pay tax.

You guys keep thinking it's about hiding your assets. No it's about you showing you ostensibly you have no control over the asset.

Amateurs indeed.

[Higgins]

(01-06-2019 02:34 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

Doc, I know I appreciate these newbies coming in and educating us right from the start.

Especially with real life scenarios such as...

Quote:

What happens in discovery?
Lawyer for opposing party: Do you have any other accounts not mentioned?
Guy getting questioned: No. (Of course he does)
Next.

Only a guy with experience could have come up with that realistic scenario!

On a side note, I need to tell my sister she doesn't charge nearly enough for bankruptcies.

I was surprised when the arbitrator in discovery did that, but hey feel free to tell me what really happened in that room in court I was sitting in opposite from the defendant. Because I mean you have so much experience you didn't even know that was a statute on fraudulent transactions right?

(01-05-2019 03:51 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

The judge doesn't have to prove anything. They can just say it was a fraudulent transfer and you pay up. I would bet money they would consider anything transferred before a divorce to be a fraudulent transfer.

I like how you conveniently ignored the rest of my post. I'm willing to bet you don't have nearly anywhere the amount of net worth needed to even consider asset protection. Consider this education.

It would also help if you didn't get triggered by getting educated by a 11 post "newbie". I suspect your fragile ego needs to get picked up now. I'll send a care package with vaseline.

Clearly, you are not NEARLY as smart, well read or experienced as you think you are.

If your sister is any good, PM me. Seriously, srsly. Got her pic?

[doc holliday]

So you've bought some XMR yet somehow you don't control any of it? How does that work? You have access to the wallet which contains the XMR so I and any judge will say you have plenty of access to it and control of it.

[lunchmoney]

(01-04-2019 11:39 AM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 10:45 AM)Hammerhead Wrote:  

All good points. Just to clear things up for those who don't read the blog though. The guy did have a nice house that he remodeled himself, backed up to a park in the Boulder CO area. He also had 2 cars, one being brand new (Nissan Leaf though). They weren't living badly, so I'm wondering if it was something other than the frugality.

And now SHE has a nice house and the new car. And millions of dollars more to upgrade and spend on whatever.

The sad reality is she already has her dick in waiting probably moved in to HIS house and sitting in HIS car, spending HIS money.

[Higgins]

(01-06-2019 07:02 AM)doc holliday Wrote:  

So you've bought some XMR yet somehow you don't control any of it? How does that work? You have access to the wallet which contains the XMR so I and any judge will say you have plenty of access to it and control of it.

You "lost" it sending it to an "incorrect" address after getting it, sometime over the years. Or maybe you got hacked.

Look at it this way, a wife takes out life insurance on a husband. The husband then dies in a suspect accident. What is more suspect, if the life insurance was bought 5 years ago or 5 weeks ago? Regardless of whether the marriage was rocky or not.

I know this point might be hard to believe for the user base of this forum but judges do have to try to be impartial. Yes they are not dumb. No they do not automatically jump to conclusions. Reading some of the responses on this thread, it is blatantly obvious most of you have never been in any side of a lawsuit. Consider yourselves lucky.

Controversial point(I did say in my 1st post in this thread this is controversial): You don't have to perjure on the acquisition of the asset, but you will have to perjure on the control of the asset. That's the cost of keeping a chunk of your net worth around.

If that offends your morality, I suggest you guys get more "red pilled".

Thanks for the welcome, hope this helps to open some minds.

[edlefou]

(01-05-2019 02:38 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

I bet if he popped a few more babies into her, they'd still be married. Probably outside his budget though.

This. I read somewhere he got a vasectomy after the first kid and thought what the fuck. He could sire a half dozen kids and decides to quit after one?

His old finance posts are pretty good. Most people shit on the idea of reducing your costs and saving money, but I think it's the right approach if you want to get rich.

[fantome]

What´s the use of money if your living like a poor? So you can jerk off reading your bank statements?

[DarkTriad]

(01-05-2019 04:42 AM)Higgins Wrote:  

I think only 1 person here so far has touched upon the most neglected and possibly the most contentious point so far: It is possible to hide assets, especially in this day and age.

I won't go into details that have been discussed already, but crypto is one great option. Obviously to MMM's case, his net worth is well known and public having built a blog on top of it, so it's not so easy however no reason a guy like that can't throw 500K into say XMR.

If it ever hit the courts, he could just say "oops, transferred it to wrong address, bye bye".

The last guy that did something similar spent many years in jail. On no charge but contempt of court. A lot of people here are WILDLY underestimating the brutality/insanity of Family Court in the USA. They're not "asking" for stuff, please and thank you. They simply tell you to come up with crazy amounts of money or go to jail. If you have money (or even rumors of money), top notch lawyers will hire "experts" to "prove" you have the money...whether you have it or not. They don't have to "find" your crypto....you better find your crypto or you're going to jail.

You're expecting some kind of logic or fairness out of family court, this is simply not the case, especially with kids.

[CleanSlate]

(01-06-2019 09:29 AM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 04:42 AM)Higgins Wrote:  

I think only 1 person here so far has touched upon the most neglected and possibly the most contentious point so far: It is possible to hide assets, especially in this day and age.

I won't go into details that have been discussed already, but crypto is one great option. Obviously to MMM's case, his net worth is well known and public having built a blog on top of it, so it's not so easy however no reason a guy like that can't throw 500K into say XMR.

If it ever hit the courts, he could just say "oops, transferred it to wrong address, bye bye".

The last guy that did something similar spent many years in jail. On no charge but contempt of court. A lot of people here are WILDLY underestimating the brutality/insanity of Family Court in the USA. They're not "asking" for stuff, please and thank you. They simply tell you to come up with crazy amounts of money or go to jail. If you have money (or even rumors of money), top notch lawyers will hire "experts" to "prove" you have the money...whether you have it or not. They don't have to "find" your crypto....you better find your crypto or you're going to jail.

You're expecting some kind of logic or fairness out of family court, this is simply not the case, especially with kids.

That was my whole point. This Higgins guy didn’t listen and probably never will as long as he’s calling us “amateurs”... so just let him be.

[DarkTriad]

(01-05-2019 12:11 PM)Hammerhead Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 02:46 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

In reading his blogs early on, I immediately noticed that he's in an equality marriage, from the way he wrote about his wife, and from the way she wrote about herself and him. Another giveaway was that despite their early retirement and being wealthy, they only have one child. I had a feeling that something like this would happen down the track. There is only one end for all equality marriages: divorce. The core of a successful marriage is not frugality, MMM or FIRE, it is following biblical roles: leader for man, helpmeet for woman or man leads, wife submits. You can never have a successful marriage when the man and the woman are "coparents" or "partners", equal in everything.

I suspect this is more the reason than the frugality. He wasn't extremely frugal, just smart about things. Have recent divorce statistics been released? Nearly all of my friends in their 30s and 40s have been divorced now, though some are on their 2nd marriages already. I suspect it's higher than 50% now just based on my personal experience. I could see this information being suppressed.

If I do get married, I will be pushing for a "Private Marriage" in a state that doesn't recognize common law marriage.

This strategy has been successfully executed by Eddie Murphy with that Spice girl singer. He gave her a spectacular island wedding and then she completely showed her true personality before the ink was dry. He kicked her to the curb and there was nothing she could do to him. Wasn't a legal marriage, but due to the big wedding in a foreign country she wasn't aware and exposed herself before she got her claws in.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(01-04-2019 07:17 AM)redbeard Wrote:  

This shit annoys me:

Quote:

The good news is that we have had about the most amicable separation that one could hope for, we all still spend plenty of time together and our son is still in the same loving environment he has always had. And I would venture to say that both of us parents are going to come out of the experience much better off than we were before.

For all of his love of rationality and IFUCKINGLOVESCIENCE, apparently he's not capable of doing a quick google search to find studies showing that children with divorced parents end up doing a lot worse than average no matter how much "loving environment" (or money) you supply - no to mention their 10x higher abuse rates.

[DarkTriad]

(01-06-2019 09:35 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(01-06-2019 09:29 AM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 04:42 AM)Higgins Wrote:  

I think only 1 person here so far has touched upon the most neglected and possibly the most contentious point so far: It is possible to hide assets, especially in this day and age.

I won't go into details that have been discussed already, but crypto is one great option. Obviously to MMM's case, his net worth is well known and public having built a blog on top of it, so it's not so easy however no reason a guy like that can't throw 500K into say XMR.

If it ever hit the courts, he could just say "oops, transferred it to wrong address, bye bye".

The last guy that did something similar spent many years in jail. On no charge but contempt of court. A lot of people here are WILDLY underestimating the brutality/insanity of Family Court in the USA. They're not "asking" for stuff, please and thank you. They simply tell you to come up with crazy amounts of money or go to jail. If you have money (or even rumors of money), top notch lawyers will hire "experts" to "prove" you have the money...whether you have it or not. They don't have to "find" your crypto....you better find your crypto or you're going to jail.

You're expecting some kind of logic or fairness out of family court, this is simply not the case, especially with kids.

That was my whole point. This Higgins guy didn’t listen and probably never will as long as he’s calling us “amateurs”... so just let him be.

It's quite possible he's very knowledgeable about the law, but Family Court is a whole different animal than any other kind of court in the US. I'm not a lawyer but i did over 20 years in Law Enforcement with a lot of court time, and a major topic of discussion for decades as the outcome of court cases (both our professional in criminal courts and the outcomes we personally experienced or witnessed in Family Court). Imagine every criticism or abuse you've ever heard about the Criminal Justice system. Imagine a system a thousand times worse, with almost none of the protections and second chances you get in the rest of the court system.

They routinely throw guys in jail for the crime of losing their job, this won't deter them.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

(01-05-2019 06:53 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 06:06 AM)Higgins Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 04:52 AM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

You know that would never, EVER, work, right?

Please, break it down why not.

Man: “oops, transferred it to the wrong address, it’s gone”
Judge: “ok then you’re going to jail” *slams gavel*

The judge would jail you for contempt, but more to the point, he would divide your assets so the "lost" $500K comes out of your portion, and then some. He simply wouldn't believe it was lost, so he would punish you disporportionally as a a result.

Now if you slowly diverted money to crypto for years, and never told anyone or even mentioned crypto in any way to your wife over the years, and made sure the rest of your finances were simple and straight forward, you could agree to an uncontested divorce where your wife gets all the terms she wants, and then you could get away with your secret crypto stash.

You'd have to wait for years to spend it though, and show nothing in your lifestyle that appears to be beyond your divorce raped means.

All in all, it's a difficult strategy to pull off, and then if you managed to hide the bulk of your assets so she is truly fooled and you keep the lion's share, you couldn't spend it or you'd still get caught.

Regarding the MMM situation, I agree with some of the earlier posters that he erred in not even providing a lifestyle for his wife that they could prudently afford. He was excessively scrooge-like in an OCD way, and it's basic LTR game not to do this.

A woman chooses a man as a provider, and invests her time in him with the expectation it will pay off for her and her children. If a rich husband wants to permanently live like someone who is so broke they have to apply emergency austerity measures, he is guarenteed to be dumped.

The words thrifty and miser have a similar meaning on the surface, but miser has had a negative connotation since ancient times. Unfortunately, in these decadent times, even if he hadn't been a miser, he still would he been at high risk of her divorcing him and cleaning him out.

[DarkTriad]

(01-06-2019 03:35 AM)Higgins Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 09:52 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

Speaking of amateurs who can't read, I didn't ask how to buy crypto during a divorce, I asked how you can prevent a purchase of crypto that you have bought a few years prior from being discovered. Especially such a large sum like $500K. In order to buy XMR, you need to buy BTC first and unless you have $500K of cash sitting around, it's gonna involve a bank transfer to Coinbase or another crypto broker. You make this purchase, don't disclose it and it then gets discovered, then you'll be in some serious dog shit like everyone else has said. I'm interested in how you reconcile this by a method that does not involve perjuring yourself in court. Hell even trying to transfer that amount of USD to buy crypto is going to cause the bank to report it to the IRS and Homeland Security so you'll be on everyone's radar big time, even years before any divorce.

By the way, I see you're new here so welcome. Now please continue the discussion without being a typical newb jack ass if you can manage it (man most of our new members these days are just hideously awful with zero social graces or manners).

There's no reason for you to hide it. You bought it because you wanted some. Don't fall into statute limitations and you are good. Disclose it sure. Then say over the years you lost the crypto.

Why would you need BTC first? Every major crypto broker has an OTC desk directly when you can get a crypto of your choice within reason sent directly to an address you control. 500K is nothing to them. You wire the cash to them, you get crypto. I did >100K sums much of late 2017-to June 2018 no questions asked. If you are above water and disclosing, why would the IRS care? They want you to make money and pay tax.

You guys keep thinking it's about hiding your assets. No it's about you showing you ostensibly you have no control over the asset.

Amateurs indeed.

You're thinking of the logical, rational courts the rest of the system has. If you tried to tell family court you didn't have "control" over the the assets., the Family Court's response is to order you to pay an absurd amount of money to her legal team to pay more lawyers, forensic accountants and "experts" to "prove" that you DO have access to it. Then you're obliged to spend a similar amount to defend yourself. Even if you "win", you probably pissed off the judge enough to have her jack up the Child Support enough to make up the difference anyway.

They throw people in jail for not getting the high paid job their degree and skills should entitle them too, this isn't going to stop them.

[Higgins]

DarkTriad: I don't doubt the ferocity of family I've seen some of it, but what's your sample size on that one guy? Sure, he got hit with contempt, how about the 99 guys before him?

I'm not shitting on your experience with family court, but you might be overly defeatist about it. Granted I haven't been thru family so perhaps I'm learning something new right now.

RoastBeefCurtains4Me: I agree, the best defense is keeping your mouth shut. Are you a judge or a lawyer, been through this scenario? Otherwise you are simply giving your opinion. Maybe the judges are better where you are. I have been down this road and I would love for your scenario to have happened re: division of assets(not that there was much left).

Look guys, I am simply giving an option. Controversial yes, but what's the alternative? Simply bet it all on one girl and cry when it doesn't work out? For a bunch of supposed "red pilled" guys the responses have been incredibly black pilled. Thought the readers of this forum would want to try to better their position instead of taking the court cock.

But hey maybe some of you like the cock, court or otherwise.

[DarkTriad]

(01-05-2019 10:19 AM)Higgins Wrote:  

How do you prove intent to defraud in the above scenario?

We're simply trying to explain the nature of Family Court. What you're talking about WOULD work in a criminal court where you're innocent until proven guilty and all kinds of protections. In Family Court, the judge just says they don't believe you and pay up or go to jail. That's it. Or just jacks up some other payment to make up for it (and then some).

[DarkTriad]

(01-06-2019 10:37 AM)Higgins Wrote:  

DarkTriad: I don't doubt the ferocity of family I've seen some of it, but what's your sample size on that one guy? Sure, he got hit with contempt, how about the 99 guys before him?

I'm not shitting on your experience with family court, but you might be overly defeatist about it. Granted I haven't been thru family so perhaps I'm learning something new right now.

RoastBeefCurtains4Me: I agree, the best defense is keeping your mouth shut. Are you a judge or a lawyer, been through this scenario? Otherwise you are simply giving your opinion. Maybe the judges are better where you are. I have been down this road and I would love for your scenario to have happened re: division of assets(not that there was much left).

Look guys, I am simply giving an option. Controversial yes, but what's the alternative? Simply bet it all on one girl and cry when it doesn't work out? For a bunch of supposed "red pilled" guys the responses have been incredibly black pilled. Thought the readers of this forum would want to try to better their position instead of taking the court cock.

But hey maybe some of you like the cock, court or otherwise.

Respectfully Higgins, nobody is proposing bending over, we're just discussing the common tools and tactics of a very dangerous enemy and what will and will not work against them. What you're suggesting is playing into their strengths in the worst possible way. When someone else suggested something that has worked, I made a post citing a famous example of it having worked in the past. RoastBeefCurtains also gave some workable stuff.

Quote:

I don't doubt the ferocity of family I've seen some of it, but what's your sample size on that one guy? Sure, he got hit with contempt, how about the 99 guys before him?

I'm telling you thousands of others have gone to jail....for a lot less. The most common is just losing your job. If they throw people in jail for that, how is something that's transparently contrived going to fly?

To get a feel for the system, I suggest reading up on the "Imputed Income" doctrine they're following, where you go to jail for not even getting the job your skills might have gotten you in a more ideal world.

They don't even care if the money exists, they want you to pay go to jail.

[worldwidetraveler]

(01-06-2019 10:45 AM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

(01-05-2019 10:19 AM)Higgins Wrote:  

How do you prove intent to defraud in the above scenario?

We're simply trying to explain the nature of Family Court. What you're talking about WOULD work in a criminal court where you're innocent until proven guilty and all kinds of protections. In Family Court, the judge just says they don't believe you and pay up or go to jail. That's it. Or just jacks up some other payment to make up for it (and then some).

I wouldn't waste your time with the LilDark of Crypto. You got a documentary called Divorce, Inc that was created to show how shitty family court is and he is asking for sample sizes of guys getting fucked over.

We need to make sure these points are made so no one follows his foolish advice and get in trouble for it. Trolls gonna troll which is why I won't respond to him any longer.

Quote:

They don't even care if the money exists, they want you to pay go to jail.

Yep, many of us already said that but he thinks the judges need to be fair. Anyway, I have a feeling we are talking to a guy who works as a English teacher in Vietnam. The writing style is very, very similar. That guy was banned from this forum for making shit up.

[Curunír]

I found this thread extremely interesting learning about MMM and his fall from a beta marriage before it became about non lawyers debatting about American family Court (which greatly varies by state by the way).

[g(r)eek]

Back to the regularly scheduled programming:

While I'm new around here, I used to be a regular on the MMM forums in 2014-2015. I've often kinda wondered how long their marriage would last for similar reasons others here have voiced...

(01-05-2019 03:32 PM)Penta Sahi Wrote:  

So here's my tinfoil hat conspiracy: After reviewing the MMM family finances, she decides its time to cash out and ride off with handsome chiseled Lukas from the gym.

Another case of Alpha fucks Beta bucks?

Once the female gets the cash herself then it's just Alpha fucks and nothing else...

(01-06-2019 07:19 AM)lunchmoney Wrote:  

The sad reality is she already has her dick in waiting probably moved in to HIS house and sitting in HIS car, spending HIS money.

Nah, she and her new beau probably traded in the wind-up car Nissan Leaf before the ink on the divorce was dry. There's probably something with a blue and white propeller logo sitting in the driveway now.

How's that for hedonic adaptation??

[nomadbrah]

Paraphrased from Havamal:

"Do not save for a friend, what a foe might get" aka don't become Scrooge McDuck.

I can't help but think most financial advice like this is hopelessly blue pilled. Don't get me wrong, I used to be horrible with finances and could definitely have used his teachings. On the other hand, this is like so many self employed people slaving away, trying to cut costs, working 70 hours a week, when moving to a low tax locale would instantly increase your earnings by much more.

Blue pill advice = just work harder/more hours/hustle more

Red pill advice = don't give your money away

In this case, a divorce is a "lose half your net worth" risk, which should trump all other menial concerns until taken care off.