[NickDunne]

Hi Gents,

Found myself in a bit of a conundrum so I'd appreciate a few honest expert opinions.

I've recently been on a business trip with a girl from work. Very hot, but we've been just on friendly terms for the last couple of years. Wrote about her here:

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To give a quick recap, I've been seeing this girl in the office regularly, having coffee with her everyday for the last couple of years. When we first met she literally said: "You and me - never happening." I was actually cool with that and we've been socializing ever since. Coffee at home base, going out together on business trips - she was even winging for me, and quite successfully so. I was married long before I met her and she was single up until 6 or so months ago. Because she lives too close to home and the fact that we work together, I never tried anything and actually treated her just like a male buddy - no censorship on the humor, stories, red pill wisdom whatsoever. Never an issue with her.

Now this last trip was the first one we made together after she got into her LTR. First evening we go out, just the two of us, and she immediately starts shooting one loaded phrase after another. Out of the blue. All sex this and that, how she never cheated on her boyfriend, asking me about action lately. Starts telling me I should be more "dominant" and suggest where we should go now. At this point, I literally looked her in the eye and asked in a semi-serious way: "What's this shit now? I thought we were buddies. I don't do friends "dominantly"." Now, I admit, had I had more drinks in my system by that time, I would not be here wandering, I would know.

Anyway, we soon end the evening (she just brushed my comment off) and the next couple of days she finds excuses not to hang out. The last day of the trip I go out with her and her new cute colleague. I decide to test my doubts and go ballistic hitting on the new chick (but never direct game because we work in the same company). Now, as I said before, my friend never had an issue with me pulling other chicks on our prior "dates" or winging for me before. This time, I could feel she was pissed but she didn't say a thing. After we got back from the trip, she's been successfully avoiding me for days now.

So guys, what's your verdict? Did I miss out on a chance or was she just bored with her new life and all this "avoiding" is just a coincidence and in my head?

Personally, if she flat-out proposed, I really don't think I'd find the inner strength to refuse, but I have a strong feeling that it indeed would bring a lot of headache and problems afterwards.

[tr1cky]

Sounds like she is embarrassed she got sloppy and was flirting with you that night.

[Jetset]

Sounds like you missed an epic opportunity...to get blood eagled by some miserable hag in HR.

[ed pluribus unum]

Dodged a bullet. You work with this chick.

[NickDunne]

Just want to clarify: where I live, the HR is not (yet) that dangerous as in the States and the Western world.

My problems would be a potentially unpleasant working environment and my wife possibly finding out about the affair (we sometimes socialize with people from work and there are social network connections).

So yes, a bad idea in any case, just not that dramatic employment-wise.

[jeffreyjerpp]

(10-23-2018 12:33 PM)NickDunne Wrote:  

To give a quick recap, I've been seeing this girl in the office regularly, having coffee with her everyday for the last couple of years. When we first met she literally said: "You and me - never happening." I was actually cool with that and we've been socializing ever since. Coffee at home base, going out together on business trips - she was even winging for me, and quite successfully so. I was married long before I met her and she was single up until 6 or so months ago. Because she lives too close to home and the fact that we work together, I never tried anything and actually treated her just like a male buddy - no censorship on the humor, stories, red pill wisdom whatsoever. Never an issue with her.

Now this last trip was the first one we made together after she got into her LTR. First evening we go out, just the two of us, and she immediately starts shooting one loaded phrase after another. Out of the blue. All sex this and that, how she never cheated on her boyfriend, asking me about action lately. Starts telling me I should be more "dominant" and suggest where we should go now. At this point, I literally looked her in the eye and asked in a semi-serious way: "What's this shit now? I thought we were buddies. I don't do friends "dominantly"." Now, I admit, had I had more drinks in my system by that time, I would not be here wandering, I would know.

Anyway, we soon end the evening (she just brushed my comment off) and the next couple of days she finds excuses not to hang out. The last day of the trip I go out with her and her new cute colleague. I decide to test my doubts and go ballistic hitting on the new chick (but never direct game because we work in the same company). Now, as I said before, my friend never had an issue with me pulling other chicks on our prior "dates" or winging for me before. This time, I could feel she was pissed but she didn't say a thing. After we got back from the trip, she's been successfully avoiding me for days now.

My thoughts, in no particular order:

1) You could definitely have fucked her. This attractive girl has spent time with you, gotten drinks with you, and watched you bang multiple girls in front of her. It was only a matter of time.

2) It's almost impossible for men and women to be truly platonic friends. There will always be underlying sexual interest (if not outright tension), the best you can hope to do is ignore it, or practice mutual restraint. She is very hot, and said that you two would never hook up, and like a decent guy, you restrained yourself around her. But that doesn't mean that sexual element wasn't there, just that it was repressed by the both of you.

3) Whether consciously or not, she was probably waiting to do this for a while. Normal women have beta orbiters, whereas hot women have "male friends" that are just orbiters they have real respect for. She clearly respects you, and wouldn't have behaved in a truly friendly way otherwise. However, you have majorly disrupted the relationship by not giving her the sexual interest she assumed she could get whenever.

4) Fucking her may have been a big mistake, as her response after getting shot down shows. If she can't just laugh it off, and either quickly apologize or just pretend it didn't happen and then return to normal, your "friendship" was a LOT more complicated than you realized it was.

[jeffreyjerpp]

(10-23-2018 01:19 PM)NickDunne Wrote:  

Just want to clarify: where I live, the HR is not (yet) that dangerous as in the States and the Western world.

My problems would be a potentially unpleasant working environment and my wife possibly finding out about the affair (we sometimes socialize with people from work and there are social network connections).

So yes, a bad idea in any case, just not that dramatic employment-wise.

What region of the world are you in?

And where would you put your wife on the 10 point scale?

[NickDunne]

(10-23-2018 01:19 PM)jeffreyjerpp Wrote:  

However, you have majorly disrupted the relationship by not giving her the sexual interest she assumed she could get whenever.

My thoughts also - I just cannot make up my mind as to whether she is pissed for being rejected (feeding her ego with me) or pissed that she cannot have me (genuine interest).

I'm in Central/Eastern Europe.
My wife is about 7-8 on the scale. 9 out of 10 men would pick this chick over my wife for sex.
As relationship material, my wife is light years ahead even with all her quirks.

[jeffreyjerpp]

(10-23-2018 01:28 PM)NickDunne Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 01:19 PM)jeffreyjerpp Wrote:  

However, you have majorly disrupted the relationship by not giving her the sexual interest she assumed she could get whenever.

My thoughts also - I just cannot make up my mind as to whether she is pissed for being rejected (feeding her ego with me) or pissed that she cannot have me (genuine interest).

I'm in Central/Eastern Europe.
My wife is about 7-8 on the scale. 9 out of 10 men would pick this chick over my wife for sex.
As relationship material, my wife is light years ahead even with all her quirks.

It's both ego and interest.

I've had girls play the same game with me before. Women evolved to have backup male orbiters, in case their steady partner died or abandoned them. The difference being that regular women have pretty pathetic beta orbiters, whereas hot women have alpha orbiters (yes alpha orbiter is a real thing).

Really hot women want time and attention from a legitimately attractive man (like an 8/10 guy in their eyes). They want the ego boost and reassurance of knowing that if they ever wanted to, they could have him romantically. In return, they show you real respect, either helping you hit on girls, really listening to you, whatever. But it's all predicated on you being there whenever they want to get fucked.

If you're comfortable cheating on your wife, then maybe fucking this girl isn't such a bad idea. I would personally say that blowing up a marriage with an attractive woman who you legitimately like is not worth some pussy, not even close.

[Noir]

See, this is a typical men and women scenario.

I think you did the right thing as you work together but judging from your wording 'did I miss a chance' / previous threads, I am assuming you want it. At least, post-fact.

You're both in a new environment where no one knows you, it can be whatever you want it to be with minimal repercussions.

She wanted adventure and to test-drive you in a place where it won't come out and in a woman's mind, it's a 'free pass'. No peer judgment, memory triggers and it's adventurous/sexy/fantasy.

This is the type of scenario that people cheat in due to the above and the fact that it's with someone you come into regular contact with.

Notice how she is being dynamic and there are no rigid rules, it's all circumstantial. This is the domain the woman operates in.
Notice how you are being static and are abiding by some sort of code, regardless of circumstance.

Notice how she realizes you're not picking up on the bait (or choosing not to) and is more direct - 'be more dominant', she is leading.
Notice how you are looking back at your rulebook

This is also a decent example of why women are more socially savvy and can read between the lines. Developed in response to living in a 'dynamic' social environment.

Meanwhile, you filed all your future interactions with this girl under 'unlikely to fuck' and when these cues came up, you didn't (or rather chose not to) act upon them.

She's qualifying, expecting some reward for opening up.
Asks you questions about sex life to estimate at what level to come in on.

I was really hoping you gave a little smirk or wink after your 'I thought we were buddies' line until I remembered you worked together.

a) twist at the end, fuck with her mind and put her on her toes (turns this whole flirt around)
b) builds sexual tension and allows possibility to go somewhere -> changes frame and gives her the green light as she didn't receive one yet (i.e. its not futile I can still fuck this guy)

She wanted sex and you rejected it.

For a woman that's harsh but for a woman seeking validation (recently single, mentioning her fidelity) you probably 'hurt her feelings' because women have a talent to view these things pessimistically in a fragile manner.

Add the fact that you work with her and she is guaranteed to see you again, you can understand why she thinks the downside > upside and she will decide against anything.

That was your one chance but fuck it, I think you dodged a bullet.

I regret fucking the girls at the offices I worked, nothing beneficial to my life came out of it.

edit: lol I see the poll option of 'imagine everything' - assuming you mean 'imagine everything that will fuck out if I pursue this' instead of a Samsung sounding slogan

[Geomann180]

What you do as a married man is ultimately your business, but in this case you dodged the a bullet.

As a working man, a married man, shitting where you eat is always a bad idea. It never ends well. No amount of hot sex will make things better if such an affair goes tits up (and usually the spigot of sex from both wife and affair tends to dry up during such a time).

Just because it looks like HR culture is not there doesn’t mean it truly isn’t.

The problem with dodging bullets is that you never see the damage you missed, only the benefits you missed out on, unless you convenient watch someone else take that bullet soon after. One small benefit of Facebook I guess.

Keep it light-hearted as always and file this one away as trouble avoided.

G

[NickDunne]

(10-23-2018 01:38 PM)Noir Wrote:  

Notice how she is being dynamic and there are no rigid rules, it's all circumstantial. This is the domain the woman operates in.
Notice how you are being static and are abiding by some sort of code, regardless of circumstance.

Notice how she realizes you're not picking up on the bait (or choosing not to) and is more direct - 'be more dominant', she is leading.
Notice how you are looking back at your rulebook

This is also a decent example of why women are more socially savvy and can read between the lines. Developed in response to living in a 'dynamic' social environment.

Meanwhile, you filed all your future interactions with this girl under 'unlikely to fuck' and when these cues came up, you didn't (or rather chose not to) act upon them.

I was really hoping you gave a little smirk or wink after your 'I thought we were buddies' line until I remembered you worked together.

edit: lol I see the poll option of 'imagine everything' - assuming you mean 'imagine everything that will fuck out if I pursue this' instead of a Samsung sounding slogan

Great insights!

There was definitely a smirk... hahaha. Did not want to cut her down coldly.

Imagined means simple did I overthink a simple situation vs. if she was really into action.

[RatInTheWoods]

You could have banged her as per Noir excellent explanation.

But the grief and awkwardness after would not be worth the few seconds of squirting.

[Beirut]

There are many possible outcomes:

1- you go for it and turns out she was just playing for validation and she retracts
2- you bang and all is well after
3- you bang but it leads to trouble after. Suppose she breaks up with her man in the future. Youre the guy whos been around her years and she slept with. Could try to fuck up your marriage.