[Foolsgo1d]

@ Samseau. Japanese and Germans are a very different breed to the siesta states.

[Dusty]

Mexico doesn’t have any autos ( the thought of a Mexican car is comical), yet there are 19 auto manufacturing plants in Mexico making ice peoples cars.

I’d say “free trade” is pretty beneficial to Mexico.

[Luvianka]

(07-06-2018 02:20 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 03:07 AM)Batka Wrote:  

Mexico has some very pressing issues to solve and Obrador must waste no time. Obviously there is the friction between Mexico and its more powerful northern neighbour, Trump's US. Many on here are saying "build the wall", but will that stop the mass migration northwards? I'm afraid it won't as desperate people will resort to desperate measures in order to better their lives to escape their "shitholes". Why are they shitholes? Well in order to get to the crux of the issue, we must look at underlying causes. Just pick up a history book to find out why. The US has for decades, directly interfered both overt and covert not to mention plunder many Latin American countries in order to keep them weak and onside. Any ruler who bucked the neo-liberal, neo-imperial trend - Allende, Arbenz, Ortega, Castro, Chavez, Sandino etc. either got taken out by a coup, assassinated or got sanctions slapped on them.

If someone starts their self-improvement journey by blaming others, then they will never improve. The idea that the US is to blame for South America's woes is laughable. The countries are fucked up because the people are fucked up. It is that simple. The USA had plenty of obstacles in its way - they overcame them and pulled itself up by its own bootstraps.

If you want to know who to blame for your problems, look in the mirror.

Quote:

Another factor that led to the mass influx was NAFTA. NAFTA, the brainchild of war criminal Bill Clinton utterly destroyed many Central American economies, Mexico included. Cheap US products flooded the markets forcing many Mexicans and others from the central American states to abandon their livelihoods, especially many peasant farmers and head north in search of work. These factors have been driving the mass migration north. The same can be said with North Africa and Europe, except the wars of aggression against Libya, Syria and Iraq which have destabalised the Middle East.

Mexico has benefited tremendously from NAFTA. Their trade balance with the USA is massive, over 100 billion a year. You're telling me NAFTA is to blame? I have to seriously question your ability to judge things if you believe this.

Quote:

If we are to halt this mass movement of people, we need to tackle the underlying problems and that means a complete sea change of policy and group-think north of the Rio Grande. Spending billions on a wall won't hold back those who are desperate to make a better life. Scrapping NAFTA will be a route in the right direction. Obrador's election is a good start to making that happen and making Mexico great again in order to stem the human tide. I wish him the best of luck. He's gonna need it, a lot of it.

Obrador is the next Hugo Chavez of Mexico. Take it to the bank. He's going to return Mexico to days of violence not seen since the Aztecs.

The only way to fix Mexico, or any other Latin American dump, is by brute force. The USA would need to militarily invade, and colonize the lands, as the Spanish once did. The current crop of people running the countries have no idea what they are doing. They need to be ruled from above for at least 2 generations before the people there can unfuck themselves.

Now why would the people of the USA want to do such an ungrateful act? Would the Mexicans, or any other South American people, appreciate such an act? Of course not. They think they know it all.

So, fuck 'em. Build the wall and wait until they are begging for salvation. I want to see massive refugee cities spring up next to the American wall, where American citizens can throw food down to the masses as acts of good charity. Once the population of these camps become around 10-20 million we can organize an army with them and conquer Mexico with their own refugees. Afterwards we can rule Mexico as a puppet state until it's functional like Germany or Japan.

That's how American needs to handle the South American morons who can't run a country to save their lives. They literally cannot do it, which is why the violence and starvation is so bad.

Easy, Samseau, cool it down.

[Easy_C]

Realistically though the US actually DOES have a lot to do with what’s happening. It’s well known that these deep state assholes have been butt buddies with Central American drug lords going back at least to the 80s.

And....funny how all the same organizations that benefit from it like the CIA(Cocaine Import Agency) just “coincidentally” are the ones whose stooges are out screaming bloody murder about how “fascist” any attempt at maintaining a border is.

[Parras]

(07-06-2018 02:56 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

Mexico doesn’t have any autos ( the thought of a Mexican car is comical), yet there are 19 auto manufacturing plants in Mexico making ice peoples cars.

I’d say “free trade” is pretty beneficial to Mexico.

You are wrong

The inferno:




The Mastretta MXT:




A simple google search will do.

[Samseau]

(07-06-2018 02:42 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

@ Samseau. Japanese and Germans are a very different breed to the siesta states.

I did not say they could become the next Germany or Japan, I said functional like Germany and Japan were occupied until they reached that point.

Functional by Mexican standards: low violence, low crime, people living happy lives, a half-decent economy. Honestly it shouldn't be difficult for anyone to achieve, but, sadly, people are broken.

[topdog]

https://www.forbes.com.mx/peso-perfila-m...ete-anios/

The peso is en route to have its best week in seven years.

[LeeEnfield303]

I stopped reading at, "Leftist Conservative."

[Batka]

(07-06-2018 02:20 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 03:07 AM)Batka Wrote:  

Mexico has some very pressing issues to solve and Obrador must waste no time. Obviously there is the friction between Mexico and its more powerful northern neighbour, Trump's US. Many on here are saying "build the wall", but will that stop the mass migration northwards? I'm afraid it won't as desperate people will resort to desperate measures in order to better their lives to escape their "shitholes". Why are they shitholes? Well in order to get to the crux of the issue, we must look at underlying causes. Just pick up a history book to find out why. The US has for decades, directly interfered both overt and covert not to mention plunder many Latin American countries in order to keep them weak and onside. Any ruler who bucked the neo-liberal, neo-imperial trend - Allende, Arbenz, Ortega, Castro, Chavez, Sandino etc. either got taken out by a coup, assassinated or got sanctions slapped on them.

If someone starts their self-improvement journey by blaming others, then they will never improve. The idea that the US is to blame for South America's woes is laughable. The countries are fucked up because the people are fucked up. It is that simple. The USA had plenty of obstacles in its way - they overcame them and pulled itself up by its own bootstraps.

If you want to know who to blame for your problems, look in the mirror.

Quote:

Another factor that led to the mass influx was NAFTA. NAFTA, the brainchild of war criminal Bill Clinton utterly destroyed many Central American economies, Mexico included. Cheap US products flooded the markets forcing many Mexicans and others from the central American states to abandon their livelihoods, especially many peasant farmers and head north in search of work. These factors have been driving the mass migration north. The same can be said with North Africa and Europe, except the wars of aggression against Libya, Syria and Iraq which have destabalised the Middle East.

Mexico has benefited tremendously from NAFTA. Their trade balance with the USA is massive, over 100 billion a year. You're telling me NAFTA is to blame? I have to seriously question your ability to judge things if you believe this.

Quote:

If we are to halt this mass movement of people, we need to tackle the underlying problems and that means a complete sea change of policy and group-think north of the Rio Grande. Spending billions on a wall won't hold back those who are desperate to make a better life. Scrapping NAFTA will be a route in the right direction. Obrador's election is a good start to making that happen and making Mexico great again in order to stem the human tide. I wish him the best of luck. He's gonna need it, a lot of it.

Obrador is the next Hugo Chavez of Mexico. Take it to the bank. He's going to return Mexico to days of violence not seen since the Aztecs.

The only way to fix Mexico, or any other Latin American dump, is by brute force. The USA would need to militarily invade, and colonize the lands, as the Spanish once did. The current crop of people running the countries have no idea what they are doing. They need to be ruled from above for at least 2 generations before the people there can unfuck themselves.

Now why would the people of the USA want to do such an ungrateful act? Would the Mexicans, or any other South American people, appreciate such an act? Of course not. They think they know it all.

So, fuck 'em. Build the wall and wait until they are begging for salvation. I want to see massive refugee cities spring up next to the American wall, where American citizens can throw food down to the masses as acts of good charity. Once the population of these camps become around 10-20 million we can organize an army with them and conquer Mexico with their own refugees. Afterwards we can rule Mexico as a puppet state until it's functional like Germany or Japan.

That's how American needs to handle the South American morons who can't run a country to save their lives. They literally cannot do it, which is why the violence and starvation is so bad.

Invade, colonize, the people are fucked, puppet state.....

The 1850s called. They want their manifest destiny back.

[Foolsgo1d]

(07-06-2018 07:10 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-06-2018 02:42 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  

@ Samseau. Japanese and Germans are a very different breed to the siesta states.

I did not say they could become the next Germany or Japan, I said functional like Germany and Japan were occupied until they reached that point.

Functional by Mexican standards: low violence, low crime, people living happy lives, a half-decent economy. Honestly it shouldn't be difficult for anyone to achieve, but, sadly, people are broken.

But Germany and Japan were never like that. In Japan it was feudal and tribal until the modern military crushed them (with US support) and in Germany it was merely an Empire fighting other empires like usual in Europe for well over a thousand years.

Mexico and by extension South America has history steeped in death, corruption, war and internal struggles. The 20th Century was not kind to them.

If the US is to change that country it needs to do more than occupy it and we're talking new age Mexican citizens here, free of their bonds to their history and nature.

I doubt the world would stomach any of that nor would the US tax payer.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

The people of Mexico ain't that bad:

This town is independent and autonomous since 2010. A town militia kicked out the cops, the criminal gang and the politicians. Crime is extremely low and the local militia are recruited from men in the community who are accountable to the people. It's funny that Mexico lets them stay independent - they are probably afraid of the PR disaster if they came with the army.

Of course - it's hard to transport this to the entire country.

And when I said that NAFTA hurt Mexico too I did not mean the GDP. Mexico profited greatly from the treason of American politicians, but I would say that it hurt the 80%. How many Mexicans had moved since the 1990s to the US?
Hasn't Acapulco been still a wonderful holiday resort in 1990?
What has happened that created such a destructive force in Mexico?

NAFTA brought far more money to the ruling elite, the globalist elite and some factory workers as well as educated classes. But it cost the rural population and small businesses heavily. One side of trade unions is that you cannot open your country to a much bigger more efficient one. That is why China does not have a trade union with the US - it has advantageous trade deals and opens only what it wants.

Thus Mexico was in a strange situation of rising GDP while the lower 50% got poorer being wiped out by the bigger US market (that includes agricultural imports).

I doubt that the problems will be solved. The US will rather look more like a better working Mexico than the reverse.

[Bluto]

(07-01-2018 09:43 PM)Luvianka Wrote:  

(07-01-2018 09:37 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

If this guy tries crazy shit, this could mean Trump can use the Army to build the wall.

Easy, man. Cool it down.

Well he can probably militarize it at least, like back in the days of the Wilson Administration with General Pershing.

[Going strong]

(07-07-2018 05:48 AM)Batka Wrote:  

Invade, colonize, the people are fucked, puppet state.....

The 1850s called. They want their manifest destiny back.

Referring to "Nicaragua in 1850", liberally using the words "puppet" and "invade". This is so... Traktor-like :

thread-55800...pid1424737

By the way, why do you (apparently) think that the largely-forgotten Clayton–Bulwer Treaty is still relevant?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton%E2...wer_Treaty
Why would you find so much relevance in this old turmoil from 1850 in Nicaragua, I'm curious?

[Parras]

I actually like some of AMLO's ideas.

Vowing to getting rid of corruption is a big one. Who doesn't want to get rid of corruption?

-He vows to penalize banks for a laundering cartel money and putting those responsible in jail.

-Cut corporate welfare. No more public money going to rich corporations and the Mexican elite.

-No bankers or people from banks in charge of the economy or in top cabinet positions. Vows to put professionals who got their education in Mexico instead of people who get their education from Harvard, Yale, etc... Mostly Mexican educated professionals in his cabinet.

-Millionaire pensions will be abolished for former presidents who don't need them.

-Cut the presidential salary in half.

-Cancel the purchase of 8 helicopters the Mexican navy ordered from the U.S. during the previous administration that would have cost over 2 billion dollars that could be used in the country.

-Sell the presidential airplane.

-Convince Trump to focus more on ending the drug war that has plagued Mexico for so long and think of better ways for improving the lives of Mexicans so they won't need to go to the U.S. in search of better economic opportunities.


^^^^ This is all great stuff. I hope AMLO succeed's in his vision and I hope for Mexico and my countrymen that they can have a better future.

[Dusty]

Wait, Trump and the US are responsible for making the lives of Mexicans better? Sorry, that’s the responsibility of your own people. If you don’t do that we can seal you off with a big beautiful wall. Regardless, we need to deport the 11 million plus Mexicans illegally in the USA.

[BlueResolute]

(07-06-2018 06:05 PM)Parras Wrote:  

(07-06-2018 02:56 PM)Dusty Wrote:  

Mexico doesn’t have any autos ( the thought of a Mexican car is comical), yet there are 19 auto manufacturing plants in Mexico making ice peoples cars.

I’d say “free trade” is pretty beneficial to Mexico.

You are wrong

The inferno:

Wtf am I looking at. It looks like a 12 year old's draw up of a dream car. All it's missing are the giant exhaust pipes on the back and monster teeth designed into the grill.

[Leonard D Neubache]

delete

[Kona]

(07-14-2018 04:42 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

delete

Look at Leonard D. Nuebache coming back strong!!!!!!

You keep it up.

Aloha!

[Fortis]

(07-07-2018 08:57 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  

The people of Mexico ain't that bad:

This town is independent and autonomous since 2010. A town militia kicked out the cops, the criminal gang and the politicians. Crime is extremely low and the local militia are recruited from men in the community who are accountable to the people. It's funny that Mexico lets them stay independent - they are probably afraid of the PR disaster if they came with the army.

Of course - it's hard to transport this to the entire country.

Awesome video.

At the bolded: Not exactly. I think there needs to be a certain "attitude" amongst the men. Namely an attitude of "we're not taking any shit when it comes to things that affect our families."

Now I'm not saying you could kick the politicians and police out of every town or city, but there are definitely ways that you can go about making it clear that certain behaviors are not tolerated.

There was a famous case in my area where a known pedophile just straight up disappeared. It was not really investigated and no one gave a shit.

It's pretty much common knowledge that he may have been killed because he talked to the wrong kids.

Of course, this was like 30 years ago and that was a very different America compared to this limp-wristed, weak, leftist place that passes for USA now, but I do think having certain a conservative, family-values oriented core goes a long way to making your neighborhood a good place to live.

Of course, when you get people atomized and isolated it's impossible to do that.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

< This kind of direct accountability works fine if you are a country like Switzerland. The Swiss union developed out of similar movements like in the Mexican town. All the small different tribes, valleys and villages fought against each other often in the past. They only unified out of necessity to fight against bigger neighbors and they did it in a democratic way that let each little part of the country control wide aspects of their security, economy, policing. Plus they created an internal standing army and almost all men under 40 had a machine gun at home - plus military training. If a Cartel developed in Switzerland or a corrupt Swiss government, then it would take one order, enough upset Swiss men - and you would have almost the entire male population up in arms.

But that has developed over centuries and as I said - it worked partly because of the small size of the country. This would not have succeeded in Russia or Mexico.

And proven pedophiles disappeared in all sane societies - still do to this day. Only in the current ones like Britain do they get police protection, new identities and the cops see nothing wrong with 3 drunk 12 year old girls being surrounded by multiple 30-45 year old Muslims. Britain's finest shall not be called racist.

[eL-JJ]

Letter from AMLO to Trump

Compares himself to Trump at the end.

Original spanish version

Trump told AMLO years ago that he would be president of Mexico:

Today

[url=https://twitter.com/diazbriseno/status/1021530181717188610%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc%255Etfw%257Ctwcamp%255Etweetembed%257Ctwterm%255E1021530%E2%80%8B181717188610%26ref_url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.sinembargo.mx%252F23-07-2018%252F3446738][/url]

From Hollywood anon "Renegade"


Let's wait and see.

[infowarrior1]

(07-01-2018 11:14 PM)rpg Wrote:  

When the Peso crashes hard it is going to be a disaster of epic proportions. The elites in Mexico are already postioned to eject if needed. The middle class will be wrecked. The poor will always be poor. The cartels will probably remove him if he starts messing with their shit. The cartels are so powerful in Mexico we have no frame of reference in the US to compare it to.

Quote:

Narco-cities (Narco-ciudades)
Narcos rule entire regions of Mexico and certainly cities, slums, favelas and barrios elsewhere. These criminal enclaves are essentially ‘criminal cities.’ It is important to note that ‘narco-cities’ are not solely products of hyperviolence. As mentioned earlier, violence plays a role and is a sign of ferality and a lack of state solvency, but other factors corruption, co-option of government officials, dominance of commerce and trade also figure into narco dominance.
In Mexico it has been estimated that up to 71.5% of municipios (cities and towns) have been captured or are under control of narcos. This figure has been steadily rising during Mexico’s drug war as seen here: in 2001 the number of municipios under narco control was assessed at 34%; in 2006 that rose to 53%; in 2010 it was estimated at 73%, then dropping to 71.5% in 2011.[xvii] The result is a neo-feudal situation where stratified governance exists: the gangs and cartels rule some functions while the state rules others. Complicating the situation is the rise of autodefensas (self defense groups or vigilantes) sponsored by businessmen, farmers, or rival cartels. Autodefensas are estimated to operate in at least 68 municipios in 13 Mexican states.[xviii] Currently Michoacán, including an embattled Apatzingan, is site to multipronged conflict among Los Cabelleros Templarios, rival groups of autodefensas, the Cártel de Jalisco Nueva Generación, and the state.[xix]
The rise of the narco-state (‘narco estado’) is feared by many observers of the drug cartel war and its violence. For example in Narco Estado, photographer Teun Voeten looks at the violence and their state transforming potential (Voeten, 2012). For Voeten the narco-state entails “the erosion of civil society and its gradual takeover by organized crime, the nascency of a new class of excluded and disposable people that choose a criminal career that ends in certain death, the devaluation of human life. All these elements present a nightmarish scenario of how our future could look like. The worst we can do is to close our eyes and ignore these developments.”[xx] The narco estado is exemplified for Voeten by the images of Ciudad Juárez and Culiacán, narco-cities where drug barons, their serfs—the sicarios—and their victims exemplify a new life a narcocultura (Sullivan, 2012b) where violence and the illicit economy punctuated by fear and terror reign.

http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/nar...and-beyond


Territory in Mexico(and by extension El Salvador and Brazil) has effectively been lost to proto-state entities of criminals powerful enough to seize control of such areas. Redrawing the map like in the Syrian Civil War would help to clarify how power really works.

[thebassist]

(07-07-2018 08:57 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  

And when I said that NAFTA hurt Mexico too I did not mean the GDP. Mexico profited greatly from the treason of American politicians, but I would say that it hurt the 80%. How many Mexicans had moved since the 1990s to the US?
Hasn't Acapulco been still a wonderful holiday resort in 1990?
What has happened that created such a destructive force in Mexico?

NAFTA brought far more money to the ruling elite, the globalist elite and some factory workers as well as educated classes. But it cost the rural population and small businesses heavily. One side of trade unions is that you cannot open your country to a much bigger more efficient one. That is why China does not have a trade union with the US - it has advantageous trade deals and opens only what it wants.

Thus Mexico was in a strange situation of rising GDP while the lower 50% got poorer being wiped out by the bigger US market (that includes agricultural imports).

I doubt that the problems will be solved. The US will rather look more like a better working Mexico than the reverse.

Spot on.

I'd say the Mexican obesity and health crisis is also very likely a direct result of cheap, American soft drinks and unhealthy trash flooding the country through Nafta, which was no doubt the result of lobbying by big American business cartels. The huge and massively subsidized american corn industry would have no doubt invested significant amounts of money into their lobbying efforts in order to obtain unrestricted access to another market to addict to and poison with high-fructose corn syrup.

I remember a Mexican buddy of mine describing how for some poor families, their food supplies for the week would be essentially a stack of tortillas, beans, and a number of large bottles of coke, that's it. Truly disgusting and sad.

[thoughtgypsy]

I don't really follow Mexican politics, so I'm going to avoid speaking about the president directly and focus on the other issues brought up. It's nice that he's anti-corruption and he has popular support, but every politician says those kind of things to get elected, so let's wait and see what happens.

I think a lot of guys are fighting over whether Mexicans are personally responsible for the state of their country. I used to believe that people are responsible for their governments, but I'm not so sure anymore.

If you were born in Mexico, what would you do to change the political environment?

If you were a journalist who tried to uncover corruption, likely you'd be killed by an assassin who works for the guy you're blowing the whistle on. If you're trying to defend yourself against and help to root out the criminal cartels who prey on your community, you and your family become prime targets for kidnapping, torture, and death. If you're a politician who tries to break up the corrupt power structures, you'd also be a prime target for assassination.

Seriously, I doubt if you were to take your average American and transplant him in Mexico that they would be able to change much. The average joe likely has little or no political power. Real power is wielded by top corporate, military, and press executives.

Credit where it's due, many Mexicans are taking things into their own hands and forming their own militias in order to defend against the terrorism and corruption that results from drug cartels: http://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-amer...story.html

When was the last time you heard of Americans willing to fight the system to protect their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? The only one I can recall in recent memory is the 2014 Bundy standoff.

Also, it's not even a question whether the US is responsible for supporting drug cartels in Mexico. El Universal published court documents that included testimony from DEA officials and the justice department stating that the US supported the Sinaloa Cartel in Mexico for over a decade. The widely publicized gun running (fast and furious) also shows involvement.
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-g...tel-2014-1

Some forces in the US political establishment want to keep the border open and to keep South and Central America unstable for less than humanitarian reasons. Open, unstable borders make human trafficking, gun running, and drug trafficking easier.

The "war on drugs" is a farce; it's simply a war on the competition. There has been no sincere effort to root out drug production and demand, but rather to drive it underground where price and supply can be controlled, and profits can be taken off the books. Look at the chain of events in Afghanistan and the US: Afghanistan banning poppy production, US invasion, poppy seed production rising exponentially, opiate epidemic in the US.

In many cases, people aren't responsible for the political and social environment they find themselves in. A few years ago, Libya used to be a prosperous country with modern irrigation and plans for a gold backed currency. Now it's a chaotic hellhole of political instability and rampant violence.

Anyway, my point is not to turn this into a pissing match, but rather this. The vast majority of people are only interested in a simple life where they can provide a safe and comfortable environment to raise a family. It's easy to overestimate what actual power the common man has to change their environment. Most people aren't going to risk death and the death of their entire family unless they've exhausted literally every other option, including complacency.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

(07-24-2018 04:12 AM)thebassist Wrote:  

I'd say the Mexican obesity and health crisis is also very likely a direct result of cheap, American soft drinks and unhealthy trash flooding the country through Nafta, which was no doubt the result of lobbying by big American business cartels. The huge and massively subsidized american corn industry would have no doubt invested significant amounts of money into their lobbying efforts in order to obtain unrestricted access to another market to addict to and poison with high-fructose corn syrup.

I remember a Mexican buddy of mine describing how for some poor families, their food supplies for the week would be essentially a stack of tortillas, beans, and a number of large bottles of coke, that's it. Truly disgusting and sad.

A few years ago, there was a nice and very educational article in #fakenews Time magazine where someone took photos of a typical country's family with their groceries for a week. This was the Mexican family:

   

It's exactly like you said - tons of fresh local produce, nicely balanced... yet ruined by a mountain of Coca Cola in the background.